Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

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Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Thu May 14, 2015 8:14 am

The negative effects of psychiatric drugs, including those used to treat depression and dementia, outweigh the positives, an expert on clinical trials has suggested. Professor Peter Gøtzsche, the director of the Nordic Cochrane Centre at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen, has argued that the “minimal” benefits of psychiatric drugs are not enough to justify the deaths of more than a million people aged over 65 in the Western world each year.



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/antidepressants-and-other-psychiatric-drugs-do-more-harm-than-good-says-expert-10247352.html

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Ben Reilly on Thu May 14, 2015 8:39 am

Nemesis wrote:The negative effects of psychiatric drugs, including those used to treat depression and dementia, outweigh the positives, an expert on clinical trials has suggested. Professor Peter Gøtzsche, the director of the Nordic Cochrane Centre at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen, has argued that the “minimal” benefits of psychiatric drugs are not enough to justify the deaths of more than a million people aged over 65 in the Western world each year.



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/antidepressants-and-other-psychiatric-drugs-do-more-harm-than-good-says-expert-10247352.html

I recently had a medical genome test and one of the things they sent back in my report is the idea that medications (of most types) are only actually effective, on average, of 60 percent of the population. I thought that was pretty pathetic -- I've heard from others that psychiatric medications are even worse. Though you do get the occasional anecdote of the person whose life was completely changed for the better by Prozac.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Thu May 14, 2015 8:46 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nemesis wrote:The negative effects of psychiatric drugs, including those used to treat depression and dementia, outweigh the positives, an expert on clinical trials has suggested. Professor Peter Gøtzsche, the director of the Nordic Cochrane Centre at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen, has argued that the “minimal” benefits of psychiatric drugs are not enough to justify the deaths of more than a million people aged over 65 in the Western world each year.



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/antidepressants-and-other-psychiatric-drugs-do-more-harm-than-good-says-expert-10247352.html

I recently had a medical genome test and one of the things they sent back in my report is the idea that medications (of most types) are only actually effective, on average, of 60 percent of the population. I thought that was pretty pathetic -- I've heard from others that psychiatric medications are even worse. Though you do get the occasional anecdote of the person whose life was completely changed for the better by Prozac.

I am not suprised at the stats and what is worse is where people become reliant and even addicted to these drugs. As is this really helping the condition for people or just able for those it works for to surpress the condition? To me there are other ways to help and think medication is just chucked at a problem to often.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Ben Reilly on Thu May 14, 2015 8:50 am

Nemesis wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nemesis wrote:The negative effects of psychiatric drugs, including those used to treat depression and dementia, outweigh the positives, an expert on clinical trials has suggested. Professor Peter Gøtzsche, the director of the Nordic Cochrane Centre at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen, has argued that the “minimal” benefits of psychiatric drugs are not enough to justify the deaths of more than a million people aged over 65 in the Western world each year.



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/antidepressants-and-other-psychiatric-drugs-do-more-harm-than-good-says-expert-10247352.html

I recently had a medical genome test and one of the things they sent back in my report is the idea that medications (of most types) are only actually effective, on average, of 60 percent of the population. I thought that was pretty pathetic -- I've heard from others that psychiatric medications are even worse. Though you do get the occasional anecdote of the person whose life was completely changed for the better by Prozac.

I am not suprised at the stats and what is worse is where people become reliant and even addicted to these drugs. As is this really helping the condition for people or just able for those it works for to surpress the condition? To me there are other ways to help and think medication is just chucked at a problem to often.

I do think the drugs just mask a lot of the symptoms -- I was talking to a friend who takes a bunch of them recently and I tried to make the point that you really can feel depressed because you have something to feel depressed about. I know some people have chemical imbalances but I think for most people, when we feel sad we really should be trying to do something about what makes us feel that way, rather than just trying to medicate it.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu May 14, 2015 8:53 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nemesis wrote:The negative effects of psychiatric drugs, including those used to treat depression and dementia, outweigh the positives, an expert on clinical trials has suggested. Professor Peter Gøtzsche, the director of the Nordic Cochrane Centre at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen, has argued that the “minimal” benefits of psychiatric drugs are not enough to justify the deaths of more than a million people aged over 65 in the Western world each year.



