Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Frazzled on Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:08 am

That is a situation too awful to consider, but I don't buy it.
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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Lone Wolf on Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:01 am

Cool

JUST blow the crap out of them, and be done with it...

IT'S the politics that's allowing this whole situation to escalate..
Those thug's will keep on abducting and murdering their victims ad infinitum, if they're not exterminated as soon as possible. ::lightsab::

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:19 am

@LW
Agree
Too much Talking we need to bite the bullet and Go in there and take them out.
We cant deal with them, we can deal with other less extreme groups.

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:11 am

America will not go in there.  The first and primary reason has nothing to do with religion or the politics of the region.

The Republican Congress will not vote the war funds necessary, nor will it vote authorization to conduct war activities in Syria (Congress voted in favor of a war in Iraq back in the GWB administration, and that is the authorization the Obama administration is operating under today to bomb in Iraq).

To vote the funds and authorization necessary would make Obama immensely popular, and that the Republicans could not stand.  It is contrary to the McConnell-Boehner doctrine (pass no bills that allow the Opposition to govern).

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:30 am

@Quill
Yes but Aussie like to clean up their mess.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/glaust/

Tony "Bomber" Bower-Miles was a young engineer in the Australian Army when he first went to Vietnam in the late 1960's. Land mines, in particular US made M16 anti-personnel mines, were one of the major threats faced by our troops, and much of Bomber's work involved cleaning up their aftermath along with other explosive ordnance devices (EOD's) positioned by the enemy and used to great effect against Australian troops.

In 2001, Bomber returned to South East Asia, putting his minefield breaching and clearance skills to work in the task of locating and destroying some of the 4 to 6 million land mines that still contaminate Cambodia. On a shoestring budget, Bomber established the Vietnam Veterans' Mine Clearing Team. In early 2008 the Vietnam Veterans Mine Clearing Team - Cambodia Inc was registered as an incorporated entity in Queensland. (IA:36313) and registered with the Australian Government Business Register (ABN. 22 868 580 912). It is also a registered Charity in Queensland.

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/tackling-explosive-issue

Australia is proud to be a long-term supporter of mine action in Cambodia.

Since 1994, it has contributed more than A$97 million to support Cambodia’s efforts to clear contam-inated land, educate people about the risks and assist the survivors.

Australia is currently supporting Cambodia’s mine-action efforts through the multi-donor Clearing for Results project.

Now in its second phase (2011-2015), this project is facilitated by the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) and managed and implemented by the Cambodian Mine Action and Victim Assistance Authority (CMAA).

It is also funded by Austria, Belgium, Canada, France, Ireland, Norway, the UK and the UNDP.

we see USA, as so often, are missing from the list to clean up the Mess left from the Vietnam war and the CIA fighting the 'commies' of South east Asia....
Just because the USA is lacking in morals doesn't mean the rest of the world should be.

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:03 am

veya_victaous wrote:@Quill
Yes but Aussie like to clean up their mess.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/glaust/

Tony "Bomber" Bower-Miles was a young engineer in the Australian Army when he first went to Vietnam in the late 1960's. Land mines, in particular US made M16 anti-personnel mines, were one of the major threats faced by our troops, and much of Bomber's work involved cleaning up their aftermath along with other explosive ordnance devices (EOD's) positioned by the enemy and used to great effect against Australian troops.

In 2001, Bomber returned to South East Asia, putting his minefield breaching and clearance skills to work in the task of locating and destroying some of the 4 to 6 million land mines that still contaminate Cambodia. On a shoestring budget, Bomber established the Vietnam Veterans' Mine Clearing Team. In early 2008 the Vietnam Veterans Mine Clearing Team - Cambodia Inc was registered as an incorporated entity in Queensland. (IA:36313) and registered with the Australian Government Business Register (ABN. 22 868 580 912). It is also a registered Charity in Queensland.

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/tackling-explosive-issue

Australia is proud to be a long-term supporter of mine action in Cambodia.

Since 1994, it has contributed more than A$97 million to support Cambodia’s efforts to clear contam-inated land, educate people about the risks and assist the survivors.

Australia is currently supporting Cambodia’s mine-action efforts through the multi-donor Clearing for Results project.

Now in its second phase (2011-2015), this project is facilitated by the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) and managed and implemented by the Cambodian Mine Action and Victim Assistance Authority (CMAA).

It is also funded by Austria, Belgium, Canada, France, Ireland, Norway, the UK and the UNDP.

we see USA, as so often, are missing from the list to clean up the Mess left from the Vietnam war and the CIA fighting the 'commies' of South east Asia....
Just because the USA is lacking in morals doesn't mean the rest of the world should be.

It's all in the way you frame your argument, veya.  There is no mess that wasn't always there.  To deny that is to say that you approved of Saddam Hussein and the Taliban.

But I'm not here to argue any of that...those were Republicans.  The point is that the Republican Congress is so dysfunctional that it couldn't get any bill passed...let alone a war powers measure.

