White people are racist, but can't handle being called racist: the theory of white fragility

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Post by eddie on Sun May 17, 2015 10:16 am

First topic message reminder :

I'm not going to post the whole article here (I find that long c&ps are tedious)but I will take the parts, that to me, are relevant:



Robin DiAngelo was right out of college when she started thinking about it. She'd landed a job leading workshops on racism. And she met a man who became very angry, and pounded on a table. He said white people are the target of discrimination, white people can’t even find jobs anymore.

DiAngelo looked around the office and she saw nothing but white people, all of them with jobs.  

"It was unnerving," she says now. "It was like, 'This is not rooted in any racial reality that is happening, in this room, in this workplace, or in this man’s life.' And yet, these feelings are real. His rage is real. How do we do that?"

Meaning: How do white people see themselves as the victims of racism, when the world around them shows something totally different?

DiAngelo worked for years doing racism workshops, wondering this. Eventually, she developed a theory.

"I started thinking about how fragile our sensibilities are when it comes to race," she says

But that doesn’t stop us from forming opinions, many of them strongly held. And one of the biggest ones is about what racism means, and who is racist.  

"The number one most effective adaptation of racism over time," DiAngelo says, "is the good/bad binary, this idea that a racist is a bad person and a good person is not racist. And so it’s about individuals who are either good or bad or who either do or don’t engage."

One of the side effects is that many white people come to believe that if they just don’t talk about or think about race, then they are not racist.

"Racism comes out of our pores as white people. It's the way that we are."
Then, if someone comes along and talks about racism the way DiAngelo does – that racism is a system of oppression. That anyone can be prejudiced, but in America, only white people are racist. And, actually, all white people are racist because, as DiAngelo says:

"Racism comes out of our pores as white people. It's the way that we are."

Almost any defensiveness that you get from a white person trying to talk about racism is rooted in that good/bad binary," DiAngelo says. "They hear you saying, 'You are a bad person.'"

The flip side, DiAngelo says if you think of yourself as one of the “good” white people, you think you’ve got it down. You see the latest person caught on camera using the "n-word," that’s what racism is to you. Whatever you’re doing isn’t racist.

And so you don’t think about the whiteness of your neighborhood, your school system or your office.....


http://stateofopportunity.michiganradio.org/post/why-all-white-people-are-racist-cant-handle-being-called-racist-theory-white-fragility



A very interesting article actually, but for me, this is the crux of what I am always saying:


Almost any defensiveness that you get from a white person trying to talk about racism is rooted in that good/bad binary," DiAngelo says. "They hear you saying, 'You are a bad person.'"

The flip side, DiAngelo says if you think of yourself as one of the “good” white people, you think you’ve got it down. You see the latest person caught on camera using the "n-word," that’s what racism is to you. Whatever you’re doing isn’t racist.

And so you don’t think about the whiteness of your neighborhood, your school system"

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Post by Tommy Monk on Tue May 19, 2015 11:36 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:It's not 'Asian grooming gangs'... it is large numbers of Paki Muslim gangs raping white British children...

"Large numbers," huh? How about actual numbers?


Well... in rotherham alone there is evidence of systematic and wide spread rape and abuse of over1400 white British children over a ten year period by almost exclusively Paki Muslims... each child suffering multiple abuses by a wider network of Paki Muslims, both from the local area and also having been transported to various other towns and cities for large numbers of other Paki Muslims to have a go too at raping and abusing these poor unfortunate children!!!


All of which was happening with the knowledge of the local council, The police, social services and other local authorities in rotherham.


Now that is one town in UK over a ten year period, with a known number of child rape victims of these Paki Muslim rape gangs being at 1400 (the true figure likely to be much higher).

Then when you consider that The total population of rotherham is around 250,000... but Muslim population of rotherham is only around 3% or 7500...



So 1400 white British children were systematically raped and abused by multiple Paki Muslim men each over a ten year period... in a town consisting of only 7500 Muslims (half of whom were women)...


And those children were also transported to various other towns and cities to suffer the same rape and abuse from other large numbers of Paki Muslims...




That is only one town in UK... there is plenty of evidence of the same shit happening up and down the country and evidence of it also happening with the full knowledge of local councils, police, social services and other local authorities... and also almost exclusively being carried out by Paki Muslims against white British children!!!



Muslims only make up about 3% of UK population.


But these child rape gangs are over 95% Paki Muslim.


Please check out the facts and try to prove me wrong... PLEASE!!!



I also posted up a couple of good videos about the problem...

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Post by veya_victaous on Wed May 20, 2015 12:07 am

I already did that and you keep saying the same thing, WHY ARE YOU PROTECTING PEADOS TM!!! do you think hating on Muslims is MORE IMPORTANT than getting rid of peados in the UK!!! CLEARLY as Muslims peados make up only 3% of total peados in the UK pretending they are the problem is to protect the White peados Many of Which are BLOODY POLITICIANS..


From previous post
1400 while that is bad it is over 16 years that is a fraction of the 2800 British children being protected form sexual assault EVERY YEAR over the same time period, 44800 Children where sexually abused in Britain SO Muslim Child abusers equate to about 3% of the Total Number of Child Abusers in Britain.. which is About the proportion of the total population they are

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/child-sexual-abuse/sexual-abuse-facts-statistics/

Look at the numbers

Nearly 30,000 registered sex offenders have offended against children in the UK

Over 23,000 sexual offences against children were recorded in the UK last year

Over 5,500 sexual offences were recorded against children under 11 last year


STOP PRETENDING THE PROBLEM IS Muslims WHEN IT IS CLEARLY MUCH LARGER THAN THAT IN THE UK!!!!! you still have 97% of Peado that are NOT Muslim !!!!!