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/antidepressants-and-other-psychiatric-drugs-do-more-harm-than-good-says-expert-10247352.html

I recently had a medical genome test and one of the things they sent back in my report is the idea that medications (of most types) are only actually effective, on average, of 60 percent of the population. I thought that was pretty pathetic -- I've heard from others that psychiatric medications are even worse. Though you do get the occasional anecdote of the person whose life was completely changed for the better by Prozac.

60% isn't bad actually.

Aspirin is often prescribed to help prevent further heart attacks, but I think it's only effective in around 25% of people.

Likewise, not all people who take a particular drug will have side effects.

The problem with psychiatric issues like depression is that there's not really a test which can be done at the GP, so they can only go on symptoms alone. Therefore, it's possible that drugs are being misprescribed.

However, there's no doubt that many people do benefit enormously from these type of drugs, so they shouldn't be slated too much. The usual thing is to try one drug and see if it helps. If not, something else is prescribed instead.

The deaths referred to in the article appear to be from suicide, and I don't think that can necessarily be attributed to the use of these drugs.

Also, I'm not sure it's a good idea to lump dementia and depression together.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Ben Reilly on Thu May 14, 2015 9:01 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nemesis wrote:The negative effects of psychiatric drugs, including those used to treat depression and dementia, outweigh the positives, an expert on clinical trials has suggested. Professor Peter Gøtzsche, the director of the Nordic Cochrane Centre at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen, has argued that the “minimal” benefits of psychiatric drugs are not enough to justify the deaths of more than a million people aged over 65 in the Western world each year.



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/antidepressants-and-other-psychiatric-drugs-do-more-harm-than-good-says-expert-10247352.html

I recently had a medical genome test and one of the things they sent back in my report is the idea that medications (of most types) are only actually effective, on average, of 60 percent of the population. I thought that was pretty pathetic -- I've heard from others that psychiatric medications are even worse. Though you do get the occasional anecdote of the person whose life was completely changed for the better by Prozac.

60% isn't bad actually.

Aspirin is often prescribed to help prevent further heart attacks, but I think it's only effective in around 25% of people.

Likewise, not all people who take a particular drug will have side effects.

The problem with psychiatric issues like depression is that there's not really a test which can be done at the GP, so they can only go on symptoms alone. Therefore, it's possible that drugs are being misprescribed.

However, there's no doubt that many people do benefit enormously from these type of drugs, so they shouldn't be slated too much. The usual thing is to try one drug and see if it helps. If not, something else is prescribed instead.

The deaths referred to in the article appear to be from suicide, and I don't think that can necessarily be attributed to the use of these drugs.

Also, I'm not sure it's a good idea to lump dementia and depression together.

Probably not Smile

And yeah, I'm sure there are plenty who are helped by these drugs. I've actually heard though that in some people, they can make depression worse, which might be where some of the suicide comes from. It just seems like a big gamble to me; I think some of these patients would be better off with cognitive therapy, where they learn to see things from a different perspective and change the negative narrative they impose on their lives.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Thu May 14, 2015 9:02 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

I recently had a medical genome test and one of the things they sent back in my report is the idea that medications (of most types) are only actually effective, on average, of 60 percent of the population. I thought that was pretty pathetic -- I've heard from others that psychiatric medications are even worse. Though you do get the occasional anecdote of the person whose life was completely changed for the better by Prozac.

60% isn't bad actually.

Aspirin is often prescribed to help prevent further heart attacks, but I think it's only effective in around 25% of people.

Likewise, not all people who take a particular drug will have side effects.

The problem with psychiatric issues like depression is that there's not really a test which can be done at the GP, so they can only go on symptoms alone. Therefore, it's possible that drugs are being misprescribed.

However, there's no doubt that many people do benefit enormously from these type of drugs, so they shouldn't be slated too much. The usual thing is to try one drug and see if it helps. If not, something else is prescribed instead.

