Why must we be......

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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:58 pm

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Better than them??

all across so many threads. about ISIS we keep seeing the words "we must be better than them" or "we must not stoop to their level"

the bleatings of those already beaten and preparing their own eulogy "I was better than you"

cowards and defeatists all

why the hell NOT fight fire with fire...if we HAVE to fight em with boots on the ground then relieve our fighters of ALL responsibility to the enemy period...no quarter no mercy and most certainly NO prisoners...UNTIL THEY learn to act a little civilised and respect human rights /geneva convention rules. IF they want to fight according to "allahs" rules then fine...and so should we...The we=st has the mightiest armies going and is crippled into helplesness in the face of savages....you couldnt make it up.....

and all with the encouragement, indeed coersion of the lefty defeatists and "peaceniks" who would sooner sell tgheir children into slavery of some islamic vson of hell than stand up and kick brutality in the bollocks first...

there is a simple change to the "golden rule".....do unto others as they would do unto you.....but do it first

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Post by veya_victaous on Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:50 am

You Ability to Count is Appalling

You don't understand that YOU are a COWARD and ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. WE Will never win if we listen to your opinion because you are just as bad. Again the USA blows up women and children with flying robots, IDF blows up women and children all the fucking time they will happily kill 3 children to get one potential terrorist.

We will have the NEXT ISIS by following your suggestion because At YOUR HEART YOU ARE THE SAME. Until You Treat People EQUALLY we will have problems, we will have more problems being cowards that are so shit sacred we want to break the Geneva conventions to deal with a Minuscule problem.

I am Not Defending ISIS and Have supported Calls for my nations Soldiers to Go in and be boots on the ground. I call for ISIS to be destroyed Because the Are in such Breach of the Geneva convention and...
IF YOU PURPOSELY BREAK THE GENEVA CONVENTION TOO then you deserve the same destruction.

and the Actions of the USA is not My Issue it it ISIS's issue, in fact it is half the fucking terrorist groups issue because they have had friends and family turned into 'Collateral damage' let alone the fact that USA does inflict 'rulers' on them for the specific purpose of oppressing them.
If You don't even know the basic motivator of the extremists in the region, why are you so pessimistic about our ability to beat them!! Obviously You have to 'know your enemy' and YOU DON'T!!! you have not the faintest clue about their mindset. so obviously your strategy is ridiculous. Which It is ridiculous!!! to suggest that we may need to stoop to such low level to beat them. I think that if you even suggest in the slightest we might not have the capacity to beat them fairly while maintaining Geneva conventions YOU ARE THE WORST MILITARY Strategist in Fucking history. even if it were JUST UK USA and Australia..... "oh no we only have approximately 40 times the number of troops which are also vastly better equipped. 100's of times more heavy weaponry, tanks and war planes.. the situation is hopeless"
Didge IT is you don't even understand the problem and you are Epically SHIT a tactics as has been made VERY apparent by your opinion. So stop lecturing people because You know Shit all, you are cowardice is pathetic, you strategy is that of a Coward and an Evil coward that Should be destroyed JUST LIKE ISIS.
YOU want to live under ISIS!!! I don't want to live under a leadership that breaks the Geneva convention.. You do!!! so therefore you not only support their actions more than me. you want Your nation to do the same(or at least keep the option open).

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Post by Guest on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:29 am

veya_victaous wrote:You Ability to Count is Appalling

You don't understand that YOU are a COWARD and ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.  WE Will never win if we listen to your opinion because you are just as bad. Again the USA blows up women and children with flying robots, IDF blows up women and children all the fucking time they will happily kill 3 children to get one potential terrorist.
oh dear you are one complete moron as seen as I keep having to educate you on history, being as we have used your method for over 10 years and it has utterly failed as I keep explaining to you. The IDF targets military targets, warns civilians, and they do not leave and then they end up dead or injured, because Hamas places weapons within civillian areas. Again in WW2, they did not shy away from bombing and shelling civilian areas to take out military targets, that is called war, when you have someone firing and attacking you, which is why you failed to understand warfare, It is the lefty wet fish approach that seems to think this is wrong and people are stupid enough to stay when warned, then that is their own failing. Again nobody has ever claimed we committed war crimes to Italian, German, French etc who were collateral victims of war




