Why must we be......

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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

Better than them??

all across so many threads. about ISIS we keep seeing the words "we must be better than them" or "we must not stoop to their level"

the bleatings of those already beaten and preparing their own eulogy "I was better than you"

cowards and defeatists all

why the hell NOT fight fire with fire...if we HAVE to fight em with boots on the ground then relieve our fighters of ALL responsibility to the enemy period...no quarter no mercy and most certainly NO prisoners...UNTIL THEY learn to act a little civilised and respect human rights /geneva convention rules. IF they want to fight according to "allahs" rules then fine...and so should we...The we=st has the mightiest armies going and is crippled into helplesness in the face of savages....you couldnt make it up.....

and all with the encouragement, indeed coersion of the lefty defeatists and "peaceniks" who would sooner sell tgheir children into slavery of some islamic vson of hell than stand up and kick brutality in the bollocks first...

there is a simple change to the "golden rule".....do unto others as they would do unto you.....but do it first

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:54 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:

Nope, I am saying he will not with IS.

I see you again avoid all points with more poor deflection.

Good.

But I'm saying Obama should. Just like most if not all us presidents since the one who supposedly coined the phrase "we do not negotiate with terrorists", Ronald Reagan.

Even GW "you're either with us or against us" Bush negotiated with terrorists.



Which proves my point, many have negotiated with terrorists, to their own failing, because as seen such policies are poor, the right way is one of isolating such groups, and not giving them the recognition they are craving.

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:59 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


Incorrect again, I am showing you a difficult tactical decision, not once have I stated to nuke the middle east, but you do poorly try to twist something when I am trying to educate you.
Well do the maths, 20 million Japanese lives and a million allied service men were saved for the cost of tens of thousands of civilians.
Collateral damage and proves that it is you ruled by emotions on war and not Victor and I

Nothing wrong with being emotional. It's when your emotions make you so irrational that you believe fallacies to be logical conclusions. That's the trap you and victor have fallen into, deep.

You still haven't explained what stated you would use and why it would contravene international law.

We have all given you examples how we can defeat isis without breaking any laws or diminishing our humanity.


Incorrect again, you are allowing emotions to deter making the correct tactical decisions, as seen, you are concerned about all life, where in a strategic view point loss of life is inevitable and counted as a necessity of need to win a conflict. To be restrained as you are by emotions is why a conflict can be lost, as it has been the case where allied troops have been constrained by an out dated Geneva convention, which never had any conception of the types of enemies being faced today.
Your examples all show why the extremists have thrived and not be beaten, thus the tactics and thinking you and some others believe in are doomed to fail.

Cannot understand your second sentence, it makes no sense

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:03 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:



Which proves my point, many have negotiated with terrorists, to their own failing, because as seen such policies are poor, the right way is one of isolating such groups, and not giving them the recognition they are craving.

But it doesn't make a difference either way. Do you really think terrorists care if we negotiate the lives of hostages or not? As we have seen to our detriment, they can use hostages in other barbaric ways to further their cause.

My way, those journalists are back with their families and we gain intelligence from the information the hostages can give us.


You are really fooled to believe that the lives of some journalists are going to make any difference, in the tactical scheme of things, when you fail to understand it shows a weakness to negotiate with groups that have no compassion or care for human rights. Their means is to instill fear, as seen by using a powerful message of chopping off the head of a victim, by giving into such fear, they win, which is where you get things wrong Zack, because fear is the driving factor for capitulating to negotiate

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:06 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


Incorrect again, you are allowing emotions to deter making the correct tactical decisions, as seen, you are concerned about all life, where in a strategic view point loss of life is inevitable and counted as a necessity of need to win a conflict. To be restrained as you are by emotions is why a conflict can be lost, as it has been the case where allied troops have been constrained by an out dated Geneva convention, which never had any conception of the types of enemies being faced today.
Your examples all show why the extremists have thrived and not be beaten, thus the tactics and thinking you and some others believe in are doomed to fail.

Cannot understand your second sentence, it makes no sense

You still haven't explained what STRATEGIES you would use and why it would contravene international law?



If you read back I certainly have, one of which is no quarter given to extremist groups, you isolate them by doing this, where we have faced such extremism again, where troops were willing to fight until the death. Look at WW2, it mattered not using conventional means, where in fact the Americans with the Japanese had to ignore the Geneva convention countless times when dealing with them, which is clearly lost on you.

