Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

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Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Sat 9 Aug 2014 - 7:16

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Likud Charter Calls for Destruction of Any Palestinian State

By Jonathan Weiler

Since virtually every comment on Hamas in American media includes the assertion that the group’s Charter rejects Israel’s right to exist, it’s worth noting the following from the Likud Platform of 1999:

a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”

b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel.
The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem”

c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”

d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.

There have been some updates to the platform more recently, reflecting Israel’s withdrawal of settlements from Gaza in 2005. But the Likud Party has *never* in its statements of principles, accepted a Palestinian State. Its electoral partner, Yisrael Beitenu, has likewise categorically rejected the possibility of an independent Palestinian State, insisting that the idea is nothing more than a ploy to facilitate the destruction of Israel.

The Hamas charter, of course, does more than just reject Israel as a sovereign political entity. It’s a vile document that echoes some of the worst anti-Semitic tropes of the modern era. But on the central question of one side denying the other’s legitimacy — it’s hard to ignore the symmetry between Likud – the party of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – and Hamas.

Some defenders of Israel become indignant at the mention of these realities as scurrilous and spurious because the Likud platform quoted above is just an “old” statement of principles not reflective of the Party’s actions in power. But by that logic, the Hamas Charter, written over 25 years ago, cannot be said to be the sole controlling document of that organization, since much more recent statements and actions by its leadership have, at least some times, included an expressed willingness to pursue a long-term agreement with Israel. Furthermore, Hamas also agreed to join the Palestinian Authority in a unity government that accepts all previous PA agreements with Israel.

Too much political discussion in the United States about Israel/Palestine proceeds from the premise that Palestinians have no other interest than to destroy Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. Therefore, it is said, well-intentioned Israel has no viable negotiating partner for peace. The political reality on the ground does not conform to such a simple-minded tale of good vs. evil. Israeli hardliners in power have repeatedly rejected any basis for a viable Palestinian state. Indeed, Prime Minister Netanyahu’s qualified statement in support of a two-state solution in 2009 – which his American apologists repeatedly invoke to demonstrate his “moderate” bona fides – was characterized by a member of his own cabinet as “the spin of our lives.” In fact. Likud leaders have said unequivocally that no two-state deal is possible. And just three weeks ago, speaking at a press conference, Netanyahu said:

   “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.”

As David Horovitz wrote in The Times of Israel:

   “He wasn’t saying that he doesn’t support a two-state solution. He was saying that it’s impossible. This was not a new, dramatic change of stance by the prime minister. It was a new, dramatic exposition of his long-held stance.”

In other words, no independent Palestinian state. Period. Ever.

Arab leaders are accused *all the time* of making one set of (conciliatory) statements in front of some audiences in English, while revealing their (true) rejectionist feelings in front of others, in Arabic. To the extent that this is true, one could certainly say the same about Netanyahu – relatively conciliatory and reasonable-sounding statements for international audiences. And altogether different rhetoric for internal consumption. Bibi is, after all, a master – like many politicians – at speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

Since Palestine does not exist as a recognized independent state, there is no need for Israel’s rejectionists to call for Palestine’s “destruction.” But the consistent avowals of Israeli leaders – and the plain language of the party platforms that express their parties’ core beliefs – to prevent such a state from coming into being is not substantively different from the expressed desire of the Hamas Charter to reject Israel’s existence.

The beginnings of a more fair and balanced appreciation of the conflict would start with that acknowledgment.

http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestinian.html


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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by scrat on Sun 17 Aug 2014 - 6:27

Didge wrote:
scrat wrote:Didglet chap, only two complete fucking idiots would try to associate Dresden with Gaza, but then you and Quim are both anti British, and apart from the fact that your bleatings on this matter are an insult to our war dead, you've attempted this rearrangement of our glorious history to defend nothing but savage nazi Jews.

Next time one of you fuckwits will arrive on here with a picture of Hiroshima and blame that on the British.

World wars are the defence of mankind's very existence and freedom.

The war in Palestine is nothing but greedy Zionist pigs, nazi Jews land-grabbing and savage nazi Jews hell bent on murdering, stealing and committing wholesale genocide on the unarmed civilians of Palestine, and that's why Netanazi, (the subject of this thread) is bracing himself for a war crimes tribunal.

I don't think I've ever seen something so pathetic and so dishonest in my time on these boards, but then savage nazi Jews will say anything to defend its lies and it's still early days yet.


Oh here we go again with more raving loony tunes as I am not the one claiming anyone is Nazis, which is why you are such a fucking moron as seen. You associate bombing in Gaza as genocide, thus using "your" logic, "You" thus class the British and Churchill as a Nazi, as the bombing campaign was targeted against civilians, thus it is "you" which your left wing ignorance that is insulting the allies war dead. You made yourself a hole you fuckwit and as seen I am making you look a right tit, of which you are unable to get out of. So I am doing nothing with our history as I am slating the bombing campaign, that is you and because you associate one with genocide, then you have to associate all and if you call one set of people doing this Nazis, then you have to call everyone else the same by your idiotic association.

So not only do you call the British Nazi's but also Churchill dear little boy scrat, what a traitorous worm you really are, best you go bleating off back down your hole where you belong.
You have done nothing but dishonour our war dead, those who put their lives on the line for our freedom and you've used their acts of heroism to defend the disgusting activities of land grabbing savage nazi Jews.

Hang your head in shame.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Sun 17 Aug 2014 - 6:30

scrat wrote:
Didge wrote:


Oh here we go again with more raving loony tunes as I am not the one claiming anyone is Nazis, which is why you are such a fucking moron as seen. You associate bombing in Gaza as genocide, thus using "your" logic, "You" thus class the British and Churchill as a Nazi, as the bombing campaign was targeted against civilians, thus it is "you" which your left wing ignorance that is insulting the allies war dead. You made yourself a hole you fuckwit and as seen I am making you look a right tit, of which you are unable to get out of. So I am doing nothing with our history as I am slating the bombing campaign, that is you and because you associate one with genocide, then you have to associate all and if you call one set of people doing this Nazis, then you have to call everyone else the same by your idiotic association.

So not only do you call the British Nazi's but also Churchill dear little boy scrat, what a traitorous worm you really are, best you go bleating off back down your hole where you belong.
You have done nothing but dishonour our war dead, those who put their lives on the line for our freedom and you've used their acts of heroism to defend the disgusting activities of land grabbing savage nazi Jews.

Hang your head in shame.


No you are doing that you treacherous racist, by claiming that bombing campaigns are genocide that those who enact them are Nazis, so you best shove your head in the toilet and flush it as you have dishonered not only all the allied war dead from WW2 but also WW1. Youi made a daft claim, now you suffer the consequences of your stupidity.
You claim to stand against racism, what a joke, you are as seen a raving racist who hates Jews, and as seen you would have been right up with Hitlers cronies
y

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Original Quill on Sun 17 Aug 2014 - 12:28

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

And if it wasn't for your brothers across the pond, Britain would have been the first European nation to lose a war to a petite South American dictatorship.

And don't get me started about Japan.  While you guys turned tail and ran, we sank half of the Japanese Naval Air Fleet within six months after Pearl Harbor (ie, Battle of Midway).  While you guys left Australia swinging on a rope, our 5th-Fleet turned back the Japanese in the Solomon Islands and saved OZ by taking Henderson Field, at Guadalcanal, giving us air cover protection across the whole northern half of OZ.

I do like your sentiment about Dresden, tho.  It's the Israeli solution, as long as Hamas wants to bend over and take it.


Dresden moots his whole argument, as seen he states a job well done, where over a hundred thousand innocent civilians died in one night, many incinerated and he then claims genocide over civilian deaths in Gaza, which is brought about by Hamas policies, it shows he neglects all facts and is very hypocritical.