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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 12:13 am

I re posted that for Ben as he asked for figures... and I answered your post earlier and showed how your figures are completely flawed...

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Post by veya_victaous on Wed May 20, 2015 12:49 am

no you just said stuff that still applies to both figures. So the percentages stay the same

97% of Peados in the UK are not Muslims

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 12:58 am

Reposted for veya...


You are twisting the  figures.


The 1400 was a low estimate for only one town (with a relatively small total Muslim population of only about 7000, not all of them Pakis, and half of them being women so a town with only about 2000 Paki Muslim men).


These children were all systematically raped and abused, each by multiple attackers, some more than 100 different men, and even transported to other towns and cities for others to rape and abuse them.


Each one victim had multiple Paki Muslim attackers, compared to most victims only having one attacker, plus the 1400 was a low estimate for only one town.


So your claim that over the same time period, 44800 Children where sexually abused in Britain and only 1400 were by Paki Muslims and that is about 3%, same as national population is completely flawed.


They were beaten and threatened with weapons and death, even having their families threatened.


This all happening with The knowledge of local police and social services and other authorities.


This is the tip of the iceberg with evidence of similar shit happening up and down the country.


The full scale of this problem is still being covered up.





The three important factors you are failing to include in your calculations are;


1) While most victims of child sexual abuse only have one attacker, these victims were each raped and abused by multiple attackers, some over a hundred different men. So each one victim equals multiple different Paki Muslim rapists.

2) The 1400 figure was for only one town and a low end estimate. When you multiply this figure by a number of other towns and cities where we know this has been happening you can see a huge number of victims and an even bigger number of Paki Muslim attackers, as each victim had multiple attackers as I have already explained in point 1.

3) This has been happening with the full knowledge of local police, councils, social services and child protection authorities. And even now this has become public knowledge, we have still seen 'only a few' arrests and prosecutions of the known offenders, and none of the 'officials' who were complicit in it all being prosecuted or even losing their jobs.




This is also a huge problem for girls and women in the Paki Muslim community but goes almost exclusively unreported to police or even to family and friends because of 'honour' reasons.


Sexy mama has confirmed this before.




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Post by veya_victaous on Wed May 20, 2015 1:11 am

Re-posted for TM
SAME WITH YOUR POLITICAL OFFICIALS
that are doing it in the same sort of numbers!
Ever think that paki gang is being used as a distraction from the fact British Politicians have been running a child sex slave ring for decades


http://www.vice.com/read/behind-anonymouss-operation-to-reveal-britains-elite-child-rape-syndicate-273


"establish independent, internationally linked, victim-led inquiries into high-level complicity, obstruction of justice, and cover-ups in the pedosadism and child-trafficking industries." Its targets are: "Those in positions of power who control or enable the industry, globally."

When asked about the media attention to this issue so far, Marsh rated it "ridiculously low," adding that this is "the biggest story to break in the UK in centuries."

She continued: "What media coverage there is from the more prominent outlets is a diversion instead of investigation. Media has consistently depicted the rape, torture, murder, abduction, and blackmail of children as 'child sex' or a 'sex scandal' and the child victims as 'prostitutes' or even 'rent boys.'"


As last week's horrifying news from France dominated the European and global news cycles, much of the media's attention toward the growing allegations of British political elite being involved in a ring of child rape has notably subsided. Online, however, a group of activists—some associated with the hacktivist group Anonymous—have been pushing for more attention to be brought to this deeply unsettling issue percolating in the UK. Their efforts are being organized under the hashtag banner of #OpDeathEaters.

In December, Scotland Yard made the shocking admission that new allegations pertaining to the rape and murder of young boys by so-called VIPs in Britain's political world are true.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 1:18 am

Plus you also fail to consider the fact that although the total Muslim population of UK is 3%, the percentage of Paki Muslims is much lower...



Also the establishment peado ring you are talking about was set up through a left wing organisation called P.I.E.(peadophile information exchange) in the 70's... and was mainly homosexuals...



Although this does not divert from the facts I posted.








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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 1:47 am

https://cigpapers.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/p-i-e-paedophile-information-exchange-exposed-part-two/

https://cigpapers.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/harriet-harman-in-butterfly-brooch/

https://cigpapers.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/the-elm-guest-house-vip-paedophile-party-list/

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 2:38 pm


On April 8, the Guardian reported that there has been a 60% increase in child sexual abuse reported to the police over the past four years, according to official figures obtained through a Freedom of Information request that make public for the first time the scale of the problem in England and Wales.
 
The number of offenses of child sexual abuse reported to the police soared from 5,557 cases in 2011 to 8,892 in 2014. At the same time, the number of arrests for child sexual abuse offenses in England and Wales fell from 3,511 in 2011 to 3,208 — a drop of 9%.
 
The biggest increase in reported cases in a single police force over the past four years took place in South Yorkshire. The force saw an increase of 577% in cases from 74 in 2011 to 501 in 2014, apparently reflecting the exposure of the Muslim sexual abuse scandal in Rotherham.

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 3:05 pm

In the highly charged fallout from the Rotherham report, Nazir Afzal, the Crown Prosecution Service’s lead on child sexual abuse and violence against women and girls, tries to offer a calm perspective. Unruffled by mounting media hysteria over the ethnicity of abusers in Rotherham, he suggests stepping back and taking a wider view of the nationwide picture of child sex abuse.
His role means he has oversight of all child sex abuse cases in England and Wales. “So I know that the vast majority of offenders are British white male,” he says, setting the number at somewhere between 80 and 90%. “We have come across cases all over the country and the ethnicity of the perpetrators varies depending on where you are … It is not the abusers’ race that defines them. It is their attitude to women that defines them.”
Afzal, 51, is resigned to the ongoing scrutiny of commentators on the right towards the role of Asian men in recent grooming cases, but thinks that the focus is an overreaction. He is also wary of the suggestion found in the report, and reiterated by home secretary Theresa May on Tuesday, that a culture of “political correctness” had contributed to the authorities’ decision to turn a blind eye to the abuse of at least 1,400 in Rotherham.
“I don’t want to play it down. The ethnicity of these perpetrators is what it is. It is a matter of fact. It is an issue that has to be addressed by the state, and the authorities and the community – but it’s important to contextualise this,” he says, racing rapidly through his arguments, twizzling a paper-clip in his fingers in time with his swift delivery.
He notes that the amount of media attention devoted to child sex abuse cases is inconsistent. He led the legal teams that reopened and successfully prosecuted the Rochdale grooming case in 2012, over the abuse of 47 girls by a group of Asian men. “A few weeks after the Rochdale case, we dealt with a case of 10 white men in North Yorkshire who had been abusing young girls, and they were all convicted and they got long sentences. It didn’t get the level of coverage,” he says.
Where there is involvement of Asian men or men of Pakistani origin, he points to a practical, rather than cultural explanation – the fact that in the areas where grooming scandals have been uncovered, those controlling the night-time economy, people working through the night in takeaways and driving minicabs, are predominantly Asian men. He argues that evidence suggests that victims were not targeted because they were white but because they were vulnerable and their vulnerability caused them to seek out “warmth, love, transport, mind-numbing substances, drugs, alcohol and food”.
“Who offers those things? In certain parts of the country, the place they go is the night-time economy,” he says. “Where you have Pakistani men, Asian men, disproportionately employed in the night-time economy, they are going to be more involved in this kind of activity than perhaps white men are. We keep hearing people talk about a problem in the north and the Midlands, and that’s where you have lots of minicab drivers, lots of people employed in takeaways, from that kind of background. If you have a preponderance of Asians working in those fields, some of that number, a very small number of those people, will take advantage of the girls who have moved into their sphere of influence. It’s tragic.”
In the acres of coverage of this issue, few others have considered the possibility of such a pragmatic explanation for the profile of the abusers. Only Rochdale’s Labour MP, Simon Danczuk, has attempted a similar hypothesis, telling the New Statesman: “It’s a complex jigsaw and ethnicity is just one of the pieces. Class is a major factor, night-time economy is a factor in terms of this type of on-street grooming.”
Afzal is at pains to play down simmering racial tensions by providing a dispassionate picture of the broader context. “I don’t want this to turn into a reason to hate Pakistani and Asian communities because this is a very small minority of people within those communities who are offenders,” he says. “You should not taint the whole community by the actions of several dozen, a small minority of men. Criminality begins and ends with the criminal, and not collectively with the law-abiding communities.”
In the aftermath of the Rochdale trial, Afzal was disturbed at the way that some responded by muddling the actions of those prosecuted with their religious backgrounds. “There is a lot of criticism of religion – namely: ‘Is this a Muslim thing?’” He recalls how after the Rochdale case, someone called the Radio 4 Any Answers programme. “He said the Qu’ran supports paedophilia. I’m not paraphrasing, that is what he said. He wasn’t cut off, he was allowed to say all manner of things.”
“There is no religious basis for this. These men were not religious. Islam says that alcohol, drugs, rape and abuse are all forbidden, yet these men were surrounded by all of these things. So how can anyone say that these men were driven by their religion to do this kind of thing?
“They were doing this horrible, terrible stuff, because of the fact that they are men. That’s sadly what the driver is here. This is about male power. These young girls have been manipulated and abused because they were easy prey for evil men.”
But he recognises that this will be a difficult issue for the British Asian community for some time. “In one case I dealt with, a British National party member was convicted of child sexual abuse. The response of the BNP was to say that he was no longer a member. The British Pakistani community cannot do that about members of their community that are involved in abuse,” he says, pointing out that they do not have the same option of neatly removing membership rights from community members involved in abuse.
He says that he is unmoved by the current outcry (“I’m not interested in national outcry, I’m interested in protecting victims”), but believes if there are lessons to be learned from the Rotherham tragedy, they are less to do with the dangers of political correctness, and more with the need for a radical shift in the way that victims of this kind of crime are treated.
Afzal rejects the suggestion that no action was taken by officials “to avoid rocking the multicultural boat”, which has been the one thread of the Rotherham report widely seized on. This has “very little” to do with political correctness, he says, adding: “I’ve yet to hear personally a victim say the reason why the police weren’t interested was because of the colour of the perpetrator.” He concedes that some victims in Rotherham felt that this was a factor, but still argues that incompetence rather that sensitivity to multicultural values was the real problem.
Instead he believes that the cases were not pursued properly because “everyone involved was not as competent as they should have been. I can only speak for the cases I’ve dealt with, but it usually comes down to poor investigation; we didn’t investigate early enough. People have not been as good at their job as they should have been. They haven’t asked the right questions. As a result the victims did not have the confidence to come forward.”
He is disturbed at the number of times cases were dropped because police were concerned that they would be too difficult to prosecute because “the credibility of the young woman was damaged by her chaotic lifestyle”. Sometimes police would decide not to pursue a case because the victim had criminal convictions herself. “My view is that this is exactly what you would expect with a victim. That she has been led astray and manipulated by the abuser. He’s not going to look for the young girl who has never been in trouble. They deliberately target the ones who have the most chaotic backgrounds, the most troubled lives.”
Afzal’s focus on the need to improve the way victims are listened to chimes with the work being done by his former boss, the ex-head of the Crown Prosecution Service, Keir Starmer, who is working on how to reform a criminal justice system he describes as “barely fit for purpose”. Starmer is drafting a proposed victims’ law, that Labour has promised to pass if elected.
The legal system is itself guilty of wrongly classifying the victims of abuse as criminals. Even as recently as 2008, legal documents referred to children who were the victims of this kind of abuse as “child prostitutes”, he points out, “as if somehow what the children were doing was a lifestyle choice”.
Afzal has received criticism from all sides for his work in this area. Members of the Asian community have asked him: “‘Nazir, why are you giving racist or Islamophobes a stick to beat us with?’ My response to that is that we as a community should be carrying our own stick. Then there won’t be a reason for people to launch blanket attacks on the whole faith and the whole community.” He had hope for more “vocal” condemnation of the child sexual abuse scandals by the Asian community, as well as more support of his work combating “honour”-based killings and forced marriages – two other issues he has focused on in the past decade. “I do feel that there’s a deficit of leadership in some parts of the Muslim community. They could be much more challenging of certain behaviours,” he says, adding that this is the most effective way to counter the threat of Islamophobia. “The silence of people who may know something or have heard something only hurts our children.”
He has also been the victim of persistent threats and abuse from the far right, who for a while ran a letter-writing campaign to the prime minister calling for him to be sacked and deported. “I was born in Birmingham. They can deport me to Birmingham if they want to,” he says. “But I think if you are getting it from both sides, you are probably getting something right.”

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/03/nazir-afzal-there-is-no-religious-basis-for-the-abuse-in-rotherham

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 3:07 pm

The recent publication of the independent enquiry into child sexual exploitation in Rotherham has returned the spotlight to this shameful episode in the town’s history. But while the report quite rightly blamed the catastrophic and multiple failures of the local council, police and child protection agencies, media coverage of it has focused, once again, on the race, religion and ethnic background of the perpetrators. This is because such a focus fits into the populist right-wing discourse around the supposed tyranny of political correctness and feeds a generalised sense of white victimhood. It wrongly attempts to explain the exploitation of children by means of the supposed deviancy of the Pakistani/Muslim community, encouraging a racial and religious profiling of child sex crimes that minimises the role of white men in abuse. Rather than helping the victims, this approach serves to distract attention from the prominent role of white, establishment figures in sexually exploiting children.

The key finding of the Jay report that commentators have pounced on is that “Several [Rotherham Council] staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.”. This line appears to have been the cue for the right-wing press to declare open season on all Muslims, Pakistanis and even Asians as well as the politically correct left-wing politicians who are supposed to have enabled them.
 
The Daily Mail led with “Betrayed by PC cowards” whereas The Sun preferred “1,400 victims of PC brigade” and “Scandal of race fears”. Apparently “the Left-wing council let [the exploitation] go on because the rapists were Asian”. The Telegraph’s columnists blamed “an imported culture of vicious misogyny” in which “men of Pakistani heritage slak[ed] their lust on young girls they regarded as white trash”. “In the face of such evil” Allison Pearson’s Orientalist fantasy piece begged, “who is the racist now?” Some commentators, such as Sun columnist Katie Hopkins, simply read directly from the far right’s propaganda: “If you follow a religion where your imaginary prophet is a paedophile I suspect you think it is OK to rape young white girls too” she tweeted.

What is never explained, however, is why identifying the perpetrators of the abuse by their ethnic background would have been useful to those tasked with stopping it. Instead, these are just further calls for collective punishment of one of the UK’s most victimised communities. Race and its new, more politically correct synonym, culture, are invoked to create a convenient scapegoat; to paint a black and white picture in which complexities are erased in a blur of emotional fury. They reveal the underlying fear and irrational rage of conservative white Britain against the immigrant Other.

Actress Samantha Morton, who grew up in and was abused in children’s homes in Nottingham during the 1980s, recently spoke at length about her experiences to The Guardian newspaper. Her analysis of the demographics of abuse is rather different to that peddled by the middle-class opinion writers in London. Her abusers were “local boys, mainly white” she said, adding that “if the home had been in Hyson Green maybe it would have been Pakistani men. I don’t think it was race-specific. Not at all”. Wasn’t the ethnicity of the perpetrators of the Rotherham abuse simply a reflection of the fact that the night time industries of this Northern town (taxi driving, takeaways) were largely staffed by members of the Pakistani community?

When the Rother ham cases first made headlines in 2012, expert researchers into the phenomenon of on-street grooming, Ella Cockbain and Helen Brayley, gave their assessment of the evidence:
“We believe that there are two main profiles of the on-street groomer. First, we have the white offenders, who typically offend alone. So far, nothing new: the lone white male is the norm for UK child sex offences. Second, however, there are Asian offenders, many of whom are of Pakistani origin. They seem much more likely to offend in groups, lending their abuse a curiously social dimension.”

Between 80-90% of child sex offenders are white men according to the CPS’ lead prosecutor on child sexual abuse, Nazir Afzal, although coverage of white grooming gangs has not made as many headlines as those involving Asians. Recent prosecutions of four white men and one Asian man in Derby and 10 white men in North Yorkshire did not receive anywhere near the same level of coverage in the national media as those involving gangs of predominantly Asian men. Then there is the rather different treatment of sex abuse committed by white male celebrities like Jimmy Savile, Rolf Harris and Cyril Smith not to mention those yet to be unearthed by an investigation into a paedophile ring believed to have involved members of Parliament. These cases have also affected large numbers of children (as many as 450 over 6 decades in the case of Savile) and also featured extensive collusion and cover up by the authorities. Yet we do not hear about Australian Harris’ “imported culture of vicious misogyny” or editorials castigating the deficiencies of Smith’s Lancashire upbringing. There are no calls for white men to suffer for the crimes of a few of their number. These men were viewed as abhorrent exceptions rather than representative of their ethnic group, a luxury those from minorities are rarely afforded. Simply put, these were not the right kind of perpetrators.

The generalisation that seems most apt regarding the perpetrators of these crimes is that they were men. All of the offenders in all of these cases were male and the majority of their victims were female. It is the sexual objectification of women and girls and total disregard of the desires and needs that results in abuse. In a society where it is common for girls to be sexualised from an early age and assessed by their desirability to men and a culture that encourages men to see what they can get away with in the bedroom, it is no surprise that sexual abuse occurs on a large scale. It is also not surprising that some male authority figures like policemen and council officials disbelieve the victims. This conspiracy of silence is most likely when those committing the abuse are men in powerful social positions who can use their money and influence to cover up their crimes. But that is a threatening and complex conclusion and implicates too many with male privilege, power and influence, a description that fits the owners of many of this country’s newspapers. It’s much easier to say the problem is one of savage swarthy foreigners, unable to control their lust for white flesh. The communities that are damaged by such harmful fairy tales have little access to media resources in order to tell a different story.


https://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/kind-perpetrator-race-religion-gender-rotherham-child-abuse-scandal/

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 3:09 pm

Paki Muslim child rapists are not the victims.

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Post by eddie on Wed May 20, 2015 6:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:And a around a third of all child sex abusers are men who target ONLY boys...





What's that got to do with anything Matt?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 6:43 pm

Well, we have dodge and veya trying to divert with irrelevant stuff so I thought I'd join in too...!



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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 6:47 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Well, we have dodge and veya trying to divert with irrelevant stuff so I thought I'd join in too...!




No she means what has it got to do with the thread she started?

Its you that diverted with grooming gangs

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 8:19 pm

Anti white racism and giving Paki Muslims special treatment again for racist reasons...


Thought that was obvious...





Seems labours target driven policing is much to blame as police chiefs got bonuses for box ticking by ignoring child sex abuse and using officers to fulfil the targets set by labour on non serious crimes...


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-sets-out-plans-to-tackle-police-boxticking-culture-10263244.html

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 8:50 pm

More...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3086387/Girl-victim-Asian-abuse-gang-sex-60-men-approached-Woolworths-aged-just-12.html#ixzz3aWfK9KTB

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 8:59 pm

France: Muslims screaming “Hitler did not finish his work” assault Jewish woman

No one will take any particular notice of this. With antisemitism rising everywhere, many will quietly applaud it. They will reserve their venom for Pamela Geller and me for daring to point out the reality of Islamic antisemitism.

“French Jewish Woman Assaulted in Paris Suburb by 3 Men Shouting ‘Hitler Didn’t Finish His Work’” By Algemeiner, May 15, 2015 (thanks to Pamela Geller):

A French Jewish woman was assaulted by three men in an apparent antisemitic attack in the Paris suburb Sarcelles last Wednesday, the Algemeiner has learned.

The three assailants were of African origin and shouted “Hitler did not finish his work” and “dirty race” while assaulting the woman, according to a French antisemitism watchdog.


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/05/france-Muslims-screaming-hitler-did-not-finish-his-work-assault-jewish-woman


Is this racist enough for you...!?



Or how about this...?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070562/Muslim-girl-gang-kicked-Rhea-Page-head-yelling-kill-white-slag-FREED.html





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Post by eddie on Wed May 20, 2015 9:02 pm

Seriously Matt, what has any of that got to do with the thread title or OP?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 9:19 pm

It is only white people who are constantly accused of being racist.


When the reality is that it is others who are much more racist but never really deemed so.


The Paki Muslim child rape gangs and the police and council and other authorities complicity in this was given as an example, then Ben questioned it and demanded numbers and evidence.


Dodge and veya then started with The usual deflection... now here we are!



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Post by eddie on Wed May 20, 2015 9:22 pm

I don't think veya and didge can say other races aren't racist as they clearly are.

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 9:24 pm

eddie wrote:I don't think veya and didge can say other races aren't racist as they clearly are.

Eddie, never claimed other people within ethnic groups are not or cannot be racist

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 9:26 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
Original Quill wrote:We also do exactly what we see here.  We invent racism against whites, something for which there is no reality, nor a history.  That's the equalizer that, tho fictional, salves the conscience of the white.

Which shows how out of touch with reality you are.
Again you ignore the blatant racism found in what was former Rhodesia.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries



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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 9:30 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Maybe I should clarify, I mean people of all races can be racist... not all people of all races are racist...


Yes that is 100% correct

As Wolf said there is a lot of Racism in Asia.


So there is evidence from both myself easily refuting Tommy's poor claims Eddie.
As seen neither of us claimed other "races" are not racist

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 9:38 pm

That was what I was originally saying Eddie, with The added point that whites hate being the only ones who are constantly battered with The accusations of 'racist'.


When white British people are generally the least racist and most accepting and tolerant of all!!!


In fact some now bend over so far to show how unracist they are as to treat others with special treatment PURELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE!!!


All in the name of equality mind!!!


lol!

It's got beyond a joke bloody years ago!!!


With some now so used to getting special treatment that other are now accused of discrimination for not giving special treatment but just by treating them equally.


And while we have so many examples of racism against whites that are only very rarely and very reluctantly acknowledged as racism... and even then let off lightly, down played etc...


I mean attacks on whites are happening all the time with no mention or racism but we are all still getting beaten down about the Stephen Lawrence killing from 20 years ago.


Which I don't personally think was just a random racist attack anyway!


I'm sick of it!!!



Your op makes a sweeping statement that whites are racist etc and that is just accepted as fact without question or requirement of evidence or examples, but I say others are racist and I have to hammer home the proof into the pc face of denial and excuses!!!


Even high black and Muslim crime rates are whites fault apparently... because we are all so racist that we prevent them from getting on in honest professions etc...!


This leftie 'progressive' mentality makes me sick!!!

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 9:40 pm

As seen Eddie, after I have posted the evidence, Tommy was lying about both Veya and myself

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Post by eddie on Wed May 20, 2015 9:53 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
eddie wrote:I don't think veya and didge can say other races aren't racist as they clearly are.

Eddie, never claimed other people within ethnic groups are not or cannot be racist

Lol I know

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Post by eddie on Wed May 20, 2015 9:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:That was what I was originally saying Eddie, with The added point that whites hate being the only ones who are constantly battered with The accusations of 'racist'.


When white British people are generally the least racist and most accepting and tolerant of all!!!


In fact some now bend over so far to show how unracist they are as to treat others with special treatment PURELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE!!!


All in the name of equality mind!!!


lol!

It's got beyond a joke bloody years ago!!!


With some now so used to getting special treatment that other are now accused of discrimination for not giving special treatment but just by treating them equally.


And while we have so many examples of racism against whites that are only very rarely and very reluctantly acknowledged as racism... and even then let off lightly, down played etc...


I mean attacks on whites are happening all the time with no mention or racism but we are all still getting beaten down about the Stephen Lawrence killing from 20 years ago.


Which I don't personally think was just a random racist attack anyway!


I'm sick of it!!!



Your op makes a sweeping statement that whites are racist etc and that is just accepted as fact without question or requirement of evidence or examples, but I say others are racist and I have to hammer home the proof into the pc face of denial and excuses!!!


Even high black and Muslim crime rates are whites fault apparently... because we are all so racist that we prevent them from getting on in honest professions etc...!


This leftie 'progressive' mentality makes me sick!!!

Actually Matt the op makes a statement about closet racists too

And I didn't write it. I thought it was an interesting article - but has nothing to do with grooming gangs lol

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Post by Raggamuffin on Wed May 20, 2015 9:59 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:That was what I was originally saying Eddie, with The added point that whites hate being the only ones who are constantly battered with The accusations of 'racist'.


When white British people are generally the least racist and most accepting and tolerant of all!!!


In fact some now bend over so far to show how unracist they are as to treat others with special treatment PURELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE!!!


All in the name of equality mind!!!


lol!

It's got beyond a joke bloody years ago!!!


With some now so used to getting special treatment that other are now accused of discrimination for not giving special treatment but just by treating them equally.


And while we have so many examples of racism against whites that are only very rarely and very reluctantly acknowledged as racism... and even then let off lightly, down played etc...


I mean attacks on whites are happening all the time with no mention or racism but we are all still getting beaten down about the Stephen Lawrence killing from 20 years ago.


Which I don't personally think was just a random racist attack anyway!


I'm sick of it!!!



Your op makes a sweeping statement that whites are racist etc and that is just accepted as fact without question or requirement of evidence or examples, but I say others are racist and I have to hammer home the proof into the pc face of denial and excuses!!!


Even high black and Muslim crime rates are whites fault apparently... because we are all so racist that we prevent them from getting on in honest professions etc...!


This leftie 'progressive' mentality makes me sick!!!

You don't think that attack on Stephen Lawrence was random?

There's no doubt that it was a racist attack. I actually don't agree with a lot of the MacPherson report though - I think there were a lot of assumptions made and a lot of accusations of racism within the police with nothing to back that up.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 10:01 pm



Wolf did a rare sensible post earlier on before all that highlighting racism by some of the oriental Asian groups.


I'm not disputing that and think I even commented at the time.


But after then I was making my points and used the Paki Muslim child rapists as an example and that is when Ben asked for some numbers and proof and Dodge and veya started with The denials and deflections.


This example was two fold... firstly the huge numbers of almost exclusively Paki Muslim child rapists and white British child victims plus the widespread police, councils, social services and other authorities not only being inactive in dealing with it because of the racial aspect of it but actually working to cover it all up!!!


When we all know that if it was gangs of white British men doing the same to exclusively brown Paki Muslim children then they would have pulled out all the stops to deal with it immediately, probably calling in the army and bringing back hanging too!!!


The whole thing stinks and I'm sick of it!!!


Veya even tried to twist it round like I was just using it as an excuse to bash Muslims and tried twisting the figures to try to claim that it's ok because 3% OF population are Muslims and doing ONLY 3% of child sex abuse...


When the true scale of the problem is beyond staggering!!!







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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 10:03 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:That was what I was originally saying Eddie, with The added point that whites hate being the only ones who are constantly battered with The accusations of 'racist'.


When white British people are generally the least racist and most accepting and tolerant of all!!!


In fact some now bend over so far to show how unracist they are as to treat others with special treatment PURELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE!!!


All in the name of equality mind!!!


lol!

It's got beyond a joke bloody years ago!!!


With some now so used to getting special treatment that other are now accused of discrimination for not giving special treatment but just by treating them equally.


And while we have so many examples of racism against whites that are only very rarely and very reluctantly acknowledged as racism... and even then let off lightly, down played etc...


I mean attacks on whites are happening all the time with no mention or racism but we are all still getting beaten down about the Stephen Lawrence killing from 20 years ago.


Which I don't personally think was just a random racist attack anyway!


I'm sick of it!!!



Your op makes a sweeping statement that whites are racist etc and that is just accepted as fact without question or requirement of evidence or examples, but I say others are racist and I have to hammer home the proof into the pc face of denial and excuses!!!


Even high black and Muslim crime rates are whites fault apparently... because we are all so racist that we prevent them from getting on in honest professions etc...!


This leftie 'progressive' mentality makes me sick!!!

You don't think that attack on Stephen Lawrence was random?

There's no doubt that it was a racist attack.
I actually don't agree with a lot of the MacPherson report though - I think there were a lot of assumptions made and a lot of accusations of racism within the police with nothing to back that up.

OMG Rags, this is like opening Pandora's Box to Tommy. lol

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Post by Raggamuffin on Wed May 20, 2015 10:05 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You don't think that attack on Stephen Lawrence was random?

There's no doubt that it was a racist attack.
I actually don't agree with a lot of the MacPherson report though - I think there were a lot of assumptions made and a lot of accusations of racism within the police with nothing to back that up.

OMG Rags, this is like opening Pandora's Box to Tommy. lol

I know - perhaps it's the subject for another thread really.

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Post by eddie on Wed May 20, 2015 10:06 pm

Stephen Lawrence's murder was absolutely a racist attack.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Wed May 20, 2015 10:06 pm

Re the grooming thing, I don't think the point is that it was Muslim or Pakistani men doing it, the issue is whether or not a blind eye was turned because nobody wanted to offend those communities or be accused of racism. I think the jury is still out on that one.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Wed May 20, 2015 10:08 pm

eddie wrote:Stephen Lawrence's murder was absolutely a racist attack.

Tommy said he didn't think it was a random racist attack, he didn't say it wasn't a racist attack. I took that to mean that the blokes targeted Stephen as opposed to happening to see a black guy across the street.

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 10:09 pm

Nobody started with any denials on grooming gangs, in fact I rightly stated they were a problem Tommy, so you are lying yet again.
What was rightly questioned was your poor methodology on to the amounts you thought were involved. As seen you were making things up as you went along. You took the number of victims and then started to multiple off this, when we have seen for example someone like JS have hundreds of victims alone. I showed you based off victim reports of the offenders a rough estimate to how many, which you got your knickers in a twist with and then starting claiming it was all lies. The information gathered from the Victims by the Police was very much after everything had come out in the open, it showed you did not like the fact your methodology was just utterly poor. I admit mine was based off their evidence off two incomplete reports on the full details of offenders.

So stop telling porkies Tommy

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 10:11 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:That was what I was originally saying Eddie, with The added point that whites hate being the only ones who are constantly battered with The accusations of 'racist'.


When white British people are generally the least racist and most accepting and tolerant of all!!!


In fact some now bend over so far to show how unracist they are as to treat others with special treatment PURELY BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE!!!


All in the name of equality mind!!!


lol!

It's got beyond a joke bloody years ago!!!


With some now so used to getting special treatment that other are now accused of discrimination for not giving special treatment but just by treating them equally.


And while we have so many examples of racism against whites that are only very rarely and very reluctantly acknowledged as racism... and even then let off lightly, down played etc...


I mean attacks on whites are happening all the time with no mention or racism but we are all still getting beaten down about the Stephen Lawrence killing from 20 years ago.


Which I don't personally think was just a random racist attack anyway!


I'm sick of it!!!



Your op makes a sweeping statement that whites are racist etc and that is just accepted as fact without question or requirement of evidence or examples, but I say others are racist and I have to hammer home the proof into the pc face of denial and excuses!!!


Even high black and Muslim crime rates are whites fault apparently... because we are all so racist that we prevent them from getting on in honest professions etc...!


This leftie 'progressive' mentality makes me sick!!!

You don't think that attack on Stephen Lawrence was random?

There's no doubt that it was a racist attack. I actually don't agree with a lot of the MacPherson report though - I think there were a lot of assumptions made and a lot of accusations of racism within the police with nothing to back that up.


Whether it was random and/or racist or not is beside the point I was making... it is the only thing there is in recent couple of decades to use to keep enforcing the perception/accusation that white British are inherently racist!


While all the huge number of attacks against whites every year are never portrayed as such.


I personally don't think it was a random racist attack... that is a different topic for a different thread.


But I'd be interested to know what concrete evidence there is that it was...?


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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 10:12 pm

No it was very much about institutional racism within the Police force.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Wed May 20, 2015 10:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You don't think that attack on Stephen Lawrence was random?

There's no doubt that it was a racist attack. I actually don't agree with a lot of the MacPherson report though - I think there were a lot of assumptions made and a lot of accusations of racism within the police with nothing to back that up.


Whether it was random and/or racist or not is beside the point I was making... it is the only thing there is in recent couple of decades to use to keep enforcing the perception/accusation that white British are inherently racist!


While all the huge number of attacks against whites every year are never portrayed as such.


I personally don't think it was a random racist attack... that is a different topic for a different thread.


But I'd be interested to know what concrete evidence there is that it was...?


I've wondered myself if those blokes and Stephen knew each other.

The reason it was so big in the news was the police investigation, and also the determination of Doreen Lawrence to label everyone involved as racist.

My main objection is the assumption that everything that went wrong with the investigation was down to racism - "unwitting" or otherwise.

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 10:17 pm

Well when you see the evidence Rags, the Police certainly hindered the case at many times.
There is no evidence he knew his would be attackers and it was very much a racist murder.

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 10:19 pm

Here is stats on hate crimes.
Ethnic breakdown on victims and those who commit them

http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2015/february_2015/2015010001672.pdf

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Post by Raggamuffin on Wed May 20, 2015 10:22 pm

Belatucadros wrote:Well when you see the evidence Rags, the Police certainly hindered the case at many times.
There is no evidence he knew his would be attackers and it was very much a racist murder.

I have looked at the evidence. I think a lot of it was down to cock ups, lack of staff, lack of communication, etc. That is not necessarily down to racism.

The thing is that very early on the investigating officer raised the issue of whether it was a random racist attack or not, and he was pretty much labelled as racist for doing that. I think it was a good question at the time. Nobody knew why Stephen was attacked - at the time. All they had to go on was Duwayne's evidence that one of the boys said the N word. I think it was perfectly reasonable to at least consider the possibility that there could have been another motive and not jump to conclusions. Don't forget that they had no evidence of who committed the crime at the time, so the possibility that Stephen knew his attackers was not beyond the realms of possibility.

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 10:26 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:Well when you see the evidence Rags, the Police certainly hindered the case at many times.
There is no evidence he knew his would be attackers and it was very much a racist murder.

I have looked at the evidence. I think a lot of it was down to cock ups, lack of staff, lack of communication, etc. That is not necessarily down to racism.

The thing is that very early on the investigating officer raised the issue of whether it was a random racist attack or not, and he was pretty much labelled as racist for doing that. I think it was a good question at the time. Nobody knew why Stephen was attacked - at the time. All they had to go on was Duwayne's evidence that one of the boys said the N word. I think it was perfectly reasonable to at least consider the possibility that there could have been another motive and not jump to conclusions. Don't forget that they had no evidence of who committed the crime at the time, so the possibility that Stephen knew his attackers was not beyond the realms of possibility.


There is plenty of evidence of racism also found within the Police also on this. I have studied this also.
The thing is those responsible were protected from the start and many knew who was responsible, of which all have not been brought to justice to this day. If he knew his attackers this would have been known, or of those who were seen to be the attackers. That part I do not buy at all, because Tommy has the wrong theory and says that SL was a "wrongun" as he puts it based solely on his prejudice of black people

Anyway this should be for another debate

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Post by Raggamuffin on Wed May 20, 2015 10:30 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I have looked at the evidence. I think a lot of it was down to cock ups, lack of staff, lack of communication, etc. That is not necessarily down to racism.

The thing is that very early on the investigating officer raised the issue of whether it was a random racist attack or not, and he was pretty much labelled as racist for doing that. I think it was a good question at the time. Nobody knew why Stephen was attacked - at the time. All they had to go on was Duwayne's evidence that one of the boys said the N word. I think it was perfectly reasonable to at least consider the possibility that there could have been another motive and not jump to conclusions. Don't forget that they had no evidence of who committed the crime at the time, so the possibility that Stephen knew his attackers was not beyond the realms of possibility.


There is plenty of evidence of racism also found within the Police also on this. I have studied this also.
The thing is those responsible were protected from the start and many knew who was responsible, of which all have not been brought to justice to this day. If he knew his attackers this would have been known, or of those who were seen to be the attackers. That part I do not buy at all, because Tommy has the wrong theory and says that SL was a "wrongun" as he puts it.

Anyway this should be for another debate

It would not necessarily have been known if he knew them or not. He could have encountered them in a chippy and had an argument or something. I'm not saying he did, I'm just saying that early on they didn't know if it was random or not, and they didn't know the motive. I don't think it was unreasonable to consider alternative possibilities.

Every single thing that the police did was scrutinised, and ridiculous accusations were thrown around as to their reasoning with absolutely nothing to back up a lot of it. Even the police officer who tried to administer first aid was accused by some people of not wanting to touch Stephen because he was black.


Last edited by Raggamuffin on Wed May 20, 2015 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 10:31 pm

If any of you would care to see the facts of What was posted, when, and by whom...



My first posts started towards the bottom of page 1 of this thread and much the same as that which I was saying a short while ago...


Also if you follow the thread through on to page 2, near the top, you can clearly see that it was Ben's first post on this page that brought up the subject of Paki Muslim child rape gangs... although he called it by its politically correct name 'Asian grooming gangs'which makes it sound more like a group of Chinese make over experts...


I corrected him on the wording and this put the lefties in automatic pc Muslim defence mode... which is why the problem was allowed to happen and get covered up for so long in the first place!!!


I was then feeling like I had to prove the existence of the problem and Ben asked for numbers etc...


This is when dodge and veya started twisting and deflecting.


Meaning I had to continue proving the point that it seems every other sane person in Britain has already accepted as reality...



In fact this sort of ingrained denial exhibited here is exactly the issue I was trying to point out in my original posts on this thread!!!


lol!



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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 10:40 pm

No I just pointed out your stats were complete fabricated in your own mind based off the number of victims. You did this before so badly on another forum, you ended up with more Pakistani men as offenders than Pakistanis living in the town of Rotherham. You claimed by your calculations off the number of victims to there being over 8000 Pakistani offenders in Rotherham. You then made an even further daft calculation off this number for the whole of the UK. I had to expose you after watching you continue to make a tit off yourself on this point. I had to point out there was only just under 8,000 Pakistanis living there, men women and children making that figure impossible. Which straight away showed your calculations were daft and idiotic. As seen based on the evidence collated so far in two reports based on victim testimony of the identity of the offenders. The number of convictions also, this number is more like for the UK at a top estimate of 500 as Asian on the known details given. Mine is an estimate based on two reports, but yours was just plain daft illogical invented numbers you made up.


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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 10:45 pm

Nothing of the sort on this thread.



Everyone can see that dodge.


The children were abused by others from elsewhere too, coming into the town to do so and they were transported to other towns and cities to be raped by others, so that figure is entirely possible for total number of different Paki Muslim men to Have abused those particular 1400 children.

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Post by Guest on Wed May 20, 2015 10:50 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Nothing of the sort on this thread.



Everyone can see that dodge.


The children were abused by others from elsewhere too, coming into the town to do so and they were transported to other towns and cities to be raped by others, so that figure is entirely possible for total number of different Paki Muslim men to Have abused those particular 1400 children.

OMG, I cannot believe you are still claiming that number for Rotherham, blimey, that really shows how clueless you are being as they have collated the evidence from the many victims in Rotherham of their attackers. This is included in the second report, which I showed you. So now its not possible in any shape or form. I suggest you read the report again and stop making a tit of yourself

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed May 20, 2015 10:51 pm

Think you need to learn to read dodge...



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Post by Raggamuffin on Wed May 20, 2015 10:58 pm

Were those men charged with a racially aggravated crime? I don't think there's much doubt that they targeted white girls generally because of their colour.

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