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:11 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


You are really fooled to believe that the lives of some journalists are going to make any difference, in the tactical scheme of things, when you fail to understand it shows a weakness to negotiate with groups that have no compassion or care for human rights. Their means is to instill fear, as seen by using a powerful message of chopping off the head of a victim, by giving into such fear, they win, which is where you get things wrong Zack, because fear is the driving factor for capitulating to negotiate

No tactical advantage?

The freed French hostage has helped to identify Foley's killer. I'm sure he has more information. Crucial to mounting a legal military challenge, if required.


Helped?

News to me, when they are unsure who did kill him.
You do realise SAS teams are in their trying to find the killer and no doubt to execute as it should be the case and we need to unleash our special forces to carry out such executions, it will drive fear into them.

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:14 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


Helped?

News to me, when they are unsure who did kill him.
You do realise SAS teams are in their trying to find the killer and no doubt to execute as it should be the case and we need to unleash our special forces to carry out such executions, it will drive fear into them.

Look it up. It's in the media.



http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/25/james-foley-murder-video-_n_5707287.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:18 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:



If you read back I certainly have, one of which is no quarter given to extremist groups, you isolate them by doing this, where we have faced such extremism again, where troops were willing to fight until the death. Look at WW2, it mattered not using conventional means, where in fact the Americans with the Japanese had to ignore the Geneva convention countless times when dealing with them, which is clearly lost on you.

Surely you understand 'no quarter to extremist groups' and 'isolate' is a subjective strategy.

I want to know your objective strategy?

I've stated mine - not great and perhaps a work in progress but it was objective.

Without knowing your objective stategy, how do we know it would break international law?


It is subjective but also breaks international law, I am all for hit squads to go in and hit them and take them out as this will be demoralizing, to wake each day to find their troops executed, which has been used before. As seen like we took out Bin laden, you use fear also as a tactic to attack the enemy with, and I do not just mean IS, but those that fund them, which means business people, hate preachers etc as well, in other words civillians

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:26 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


It is subjective but also breaks international law, I am all for hit squads to go in and hit them and take them out as this will be demoralizing, to wake each day to find their troops executed, which has been used before. As seen like we took out Bin laden, you use fear also as a tactic to attack the enemy with, and I do not just mean IS, but those that fund them, which means business people as well, in other words civillians

"it's subjective but also breaks international law"???

You know that makes no sense, right?

How can something subjective break the law, sensei?


Because as seen it will be argued over whether it does break he law or not, like as seen what happens in Gaza, where for example, Israel will attack a target they perceive to hold military equipment, it is a ;legit target and if found that there was no military hardware, the attack is then subjective

Quite simple really as seen

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:35 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


Because as seen it will be argued over whether it does break he law or not, like as seen what happens in Gaza, where for example, Israel will attack a target they perceive to hold military equipment, it is a ;legit target and if found that there was no military hardware, the attack is then subjective

Quite simple really as seen

Again you're either giving examples from history or other current conflicts. The question was what you would objectively do to deal with ISIS and why that would break international law?

Otherwise it seems you are hiding behind subjective vagueness.


I told you how I would break the law, assassinations and leave a potent message each time it is done, you are just avoiding this of one of many points

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:42 pm

Of course the Geneva convention should not be abandoned, and war should be avoided, but these terrorists are basically committing genocide every day and pretending to be a disciplined and civilised army.


They need stamping on like the cockroaches they are, the quicker The better.



And Didge, it's people like you with your wet fish attitude here in UK that have allowed the islamists threat to flourish.


The warning signs have been there for years and years with growing evidence of wrong doing and dangerous actions but all you've done is deny and defend saying it's only a few and how racist it is to dare speak about things because it makes Muslims look bad etc...!?



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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Of course the Geneva convention should not be abandoned, and war should be avoided, but these terrorists are basically committing genocide every day and pretending to be a disciplined and civilised army.
They need stamping on like the cockroaches they are, the quicker The better.
And Didge, it's people like you with your wet fish attitude here in UK that have allowed the islamists threat to flourish.
The warning signs have been there for years and years with growing evidence of wrong doing and dangerous actions but all you've done is deny and defend saying it's only a few and how racist it is to dare speak about things because it makes Muslims look bad etc...!?




Really that is news to me Twatti, since I am many others have been against extremism, your view though is one to distrust all Muslims and fear them, which is not only daft but utterly stupid.
Its a good thing many people do not listen to morons like you

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:46 pm

Eilzel wrote:We'd have thrown the convention out years ago when he began gassing his own people; with no convention to worry about we'd have dived straight in. Don't forget where this started didge.