Do not be too quick to diminish though the British part in the conflict in the Pacific though Quill, which without the British and its Empire, the USA would have struggled badly without their support. The US was lucky at the battle of Midway, more to the point Yamamoto was a very poor Commander, who should have used his whole fleet which would have been 9 aircraft carriers against four, which if he had, the Americans would have been easily defeated. Pearl harbour was a massive tactical blunder by the Japanese, which only came off the back of the success of the Germans, which if they had waited only a few more weeks, with the Russian counter offensive, they would no doubt have never made the attack at all, being as their plan was to not engage in a war with the US until 1946. They were over confident based on Germany's success. Pearl Harbour was a poor attack, because the harbour being so shallow enabled the US to all but one of the warships refit them into service. It was a massive blunder, even more so choosing to attack on a Sunday when most of the Navy personnel were not on board the ships, who were instrumental in helping training up the USA Navy afterwards to the effective force it became.

Of course the Japanese would have lost in the end, but the fact is the British helped tie up countless Japanese troops within different areas within Asia. The yanks took a battering also in the early stages and made a a poor tactical choice to retake the Philippines, which cost countless unnecessary lives both military and civilian when it should have been a policy to to take out Formosa, then Japan itself. The reality is it was the US Submarine effort that really crippled Japan, where it effectively took out its lifeline of supplies and resources, which Japan had made little effort to advance their technology on countering the submarine threat. To say the British turned tail and ran is also bollocks mate, as they dug in, where many Empire troops were called upon to stem the advance of the Japanese.

To claim we would have lost the Falklands is also very poor, Britain regain them mainly on their own, with blood and guts. Sorry but the US troops of today are nothing more than borrowing the British methods of training at which we excel at. What the US has always had is quantity and weaponry, but not skill, they had to learn that from the British. The British showed how to win conflicts in the far east after WW2, the Yanks, took no heed how the British won over hearts and minds, the Yanks as usual went in gun ho and paid the price for doing so. They failed to take a leaf out of the book of the British, only after the Iranian siege did they learn to start taking advice from the best trained troops in the world, as your US special forces are modeled on the British ones, in fact many forces world wide are, showing how the British special forces are the elite of the elite, because quality does not come in numbers but being able to select and recruit the best.

Interesting thoughts on the Pacific.  I am of the opinion that Roosevelt and Churchill engineered Pearl Harbor, and that was why certain elements look to be blunders in hindsight.

The US had passed the Neutrality Acts of the 1930s, keeping America out of Europe’s wars.  Of course, Roosevelt (and Churchill) wanted the US in Europe’s war in order to save Britain.  Roosevelt had even gone so far as to pass the Lend Lease Act, which armed the allieds.  Then Roosevelt conceived a brilliant plan.  Germany, Italy and Japan had entered into the Tripartite Act in September, 1940.  The three countries established each other's spheres of interest and committed "to assist one another with all political, economic and military means when one of the three contracting powers is attacked." by a country not already involved in the war,

Do you see how Roosevelt turned that around?  With it, he could maneuver Hitler to attack us, the United States, and we would suddenly be in Europe’s War.  In June 1940 Roosevelt had the United States Pacific Fleet move its main Pacific base from San Diego, California to Pearl Harbor. The move was “designed to demonstrate the naval power available to the United States in the Pacific region, and hopefully, to act as a deterrent to Japanese aggression against American, British and Dutch colonial possessions in East Asia.”  http://www.pacificwar.org.au/pearlharbor/pearloverview4.html  Now the real reason: moving the Pacific Fleet to Pearl Harbor made it accessible to attack from Japan.  It was like waving a red flag in front of a bull.  Ever wonder why the aircraft carriers were on maneuvers that weekend?

The rest is history.  Japan attacked Pearl, and started a war with the US.  The US retaliated and attacked Japan back.  Thus, the Tripartite Act was invoked and Germany had to declare war on the US because “one of the three powers” was attacked.  Germany decidedly did not want to declare war on America until it had completely secured Europe.  But she was tricked into it.  Roosevelt and Churchill got around the Neutrality Act.

I don’t really mind that Britain couldn’t handle the Pacific—until some street chav comes along and twists the story.  As you say, Japan just took on waaaay too much; she was no match and the US was bound to win that war.  Nor do I resist your assertion that the British were the inventers of the tactics of war at the time.  Hell, war tactics is a worldwide game.  The US built tactics around the rifled barrel in the Civil War, and the world followed them with defensive (trench) war until the Germans introduced blitzkrieg.  Grady McWhiney, Perry D. Jamieson, Attack and Die: Civil War Military Tactics and the Southern Heritage.

You Europeans still don’t understand America’s ability to produce, however.  Japan does.  But you guys still try to make it the old way: Rolls Royce, Mercedes Benz, etc.  Germany designed the greatest tank of the day in the Tiger II, but she could only produce 492 of them when the US produced 49,234 Sherman M4’s.  You guys are still living in the Renaissance, trying to build beautiful statutes.  The US has mastered systems theory, in which we build not just a single thing, but the means to produce lots of those things.  We take on a much bigger scope of problem, and WWII was but an example.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Original Quill on Sun 17 Aug 2014 - 12:38

Shady wrote:Good morning Folks.

Having read many of Quills posts about the British one thing is for sure....He's very jealous of the British.

Good morning, Shady.

Nice try.  Lol.  The good 'ol British bluster...cough, cough, wheeze, wheeze.



You are just a couple of islands.  Your star has risen and fallen.  Be glad the next 'big dog' accepts you and doesn't put you out the back door.   Razz Razz

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Sun 17 Aug 2014 - 14:02

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:


Dresden moots his whole argument, as seen he states a job well done, where over a hundred thousand innocent civilians died in one night, many incinerated and he then claims genocide over civilian deaths in Gaza, which is brought about by Hamas policies, it shows he neglects all facts and is very hypocritical.

Do not be too quick to diminish though the British part in the conflict in the Pacific though Quill, which without the British and its Empire, the USA would have struggled badly without their support. The US was lucky at the battle of Midway, more to the point Yamamoto was a very poor Commander, who should have used his whole fleet which would have been 9 aircraft carriers against four, which if he had, the Americans would have been easily defeated. Pearl harbour was a massive tactical blunder by the Japanese, which only came off the back of the success of the Germans, which if they had waited only a few more weeks, with the Russian counter offensive, they would no doubt have never made the attack at all, being as their plan was to not engage in a war with the US until 1946. They were over confident based on Germany's success. Pearl Harbour was a poor attack, because the harbour being so shallow enabled the US to all but one of the warships refit them into service. It was a massive blunder, even more so choosing to attack on a Sunday when most of the Navy personnel were not on board the ships, who were instrumental in helping training up the USA Navy afterwards to the effective force it became.

Of course the Japanese would have lost in the end, but the fact is the British helped tie up countless Japanese troops within different areas within Asia. The yanks took a battering also in the early stages and made a a poor tactical choice to retake the Philippines, which cost countless unnecessary lives both military and civilian when it should have been a policy to to take out Formosa, then Japan itself. The reality is it was the US Submarine effort that really crippled Japan, where it effectively took out its lifeline of supplies and resources, which Japan had made little effort to advance their technology on countering the submarine threat. To say the British turned tail and ran is also bollocks mate, as they dug in, where many Empire troops were called upon to stem the advance of the Japanese.