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:19 am

@Quill
Umm I did approve of Saddam.... He was secular Neutral

And also the 'mess'... I'll think you will find the Land mines weren't there until the USA either Buried them or Started selling them in the region Wink

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:41 am

veya_victaous wrote:@Quill
Umm I did approve of Saddam.... He was secular Neutral

And also the 'mess'... I'll think you will find the Land mines weren't there until the USA either Buried them or Started selling them in the region Wink


You approved of a tyrant that gassed the Kurds and butchered any opposition to his rule?

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:39 pm

veya_victaous wrote:@Quill
Umm I did approve of Saddam.... He was secular Neutral

And also the 'mess'... I'll think you will find the Land mines weren't there until the USA either Buried them or Started selling them in the region Wink

If you were a Saddamist, you've got your own explaining to do.

But I'm not here to argue that part of the discussion. The one's responsible were Republicans. They are not Americans.

However, Republicans are in control of the Congress today and the same dysfunction can be expected. They will be unable to get their act together sufficiently to pass a war powers and/or war funding bill. Hence you won't see more than a couple of drones out of the US.

It's a matter of fact, not debate. You are on your own Europe.

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Original Quill wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:@Quill
Umm I did approve of Saddam.... He was secular Neutral

And also the 'mess'... I'll think you will find the Land mines weren't there until the USA either Buried them or Started selling them in the region Wink

If you were a Saddamist, you've got your own explaining to do.

But I'm not here to argue that part of the discussion.  The one's responsible were Republicans.  They are not Americans.

However, Republicans are in control of the Congress today and the same dysfunction can be expected.  They will be unable to get their act together sufficiently to pass a war powers and/or war funding bill.  Hence you won't see more than a couple of drones out of the US.

It's a matter of fact, not debate.  You are on your own Europe.


Well, that will be good news if it is just Europe, with no doubt doing a much better job, where America always tends to screw things up.
Also if Republicans voted against any such action, it would be a blunder on their part and cost them the next elections, being as the majority of Americans support action in both Syria and Iraq.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/09/174310-new-poll-americans-want-war-isis-4-1-margin/


Also many Brits back action:

http://rt.com/uk/184768-britain-military-action-isis/

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:42 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

If you were a Saddamist, you've got your own explaining to do.

But I'm not here to argue that part of the discussion.  The one's responsible were Republicans.  They are not Americans.

However, Republicans are in control of the Congress today and the same dysfunction can be expected.  They will be unable to get their act together sufficiently to pass a war powers and/or war funding bill.  Hence you won't see more than a couple of drones out of the US.

It's a matter of fact, not debate.  You are on your own Europe.


Well, that will be good news if it is just Europe, with no doubt doing a much better job, where America always tends to screw things up.
Also if Republicans voted against any such action, it would be a blunder on their part and cost them the next elections, being as the majority of Americans support action in both Syria and Iraq.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/09/174310-new-poll-americans-want-war-isis-4-1-margin/


Also many Brits back action:

http://rt.com/uk/184768-britain-military-action-isis/

It will be a bit of a change, Didge.  Not since the Falklands war have Americans been able to sit back and enjoy the show over dinner on the 6 PM News.

This is yet another comical consequence of the Republican disarray.  Their prime motive is to make President Obama fail, and if they made a war hero of him they would utterly shoot themselves in the foot.  They have focused in on not supporting or funding anything that he supports, especially if it raises taxes.  A war funding measure would most certainly not only raise taxes, but contribute to greater national long-term debt.

I'm not a big fan of war, torture and killing anyway.  So think of what a joyful time I will be having, watching Republicans squirm under this one.  Obama is personally against these wars in the Middle East.  Now, all he does is raise his hands and say, What could I do...Republicans wouldn't vote for it?













Last edited by Original Quill on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


Well, that will be good news if it is just Europe, with no doubt doing a much better job, where America always tends to screw things up.
Also if Republicans voted against any such action, it would be a blunder on their part and cost them the next elections, being as the majority of Americans support action in both Syria and Iraq.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/09/174310-new-poll-americans-want-war-isis-4-1-margin/


Also many Brits back action:

http://rt.com/uk/184768-britain-military-action-isis/

It will be a bit of a change, Didge.  Not since the Falklands war have Americans been able to sit back and enjoy the show over dinner on the 6 PM News.

This is yet another comical consequence of the Republican disarray.  Their prime motive is to make President Obama fail, and if they made a war hero of him they would utterly shoot themselves in the foot.  They have focused in on not supporting or funding anything that he supports, especially if it raises taxes.  A war funding measure would most certainly not only raise taxes, but contribute to greater national long-term debt.

I'm not a big fan of war, torture and killing anyway.  So think of what a joyful time I will be having, watching Republicans squirm under this one.  Obama is personally against these wars in the Middle East.  Now, all he does is raise his hands and say, What could I do...Republicans wouldn't vote for it?















I think the Republicans will vote for support in action there, they have too much to lose if they do not and Obama is not going to run for a third term now is he.
Too may people are concerned about ISIS ad public opinion can be very persuasive, which I do not think the Republicans would gamble on, as it would be the perfect ammunition against them, if they failed to bacl.

