a moral and legal dilemma??

View previous topic View next topic Go down

a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:08 pm

In a hypothetical scenario...

an under age girl has used fake ID to get in to a club hich has door men, she has already purchased drinks and is in the club... she is chatted up and picked up, taken home and made love too..

It turns out the girl in question is actually under age ...

How much of the blame lies with the man who took her home...

In your opinion....


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:37 am

this is not a trick question or a pop at anyone...

it came up in discussion with a group of friends and it was very interesting..

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by eddie on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:02 am

Historically, hypothetical questions don't, won't and can't get answered on here.

However I will say this: an underage girl can only look so old - say 21 the oldest? - so unless the guy is under 35 (ish) then he's creepy anyway.

_________________
Problems are the price of progress. Don't bring me anything but trouble.
Good news weakens me.

~ Charles F. Kettering
avatar
eddie
king of beards. Keeper of the Whip. head cook and bottle washer. Senior mushroom muncher

Posts : 32189
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 47
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:05 am

eddie wrote:Historically, hypothetical questions don't, won't and can't get answered on here.

However I will say this: an underage girl can only look so old - say 21 the oldest? - so unless the guy is under 35 (ish) then he's creepy anyway.

I don't think a 35 year old man is creepy if he is with a 21 year old , old men marrying young girls aged 4 is though

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:08 am

eddie wrote:Historically, hypothetical questions don't, won't and can't get answered on here.

However I will say this: an underage girl can only look so old - say 21 the oldest? - so unless the guy is under 35 (ish) then he's creepy anyway.

i am looking for opinion not a definitive answer to be honest, the debate went round and round for sometime with my friends..

I felt that ultimately the man who took her home had a degree of blame but if the girl got herself past the bouncers who are supposed to be trained for checking the ID, the bar staff ho served the girl should have questioned her and the man was in an environment where anyone under drinking age shouldn't be there, then short of asking for her passport there wasn't much more he could do...

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:12 am

My opinion is that the under aged girl is to blame, she knew she wasn't old enough to go in the night club, she also deceived the owners by trying to make herself look older and she definitley deceived the man who bought her drinks all night and tooke her home and had sex with her , she is deceitful all the way .

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by eddie on Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:14 am

Like I said, most men know the rough age of a girl.
Underage people are children; children cannot make sensible or safe decisions.
The ultimate blame lies with all the adults who either failed her (doormen) or pervertly fucked her.

I repeat, a girl can only look "so old"....

_________________
Problems are the price of progress. Don't bring me anything but trouble.
Good news weakens me.

~ Charles F. Kettering
avatar
eddie
king of beards. Keeper of the Whip. head cook and bottle washer. Senior mushroom muncher

Posts : 32189
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 47
Location : England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:37 am

eddie wrote:Like I said, most men know the rough age of a girl.
Underage people are children; children cannot make sensible or safe decisions.
The ultimate blame lies with all the adults who either failed her (doormen) or pervertly fucked her.

I repeat, a girl can only look "so old"....

the man in question could be 20 years old himself, once girls are all dressed up and made up ages can get difficult..

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:48 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:In a hypothetical scenario...

an under age girl has used fake ID to get in to a club hich has door men, she has already purchased drinks and is in the club... she is chatted up and picked up, taken home and made love too..

It turns out the girl in question is actually under age ...

How much of the blame lies with the man who took her home...

In your opinion....


If it's ID with a photo on it, and it's not a photo of her, they should pay more attention.

Other than that, it's her own fault, but was this hypothetical girl actually complaining? Laughing

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29337
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:03 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:In a hypothetical scenario...

an under age girl has used fake ID to get in to a club hich has door men, she has already purchased drinks and is in the club... she is chatted up and picked up, taken home and made love too..

It turns out the girl in question is actually under age ...

How much of the blame lies with the man who took her home...

In your opinion....


If it's ID with a photo on it, and it's not a photo of her, they should pay more attention.

Other than that, it's her own fault, but was this hypothetical girl actually complaining? Laughing

it was taken from the point of view the law had been made aware of the case and e were trying to proportion blame...

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:05 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

If it's ID with a photo on it, and it's not a photo of her, they should pay more attention.

Other than that, it's her own fault, but was this hypothetical girl actually complaining? Laughing

it was taken from the point of view the law had been made aware of the case and e were trying to proportion blame...

Well if she pretended to be over a certain age - 18 I presume - it's her fault.