To claim we would have lost the Falklands is also very poor, Britain regain them mainly on their own, with blood and guts. Sorry but the US troops of today are nothing more than borrowing the British methods of training at which we excel at. What the US has always had is quantity and weaponry, but not skill, they had to learn that from the British. The British showed how to win conflicts in the far east after WW2, the Yanks, took no heed how the British won over hearts and minds, the Yanks as usual went in gun ho and paid the price for doing so. They failed to take a leaf out of the book of the British, only after the Iranian siege did they learn to start taking advice from the best trained troops in the world, as your US special forces are modeled on the British ones, in fact many forces world wide are, showing how the British special forces are the elite of the elite, because quality does not come in numbers but being able to select and recruit the best.

Interesting thoughts on the Pacific.  I am of the opinion that Roosevelt and Churchill engineered Pearl Harbor, and that was why certain elements look to be blunders in hindsight.

The US had passed the Neutrality Acts of the 1930s, keeping America out of Europe’s wars.  Of course, Roosevelt (and Churchill) wanted the US in Europe’s war in order to save Britain.  Roosevelt had even gone so far as to pass the Lend Lease Act, which armed the allieds.  Then Roosevelt conceived a brilliant plan.  Germany, Italy and Japan had entered into the Tripartite Act in September, 1940.  The three countries established each other's spheres of interest and committed "to assist one another with all political, economic and military means when one of the three contracting powers is attacked." by a country not already involved in the war,

Do you see how Roosevelt turned that around?  With it, he could maneuver Hitler to attack us, the United States, and we would suddenly be in Europe’s War.  In June 1940 Roosevelt had the United States Pacific Fleet move its main Pacific base from San Diego, California to Pearl Harbor. The move was “designed to demonstrate the naval power available to the United States in the Pacific region, and hopefully, to act as a deterrent to Japanese aggression against American, British and Dutch colonial possessions in East Asia.”  http://www.pacificwar.org.au/pearlharbor/pearloverview4.html  Now the real reason: moving the Pacific Fleet to Pearl Harbor made it accessible to attack from Japan.  It was like waving a red flag in front of a bull.  Ever wonder why the aircraft carriers were on maneuvers that weekend?

The rest is history.  Japan attacked Pearl, and started a war with the US.  The US retaliated and attacked Japan back.  Thus, the Tripartite Act was invoked and Germany had to declare war on the US because “one of the three powers” was attacked.  Germany decidedly did not want to declare war on America until it had completely secured Europe.  But she was tricked into it.  Roosevelt and Churchill got around the Neutrality Act.

I don’t really mind that Britain couldn’t handle the Pacific—until some street chav comes along and twists the story.  As you say, Japan just took on waaaay too much; she was no match and the US was bound to win that war.  Nor do I resist your assertion that the British were the inventers of the tactics of war at the time.  Hell, war tactics is a worldwide game.  The US built tactics around the rifled barrel in the Civil War, and the world followed them with defensive (trench) war until the Germans introduced blitzkrieg.  Grady McWhiney, Perry D. Jamieson, Attack and Die: Civil War Military Tactics and the Southern Heritage.

You Europeans still don’t understand America’s ability to produce, however.  Japan does.  But you guys still try to make it the old way: Rolls Royce, Mercedes Benz, etc.  Germany designed the greatest tank of the day in the Tiger II, but she could only produce 492 of them when the US produced 49,234 Sherman M4’s.  You guys are still living in the Renaissance, trying to build beautiful statutes.  The US has mastered systems theory, in which we build not just a single thing, but the means to produce lots of those things.  We take on a much bigger scope of problem, and WWII was but an example.


You are completely wrong about Roosevelt, who if his intention had been to go to war to entice Germany to do so, he would have done so. In 1970's encrypted messages from he Axis about Roosevelt shows, America knew the disposition of U-Boats within the Atlantic and this was used to divert individual ships and convoys away from them. Thus far from seeking incidents, it was trying to avert them and of the few that occurred, Roosevelt used them to awaken the American people to the dangers coming, but he could have used the information to ensure there was a incident every few days. There is also phone conversations where a recording machine was accidentally not turned off, which in this Roosevelt (published in 1982) shows he was interested in keeping the USA out of the war. He also directed an exhaustive amount of time with the Japanese to again avert war. His views were based around again Japan sensing that Germany might loose and Hitler pushed his forces in the advance on Moscow, with the opposite fear, in that that the Japanese might settled with the Americans. What Roosevelt did again which was telling later was how he did not do as Stalin did with Germany providing stock piles of oil, he denied japan this opportunity, which was to prove telling as stated, but here again, America offered japan all the oil they wanted if they evacuated from French IndoChina, which was a direct threat to western influence in the East and pointed to a war with the Western Allies. The Japanese diplomats were told to not talk about this offer, again mainly on the advances of Germany, where they were misguide to think Germany would win and the fact Germany would join them in a war against the US, that the Japanese decided to strike at the US

You need to read Gerhard Weinberg the best and most knowledgeable Historian on WW2. He points out many myths, which as seen you are promoting, not many people know that Churchill, who berated Neville Chamberlain over Czechoslovakia, told privately the Czechoslovakia Goverment if he had been in power he would have done the exact same thing, being as Britain was not geared up yet for war. In fact it was Neville Chamberlain who was instrumental in new rise in production of aircraft for the RAF.

I am very aware of the significance of the industrial capacity of the USA throughout WW2, but this took time in the beginning of the war and did not reach full potential until much later, it was very instrumental in helping the Russians, who without hundreds of thousands of trucks, would have been hard pressed to carry out its huge encirclement of the German army. In fact many British and American tanks, even though seen by the Russians as not very good, were sent in vast numbers to assists the Russians, to the point there were battalions of Churchill tanks at the battle of Kursk.

Germany produced some of the best weapons of WW2, their problem though was more on the fact on not utilizing one or two good products by trying to mass produce them, but they went for some many different models and complicated technology, which severely hampered production and mass producing of weapons, plus the fact Hitlers insistence on meddling with how new aircraft and tanks were to be designed, one of the worst cases, was the ME262, where it was delayed in production, so it could be redesigned from a fighter to a fighter bomber. I doubt many Americans or British would share your sentiments on the fact of the mass production of the Sherman, being as it was nicknamed the Ronson after the  cigarette lighter, as the tank was susceptible to burst into flames when hit, and many men were burned to death having little time to evacuate the tank. As I sat there are many myths surrounding the conflict in WW2, hence why it is good to read up on the likes of historians Gerhard Weinberg.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:15

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

Yes that is their own doing Irn, they went to war, that is the outcome of starting conflicts and losing wars, where there is 6 decades of continued violence against a people where they fail to recognise a UN rulling.
Seems you are suggesting Israel bends over and takes it up the arse from terrorism and violence, you would not expect the Uk to do so and by thus why would you expect Israel to do so.
The settlements are wrong and you avoid every point I have made, more to the point you avoid Palestinians have been the cause behind constant problems within the region for some time.
I would restrict movement too if there had been so many terrorist attacks and conflicts started over 60 years, maybe you can explain why again it has been the Palestinian people who have not excepted a rulling, where they have committed themselves to constant conflict.
I mean the west has done exactly the same and occupied nations that have started conflicts and have done so for decades and displaced millions of its people and we have had no conflict since from Germany
, are you saying we were wrong to occupy them?
The West Bank has the right approach, Hamas has one of war, where Fatah continue to use peace they will gain support

That is a downright lie because there never was a ratified UN resolution to partition Palestine.

Your even-handed approach to the problems in Palestine were exposed as nonsense with your whimpering response to the statements made by the Israeli minister about concentration camps. That was in complete contrast to you going absolutely ballistic to the point where you were beside yourself and filled with rage and disgust at the Jewish blogger who mentioned concentration camps in his article even though he made clear he was talking about them before they became death camps.