There is no evidence Assad gassed anyone, in fact all the evidence points to The use of gas by the nice friendly rebels that some of you were happy to arm and equip and help, the same ones who have now turned into ISIS....
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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:54 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:
Israel has the right tactic against extremism and as seen it works, after 50 years it still continues to work and it will be the likes of Israel who will not shy away from hitting IS hard in time, if their expansion grows and then you will be praising Israel
You dismiss the murder of civilians, including babies as collateral damage and you wonder why people are calling you Smelly.
You won't be able to get to front line extremists without killing many of the civilians from the villages where ISIS hide.


ISIS are murdering civilians, men women and children every day....


And what do we see here?


Lefties and terrorist appeasers saying we need to treat them nicely!


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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:58 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Of course the Geneva convention should not be abandoned, and war should be avoided, but these terrorists are basically committing genocide every day and pretending to be a disciplined and civilised army.
They need stamping on like the cockroaches they are, the quicker The better.
And Didge, it's people like you with your wet fish attitude here in UK that have allowed the islamists threat to flourish.
The warning signs have been there for years and years with growing evidence of wrong doing and dangerous actions but all you've done is deny and defend saying it's only a few and how racist it is to dare speak about things because it makes Muslims look bad etc...!?
Really that is news to me Twatti, since I am many others have been against extremism, your view though is one to distrust all Muslims and fear them, which is not only daft but utterly stupid.
Its a good thing many people do not listen to morons like you


No dodge, it is you applying any criticism of The dodgy Muslims to all Muslims and then using the argument that it is racist to say anything bad about all Muslims.


I have never said that ALL Muslims are anything except followers of The Koran.
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Post by The Puzzler on Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:59 pm

Didge wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Again you're either giving examples from history or other current conflicts. The question was what you would objectively do to deal with ISIS and why that would break international law?

Otherwise it seems you are hiding behind subjective vagueness.


I told you how I would break the law, assassinations and leave a potent message each time it is done, you are just avoiding this of one of many points
Spot on Didge. Bullets soaked in pig's blood would be a good start, half of warfare is psychological after all and it might seem extreme but we need any tools available to strike fear and doubt into this enemy. With all this said and done, I really do think WW3 will start soon and by then all pretence of following international law will be well and truly out the window.
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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Didge wrote:
Really that is news to me Twatti, since I am many others have been against extremism, your view though is one to distrust all Muslims and fear them, which is not only daft but utterly stupid.
Its a good thing many people do not listen to morons like you


No dodge, it is you applying any criticism of The dodgy Muslims to all Muslims and then using the argument that it is racist to say anything bad about all Muslims.


I have never said that ALL Muslims are anything except followers of The Koran.



The fact is you are a racist and xenophobic, so your point is moot because you hold hateful views, which you seek to demonize groups, which is why your arguments fail

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:19 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Didge wrote:


I told you how I would break the law, assassinations and leave a potent message each time it is done, you are just avoiding this of one of many points

That was one of the points in my strategy and the US have been doing just that. I say they should kill Al Baghdadi just like they killed OBL.

But I thought you're strategy would deal with the whole of ISIS. Are you going to pick each one off, one by one? Surely not. So then what?



My point is taking out many people which includes civilians, whether preachers, terrorist fund raisers etc, you hit them all, those that fund them, ll involved, where you make them live in fear, not just one or two people that the US take out, which is mainly leaders.
I am talking about all of ISIS, as stated I said sending in special forces to assassinate groups of them, leaving a clear message each time being made public, it is a perfect way to instill fear.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:46 pm

Didge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
No dodge, it is you applying any criticism of The dodgy Muslims to all Muslims and then using the argument that it is racist to say anything bad about all Muslims.
I have never said that ALL Muslims are anything except followers of The Koran.
The fact is you are a racist and xenophobic, so your point is moot because you hold hateful views, which you seek to demonize groups, which is why your arguments fail


Bullshit dodge!


There you go again, equating any criticism of SOME people as being a criticism of ALL people in those groups.


And then calling it racist and xenaphobic....


Effectively shutting down any rightly deserved criticism of those causing problems in those groups.


This hasdirectly led to The pc fear culture where you cannot say anything about ANY blacks or Muslims etc as It would be racist, and Effectively created an environment where some are above criticism and free to do as they please.



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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Didge wrote:
The fact is you are a racist and xenophobic, so your point is moot because you hold hateful views, which you seek to demonize groups, which is why your arguments fail


Bullshit dodge!
There you go again, equating any criticism of SOME people as being a criticism of ALL people in those groups.
And then calling it racist and xenaphobic....
Effectively shutting down any rightly deserved criticism of those causing problems in those groups.This hasdirectly led to The pc fear culture where you cannot say anything about ANY blacks or Muslims etc as It would be racist, and Effectively created an environment where some are above criticism and free to do as they please.



There is no denying you are racist and xenophobic, you can deny it till the cows come home, but the fact remains you are.
So again all your arguments based around such ignorance are moot

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:03 pm

Because I've rightly criticised SOME Muslims and SOME blacks.....



There you go again!!!




This is the attitude I'm talking about.




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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:09 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Because I've rightly criticised SOME Muslims and SOME blacks.....



There you go again!!!




This is the attitude I'm talking about.






I have proven time and again you are racist, xenophobic and homophobic, thus all arguments you used are based around ignorance and hate

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:29 pm


I see you have thrown homophobic into it too now.....


Rightly criticising SOME Muslims and SOME blacks when criticism is due is not racist or xenaphobic....



SIXHIRB will get you nowhere dodge.


You and other islamised lefties and appeasers bandy those put downs around so much that they only serve to show intent to silence legitimate concerns now dodge....

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:34 pm

You can deny all you like I have proven countless times, thus you need to deal with the issue of your denial

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:39 pm

You have falsely accused using SIXHIRB style put downs to try to silence legitimate criticism of SOME Muslims and SOME blacks.


You have then tried to argue that this is a criticism of ALL Muslims or ALL blacks and claimed racism or xenaphobia.



You have never proved anything.

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:40 pm

It is a fact, as many know you are, not my concern you keep denying facts

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:59 pm

Twat

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:01 pm

Blimey you suffer from tourettes syndrome as well.

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Post by nicko on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:05 pm

Excuse my ignorance, but what does SIXHIRB mean?
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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:06 pm

nicko wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but what does SIXHIRB mean?



It is a made up far right load of crap to excuse when people are racist, xenophobic, homophobic etc

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Post by nicko on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:12 pm

But it must stand for something.
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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:15 pm

nicko wrote:But it must stand for something.


http://takeastandagainstliberals.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/six-hirb.html

As I say it is made up bullshit, as seen where it falls apart is I am not left wing, which moots Mattis claim, plus the fact I have proven he is at least 5 of the 6

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:28 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
ISIS are murdering civilians, men women and children every day....
And what do we see here?
Lefties and terrorist appeasers saying we need to treat them nicely!
So what's your objective strategy?


Doing something rather than doing nothing.


Multi national forces deployed to restore order and security and to hunt down, arrest or take out the terrorist murderers.



Only then will the full extent of what's been happening come to light.



Then after a period of truth and reconciliation, a strong unity government needs to be established to take control.





SIXHIRB - sexist, Islamaphobic, xenaphobic, homophobic, intolerant, bigot.


Words used by the lefties to try to shout down and silence anyone who questions or doesn't follow their agenda.
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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:29 pm

But I am not left wing, so your use of a made up bullshit terminology, falls apart Matti.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:36 pm

I am not racist or xenaphobic so your use of SIXHIRB just shows how not try to silence legitimate criticism or concerns....

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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:39 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I am not racist or xenaphobic so your use of SIXHIRB just shows how not try to silence legitimate criticism or concerns....


How does it try to silence anything when you are free to post what you like?
That shows such views are illogical and absurd, in other words it is made up bullshit to excuse lemons like you to be as hateful as you like

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:44 pm

How am I being hateful, racist or xenaphobicby giving criticism where criticism is due and raising legitimate concerns...???



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Post by Guest on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:47 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:How am I being hateful, racist or xenaphobicby giving criticism where criticism is due and raising legitimate concerns...???





Oh dear, as seen you are always hateful because of your views towards others, you do not treat them as equals to you,, for example, are homosexuals normal to you and thus equal?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:49 pm

Anyway this thread is not about me and whether I am a racist or not.....



Here is my answer to Zack on my proposed course of action against ISIS....




Doing something rather than doing nothing.Multi national forces deployed to restore order and security and to hunt down, arrest or take out the terrorist murderers.Only then will the full extent of what's been happening come to light.Then after a period of truth and reconciliation, a strong unity government needs to be established to take control
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