The deaths referred to in the article appear to be from suicide, and I don't think that can necessarily be attributed to the use of these drugs.

Also, I'm not sure it's a good idea to lump dementia and depression together.

Actually that is a very poor stat, where again we are talking about drugs that supress conditions, not actually deal with conditions where in manyh cases there are side effects and where again that are non-effective to the point it is creates further issues and anxiety. Hoiw is ever going to help a person if they feel drugs are the answer tot he problem. Of course it wil certainly help some people and there are benefits where there is sleep disorders and things that are not so effecting of the mind, but with mental heaoth condtions there is the added risk of an increase of suicide, where the drugs can have the opposite effect because again druge work differently on people. So it is not the best position to take with mental health issues where again there are better. Yes they are a good start to help people surpress and calm where the case is servere but not a situation to keep people attached to such a view where they feel this is all that can help them. All these drugs to is treat symptoms and never cure the actual problem.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu May 14, 2015 9:03 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nemesis wrote:

I am not suprised at the stats and what is worse is where people become reliant and even addicted to these drugs. As is this really helping the condition for people or just able for those it works for to surpress the condition? To me there are other ways to help and think medication is just chucked at a problem to often.

I do think the drugs just mask a lot of the symptoms -- I was talking to a friend who takes a bunch of them recently and I tried to make the point that you really can feel depressed because you have something to feel depressed about. I know some people have chemical imbalances but I think for most people, when we feel sad we really should be trying to do something about what makes us feel that way, rather than just trying to medicate it.

I think that for someone who has depression, drugs can make them feel a little better, and then they can do things which they couldn't do before - which will help them to feel better.

I agree though that they can over-prescribed. If someone is in a terrible mental state because of something bad which happened, well that's natural and normal, and medication shouldn't necessarily be prescribed - at least not until it's clear that their state of mind is not going to improve on its own.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Ben Reilly on Thu May 14, 2015 9:06 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Nemesis wrote:

I am not suprised at the stats and what is worse is where people become reliant and even addicted to these drugs. As is this really helping the condition for people or just able for those it works for to surpress the condition? To me there are other ways to help and think medication is just chucked at a problem to often.

I do think the drugs just mask a lot of the symptoms -- I was talking to a friend who takes a bunch of them recently and I tried to make the point that you really can feel depressed because you have something to feel depressed about. I know some people have chemical imbalances but I think for most people, when we feel sad we really should be trying to do something about what makes us feel that way, rather than just trying to medicate it.

I think that for someone who has depression, drugs can make them feel a little better, and then they can do things which they couldn't do before - which will help them to feel better.

I agree though that they can over-prescribed. If someone is in a terrible mental state because of something bad which happened, well that's natural and normal, and medication shouldn't necessarily be prescribed - at least not until it's clear that their state of mind is not going to improve on its own.

I have another friend (why are so many of my friends on antidepressants?) who said the same thing, that the medicine helped her take the first few steps, but didn't actually fix everything. It did make it easier for her to start getting better, like giving her a little forward momentum.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu May 14, 2015 9:07 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

60% isn't bad actually.

Aspirin is often prescribed to help prevent further heart attacks, but I think it's only effective in around 25% of people.

Likewise, not all people who take a particular drug will have side effects.

The problem with psychiatric issues like depression is that there's not really a test which can be done at the GP, so they can only go on symptoms alone. Therefore, it's possible that drugs are being misprescribed.

However, there's no doubt that many people do benefit enormously from these type of drugs, so they shouldn't be slated too much. The usual thing is to try one drug and see if it helps. If not, something else is prescribed instead.

The deaths referred to in the article appear to be from suicide, and I don't think that can necessarily be attributed to the use of these drugs.

Also, I'm not sure it's a good idea to lump dementia and depression together.

Probably not Smile

And yeah, I'm sure there are plenty who are helped by these drugs. I've actually heard though that in some people, they can make depression worse, which might be where some of the suicide comes from. It just seems like a big gamble to me; I think some of these patients would be better off with cognitive therapy, where they learn to see things from a different perspective and change the negative narrative they impose on their lives.