Your mask slipped ages ago when you were shouting it was all lies that Israeli’s were sitting on a hillside overlooking Gaza and were cheering as missiles flew in. The fact that it happened was independently verified by numerous media sources yet there you were denying it all even to the point that you were trying to take credit for it but all it did was show that you were lying when it was all true.

But it's clear now that you actually support the occupation of the West Bank and in doing so you have no thought for around 750,000 refugees who are living in refugee camps in the West Bank with very few resources and not even the basics of anything that men women and children need to survive with some degree of dignity.

This nonsense that the occupation is just a buffer zone to protect Israel from attack is nothing more than lies because if that were the case they would not be populating them and building settlements.

You are no humanitarian.




Hilarious babble again where all he can do is make infantile points about me and nothing to refute my points.
I am glad the world does not listen to fuckwits like you Irn, because if it did we would be under the Nazi jackboot, where you would wave a piece of paper in the hope we would not be attacked and at no point have you ever addressed any of my points, but instead rambled on with more horseshit how you back Hamas and yes you do back Hamas with your arguments as any sane rational person would condemn Hamas and wish they were removed being as their whole policy is the annihilation of Israel and the Jews . Palestine went to war and lost and lost lands, that is their own fuck up and they have to face the consequences of naked aggression which they have continued to do so for 60 years, where no other nations has done so after starting and losing continued conflict.

Israel was created by a UN resolution, and rightly so and you neglect at every turn that not only Palestine but countless other Arab nations have for 60 years not only vowed to wipe out Israel abut enacted aggressive policies in the attempt to do so, where at every turn Israel has battered their arses against all odds also in the first conflict and at every turn, you want to show sympathy to the aggressors for losing conflicts they started, what sort of fucked up idiot are you? That would be like saying to Germany in 1945, do not worry you started a world war and now millions are dead, we are not going to occupy your nation, you are free to be blameless for your actions and that all your lands will be given back to you, that is how daft your argument is. Where is your call for East Prussia to be returned to Germany Irn, or lands lost from Poland, Romania, Italy the list is so long it makes you look an utter idiot and a complete hypocritical infantile fool? 

I also love how you missed out all the fundamental parts of where Palestine, has since and before Israel's creation never accepting this, even though other nations have had to and have constantly gone to war and attacked them, showing the fact they stupidly went to war and lost, not once but many times, where in between they have always committed terrorism. You also miss out the fact that 600,000 to 800,000 Jews were displaced from Arab lands for no crime, but because Israel won against all odds against countless Arab nations attacking them, not accepting the UN resolution, of course you are quite on this and the fact displaced Palestinians were fundamental in starting the Lebanese civil war, where one million Lebanese were displaced let alone how many thousands died, all facts you are silent on, which is no surprise, of course we see you protesting for the Lebanese and Jews to get their lands and property back?
Nope, showing your complete hypocrisy, because as Palestinian have been the cause of many problems and conflicts all because they went to war and lost, again it would be like you backing Germany after 1945 to continue aggression for another 60 years with conflict and terrorism, of which rightly they were very much denied to do so by occupation, and OI have never seen you say this occupation was wrong, are you saying it was wrong?

Your pathetic infantile attempts to use guilt in your counters proves you know fuck all about this situation and when you wish to debate this in an adult fashion with an intellectual debate, let me know, instead of the bull you have spouted. So you can continue to spit your commie dummy out all day long, as in every situation Palestine has been the aggressor, of which you refuse to recognize and in every situation Israel has kicked their sorry arse an rightly so. Again you would thus allow a neighbor for 60 years to continue to attack your home and do nothing proving your claims are again nothing but horseshit, when the reality is you would defend your home with all means.

The Palestinian people have elected Hamas, thus they are  accountable to Hamas's war crimes, of which you ignore at every tune, of which I have and have continued to condemn Israel for said war crimes with indiscriminate shelling, you though make no voice of this and continue to be silent on the fact Hamas, previous the PLO etc have been aggressors to Israel . Firing rockets indiscriminately is a war crime, and to claim proportion is utter tripe based on the fact that Israel spends some of its budget on defense, shows it cares for its civilian, where the Iron Dome and bomb shelters ensures comparatively fewer civilian Israeli casualties, where as Hamas uses people as cannon fodder to garner sympathy .

Again firing rockets at a civilian population is by definition a war crime and just because "not as many" Israeli civilians have been killed does nothing to mitigate the fact that firing rockets at civilians is a war crime. You ignore the fact, Hamas hoards illegal weapons in UN schools, especially near refugees, and pretend they are not putting innocent Palestinians in harms way, where again this is a crime against humanity and proves beyond doubt Hamas has no care for the civi;lians of Palestine, where again they build and use money to create tunnels to attack Israel, where you claim these are used to bring in supplies, what a fuckwit you are, yes the supplies are rockets to attack Israel.

Such creations are an aggressive strategy, which at each turn you ignore and then you bemoan Israel's offensive tactics to take them out, where again there would be far less civilian casualties if Palestinians also had bomb shelters provided for them which have never been built, of which again you are silent or use of these tunnels. in fact it is only the military and political wing of Hamas that has access to them  Such crimes do nothing to promote peace and only aggravate an already volatile situation. Hamas must immediately cease such acts, but they have no intention of doing so and continue to place the Palestinian people at risk by using them as cannon fodder to garner world sympathy. All this you ignore at every turn, where I condemn settlements, I back the way the approach of the West Bank which is one of peace. Until Hamas is dismantled and got shot of, I will continue to back the military strategy by Israel against them, as most people with any logical and rational view would when they are confronted by a group, who's intent is the annihilation of Israel.

Your really are fucking clueless and to use your pathetic guilt card tactics, shows what a fucking idiot you really are, as in 2005 when Israel withdrew from Gaza and its settlements, what then happened was that they started to bring in weapons to attack Israel of which no blockade would have been needed but had to be to counter an aggressive stance from Gaza, again which you constantly ignore, it seems you wish to back naked aggression and ignore all the facts. Peace will come with a more liberal Israeli government and when Hamas is removed and Gaza demilitarizes and shows it wishes to go down the road of peace, as in 60 years it never has, yet you expect Israel to bend over and just take it up the arse.

You boy have absolutely lost it with a whole load of nonsense and all I see is a tidal wave of words that is more smoke and mirrors to cover up your support for what is going on in the West Bank and the way the Palestinians there are being treated by an occupation force than anything else. Never once have I denied Israel the right to exist and never once have I backed Hamas firing rockets into Israel so cut out the lies. Your whimpering abjection to the Israeli ministers concentration camp statements and you sorry excuse for those watching on a hillside and cheering when the missiles flew in confirmed what I have thought about you for some time now.

And the Israeli’s withdrew from Gaza because they could hardly blockade the place and incarcerate the population with their own people in it, could they? Israel was still an occupying force over Gaza even after they left – wise up on that and learn something for a change.

And I’m glad that so many people don’t listen to people like you because what you are saying is that it’s ok for a democratic country to take over another region that is not theirs, occupy it, kick out the resident population leaving thousands of people suffering in refugee camps and then build homes in it to make room for immigrants coming from elsewhere in the world. That’s what you are supporting so spare me the nonsense you are coming out with here because that’s exactly what it is. What you have just posted on here completely supports the views I have given in my post in that you are not even handed and you are in no way a humanitarian – not by a long way – it’s just an act.

And there never was a ratified UN resolution to partition Palestine so stop lying claiming in that there was.



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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:19

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:




Hilarious babble again where all he can do is make infantile points about me and nothing to refute my points.
I am glad the world does not listen to fuckwits like you Irn, because if it did we would be under the Nazi jackboot, where you would wave a piece of paper in the hope we would not be attacked and at no point have you ever addressed any of my points, but instead rambled on with more horseshit how you back Hamas and yes you do back Hamas with your arguments as any sane rational person would condemn Hamas and wish they were removed being as their whole policy is the annihilation of Israel and the Jews . Palestine went to war and lost and lost lands, that is their own fuck up and they have to face the consequences of naked aggression which they have continued to do so for 60 years, where no other nations has done so after starting and losing continued conflict.

Israel was created by a UN resolution, and rightly so and you neglect at every turn that not only Palestine but countless other Arab nations have for 60 years not only vowed to wipe out Israel abut enacted aggressive policies in the attempt to do so, where at every turn Israel has battered their arses against all odds also in the first conflict and at every turn, you want to show sympathy to the aggressors for losing conflicts they started, what sort of fucked up idiot are you? That would be like saying to Germany in 1945, do not worry you started a world war and now millions are dead, we are not going to occupy your nation, you are free to be blameless for your actions and that all your lands will be given back to you, that is how daft your argument is. Where is your call for East Prussia to be returned to Germany Irn, or lands lost from Poland, Romania, Italy the list is so long it makes you look an utter idiot and a complete hypocritical infantile fool? 

I also love how you missed out all the fundamental parts of where Palestine, has since and before Israel's creation never accepting this, even though other nations have had to and have constantly gone to war and attacked them, showing the fact they stupidly went to war and lost, not once but many times, where in between they have always committed terrorism. You also miss out the fact that 600,000 to 800,000 Jews were displaced from Arab lands for no crime, but because Israel won against all odds against countless Arab nations attacking them, not accepting the UN resolution, of course you are quite on this and the fact displaced Palestinians were fundamental in starting the Lebanese civil war, where one million Lebanese were displaced let alone how many thousands died, all facts you are silent on, which is no surprise, of course we see you protesting for the Lebanese and Jews to get their lands and property back?
Nope, showing your complete hypocrisy, because as Palestinian have been the cause of many problems and conflicts all because they went to war and lost, again it would be like you backing Germany after 1945 to continue aggression for another 60 years with conflict and terrorism, of which rightly they were very much denied to do so by occupation, and OI have never seen you say this occupation was wrong, are you saying it was wrong?

Your pathetic infantile attempts to use guilt in your counters proves you know fuck all about this situation and when you wish to debate this in an adult fashion with an intellectual debate, let me know, instead of the bull you have spouted. So you can continue to spit your commie dummy out all day long, as in every situation Palestine has been the aggressor, of which you refuse to recognize and in every situation Israel has kicked their sorry arse an rightly so. Again you would thus allow a neighbor for 60 years to continue to attack your home and do nothing proving your claims are again nothing but horseshit, when the reality is you would defend your home with all means.

The Palestinian people have elected Hamas, thus they are  accountable to Hamas's war crimes, of which you ignore at every tune, of which I have and have continued to condemn Israel for said war crimes with indiscriminate shelling, you though make no voice of this and continue to be silent on the fact Hamas, previous the PLO etc have been aggressors to Israel . Firing rockets indiscriminately is a war crime, and to claim proportion is utter tripe based on the fact that Israel spends some of its budget on defense, shows it cares for its civilian, where the Iron Dome and bomb shelters ensures comparatively fewer civilian Israeli casualties, where as Hamas uses people as cannon fodder to garner sympathy .

Again firing rockets at a civilian population is by definition a war crime and just because "not as many" Israeli civilians have been killed does nothing to mitigate the fact that firing rockets at civilians is a war crime. You ignore the fact, Hamas hoards illegal weapons in UN schools, especially near refugees, and pretend they are not putting innocent Palestinians in harms way, where again this is a crime against humanity and proves beyond doubt Hamas has no care for the civi;lians of Palestine, where again they build and use money to create tunnels to attack Israel, where you claim these are used to bring in supplies, what a fuckwit you are, yes the supplies are rockets to attack Israel.

Such creations are an aggressive strategy, which at each turn you ignore and then you bemoan Israel's offensive tactics to take them out, where again there would be far less civilian casualties if Palestinians also had bomb shelters provided for them which have never been built, of which again you are silent or use of these tunnels. in fact it is only the military and political wing of Hamas that has access to them  Such crimes do nothing to promote peace and only aggravate an already volatile situation. Hamas must immediately cease such acts, but they have no intention of doing so and continue to place the Palestinian people at risk by using them as cannon fodder to garner world sympathy. All this you ignore at every turn, where I condemn settlements, I back the way the approach of the West Bank which is one of peace. Until Hamas is dismantled and got shot of, I will continue to back the military strategy by Israel against them, as most people with any logical and rational view would when they are confronted by a group, who's intent is the annihilation of Israel.

Your really are fucking clueless and to use your pathetic guilt card tactics, shows what a fucking idiot you really are, as in 2005 when Israel withdrew from Gaza and its settlements, what then happened was that they started to bring in weapons to attack Israel of which no blockade would have been needed but had to be to counter an aggressive stance from Gaza, again which you constantly ignore, it seems you wish to back naked aggression and ignore all the facts. Peace will come with a more liberal Israeli government and when Hamas is removed and Gaza demilitarizes and shows it wishes to go down the road of peace, as in 60 years it never has, yet you expect Israel to bend over and just take it up the arse.

You boy have absolutely lost it with a whole load of nonsense and all I see is a tidal wave of words that is more smoke and mirrors to cover up your support for what is going on in the West Bank and the way the Palestinians there are being treated by an occupation force than anything else. Never once have I denied Israel the right to exist and never once have I backed Hamas firing rockets into Israel so cut out the lies. Your whimpering abjection to the Israeli ministers concentration camp statements and you sorry excuse for those watching on a hillside and cheering when the missiles flew in confirmed what I have thought about you for some time now.

And the Israeli’s withdrew from Gaza because they could hardly blockade the place and incarcerate the population with their own people in it, could they? Israel was still an occupying force over Gaza even after they left – wise up on that and learn something for a change.

And I’m glad that so many people don’t listen to people like you because what you are saying is that it’s ok for a democratic country to take over another region that is not theirs, occupy it, kick out the resident population leaving thousands of people suffering in refugee camps and then build homes in it to make room for immigrants coming from elsewhere in the world. That’s what you are supporting so spare me the nonsense you are coming out with here because that’s exactly what it is. What you have just posted on here completely supports the views I have given in my post in that you are not even handed and you are in no way a humanitarian – not by a long way – it’s just an act.

And there never was a ratified UN resolution to partition Palestine so stop lying claiming in that there was.



Hilarious again, as all you could do was talk about me your pathetic worm, showing you have not the first clue, now unless you wish to address my points, I suggest you jog on, as seen all you can is whinge and moan about me.



Pathetic

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:23

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions and 1 absent, in favour of the modified Partition Plan. The final vote was as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:25

Didge wrote:On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions and 1 absent, in favour of the modified Partition Plan. The final vote was as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

That was the General Assembly not the Security Council because it is only the Security Council that can pass UN resolutions otherwise they are just recommendations. Read the UN articles and wise up on it.


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In other words a bunch of cap-doffers and forelock tuggers.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:26

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:




Hilarious babble again where all he can do is make infantile points about me and nothing to refute my points.
I am glad the world does not listen to fuckwits like you Irn, because if it did we would be under the Nazi jackboot, where you would wave a piece of paper in the hope we would not be attacked and at no point have you ever addressed any of my points, but instead rambled on with more horseshit how you back Hamas and yes you do back Hamas with your arguments as any sane rational person would condemn Hamas and wish they were removed being as their whole policy is the annihilation of Israel and the Jews . Palestine went to war and lost and lost lands, that is their own fuck up and they have to face the consequences of naked aggression which they have continued to do so for 60 years, where no other nations has done so after starting and losing continued conflict.

Israel was created by a UN resolution, and rightly so and you neglect at every turn that not only Palestine but countless other Arab nations have for 60 years not only vowed to wipe out Israel abut enacted aggressive policies in the attempt to do so, where at every turn Israel has battered their arses against all odds also in the first conflict and at every turn, you want to show sympathy to the aggressors for losing conflicts they started, what sort of fucked up idiot are you? That would be like saying to Germany in 1945, do not worry you started a world war and now millions are dead, we are not going to occupy your nation, you are free to be blameless for your actions and that all your lands will be given back to you, that is how daft your argument is. Where is your call for East Prussia to be returned to Germany Irn, or lands lost from Poland, Romania, Italy the list is so long it makes you look an utter idiot and a complete hypocritical infantile fool? 

I also love how you missed out all the fundamental parts of where Palestine, has since and before Israel's creation never accepting this, even though other nations have had to and have constantly gone to war and attacked them, showing the fact they stupidly went to war and lost, not once but many times, where in between they have always committed terrorism. You also miss out the fact that 600,000 to 800,000 Jews were displaced from Arab lands for no crime, but because Israel won against all odds against countless Arab nations attacking them, not accepting the UN resolution, of course you are quite on this and the fact displaced Palestinians were fundamental in starting the Lebanese civil war, where one million Lebanese were displaced let alone how many thousands died, all facts you are silent on, which is no surprise, of course we see you protesting for the Lebanese and Jews to get their lands and property back?
Nope, showing your complete hypocrisy, because as Palestinian have been the cause of many problems and conflicts all because they went to war and lost, again it would be like you backing Germany after 1945 to continue aggression for another 60 years with conflict and terrorism, of which rightly they were very much denied to do so by occupation, and OI have never seen you say this occupation was wrong, are you saying it was wrong?

Your pathetic infantile attempts to use guilt in your counters proves you know fuck all about this situation and when you wish to debate this in an adult fashion with an intellectual debate, let me know, instead of the bull you have spouted. So you can continue to spit your commie dummy out all day long, as in every situation Palestine has been the aggressor, of which you refuse to recognize and in every situation Israel has kicked their sorry arse an rightly so. Again you would thus allow a neighbor for 60 years to continue to attack your home and do nothing proving your claims are again nothing but horseshit, when the reality is you would defend your home with all means.

The Palestinian people have elected Hamas, thus they are  accountable to Hamas's war crimes, of which you ignore at every tune, of which I have and have continued to condemn Israel for said war crimes with indiscriminate shelling, you though make no voice of this and continue to be silent on the fact Hamas, previous the PLO etc have been aggressors to Israel . Firing rockets indiscriminately is a war crime, and to claim proportion is utter tripe based on the fact that Israel spends some of its budget on defense, shows it cares for its civilian, where the Iron Dome and bomb shelters ensures comparatively fewer civilian Israeli casualties, where as Hamas uses people as cannon fodder to garner sympathy .

Again firing rockets at a civilian population is by definition a war crime and just because "not as many" Israeli civilians have been killed does nothing to mitigate the fact that firing rockets at civilians is a war crime. You ignore the fact, Hamas hoards illegal weapons in UN schools, especially near refugees, and pretend they are not putting innocent Palestinians in harms way, where again this is a crime against humanity and proves beyond doubt Hamas has no care for the civi;lians of Palestine, where again they build and use money to create tunnels to attack Israel, where you claim these are used to bring in supplies, what a fuckwit you are, yes the supplies are rockets to attack Israel.

Such creations are an aggressive strategy, which at each turn you ignore and then you bemoan Israel's offensive tactics to take them out, where again there would be far less civilian casualties if Palestinians also had bomb shelters provided for them which have never been built, of which again you are silent or use of these tunnels. in fact it is only the military and political wing of Hamas that has access to them  Such crimes do nothing to promote peace and only aggravate an already volatile situation. Hamas must immediately cease such acts, but they have no intention of doing so and continue to place the Palestinian people at risk by using them as cannon fodder to garner world sympathy. All this you ignore at every turn, where I condemn settlements, I back the way the approach of the West Bank which is one of peace. Until Hamas is dismantled and got shot of, I will continue to back the military strategy by Israel against them, as most people with any logical and rational view would when they are confronted by a group, who's intent is the annihilation of Israel.

Your really are fucking clueless and to use your pathetic guilt card tactics, shows what a fucking idiot you really are, as in 2005 when Israel withdrew from Gaza and its settlements, what then happened was that they started to bring in weapons to attack Israel of which no blockade would have been needed but had to be to counter an aggressive stance from Gaza, again which you constantly ignore, it seems you wish to back naked aggression and ignore all the facts. Peace will come with a more liberal Israeli government and when Hamas is removed and Gaza demilitarizes and shows it wishes to go down the road of peace, as in 60 years it never has, yet you expect Israel to bend over and just take it up the arse.

You boy have absolutely lost it with a whole load of nonsense and all I see is a tidal wave of words that is more smoke and mirrors to cover up your support for what is going on in the West Bank and the way the Palestinians there are being treated by an occupation force than anything else. Never once have I denied Israel the right to exist and never once have I backed Hamas firing rockets into Israel so cut out the lies. Your whimpering abjection to the Israeli ministers concentration camp statements and you sorry excuse for those watching on a hillside and cheering when the missiles flew in confirmed what I have thought about you for some time now.

And the Israeli’s withdrew from Gaza because they could hardly blockade the place and incarcerate the population with their own people in it, could they? Israel was still an occupying force over Gaza even after they left – wise up on that and learn something for a change.

And I’m glad that so many people don’t listen to people like you because what you are saying is that it’s ok for a democratic country to take over another region that is not theirs, occupy it, kick out the resident population leaving thousands of people suffering in refugee camps and then build homes in it to make room for immigrants coming from elsewhere in the world. That’s what you are supporting so spare me the nonsense you are coming out with here because that’s exactly what it is. What you have just posted on here completely supports the views I have given in my post in that you are not even handed and you are in no way a humanitarian – not by a long way – it’s just an act.

And there never was a ratified UN resolution to partition Palestine so stop lying claiming in that there was.



Hilarious again, as all you could do was talk about me your pathetic worm, showing you have not the first clue, now unless you wish to address my points, I suggest you jog on, as seen all you can is whinge and moan about me.



Pathetic

No answers then - thought so.

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In other words a bunch of cap-doffers and forelock tuggers.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:27

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions and 1 absent, in favour of the modified Partition Plan. The final vote was as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

That was the General Assembly not the Security Council because it is only the Security Council that can pass UN resolutions otherwise they are just recommendations. Read the UN articles and wise up on it.


Ha Ha ha, you just looked a right mug.

Let me know when you wish to address all my points, and not avoid them as you always do, boy.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:29

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

Hilarious again, as all you could do was talk about me your pathetic worm, showing you have not the first clue, now unless you wish to address my points, I suggest you jog on, as seen all you can is whinge and moan about me.



Pathetic

No answers then - thought so.


You mean you avoided all mine, because the being the wet fish you are, you have no answer to my points.

I find it too easy to batter your points as seen above, because I can easily show history elsewhere which makes a mockery of your claim, and shows how utterly hypocritical you are

Again my main post still stands, when you are brave enough answer it

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:32

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions and 1 absent, in favour of the modified Partition Plan. The final vote was as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

That was the General Assembly not the Security Council because it is only the Security Council that can pass UN resolutions otherwise they are just recommendations. Read the UN articles and wise up on it.


Ha Ha ha, you just looked a right mug.

Let me know when you wish to address all my points, and not avoid them as you always do, boy.

No UN resolution then? Just a recommendation which our own government didn't even support.

Who's the mug then.

_________________
The conservative feels safe and content only if he is assured that some higher wisdom watches and supervises change, only if he knows that some authority is charged with keeping the change "orderly.

Friedrich Hayek

In other words a bunch of cap-doffers and forelock tuggers.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:33

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

Hilarious again, as all you could do was talk about me your pathetic worm, showing you have not the first clue, now unless you wish to address my points, I suggest you jog on, as seen all you can is whinge and moan about me.



Pathetic

No answers then - thought so.


You mean you avoided all mine, because the being the wet fish you are, you have no answer to my points.

I find it too easy to batter your points as seen above, because I can easily show history elsewhere which makes a mockery of your claim, and shows how utterly hypocritical you are

Again my main post still stands, when you are brave enough answer it

They've all been answered - you just don't like them.

_________________
The conservative feels safe and content only if he is assured that some higher wisdom watches and supervises change, only if he knows that some authority is charged with keeping the change "orderly.

Friedrich Hayek

In other words a bunch of cap-doffers and forelock tuggers.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:34

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

Ha Ha ha, you just looked a right mug.

Let me know when you wish to address all my points, and not avoid them as you always do, boy.

No UN resolution then? Just a recommendation which our own government didn't even support.

Who's the mug then.

Our own government then was anti Israel, they denied holocaust victims entering the British Mandate, or do you neglect that dummy, but as seen countries voted in favour and as seen it was the Arab nations against, whou got their sorry arses kicked when they vastly outnumbered Israel, how funny is that?
Thus they instigated war and lost lands, other nations have had the same happened and moved on, but Palestine has continued to attack Israel, what idiot would sit back and do nothing?
You of course, but then you have never faced a constant threat daily have you like Israel has.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:39

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:


You mean you avoided all mine, because the being the wet fish you are, you have no answer to my points.

I find it too easy to batter your points as seen above, because I can easily show history elsewhere which makes a mockery of your claim, and shows how utterly hypocritical you are

Again my main post still stands, when you are brave enough answer it

They've all been answered - you just don't like them.


More lies, you answered all the points I made, in 3 small paragraphs?

Bullshit

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:45

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

Ha Ha ha, you just looked a right mug.

Let me know when you wish to address all my points, and not avoid them as you always do, boy.

No UN resolution then? Just a recommendation which our own government didn't even support.

Who's the mug then.

Our own government then was anti Israel, they denied holocaust victims entering the British Mandate, or do you neglect that dummy, but as seen countries voted in favour and as seen it was the Arab nations against, whou got their sorry arses kicked when they vastly outnumbered Israel, how funny is that?
Thus they instigated war and lost lands, other nations have had the same happened and moved on, but Palestine has continued to attack Israel, what idiot would sit back and do nothing?
You of course, but then you have never faced a constant threat daily have you like Israel has.

No UN resolution then?

And there's nothing funny about people being killed in a war and I'm surprised that you think it is. Says it all really.


_________________
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 2:49

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

Our own government then was anti Israel, they denied holocaust victims entering the British Mandate, or do you neglect that dummy, but as seen countries voted in favour and as seen it was the Arab nations against, whou got their sorry arses kicked when they vastly outnumbered Israel, how funny is that?
Thus they instigated war and lost lands, other nations have had the same happened and moved on, but Palestine has continued to attack Israel, what idiot would sit back and do nothing?
You of course, but then you have never faced a constant threat daily have you like Israel has.

No UN resolution then?

And there's nothing funny about people being killed in a war and I'm surprised that you think it is. Says it all really.


I think it is hilarious when aggressors get their arses kicked, its called justice when they have committed a wrong and the point you miss is they have continue to attack Israel and keep losing, most other nations accept they have lost, I mean Irn, why are you not calling for the repatriation of East Prussia?
You see this is why your arguments are all bullshit.
So basically you are backing the view of Hamas that Israel has no right to exist as a nation.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:21

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

Our own government then was anti Israel, they denied holocaust victims entering the British Mandate, or do you neglect that dummy, but as seen countries voted in favour and as seen it was the Arab nations against, whou got their sorry arses kicked when they vastly outnumbered Israel, how funny is that?
Thus they instigated war and lost lands, other nations have had the same happened and moved on, but Palestine has continued to attack Israel, what idiot would sit back and do nothing?
You of course, but then you have never faced a constant threat daily have you like Israel has.

No UN resolution then?

And there's nothing funny about people being killed in a war and I'm surprised that you think it is. Says it all really.


I think it is hilarious when aggressors get their arses kicked, its called justice when they have committed a wrong and the point you miss is they have continue to attack Israel and keep losing, most other nations accept they have lost, I mean Irn, why are you not calling for the repatriation of East Prussia?
You see this is why your arguments are all bullshit.
So basically you are backing the view of Hamas that Israel has no right to exist as a nation.

Exposed

You give no thought for the very people that fight and die in these wars on behalf of the people that send them to do it and just see it as funny.

I think that is disgusting.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:23

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

I think it is hilarious when aggressors get their arses kicked, its called justice when they have committed a wrong and the point you miss is they have continue to attack Israel and keep losing, most other nations accept they have lost, I mean Irn, why are you not calling for the repatriation of East Prussia?
You see this is why your arguments are all bullshit.
So basically you are backing the view of Hamas that Israel has no right to exist as a nation.

Exposed

You give no thought for the very people that fight and die in these wars on behalf of the people that send them to do it and just see it as funny.

I think that is disgusting.

Oh the old guilt card bullshit is played, yes I do care when people die, its called taking the piss out of an idiot who is so easy to wind up who as seen cannot counter any of my points.
So funny and very easy to play with a boy
Again why have you not called for the repatriation of East Prussia?
You also think like Hamas that Israel has no right to exist, if you believe the UN resolution which would have been passed, if not fighting had not broken out destroying any chance of it happening, all of course started by the Palestinians?

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:31

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

I think it is hilarious when aggressors get their arses kicked, its called justice when they have committed a wrong and the point you miss is they have continue to attack Israel and keep losing, most other nations accept they have lost, I mean Irn, why are you not calling for the repatriation of East Prussia?
You see this is why your arguments are all bullshit.
So basically you are backing the view of Hamas that Israel has no right to exist as a nation.

Exposed

You give no thought for the very people that fight and die in these wars on behalf of the people that send them to do it and just see it as funny.

I think that is disgusting.

Oh the old guilt card bullshit is played, yes I do care when people die, its called taking the piss out of an idiot who is so easy to wind up who as seen cannot counter any of my points.
So funny and very easy to play with a boy
Again why have you not called for the repatriation of East Prussia?
You also think like Hamas that Israel has no right to exist, if you believe the UN resolution which would have been passed, if not fighting had not broken out destroying any chance of it happening, all of course started by the Palestinians?

All your points have been answered you just don't like the answers.

You said it was funny and that is disgusting and sick.

As for the guilt card? Well I've just read your post on the other thread where you are bleating away about people targeting you.




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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:34

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

Oh the old guilt card bullshit is played, yes I do care when people die, its called taking the piss out of an idiot who is so easy to wind up who as seen cannot counter any of my points.
So funny and very easy to play with a boy
Again why have you not called for the repatriation of East Prussia?
You also think like Hamas that Israel has no right to exist, if you believe the UN resolution which would have been passed, if not fighting had not broken out destroying any chance of it happening, all of course started by the Palestinians?

All your points have been answered you just don't like the answers.

You said it was funny and that is disgusting and sick.