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:55 pm

Didge wrote:I think the Republicans will vote for support in action there, they have too much to lose if they do not and Obama is not going to run for a third term now is he.
Too may people are concerned about ISIS ad public opinion can be very persuasive, which I do not think the Republicans would gamble on, as it would be the perfect ammunition against them, if they failed to bacl.

Except...they will have to go through the legislative process.  Are you aware of how many spending proposals the Democrats will load up on such a bill?

The reason why Republicans don't want to participate in legislation at all, is they will have to get back into the compromise business.  It will run against everything they stand for.


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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:40 pm

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:@Quill
Umm I did approve of Saddam.... He was secular Neutral

And also the 'mess'... I'll think you will find the Land mines weren't there until the USA either Buried them or Started selling them in the region Wink


You approved of a tyrant that gassed the Kurds and butchered any opposition to his rule?

Better than ISIS Rolling Eyes

I Don't think he was good but I can admit that IF I were in His position I would not have acted much different as there are numerous regional factors in play that makes the use of violence a necessary policy.

I generally approve because
He was an educator, the only actual record he holds his employing the most teachers in a single initiative.
He was secular, which I believe the issues in the middle east can only be resolved by there being Strong Secular nations in the middle east.

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:42 pm

Original Quill wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:@Quill
Umm I did approve of Saddam.... He was secular Neutral

And also the 'mess'... I'll think you will find the Land mines weren't there until the USA either Buried them or Started selling them in the region Wink

If you were a Saddamist, you've got your own explaining to do.

But I'm not here to argue that part of the discussion.  The one's responsible were Republicans.  They are not Americans.

However, Republicans are in control of the Congress today and the same dysfunction can be expected.  They will be unable to get their act together sufficiently to pass a war powers and/or war funding bill.  Hence you won't see more than a couple of drones out of the US.

It's a matter of fact, not debate.  You are on your own Europe.

WTF Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad Mad We are not part of Europe

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:00 am

@Quill
I can see your argument
but I think there are a few Factors you are not taking into consideration.

If the UK and Australia were to go in and we really wanted you there too we would blitz your media. keep in mind Australia and UK have more Hollywood celebrities per capita than the USA. Australia has joined you every time you have asked since WW2....
Imagine a Background real Listing the many Engagements Australia and UK have come when requested by the USA, with Henry Cavill as Superman, Christian Bale as Batman, Ioan Gruffudd as Reed Richards and Andrew Garfield as Spiderman Chris Hemsworth as Thor and Hugh Jackman as Wolverine all making an impassioned plea For America to look into their hearts.... and be the Hero...

Republican Arguments will sound a lot more sensible when Even Iggy Azalea is Calling Obama a coward Rolling Eyes

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:45 am

http://www.news.com.au/national/majority-of-australians-support-military-intervention-against-isis-newspoll-reveals/story-fncynjr2-1227052193867

The latest Newspoll reveals the majority of Australians support the federal government’s decision to provide humanitarian aid and weapons - including 50 tonnes of small arms and ammunition - to forces opposing Islamic State (otherwise known as ISIS or ISIL) militants.

Just over three out of five Australians are “personally in favour” of Australia providing assistance.

Conducted at the weekend and published in The Australian, the poll of 1207 people revealed that 62 per cent of voters supported the action taken so far by the Abbott government, which has involved humanitarian aid drops, as well as shipments of weapons and ammunition.

25 per cent were opposed and 13 per cent remain uncommitted.

70 per cent of men supported government action compared to 54 per cent of women


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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:40 am

veya_victaous wrote:@Quill
I can see your argument
but I think there are a few Factors you are not taking into consideration.

If the UK and Australia were to go in and we really wanted you there too we would blitz your media. keep in mind Australia and UK have more Hollywood celebrities per capita than the USA. Australia has joined you every time you have asked since WW2....
Imagine a Background real Listing the many Engagements Australia and UK have come when requested by the USA, with Henry Cavill as Superman, Christian Bale as Batman, Ioan Gruffudd as Reed Richards and Andrew Garfield as Spiderman Chris Hemsworth as Thor and Hugh Jackman as Wolverine all making an impassioned plea For America to look into their hearts.... and be the Hero...

Republican Arguments will sound a lot more sensible when Even Iggy Azalea is Calling Obama a coward Rolling Eyes

You could never outplay GWB. Lol. The American public will never stand for it again...or at least for a long, long, long time. He has ruined all media blitzes.

BTW, if y'all are so good at media blitzes, couldja turn the House of Representatives around this November?



I thot not.

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Re: Reasons NOT to go to War with ISIS

Post by veya_victaous on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:54 am

LOLZ
you think they wouldn't.... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

We are not 'good' at media blitzes no better than the US that uses it all the time because it is so effective even today On Every policy...

IF the the rest of the West Decided too we could convince the USA that Obama made them look like cowards with small penises and the need to Vote for Anyone else to end the shame Obama is is causing Pulling our early and running away leaving the real men to finish Business where the USA had to run away. Obama Is not in the lead by Much at all, it would take very little to tip the balance of power back to the right. All those rednecks will be up in arms and in the voting both about the Muslim Nigerian Making the USA look like Cowards Backstabbing White Christians to Support his Muslim Brothers in ISIS.

Batman WILL have literally told them so.

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