I've also heard stories about antidepressants making it worse, but I also think the jury is still out on that. It's possible that they just don't work in a particular person, or the type of drug is targeting the wrong thing. Therefore, the person feels that there's no hope of improvement and feels even more depressed.

I've also seen it said that some people commit suicide when they actually start to feel better. That's because when they were very depressed they didn't have the will or energy to actually commit suicide, but when they felt a little better, they did. I'm not sure about that one though - it seems to me that if someone feels a bit better, they would not want to kill themselves.


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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu May 14, 2015 9:08 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think that for someone who has depression, drugs can make them feel a little better, and then they can do things which they couldn't do before - which will help them to feel better.

I agree though that they can over-prescribed. If someone is in a terrible mental state because of something bad which happened, well that's natural and normal, and medication shouldn't necessarily be prescribed - at least not until it's clear that their state of mind is not going to improve on its own.

I have another friend (why are so many of my friends on antidepressants?) who said the same thing, that the medicine helped her take the first few steps, but didn't actually fix everything. It did make it easier for her to start getting better, like giving her a little forward momentum.

Yes, and I think that's where they are very useful - they break the cycle a bit so the person can help themselves.


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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu May 14, 2015 9:13 am

I see that benzodiazepines were mentioned in the article. That would be drugs like Valium. The trouble with Valium is that people abuse it and then get addicted. It's a very useful drug as long as it's used properly. I don't think it's prescribed so much in the UK because doctors are a bit paranoid about it.

Antidepressants are not really addictive, but they can have side effects, and they can have withdrawal symptoms.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Thu May 14, 2015 9:18 am

Nemesis wrote:The negative effects of psychiatric drugs, including those used to treat depression and dementia, outweigh the positives, an expert on clinical trials has suggested. Professor Peter Gøtzsche, the director of the Nordic Cochrane Centre at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen, has argued that the “minimal” benefits of psychiatric drugs are not enough to justify the deaths of more than a million people aged over 65 in the Western world each year.



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/antidepressants-and-other-psychiatric-drugs-do-more-harm-than-good-says-expert-10247352.html

this seems to be happening more and more , i watched a program that seemed to shown, honey, lemon and warm water was better than any cough medicine on the shelves, it also said the claims of the cough medicines could not be substantiated and the ingredients actually did nothing, it implied the same for cold and flu remedies.
It concluded yu might be better looking for alternatives as the side effects of some of the medicines are not worth the risk of you trying to get better.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Ben Reilly on Thu May 14, 2015 9:19 am

I know a lot of sleeping medications don't work at all on me. That's why I'm still up at 3:20 am Smile

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu May 14, 2015 9:24 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:I know a lot of sleeping medications don't work at all on me. That's why I'm still up at 3:20 am Smile

Well there you are then. The best thing is to work out why you can't sleep. Is it because your mind is racing and you keep thinking about problems? If so, count sheep - that will stop the other stuff. Razz

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu May 14, 2015 9:29 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Nemesis wrote:The negative effects of psychiatric drugs, including those used to treat depression and dementia, outweigh the positives, an expert on clinical trials has suggested. Professor Peter Gøtzsche, the director of the Nordic Cochrane Centre at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen, has argued that the “minimal” benefits of psychiatric drugs are not enough to justify the deaths of more than a million people aged over 65 in the Western world each year.



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/antidepressants-and-other-psychiatric-drugs-do-more-harm-than-good-says-expert-10247352.html

this seems to be happening more and more , i watched a program that seemed to shown, honey, lemon and warm water was better than any cough medicine on the shelves, it also said the claims of the cough medicines could not be substantiated and the ingredients actually did nothing, it implied the same for cold and flu remedies.
It concluded yu might be better looking for alternatives as the side effects of some of the medicines are not worth the risk of you trying to get better.

Well yes. Also, the idea of a cough is to dislodge whatever is irritating your throat or chest, so it's a good thing. The same with colds - you don't really want to repress the symptoms too much because you have them for a reason.

If it's just a tickly cough which goes on and on, I think it's OK to repress it so that it's not so much of a nuisance.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Thu May 14, 2015 9:33 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

this seems to be happening more and more , i watched a program that seemed to shown, honey, lemon and warm water was better than any cough medicine on the shelves, it also said the claims of the cough medicines could not be substantiated and the ingredients actually did nothing, it implied the same for cold and flu remedies.
It concluded yu might be better looking for alternatives as the side effects of some of the medicines are not worth the risk of you trying to get better.

Well yes. Also, the idea of a cough is to dislodge whatever is irritating your throat or chest, so it's a good thing. The same with colds - you don't really want to repress the symptoms too much because you have them for a reason.

If it's just a tickly cough which goes on and on, I think it's OK to repress it so that it's not so much of a nuisance.

I think people partly through cost reasons but only on trust issues are looking at alternative , herbal medicines... Smile

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Thu May 14, 2015 9:43 am

people with depression need to find the root cause and not just jump into taking antidepressants .

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Raggamuffin on Thu May 14, 2015 10:04 am

Vicar of Dibley wrote:people with depression need to find the root cause and not just jump into taking antidepressants .

I agree VOD. I think that drugs should not be first-line treatment, and the person should try to think about why they're depressed. If possible, more natural ways should be considered - thinks like exercise and positive thinking.

However, sometimes people get so severely depressed that they can barely function, let alone work out what's causing it, or do anything about it, and that's when drugs are extremely useful.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Thu May 14, 2015 4:02 pm

i certainly think a lot of people do need medication there is a lot of evidence many have mental problems .

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by eddie on Thu May 14, 2015 5:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:people with depression need to find the root cause and not just jump into taking antidepressants .

I agree VOD. I think that drugs should not be first-line treatment, and the person should try to think about why they're depressed. If possible, more natural ways should be considered - thinks like exercise and positive thinking.

However, sometimes people get so severely depressed that they can barely function, let alone work out what's causing it, or do anything about it, and that's when drugs are extremely useful.

Agree with you both and haven't much more to say

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Thu May 14, 2015 8:14 pm

As far as I know,I've never been depressed.What does it feel like?

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by eddie on Thu May 14, 2015 11:18 pm

Shady wrote:As far as I know,I've never been depressed.What does it feel like?

Me neither. So we should consider ourselves lucky.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Thu May 14, 2015 11:27 pm

eddie wrote:
Shady wrote:As far as I know,I've never been depressed.What does it feel like?

Me neither. So we should consider ourselves lucky.

That's true Eddie we should consider ourselves lucky.I've read about depression & it's symptoms but it would have been interesting to hear it from the horses mouth.

I'm guessing that posters here have suffered or still do suffer from depression but don't wish to talk about it.

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by eddie on Thu May 14, 2015 11:49 pm

Shady wrote:
eddie wrote:
Shady wrote:As far as I know,I've never been depressed.What does it feel like?

Me neither. So we should consider ourselves lucky.

That's true Eddie we should consider ourselves lucky.I've read about depression & it's symptoms but it would have been interesting to hear it from the horses mouth.

I'm guessing that posters here have suffered or still do suffer from depression but don't wish to talk about it.


I don't know anyone on here suffered from depression.
But I do know that some of them need to get a bloody life outside this forum.

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eddie
king of beards. Keeper of the Whip. head cook and bottle washer. Senior mushroom muncher

Posts : 32430
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 47
Location : England

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

Post by Guest on Fri May 15, 2015 12:10 am

eddie wrote:
Shady wrote:

That's true Eddie we should consider ourselves lucky.I've read about depression & it's symptoms but it would have been interesting to hear it from the horses mouth.

I'm guessing that posters here have suffered or still do suffer from depression but don't wish to talk about it.


I don't know anyone on here suffered from depression.
But I do know that some of them need to get a bloody life outside this forum.

That's very true Eddie.

Now who shall we start with first?.........

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Re: Anti-depressants and other psychiatric drugs do more harm than good, says expert

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