Neither of them should be going home with each other of course - they only just met. Razz

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29337
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:06 am

the answer would be to microchip every baby girl at birth

or tatoo a bar code on their neck

then you could just use a scanner

a bit like a best before date but would actually be a "do not unwrap before" date....

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:08 am

The answer is to prosecute the underage girl as well as the bloke.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29337
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:09 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

it was taken from the point of view the law had been made aware of the case and e were trying to proportion blame...

Well if she pretended to be over a certain age - 18 I presume - it's her fault.

Neither of them should be going home with each other of course - they only just met. Razz

i agree that she is largely to blame, along with the doormen and bar staff...

very wise too, best to get to know someone first...

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:15 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well if she pretended to be over a certain age - 18 I presume - it's her fault.

Neither of them should be going home with each other of course - they only just met. Razz

i agree that she is largely to blame, along with the doormen and bar staff...

very wise too, best to get to know someone first...

Is it not against the law to impersonate someone else for illegal purposes? She used someone else's ID so she could get into the club and drink booze.

Most pubs and clubs are very hot on checking someone's age these days because of the law. If someone looks under 25, they are advised to check in a lot of places, including shops.

The bar staff are not to blame if they assumed that anyone who was let in was over 18.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29337
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:26 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

i agree that she is largely to blame, along with the doormen and bar staff...

very wise too, best to get to know someone first...

Is it not against the law to impersonate someone else for illegal purposes? She used someone else's ID so she could get into the club and drink booze.

Most pubs and clubs are very hot on checking someone's age these days because of the law. If someone looks under 25, they are advised to check in a lot of places, including shops.

The bar staff are not to blame if they assumed that anyone who was let in was over 18.

you seem to have come to similar conclusions to me, i think the doormen should have spotted the bad ID i do think the bar staff have a responsibility though they should keep an eye on ho they serve, the girl is at fault for being where she simply shouldn't be and the male in question is like a victim of the whole situation.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:38 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Is it not against the law to impersonate someone else for illegal purposes? She used someone else's ID so she could get into the club and drink booze.

Most pubs and clubs are very hot on checking someone's age these days because of the law. If someone looks under 25, they are advised to check in a lot of places, including shops.

The bar staff are not to blame if they assumed that anyone who was let in was over 18.

you seem to have come to similar conclusions to me, i think the doormen should have spotted the bad ID i do think the bar staff have a responsibility though they should keep an eye on ho they serve, the girl is at fault for being where she simply shouldn't be and the male in question is like a victim of the whole situation.

If she presented herself as being over 16, and it was reasonable to think she was, I doubt he would be prosecuted, especially as she lied to get into the club.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29337
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:57 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

you seem to have come to similar conclusions to me, i think the doormen should have spotted the bad ID i do think the bar staff have a responsibility though they should keep an eye on ho they serve, the girl is at fault for being where she simply shouldn't be and the male in question is like a victim of the whole situation.

If she presented herself as being over 16, and it was reasonable to think she was, I doubt he would be prosecuted, especially as she lied to get into the club.

I agree let's face it if people trained to age and id check missed it how would an ordinary run of the mill guy know ho to tell..

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:01 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

If she presented herself as being over 16, and it was reasonable to think she was, I doubt he would be prosecuted, especially as she lied to get into the club.

I agree let's face it if people trained to age and id check missed it how would an ordinary run of the mill guy know ho to tell..

Also, if there was a photo on the ID, it's possible for one girl to look much like another.

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29337
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

I agree let's face it if people trained to age and id check missed it how would an ordinary run of the mill guy know ho to tell..

Also, if there was a photo on the ID, it's possible for one girl to look much like another.

very much so if made up, the picture or details could easily be changed, it is a minefield ..

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:08 pm

eddie wrote:Historically, hypothetical questions don't, won't and can't get answered on here.

However I will say this: an underage girl can only look so old - say 21 the oldest? - so unless the guy is under 35 (ish) then he's creepy anyway.

Isn't she a bit creepy as well then?

I don't think the age of the man is particularly relevant if the girl was willing and he thought the girl was over the age of consent. .

_________________

"It ain't over 'til it's over"
avatar
Raggamuffin

Posts : 29337
Join date : 2014-02-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: a moral and legal dilemma??

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:09 pm

darknessss wrote:the answer would be to microchip every baby girl at birth

or tatoo a bar code on their neck

then you could just use a scanner

a bit like a best before date but would actually be a "do not unwrap before" date....

MY daughters would be over 30 now had they lived but they wouldn't have got to a night club HF was very strict with the boys , i know some kids are rebellious but i thank God they listened and didn't go to night clubs until they were the right age .

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum