Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

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Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:35 am

The US may have ruled out sending troops on the ground in Iraq for the time being, but get ready #TeamAustralia: it's looking like we're sending them in. And hell, yelling at Russia over MH17 seems to be getting diminishing results now, so we need to do something to look masculine and dynamic on the world stage.

“This is a fundamentally humanitarian mission designed to protect innocent men, women and children from the murderous hordes that currently confront them,” Abbott said in what sounds pretty unambiguously like "we're going in".

And if we do go in, then we're probably in for a while.

The Islamic State forces now control a large swathe of the country, the Iraqi government is in complete disarray, and even if peace mysteriously returns to the nation there's little chance that the independent-in-all-but-name Kurdish regions to the north will not declare independence.

The US military are already doing most of their negotiations over airstrikes and humanitarian missions with the Kurdish leaders and it's hard to see what would motivate them to accept control from a centralised government that has failed to protect them and can barely even agree on a leader at the moment.

Australia is already involved in the aid missions to rescue the Yazidi people sheltering atop Mount Sinjar, explaining “We should do what we can to protect people from potential genocide… No one wants to stand aside in the face of a potential genocide.” So he's on message, at least.

And one could casually point out that a lot of the asylum seekers that we're currently refusing to process and are attempting to force to return to their own country are from Syria and Iraq - but then again, our concern for their wellbeing ends at their own national borders, thanks very much.

By Andrew P Street


http://www.smh.com.au/world/tony-abbott-australian-troops-could-return-to-iraq-20140813-103f15.html

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:39 am

Well really NOT sure about this...
Mind you it seems like Tony is planing to loan the Kurds some of our SAS forces which is probably a good thing  confused  well If the Kurds are going to stand against the Crimes against Humanity that ISIS are committing, I am happy/proud for my nation to stand with them...

very conflicting proposition.

and Funny watching Tony try and out Toughman Putin...

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by Irn Bru on Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:16 am

Does Tony have the authority to send troops to Iraq without getting approval from parliament?
No British PM could ever get away with that by going it alone and if Cameron tried it he would be gone in the blink of the eye.


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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by gerber on Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:28 pm

Irn Bru wrote:Does Tony have the authority to send troops to Iraq without getting approval from parliament?
No British PM could ever get away with that by going it alone and if Cameron tried it he would be gone in the blink of the eye.


Good afternoon.

He tried to get Parliament to sanction intervention ii Syria. two years too late !!! They declined the motion. can someone please do a BA and discuss the difference apart fro the media coverage

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:46 pm

gerber wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:Does Tony have the authority to send troops to Iraq without getting approval from parliament?
No British PM could ever get away with that by going it alone and if Cameron tried it he would be gone in the blink of the eye.


Good afternoon.

He tried to get Parliament to sanction intervention ii Syria.  two years too late !!!  They declined the motion.  can someone please do a BA and discuss the difference apart fro the media coverage

Wrong Tony Gerbs lol   Veya is talking about Australia's Tony Abbott.

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by Angry Andy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:12 pm

The IS problem is escalating exponentially.
There is no apparent solution apart from offering humanitarian help to the mountain folk trapped by IS, and assisting in their escape from the hell hole they find themselves in.
Are the US right to bomb IS ? Clearly that particular brand of Islamic extremism has no place in  civilised society, but for each IS rebel killed, 2 more will enlist. They want to create the Islamic Celephate across the cetral region of the globe, from Indonesia in the East, across Pakistan, the entire middle east encompassing Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordon, Egypt, across north and central Africa ans both north and south of the Mediterranean.
If they believe that is their God's will and their destiny, no one army will stop them.
Will they negotiate ?  No. Will they even listen to reason? No. Will guns and bombs stop them? No.
Will the removal of western influence from the Middle East stop them? Possibly.
I have no answer, but I don't think dropping arms to militarise the Kurds, dropping bombs or Tony Blair or Tony Abbott talking is the answer either.

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:17 pm

Handy Andy wrote:The IS problem is escalating exponentially.
There is no apparent solution apart from offering humanitarian help to the mountain folk trapped by IS, and assisting in their escape from the hell hole they find themselves in.
Are the US right to bomb IS ? Clearly that particular brand of Islamic extremism has no place in  civilised society, but for each IS rebel killed, 2 more will enlist. They want to create the Islamic Celephate across the cetral region of the globe, from Indonesia in the East, across Pakistan, the entire middle east encompassing Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordon, Egypt, across north and central Africa ans both north and south of the Mediterranean.
If they believe that is their God's will and their destiny, no one army will stop them.
Will they negotiate ?  No. Will they even listen to reason? No. Will guns and bombs stop them? No.
Will the removal of western influence from the Middle East stop them? Possibly.
I have no answer, but I don't think dropping arms to militarise the Kurds, dropping bombs or Tony Blair or Tony Abbott talking is the answer either.

See http://www.newsfixboard.com/t6362-uk-steps-up-role-in-iraq-with-move-to-aid-kurds-and-yazidis-against-isis

Have to say HA, we and America caused this and we need to help them and I do think the Kurds need assistance and we need to airlift out the people in real danger. The Sons of Iraq got rid of Al Qada in Iraq once, they and the Kurds can deal with this providing they don't run out of ammunition as they did. The Iraq pilots have been taking amazing risks to rescue as many people as possible, but they can't do it by themselves.

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by Angry Andy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:35 pm

I am all for the humanitarian part, Sassy, but I fear that putting troops on the ground, even in a defensive role to protect the trapped mountain Kurds and Christians is a dangerous manoever against a volatile and unstable IS force.
I see no easy answer, I am afraid.

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:41 pm

Handy Andy wrote:I am all for the humanitarian part, Sassy, but I fear that putting troops on the ground, even in a defensive role to protect the trapped mountain Kurds and Christians is a dangerous manoever against a volatile and unstable IS force.
I see no easy answer, I am afraid.

I don't think they are considering putting troops on the ground, but sending out helicopters to airlift the Yazids out and giving the Kurds ammunition, they were taking ground back from the IS before they ran out of it.

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:19 pm

Handy Andy wrote:The IS problem is escalating exponentially.
There is no apparent solution apart from offering humanitarian help to the mountain folk trapped by IS, and assisting in their escape from the hell hole they find themselves in.
Are the US right to bomb IS ? Clearly that particular brand of Islamic extremism has no place in  civilised society, but for each IS rebel killed, 2 more will enlist. They want to create the Islamic Celephate across the cetral region of the globe, from Indonesia in the East, across Pakistan, the entire middle east encompassing Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordon, Egypt, across north and central Africa ans both north and south of the Mediterranean.
If they believe that is their God's will and their destiny, no one army will stop them.
Will they negotiate ?  No. Will they even listen to reason? No. Will guns and bombs stop them? No.
Will the removal of western influence from the Middle East stop them? Possibly.
I have no answer, but I don't think dropping arms to militarise the Kurds, dropping bombs or Tony Blair or Tony Abbott talking is the answer either.

Actually if we were to deploy a significant SAS force we could really help... we have done it before in East Timor.


And LOLZ very pessimistic
Yes the Old order is going (Euro/American Christianity) but Islam is NOT the Rising power. it is the Asian Century it is not the middle east century. They may escape the Hold of the West, but they are still are no where near capable of taking anything between Pakistan and Indonesia. And in reality Indonesia probably will not join a Caliphate because as much as it is Islamic like most of Asia wealth is worshipped more and there is greater economic opportunity dealing with China and the rest of south east Asia.

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:26 pm

Sassy wrote:
Handy Andy wrote:I am all for the humanitarian part, Sassy, but I fear that putting troops on the ground, even in a defensive role to protect the trapped mountain Kurds and Christians is a dangerous manoever against a volatile and unstable IS force.
I see no easy answer, I am afraid.

I don't think they are considering putting troops on the ground, but sending out helicopters to airlift the Yazids out and giving the Kurds ammunition, they were taking ground back from the IS before they ran out of it.

UMm no Pretty sure Tony is talking about deploying SAS forces...

 ::rambo:: ::rambo:: ::rambo:: ::rambo:: 
Tony is rather Gun-ho  ::=|Q:: 

We could deploy a relatively small elite contingent with limited risk and potential to cause major disruption to ISIS.
I don't think that will bring about a long term solution but it could give the Yardiz and minorities a chance to escape the slaughter

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:45 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Sassy wrote:

I don't think they are considering putting troops on the ground, but sending out helicopters to airlift the Yazids out and giving the Kurds ammunition, they were taking ground back from the IS before they ran out of it.

UMm no Pretty sure Tony is talking about deploying SAS forces...

 ::rambo:: ::rambo:: ::rambo:: ::rambo:: 
Tony is rather Gun-ho  ::=|Q:: 

We could deploy a relatively small elite contingent with limited risk and potential to cause major disruption to ISIS.
I don't think that will bring about a long term solution but it could give the Yardiz and minorities a chance to escape the slaughter

Sorry Veya, meant our lot, that's what they are going to do.

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by veya_victaous on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:48 pm

Irn Bru wrote:Does Tony have the authority to send troops to Iraq without getting approval from parliament?
No British PM could ever get away with that by going it alone and if Cameron tried it he would be gone in the blink of the eye.


No he doesn't, but he would probably get it...

keep in mind Australia doesn't use 'grunts' (small population makes it infeasible) instead we have focused on a limited size but well equipped highly professional force.

Compared to US or UK our strategy causes far less casualties amongst our forces and gives us a Strong offensive capacity BUT the flip side is we have virtually No Capacity to Hold any ground we capture (that's what you need grunts for  Wink )

So we'll be in and out, Just like East Timor (that's the plan anyway  Suspect )
Our forces have spent the recent Iraq and Afghan war doing exactly this and leaving the ground for the US or other allies to hold. I believe this time the Idea would be for the Kurds to be the 'holders'

It's one of those things.. is it better to do nothing or to try and help.... it really is a close call.  Neutral  but I think Aussies would consider it that we should try since we were part of the force that fucked them up before. (like Vietnam and Cambodia, Australia has tried to make good the suffering we were a part of.)
 Cool  If Previous nations we have invaded(with the USA) are any thing to go by we will be great friends within 20 years.

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Re: Back To Iraq.... Tony Considering send troops Even if USA does not?!?!!

Post by veya_victaous on Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:28 am

http://www.news.com.au/national/pms-comments-on-possible-military-intervention-raise-questions-about-his-temperament/story-fncynjr2-1227023821523

That doesn’t translate into a war lust or make the Prime Minister a war monger. But it does indicate he is has a personal makeup which would not shy from considering dispatch of troops into a conflict, if that was one of the options he faced.

The question has been raised by the Prime Minister’s comments in London yesterday when he said of military action in Iraq: “Well, we certainly don’t rule that out, we are talking to our partners and our partners, in this instance, are certainly much wider than simply the United States and United Kingdom.”
.......

“Protecting people from murder at the hands of ISIL (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) terrorists is a humanitarian cause. Trying to ensure that people are not exposed to terrorists who have been crucifying, decapitating, summarily executing people — who have been dealing in a hideous way with women and children as well as with men. This is a humanitarian cause and Australian has a long and proud tradition of assisting people in need.”

Fuck me  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  for once Tony is saying things I like

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