Is God a man or a woman?

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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:17 am

The Bible is full of references to a female God, and long before the Church of England there were traditions which explored feminine divinity.
I don’t know if you noticed, but Oxford University finally caught up with Cambridge by appointing a woman to be its next vice-chancellor (and, indeed, with Brunel and countless other universities where there are already women at the top). One might say the overhaul of expectations of masculinity and power is quite en vogue: the general election leaders’ debates were awash with brightly coloured shift dresses, Hillary is running for president, and even in the Church of England we have our first women bishops – three of them now. It’s expected that by the time we appoint the next Archbishop of Canterbury, there will be a woman on the shortlist. But all this rather pales into insignificance beside the hot topic of current debate in the Church of England: does God, the Almighty Creator of the Universe, have to be male?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11643931/Is-God-a-man-or-a-woman.html


As much as I am athiest it is still an interesting question.
More to the point, does it really matter, if a person believes?

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Post by Eilzel on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:59 am

I agree it is interesting. For me the idea a creator would have a gender is absurd. Of course my view is affected by my disbelief, but genders have evolved- it is massively unlikely a divine conciousness (or whatever god is), would be identifiable with an Earthly gender.

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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:06 am

Eilzel wrote:I agree it is interesting. For me the idea a creator would have a gender is absurd. Of course my view is affected by my disbelief, but genders have evolved- it is massively unlikely a divine conciousness (or whatever god is), would be identifiable with an Earthly gender.

Is the problem people of religious belief take the view of say in Christianity of being made in the same image?
Again the whole view around a deity being human like, is where I think the confusion comes from.

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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:42 pm

I get what you mean Zack, but sure the 'Christian' god procreates, after all 'this is my only begotten son Jesus'?

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Post by Eilzel on Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:09 pm

So Zack, is the Koran wrong to refer to Allah as he?

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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:12 pm

Eilzel wrote:So Zack, is the Koran wrong to refer to Allah as he?

Good question.

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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:46 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Shady wrote:

Good question.

Did you do an O Level or a GCSE in English?

No.But I did O levels in stabbing,drinking & fighting if that helps.

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Post by Eilzel on Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:49 pm

He cannot be used for either gender, the fact is has been used generally so as in your example is just a throwback to more sexist times.

But anyway not to get sidetracked- in Arabic translations, is Allah referred to as he or she or something else?

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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:14 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Shady wrote:

No.But I did O levels in stabbing,drinking & fighting if that helps.

I didn't know Hooliganism was an O Level.

I bet you were a natural scum bucket.

Absolutely.

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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:54 pm

The problem with all the views here is "if" a God exists, what "is" God for a start?

Muslims are also assuming to state no gender also, based on their own interpretation of their God. What they are arguing off is whether pronouns are gender neutral based on Arabic

Again it is an absurd notion for anyone to really answer this due to the various differences on how religions differ, but again the starting point here would be first of all describing what this deity actually is

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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:12 pm


Q is god a man or woman...
A does it matter??????????????????

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Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:43 pm

why would god be one of the minority of life forms with a binary gender?
there are more asexual lifeforms than binary


@Zack
gods do procreate tongue tongue tongue tongue

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Post by eddie on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:56 pm

darknessss wrote:
   Q   is god a man or woman...
   A   does it matter??????????????????

Nope. But for the record I believe God is a non-sex or maybe both sexes?
Perhaps God is just an energy?

I don't call My electricity a "He" or "She"....just "electricity".....
Seems to work okay.

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Post by Irn Bru on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:10 pm

Maybe God was an Ape.


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Post by eddie on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:36 pm

Irn Bru wrote:Maybe God was an Ape.


Could be. Some apes are far more intelligent than some humans!

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Post by Eilzel on Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:55 am

Ok Zack, since you avoided actually answering my question on a technicality, in Arabic texts what gender is Allah referred to, if any.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:13 am

If God was either gender, I'd like to know why it needed genitals ...

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Post by veya_victaous on Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:40 am

Irn Bru wrote:Maybe God was an Ape.


well that would be awkward considering that apes are very new and very rare and very specific Suspect Suspect Suspect

worms would be more likely, worms are probably the first sentient creature everything with a spine evolves from worms
but even worms evolve from algae

So if life is made in god's image it will look like algae (still up there as one of the most common forms of life)

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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:25 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Ok Zack, since you avoided actually answering my question on a technicality, in Arabic texts what gender is Allah referred to, if any.

A technicality? No, I just exposed your ignorance of linguistics.

The word "he" can be gender neutral in Arabic and as I've shown above, in English.

God in the Quran does not have a gender.

Based no your own interpretation of words, nothing more.
So the only ignorance is from yourself here, as "can" be does not mean it is. Maybe you need to look up English as well, because all you are doing is deciding based off your own opinion.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:27 pm

darknessss wrote:
   Q   is god a man or woman...
   A   does it matter??????????????????

Not really, but I suppose it does more so where religious myths form a very sexist view point.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:34 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:

Based no your own interpretation of words, nothing more.
So the only ignorance is from yourself here, as "can" be does not mean it is. Maybe you need to look up English as well, because all you are doing is deciding based off your own opinion.

Not my opinion. Go check with an English teacher.

Can also mean "it can" and by the exampke I gave above "still is" used. Lol!

It is your opinion as well as every other Muslim.
You are all deciding it is genderless, when it could very well be male based on the arabic word.
Hence you miss the point.
Not grasping this are you my boy.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:37 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:

It is your opinion as well as every other Muslim.
You are all deciding it is genderless, when it could very well be male based on the arabic word.
Hence you miss the point.
Not grasping this are you my boy.

Lol! As far as Islam is concerned, it is the educated opinion of "EVERY OTHER Muslim", as well as myself that matters.

But even in linguistic terms, I have demonstrated "he" can be gender neutral in both English and Arabic.

That was the point.

Is it? So there is no possibility of any of you being wrong then about your own God?
It does not matter what you can demonstrate, you are interpreting yourself as others have done.
You are also left with an even bigger problem as the Quran clearly has had vowels added later to words and we do not see the Quran in its original form. Only incomplete copies of the eailist Quran prove that the first Quran was devoid of vowels. We have spoken about this before.
Anyway generations of Muslims teaching the same thing does not mean they are right, it is thus your assumption Zack

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Post by veya_victaous on Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:35 pm

Zack does have a point hat English is rather lacking in gender neutral terms for people, this is also a problem for the transgender/etc community

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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:48 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Zack does have a point hat English is rather lacking in gender neutral terms for people, this is also a problem for the transgender/etc community

not really I think twat fits transgenders perfectly...

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Post by veya_victaous on Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:44 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Zack does have a point hat English is rather lacking in gender neutral terms for people, this is also a problem for the transgender/etc community

not really I think twat fits transgenders perfectly...

Are you transgender? Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:24 am

HF once again proving bigotry runs in his twisted veins.

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Post by veya_victaous on Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:30 am

Is God a man or a woman? H5ktlHL

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Post by veya_victaous on Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:00 am

Eilzel wrote:HF once again proving bigotry runs in his twisted veins.

Is God a man or a woman? K1auiO0

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:10 am

Eilzel wrote:HF once again proving bigotry runs in his twisted veins.


That is because HF is an unrighteous Christian and does not emulate Jesus and his teachings:

I found this very interesting:



April 30, 2013 – One of the common critiques leveled at present-day Christianity is that it’s a religion full of hypocritical people.
A new Barna Group study examines the degree to which this perception may be accurate. The study explores how well Christians seem to emulate the actions and attitudes of Jesus in their interactions with others.
The research project was directed by David Kinnaman, president of Barna Group, in conjunction with John Burke, author of Mud and the Masterpiece, a book exploring the attitudes and actions of Jesus in all of his encounters.
Assessing Christlikeness
In this nationwide study of self-identified Christians, the goal was to determine whether Christians have the actions and attitude of Jesus as they interact with others or if they are more akin to the beliefs and behaviors of Pharisees, the self-righteous sect of religious leaders described in the New Testament.
In order to assess this, Barna researchers presented a series of 20 agree-or-disagree statements. Five actions and five attitudes that seem to best encapsulate the actions and attitudes of Jesus Christ during his ministry on earth. The researchers did the same for the Pharisees (10 total statements, five reflecting behaviors and five examining attitudes).
Kinnaman, president of Barna Group, directed the study. He commented on the creation of a “Christ-like” scale: “Our intent is to create some new discussion about the intangible aspects of following and representing Jesus. Obviously, survey research, by itself, cannot fully measure someone’s ‘Christ-likeness’ or ‘Pharisee-likeness.’ But the study is meant to identify baseline qualities of Jesus, like empathy, love, and a desire to share faith with others—or the resistance to such ideals in the form of self-focused hypocrisy. The statements are based on the biblical record given in the Gospels and in the Epistles and our team worked closely with a leading pastor, John Burke, to develop the survey questions.”
Fleshing Out Christ-likeness
To flesh out the objectives of the study, a nationwide, representative sample of Christians was asked to respond to 20 statements. They could rate their agreement on a four-point scale. The 10 research statements used to examine Christ-likeness include the following:
Actions like Jesus:

  • I listen to others to learn their story before telling them about my faith.
  • In recent years, I have influenced multiple people to consider following Christ.
  • I regularly choose to have meals with people with very different faith or morals from me.
  • I try to discover the needs of non-Christians rather than waiting for them to come to me.
  • I am personally spending time with non-believers to help them follow Jesus.

Attitudes like Jesus:

  • I see God-given value in every person, regardless of their past or present condition.
  • I believe God is for everyone.
  • I see God working in people’s lives, even when they are not following him.
  • It is more important to help people know God is for them than to make sure they know they are sinners.
  • I feel compassion for people who are not following God and doing immoral things.

The 10 statements used to assess self-righteousness (like the Pharisees), included the following research items:
Self-Righteous Actions:

  • I tell others the most important thing in my life is following God’s rules.
  • I don’t talk about my sins or struggles. That’s between me and God.
  • I try to avoid spending time with people who are openly gay or lesbian.
  • I like to point out those who do not have the right theology or doctrine.
  • I prefer to serve people who attend my church rather than those outside the church.

Self-Righteous Attitudes:

  • I find it hard to be friends with people who seem to constantly do the wrong things.
  • It’s not my responsibility to help people who won’t help themselves.
  • I feel grateful to be a Christian when I see other people’s failures and flaws.
  • I believe we should stand against those who are opposed to Christian values.
  • People who follow God’s rules are better than those who do not.

How Christ-like are Christians?
Using these 20 questions as the basis of analysis, the researchers created an aggregate score for each individual and placed those results into one of four categories, or quadrants. (Further definition of the way these findings were analyzed is found later in this article.) The four categories include:
• Christ-like in action and attitude
• Christ-like in action, but not in attitude
• Christ-like in attitude, but not action
• Christ-like in neither
The findings reveal that most self-identified Christians in the U.S. are characterized by having the attitudes and actions researchers identified as Pharisaical. Just over half of the nation’s Christians—using the broadest definition of those who call themselves Christians—qualify for this category (51%). They tend to have attitudes and actions that are characterized by self-righteousness.
On the other end of the spectrum, 14% of today’s self-identified Christians—just one out of every seven Christians—seem to represent the actions and attitudes Barna researchers found to be consistent with those of Jesus.
In the middle are those who have some mix of action and attitude. About one-fifth of Christians are Christ-like in attitude, but often represent Pharisaical actions (21%). Another 14% of respondents tend to be defined as Christ-like in action, but seem to be motivated by self-righteous or hypocritical attitudes.
Is God a man or a woman? Bu_043013-infographic-1
Evangelicals and Others
Looking at America’s evangelical community—a group defined by Barna Group based on its theological beliefs and commitments, not self-identification with the terms “evangelical”—38% qualify as neither Christ-like in action nor attitude, according to their responses to these 20 questions. About one-quarter (23%) of evangelicals are characterized by having Jesus-like actions and attitudes, which was higher than the norm. About half were a mixture of Christ-like actions and Pharisaical attitudes (25%) or vice versa (15%).
Evangelicals are notably distinct from the norms in two ways: first, they were slightly more likely than other Christians to be Christ-like in action and attitude. However, among those in the “middle ground,” with so-called jumbled actions and attitudes, evangelicals are the only faith group more likely to be Pharisaical in attitude but Christ-like in action.
Kinnaman explains: “This research may help to explain how evangelicals are often targeted for claims of hypocrisy; the unique ‘sin’ of evangelicals tends to be doing the ‘right’ thing but with improper motives.”
The research shows that non-evangelical born again Christians and notional Christians were not much different from one another and not too distinct from national norms among all Christians.
Practicing Catholics were more likely than average to have Christ-like beliefs, but to demonstrate Pharisaical tendencies (i.e., they were 10 points above the average in terms of being Christ-like in attitude but Pharisaical in action).
Is God a man or a woman? Bu_043013-infographic-2
Who Exhibits Christ-likeness?
Despite their shortcomings in the study, evangelical Christians are the most likely Christian segment to be categorized as having both the Christ-like actions and attitudes (23%) identified by Barna researchers.
Interestingly, a similar proportion (22%) of Christians who have a more liberal political ideology claimed both Christ-like attitudes and actions. Non-mainline Protestants with a practicing faith are also more likely than average to be in this top category (19%), as are women (18%) and college graduates (18%).
Some population segments that are statistically less likely to have both Christ-like actions and attitudes are Elders, ages 67 or older (6%), Hispanics (6%), Christians with a conservative political ideology (8%), and men (9%).
What the Findings Mean
Kinnaman has spent more than five years presenting to Christian leaders about the perceptions of Christians, based upon his bestselling book unChristian. “In the research for that book project, our team discovered that 84% of young non-Christians say they know a Christian personally, yet only 15% say the lifestyles of those believers are noticeably different in a good way. This new study helps to explain that gap. It is not surprising that believers miss the mark in terms of representing Jesus, because transformation in Christ is so difficult and so rare. In particular, evangelicals seem to know the right way to behave, but they often admit to harboring sanctimonious motives.
“Many Christians are more concerned with what they call unrighteousness than they are with self-righteousness. It’s a lot easier to point fingers at how the culture is immoral than it is to confront Christians in their comfortable spiritual patterns. Perhaps pastors and teachers might take another look at how and what they communicate. Do people somehow get the message that the ‘right action’ is more important than the ‘right attitude’? Do church leaders have a tendency to focus more on tangible results, like actions, because those are easier to see and measure than attitudes?
“Finally, the question of authentic faith—is a particularly sore topic for many Millennials—who are often leaving church due in large part to the hypocrisy they experience. Again, no research is a perfect measure, but this study points out a sobering possibility: that the perception so many young people have of Christians contains more than a kernel of truth. Just as the New Testament writer Paul demonstrates in Galatians 2:11-16, the responsibility of the Christian community is to challenge hypocrisy just as boldly as other kinds of sin.“

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/faith-spirituality/611-christians-more-like-jesus-or-pharisees#.VW_cSVKkNnI

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:31 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Zack does have a point hat English is rather lacking in gender neutral terms for people, this is also a problem for the transgender/etc community

Didge doesn't have the guts to admit he's wrong.

I have managed to shut Elizel up though. What happened? Lol!

Dude the subject is boring, not the one of God being a man or woman, but the use of 'he'. I'm not really fussed either way, though don't think for a second I'm agreeing, especially not in the contemporary use of the word.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:36 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:

Is it? So there is no possibility of any of you being wrong then about your own God?
It does not matter what you can demonstrate, you are interpreting yourself as others have done.
You are also left with an even bigger problem as the Quran clearly has had vowels added later to words and we do not see the Quran in its original form. Only incomplete copies of the eailist Quran prove that the first Quran was devoid of vowels. We have spoken about this before.
Anyway generations of Muslims teaching the same thing does not mean they are right, it is thus your assumption Zack

You have provided no proof that the "he" in Quran is referring to a male. So your opinion is without any education.

Muslims and even Islamlic scholars are all in agreement. They are much more knowledgeable than you.

Even in English, "he" can be gender neutral.

Never claimed anything either way hence why your reply is so inane.
The poiint is it is you making the claim the deity is genderless off a word that can have multiple meanings.
So you and other Muslims, no matter if scholars are deciding what they think your deity is without really knowing.
At best you are all guessing and you are acting like a child over this.

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Post by stardesk on Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:18 pm

Going back up the page, to Wed, Fuzzy said: 'And there are no Arabic translations of the Quran. Lol!'

Wrong! The Koran was originally written in Arabic, and the following is what Arthur R. Arberry says, in his English translation:

"A classic of Arabic literature....it is held to be untranslatable..."

Though there are many translations in different languages, the original and somewhat poetic construction of the Koran is difficult to transcribe into another language.

OK mate? Something you've learned.

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Post by Guest on Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:56 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
Eilzel wrote:HF once again proving bigotry runs in his twisted veins.


That is because HF is an unrighteous Christian and does not emulate Jesus and his teachings:

I found this very interesting:



April 30, 2013 – One of the common critiques leveled at present-day Christianity is that it’s a religion full of hypocritical people.
A new Barna Group study examines the degree to which this perception may be accurate. The study explores how well Christians seem to emulate the actions and attitudes of Jesus in their interactions with others.
The research project was directed by David Kinnaman, president of Barna Group, in conjunction with John Burke, author of Mud and the Masterpiece, a book exploring the attitudes and actions of Jesus in all of his encounters.
Assessing Christlikeness
In this nationwide study of self-identified Christians, the goal was to determine whether Christians have the actions and attitude of Jesus as they interact with others or if they are more akin to the beliefs and behaviors of Pharisees, the self-righteous sect of religious leaders described in the New Testament.
In order to assess this, Barna researchers presented a series of 20 agree-or-disagree statements. Five actions and five attitudes that seem to best encapsulate the actions and attitudes of Jesus Christ during his ministry on earth. The researchers did the same for the Pharisees (10 total statements, five reflecting behaviors and five examining attitudes).
Kinnaman, president of Barna Group, directed the study. He commented on the creation of a “Christ-like” scale: “Our intent is to create some new discussion about the intangible aspects of following and representing Jesus. Obviously, survey research, by itself, cannot fully measure someone’s ‘Christ-likeness’ or ‘Pharisee-likeness.’ But the study is meant to identify baseline qualities of Jesus, like empathy, love, and a desire to share faith with others—or the resistance to such ideals in the form of self-focused hypocrisy. The statements are based on the biblical record given in the Gospels and in the Epistles and our team worked closely with a leading pastor, John Burke, to develop the survey questions.”
Fleshing Out Christ-likeness
To flesh out the objectives of the study, a nationwide, representative sample of Christians was asked to respond to 20 statements. They could rate their agreement on a four-point scale. The 10 research statements used to examine Christ-likeness include the following:
Actions like Jesus:

  • I listen to others to learn their story before telling them about my faith.
  • In recent years, I have influenced multiple people to consider following Christ.
  • I regularly choose to have meals with people with very different faith or morals from me.
  • I try to discover the needs of non-Christians rather than waiting for them to come to me.
  • I am personally spending time with non-believers to help them follow Jesus.

Attitudes like Jesus:

  • I see God-given value in every person, regardless of their past or present condition.
  • I believe God is for everyone.
  • I see God working in people’s lives, even when they are not following him.
  • It is more important to help people know God is for them than to make sure they know they are sinners.
  • I feel compassion for people who are not following God and doing immoral things.

The 10 statements used to assess self-righteousness (like the Pharisees), included the following research items:
Self-Righteous Actions:

  • I tell others the most important thing in my life is following God’s rules.
  • I don’t talk about my sins or struggles. That’s between me and God.
  • I try to avoid spending time with people who are openly gay or lesbian.
  • I like to point out those who do not have the right theology or doctrine.
  • I prefer to serve people who attend my church rather than those outside the church.

Self-Righteous Attitudes:

  • I find it hard to be friends with people who seem to constantly do the wrong things.
  • It’s not my responsibility to help people who won’t help themselves.
  • I feel grateful to be a Christian when I see other people’s failures and flaws.
  • I believe we should stand against those who are opposed to Christian values.
  • People who follow God’s rules are better than those who do not.

How Christ-like are Christians?
Using these 20 questions as the basis of analysis, the researchers created an aggregate score for each individual and placed those results into one of four categories, or quadrants. (Further definition of the way these findings were analyzed is found later in this article.) The four categories include:
• Christ-like in action and attitude
• Christ-like in action, but not in attitude
• Christ-like in attitude, but not action
• Christ-like in neither
The findings reveal that most self-identified Christians in the U.S. are characterized by having the attitudes and actions researchers identified as Pharisaical. Just over half of the nation’s Christians—using the broadest definition of those who call themselves Christians—qualify for this category (51%). They tend to have attitudes and actions that are characterized by self-righteousness.
On the other end of the spectrum, 14% of today’s self-identified Christians—just one out of every seven Christians—seem to represent the actions and attitudes Barna researchers found to be consistent with those of Jesus.
In the middle are those who have some mix of action and attitude. About one-fifth of Christians are Christ-like in attitude, but often represent Pharisaical actions (21%). Another 14% of respondents tend to be defined as Christ-like in action, but seem to be motivated by self-righteous or hypocritical attitudes.
Is God a man or a woman? Bu_043013-infographic-1
Evangelicals and Others
Looking at America’s evangelical community—a group defined by Barna Group based on its theological beliefs and commitments, not self-identification with the terms “evangelical”—38% qualify as neither Christ-like in action nor attitude, according to their responses to these 20 questions. About one-quarter (23%) of evangelicals are characterized by having Jesus-like actions and attitudes, which was higher than the norm. About half were a mixture of Christ-like actions and Pharisaical attitudes (25%) or vice versa (15%).
Evangelicals are notably distinct from the norms in two ways: first, they were slightly more likely than other Christians to be Christ-like in action and attitude. However, among those in the “middle ground,” with so-called jumbled actions and attitudes, evangelicals are the only faith group more likely to be Pharisaical in attitude but Christ-like in action.
Kinnaman explains: “This research may help to explain how evangelicals are often targeted for claims of hypocrisy; the unique ‘sin’ of evangelicals tends to be doing the ‘right’ thing but with improper motives.”
The research shows that non-evangelical born again Christians and notional Christians were not much different from one another and not too distinct from national norms among all Christians.
Practicing Catholics were more likely than average to have Christ-like beliefs, but to demonstrate Pharisaical tendencies (i.e., they were 10 points above the average in terms of being Christ-like in attitude but Pharisaical in action).
Is God a man or a woman? Bu_043013-infographic-2
Who Exhibits Christ-likeness?
Despite their shortcomings in the study, evangelical Christians are the most likely Christian segment to be categorized as having both the Christ-like actions and attitudes (23%) identified by Barna researchers.
Interestingly, a similar proportion (22%) of Christians who have a more liberal political ideology claimed both Christ-like attitudes and actions. Non-mainline Protestants with a practicing faith are also more likely than average to be in this top category (19%), as are women (18%) and college graduates (18%).
Some population segments that are statistically less likely to have both Christ-like actions and attitudes are Elders, ages 67 or older (6%), Hispanics (6%), Christians with a conservative political ideology (8%), and men (9%).
What the Findings Mean
Kinnaman has spent more than five years presenting to Christian leaders about the perceptions of Christians, based upon his bestselling book unChristian. “In the research for that book project, our team discovered that 84% of young non-Christians say they know a Christian personally, yet only 15% say the lifestyles of those believers are noticeably different in a good way. This new study helps to explain that gap. It is not surprising that believers miss the mark in terms of representing Jesus, because transformation in Christ is so difficult and so rare. In particular, evangelicals seem to know the right way to behave, but they often admit to harboring sanctimonious motives.
“Many Christians are more concerned with what they call unrighteousness than they are with self-righteousness. It’s a lot easier to point fingers at how the culture is immoral than it is to confront Christians in their comfortable spiritual patterns. Perhaps pastors and teachers might take another look at how and what they communicate. Do people somehow get the message that the ‘right action’ is more important than the ‘right attitude’? Do church leaders have a tendency to focus more on tangible results, like actions, because those are easier to see and measure than attitudes?
“Finally, the question of authentic faith—is a particularly sore topic for many Millennials—who are often leaving church due in large part to the hypocrisy they experience. Again, no research is a perfect measure, but this study points out a sobering possibility: that the perception so many young people have of Christians contains more than a kernel of truth. Just as the New Testament writer Paul demonstrates in Galatians 2:11-16, the responsibility of the Christian community is to challenge hypocrisy just as boldly as other kinds of sin.“

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/faith-spirituality/611-christians-more-like-jesus-or-pharisees#.VW_cSVKkNnI

lol and is this the Jesus of the bible or the one you have made up didge... laters....

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Post by Guest on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:58 pm

same with the bible some words in Hebrew are hard to translate so they choose the closest meaning , but i was told by a mulsimm today that the bible has been changed and the koran has not

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Post by Guest on Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:22 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
stardesk wrote:Going back up the page, to Wed, Fuzzy said: 'And there are no Arabic translations of the Quran. Lol!'

Wrong! The Koran was originally written in Arabic, and the following is what Arthur R. Arberry says, in his English translation:

"A classic of Arabic literature....it is held to be untranslatable..."

Though there are many translations in different languages, the original and somewhat poetic construction of the Koran is difficult to transcribe into another language.

OK mate? Something you've learned.

Lol! You say wrong and then directly contradict yourself it was "originally written in Arabic". D'OH!


Have you caught your mistake yet?


Or caught yours yet.
The writing system of Arabic was not fully formed in the time of Muhammad. That means the original verses written down were all without diacritical marks. No Quran Exists at the end of Muhammad life and we also know the earliest incomplete Quran 70 years later after his death, is missing also some diacritical marks. It is all a matter of subjective views as to then what some words mean.


Last edited by Belatucadros on Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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