We will have the NEXT ISIS by following your suggestion because At YOUR HEART YOU ARE THE SAME. Until You Treat People EQUALLY we will have problems, we will have more problems being cowards that are so shit sacred we want to break the Geneva conventions to deal with a Minuscule problem.
Really, we have had extremist groups that have sprung up like Boko Haram, with no attacks on them, showing how completely out of touch with reality you are and in fact it is because of how we fight with one hand tied behind our backs restricted by rules, that we are not only seen as weak but it provides the enemy with an advantage, and if you have ever studied war that is tactical blunder. You want to give respect to evil scum, who have no respect for the quality of life in the first place, being as war people kill each other and you get squeamish over executing them, how pathetic, no doubt you would wave flowers in the hope the sword does not come and swipe your head off you are so naive. They deserve utterly now compliance to the Geneva convention, of which they certainly are nothing more than murderes

I am Not Defending ISIS and Have supported Calls for my nations Soldiers to Go in and be boots on the ground. I call for ISIS to be destroyed Because the Are in such Breach of the Geneva convention  and...
IF YOU PURPOSELY BREAK THE GENEVA CONVENTION TOO then you deserve the same destruction.
You are defending them, because you think by arresting them, where they return to Britain where we already have a major problems with radicalization within our jails is going to make the problem go away, in fact it helps make it grow, placing the UK under greater threat, they do not deserve life, but death, they choose this evil path and thus those who live by the sword will die by them

and the Actions of the USA is not My Issue it it ISIS's issue, in fact it is half the fucking terrorist groups issue because they have had friends and family turned into 'Collateral damage' let alone the fact that USA does inflict 'rulers' on them for the specific purpose of oppressing them.
Well that is very clueless, these terrorists are killing many Muslims and Christians in the main and I am sure they will be thankful to hear your views how you perceptive them as no threat, being as they have displaced over a million being many of which have little food, where they have executed thousands, of course this is no bother to an ignorant Wombat




If You don't even know the basic motivator of the extremists in the region, why are you so pessimistic about our ability to beat them!!  Obviously You have to 'know your enemy' and YOU DON'T!!! you have not the faintest clue about their mindset. so obviously your strategy is ridiculous. Which It is ridiculous!!! to suggest that we may need to stoop to such low level to beat them. I think that if you even suggest in the slightest we might not have the capacity to beat them fairly while maintaining Geneva conventions YOU ARE THE WORST MILITARY Strategist in Fucking history. even if it were JUST UK USA and Australia..... "oh no we only have approximately 40 times the number of troops which are also vastly better equipped. 100's of times more heavy weaponry, tanks and war planes.. the situation is hopeless"  
Man this is has to be the biggest load of lefty bullshit I have ever heard, I am not saying we stoop to any other method than we have used before, which show you have not the first clue about warfare, nobody is suggesting we murder women or children as they showing there is no comparison to what I am stating at all, which is their execution by special forces, as after all we are at war with them, which the goal in war is to defeat your enemy by any means


Didge IT is you don't even understand the problem and you are Epically SHIT a tactics as has been made VERY apparent by your opinion. So stop lecturing people because You know Shit all, you are cowardice is pathetic, you strategy is that of a Coward and an Evil coward that Should be destroyed JUST LIKE ISIS.
YOU want to live under ISIS!!! I don't want to live under a leadership that breaks the Geneva convention.. You do!!! so therefore you not only support their actions more than me.  you want Your nation to do the same(or at least keep the option open).


Actually I have qualification in this, you have fuck all except the ability to google, not even in the same league sunshine

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:04 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Cass wrote:going back to a post of Ben's about Biden.....I agree in theory it sounds good but nothing concrete will happen unless the Arab countries fully participate and also stop funding them and stop allowing them to set up camps etc...but that ain't going to happen anytime soon.
realistically what will really happen? the whole region has been in uproar for thousands of years and my guess is that it will continue till the end of time.
region was fine until WW1 and the fall of the Ottoman empire Suspect Suspect Suspect
And I'm guessing they will take seriously requests to stop funding terrorist when the USA and others also take seriously the idea of not funding terrorists?? Suspect Suspect Suspect
pot calling the kettle black really, the 2 biggest funding of terrorists comes from the USA and Russia has been for 50 years. No No
the Whole Middle east funds terrorist argument is really quite Bullshit, not saying they don't, but USA literally provides TAX BREAKS for it own companies that fund terrorists in the Middle East, South America and Africa. let alone the LONG LONG history of the CIA doing exactly that too, and no official effort has ever been made to Stop the CIA funding terrorists.
Despite what Didge thinks...
You cant expect the others to not commit the crimes, that you are only too willing to commit against them.
In fact half the problem is that the USA(and west) has been doing these despicable things in other nations, so there is A LOT of negativity in those nations towards the USA.


The ottoman regime was involved in countless wars and acts of aggression before ww1.

They joined in against us in ww1.
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Post by Cass on Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:55 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Cass wrote:victor please stop with the name calling thanks.
ok I'll edit them to merely tell it how it is.....
despite what you think victor, no one here is showing a white flag. we all want IS eradicated. its how we go about it that is being discussed. just because my or others ways /opinions differ from yours in no way deserves your insinuations.

as one person who lost people in these recent conflicts I don't want to see other families go through the pain and suffering that lasts a lifetime UNTIL there is a clear and decisive plan of attack AND a proper exit strategy. No country at this time can afford to get bogged down in a long, costly, dangerous occupation - as well as it not working out apart from Bosnia /Kosovo and even then lessons were not learned.

Didge the point you make about Heydrich is fairly moot. There were formal declarations of War in place, the country was being illegally occupied by a foreignovernment and their sovereign status was nullified. He was killed by the Czech underground. At that point the Allies had no reliable way of passing intell or supplies to them. they knew there would be some sort od retaliation but not to what extent. It didn't achieve much good as it gave Hitler and Himmler another great propaganda tool and the the justification for the Wanasee Conference and and the start of the killing camps in Op Heydrich. it brought terrible suffering death and more oppression to the Czech people for another 4 years. Hardly a success. I don't want this to happen to us or to the other countries' innocent civilians and that is what will happen if the west intervenes without the backing and full support of the Arab countries - the West cannot continue to play the heavy and do all the dirty work alone otherwise we are doomed to failure and yet more groups will spring up - although morally we owe them something since WE created the vacuum that allowed IS to gain strength.

Veya - Tommy is right....the Ottoman Empire caused lots of troubles throughout the centuries to the West.

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Post by Guest on Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:11 pm

Cass wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:
ok I'll edit them to merely tell it how it is.....
despite what you think victor, no one here is showing a white flag. we all want IS eradicated. its how we go about it that is being discussed. just because my or others ways /opinions differ from yours in no way deserves your insinuations.

as one person who lost people in these recent conflicts I don't want to see other families go through the pain and suffering that lasts a lifetime UNTIL there is a clear and decisive plan of attack AND a proper exit strategy. No country at this time can afford to get bogged down in a long, costly, dangerous occupation - as well as it not working out apart from Bosnia /Kosovo and even then lessons were not learned.

Didge the point you make about Heydrich is fairly moot. There were formal declarations of War in place, the country was being illegally occupied by a foreignovernment and their sovereign status was nullified. He was killed by the Czech underground. At that point the Allies had no reliable way of passing intell or supplies to them. they knew there would be some sort od retaliation but not to what extent. It didn't achieve much good as it gave Hitler and Himmler another great propaganda tool and the the justification for the Wanasee Conference and and the start of the killing camps in Op Heydrich. it brought terrible suffering death and more oppression to the Czech people for another 4 years. Hardly a success. I don't want this to happen to us or to the other countries' innocent civilians and that is what will happen if the west intervenes without the backing and full support of the Arab countries - the West cannot continue to play the heavy and do all the dirty work alone otherwise we are doomed to failure and yet more groups will spring up - although morally we owe them something since WE created the vacuum that allowed IS to gain strength.

Veya - Tommy is right....the Ottoman Empire caused lots of troubles throughout the centuries to the West.


It is not moot at all what it shows is your lack of understanding of warfare and strategies in the need to make difficult decisions and where we have had to make decisions which would be construed by you and others as against the Geneva convention and to claim no declaration of war is also completely wrong as they have declared war, being as they are murdering American citizens, let alone murdering many people in Ira, to the point we have citizens from our own nation who have betrayed this nation to commit genocide. It did bring terrible suffering but the strategic aim was met, by those underground operatives trained and sent in by the British to stop the collaboration of the Nation which was helping the German war effort, this is why you are failing to look at this from a military view point but an emotive one. Sadly again difficult decisions are required in war, many of them. Many innocent civilians died in WW2, like again with the dropping of the two atomic bombs, Japan perceived estimates of 20 million dead from an invasion, and one million allied soldiers estimated from the allies, which in the bigger scheme of things millions of lives were saved from dropping the bombs, yes tens of thousand dies but millions were saved, because it forced Japan to surrender knowing they would lose millions without any invasion, it also shortened the war. You have to understand civilians are a casualty of war, like many Europeans were due to the offensives carried out by the allies alone, if they had been squeamish over not trying to target areas that had civilians the Germans would have used this to their advantage and placed themselves within all civilian areas, thus prolonging the war for years. Again you are not looking at this from a tactical view point on what is the most achievable way to defeat such an enemy, who to not care for the sanctity of life.

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Post by Cass on Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:30 pm

it was not successful as it didn't lead to a mass uprising of the Czech people which was the whole purpose - on the contrary it led to massive suffering.

anyway I don't claim to be a military tactician - never have - let me repeat THERE IS NO FORMAL DECLARATION OF WAR - it is state sponsored terrorism by the very States where IS has taken hold. unless they fully cooperate then anything that we do will be shortlived and in 5 years time it will be back to chaos.

The beheading of James Foley was horrific and barbaric but those are the risks you take if you go to danger zones.

as to citizens of UK/US going to join IS? That has always been the case whereby someone who is utterly convinced of his causes righteousness will willingly die for it. you cant really legislate against that apart from treason laws about fighting for other foreign powers.

anyway I'm about done with this. ive said my piece but will continue to look in.

ive got to go for harrassment training Rolling Eyes - although as Mr C. says I dint need any more training ..... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes ha ha......he gets bread n water for dinner tonight.

byesss x

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Post by Guest on Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:38 pm

Cass wrote:it was not successful as it didn't lead to a mass uprising of the Czech people which was the whole purpose - on the contrary it led to massive suffering.

anyway I don't claim to be a military tactician - never have - let me repeat THERE IS NO FORMAL DECLARATION OF WAR - it is state sponsored terrorism by the very States where IS has taken hold. unless they fully cooperate then anything that we do will be shortlived and in 5 years time it will be back to chaos.

The beheading of James Foley was horrific and barbaric but those are the risks you take if you go to danger zones.

as to citizens of UK/US going to join IS? That has always been the case whereby someone who is utterly convinced of his causes righteousness will willingly die for it. you cant really legislate against that apart from treason laws about fighting for other foreign powers.

anyway I'm about done with this. ive said my piece but will continue to look in.

ive got to go for harrassment training Rolling Eyes - although as Mr C. says I dint need any more training ..... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes ha ha......he gets bread n water for dinner tonight.

byesss x


Incorrect it was a success because the output of production decreased and the collaboration dramatically decreased, thus tactically it was the correct decision.
Islamic extremists have been targeting the west since troops first entered Saudi soil in the first Iraq war,which to them was seen as a massive insult along side support to Israel, led to Al Qaeda attacking America, where bases were formed in Afghanistan to train terrorists to attack America with threats to continue to do so unless support of Israel stopped and troops were pulled out. IS are an offshoot of Al Qaeda, which its intent is global domination, to claim there is no declaration of war, when we have been at war with Islamic terrorism for decades, is misguided cass. Nobody denies the many mistakes like the second invasion of Iraq, but those failings are responsible now for the plight of the people of Iraq, thus we have a responsibility and duty to help correct the mistakes of the second Iraq war and I fail to see why the west should bow down to threats. Again I am looking at this as Victor has done to look at the best ways to defeat an enemy, that has no care for the sanctity of life who have clear intentions to also attack the west through trained terrorist and it is really poor to just sit back and wait for this to happen, you have to strike at the head of the problem, before that problem becomes so uncontrollable, that we are facing a similar campaign in Britain that we faced with the IRA bombing campaign, though I doubt there will be any warnings issued by IS.



Take care Me lady

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:02 pm

Cass, you said "I don't want to see other families go through the pain and suffering that lasts a lifetime UNTIL there is a clear and decisive plan of attack AND a proper exit strategy.".



Problem is by doing nothing, other families are suffering the brutality of ISIS every day.



I didn't support the war in Iraq or Afghanistan but I sure do support some action now against ISIS and their barbarity.



We need a multi national force under the umbrella of UN control to go in, take out ISIS and establish peace and security for the future when a proper national security force can be re-established and handed over control.


We will need to then draw back into safe zones to keep a presence and back up the security until an appropriate time to withdraw more thoroughly.



But of need to start doing something now.

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