As for the guilt card? Well I've just read your post on the other thread where you are bleating away about people targeting you.



No you have not answered them and keep avoiding them, mainly as I am giving you a history lesson, which to be honest was done and dusted with where there was an intellectual interesting one on ww2 which you have spoilt with your inability to answer.
The point about people targeting me was to show hypocrisy, have never cared that they do, you being one of them on speakfree, it is just pointing out bullshit by you and others.

Anyway if you cannot answer fine, I will bump up the thread which is more interesting between Quill and I, who both know more than you could hope to ever learn on history

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:39

Didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:

Oh the old guilt card bullshit is played, yes I do care when people die, its called taking the piss out of an idiot who is so easy to wind up who as seen cannot counter any of my points.
So funny and very easy to play with a boy
Again why have you not called for the repatriation of East Prussia?
You also think like Hamas that Israel has no right to exist, if you believe the UN resolution which would have been passed, if not fighting had not broken out destroying any chance of it happening, all of course started by the Palestinians?

All your points have been answered you just don't like the answers.

You said it was funny and that is disgusting and sick.

As for the guilt card? Well I've just read your post on the other thread where you are bleating away about people targeting you.



No you have not answered them and keep avoiding them, mainly as I am giving you a history lesson, which to be honest was done and dusted with where there was an intellectual interesting one on ww2 which you have spoilt with your inability to answer.
The point about people targeting me was to show hypocrisy, have never cared that they do, you being one of them on speakfree, it is just pointing out bullshit by you and others.

Anyway if you cannot answer fine, I will bump up the thread which is more interesting between Quill and I, who both know more than you could hope to ever learn on history

The only lesson you are handing out here is how not to conduct a debate. Your points have been answered in full but you just keep denying it all you want. By all means bump up the thread.

Targeting you means look at me I'm a victim. Get real.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:40

Yes get real and answer my points, as seen you failed on the last few posts on East Prussia and Israel have a right to existence, as I say, there was a much better debate going on, where you might actually learn something as I have taught you much about Gaza, it is not my fault you want to deny the truth

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:48

Didge wrote:Yes get real and answer my points, as seen you failed on the last few posts on East Prussia and Israel have a right to existence, as I say, there was a much better debate going on, where you might actually learn something as I have taught you much about Gaza, it is not my fault you want to deny the truth

All you have taught me is nothing and what I have showed you is the real situation in in the West Bank which is the suffering of the Palstinian people who are having to live under occupation in refugee camps whilst Israel builds even more settlements.

It's shocking that you try to cover this up and make out that it's ok for Israel to occupy these lands all at the expense of the people who once lived there.


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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:50

Hilarious, he still cannot answer the points I made this morning, jog on Irn , if all you are going to do is avoid debating my points. Even in your last posts shows you have not read my main one where I condemn Israeli settlements, hence why you need to go back and actually read it this time.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:54

Didge wrote:Hilarious, he still cannot answer the points I made this morning, jog on Irn , if all you are going to do is avoid debating my points. Even in your last posts shows you have not read my main one where I condemn Israeli settlements, hence why you need to go back and actually read it this time.

Exposed

Yes, I've read what you said including you saying that it was ok for Israel to keep occupying the West Bank. You said it and that says it all - just like Netanyahu. Their land forever.


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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 3:57

Irn Bru wrote:
Didge wrote:Hilarious, he still cannot answer the points I made this morning, jog on Irn , if all you are going to do is avoid debating my points. Even in your last posts shows you have not read my main one where I condemn Israeli settlements, hence why you need to go back and actually read it this time.

Exposed

Yes, I've read what you said including you saying that it was ok for Israel to keep occupying the West Bank. You said it and that says it all - just like Netanyahu. Their land forever.


Contradiction, how can it occupy, if there is settlements?
Either there is occupation and no settlements being then part of Israel or they are not occupying and there are settlements.
Again you miss the main parts of my post which you need to counter, because as seen Israel has a defense strategy formed around 60 years of attacks from not only Palestine but nations around them. Israel has withdrawn to only be attacked again, yet you would wish them to bend over and just take it up the arse as seen.
So you lied claiming I do not care about the settlements, as seen I condemn them, as seen you fail to address countless points, so stop avoiding and go back and answer them all

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by scrat on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 4:34

You would think that ordinary Jews would feel some shame for its actions in Palestine, you would understand defending the nation, but you would also see that innocent civilians are being bombed into oblivion.

Ordinary Jews are so vocal in support of a nazi Jew elite, hell bent on protracting this campaign and drawing us all into the violence of the Middle East, and unless we put our foot down now and threaten Israel with force, we will continue down this path of destruction, and every day will be like walking into a powder keg with a naked flame.

There appears to be no dispute that certain actions of Israel are criminal acts, yes,,,, killing unarmed civilians is a criminal act, we should do something about it, start from that reality and move on.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by nicko on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 4:42

Scrat, what would you say if hamas rockets were landing in Tel Aviv and killing hundreds of their citizens, because if they could they would.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 5:06

nicko wrote:Scrat, what would you say if hamas rockets were landing in Tel Aviv and killing hundreds of their citizens, because if they could they would.

The thing is Nicko, every rocket attack from Hamas is a war crime, they buy and smuggle in these weapons which the money should go to the infrastructure Gaza, accept it goes to fund terrorism and war crimes, neglected by some on the left, showing Hamas has no intention of peace with Israel by doing so. The very fact they do not build bomb shelters and deny access to again tunnels spent with funds, which are also used offensively to attack Israel, shows how people are so easily misguided on Gaza, but you never heard them condemn this at all, where we condemn attacks if Israel has committed an indiscriminate attack which could be constituted as a war crime, it shows their lack of understanding and utter bias towards a terrorist state in Gaza.
No Israeli, which includes many Arabs, should have to face constant attacks from an aggressive neighbor, who's charter has written to wipe out Israel and if Hamas had the means they would have no hesitation in wiping out all Jews

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by scrat on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 5:16

Didge wrote:
nicko wrote:Scrat, what would you say if hamas rockets were landing in Tel Aviv and killing hundreds of their citizens, because if they could they would.

The thing is Nicko, every rocket attack from Hamas is a war crime, they buy and smuggle in these weapons which the money should go to the infrastructure Gaza, accept it goes to fund terrorism and war crimes, neglected by some on the left, showing Hamas has no intention of peace with Israel by doing so. The very fact they do not build bomb shelters and deny access to again tunnels spent with funds, which are also used offensively to attack Israel, shows how people are so easily misguided on Gaza, but you never heard them condemn this at all, where we condemn attacks if Israel has committed an indiscriminate attack which could be constituted as a war crime, it shows their lack of understanding and utter bias towards a terrorist state in Gaza.
No Israeli, which includes many Arabs, should have to face constant attacks from an aggressive neighbor, who's charter has written to wipe out Israel and if Hamas had the means they would have no hesitation in wiping out all Jews
The Didglet whining about the Palestinians not building bomb shelters, what a fucking classic.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 5:20

scrat wrote:
Didge wrote:

The thing is Nicko, every rocket attack from Hamas is a war crime, they buy and smuggle in these weapons which the money should go to the infrastructure Gaza, accept it goes to fund terrorism and war crimes, neglected by some on the left, showing Hamas has no intention of peace with Israel by doing so. The very fact they do not build bomb shelters and deny access to again tunnels spent with funds, which are also used offensively to attack Israel, shows how people are so easily misguided on Gaza, but you never heard them condemn this at all, where we condemn attacks if Israel has committed an indiscriminate attack which could be constituted as a war crime, it shows their lack of understanding and utter bias towards a terrorist state in Gaza.
No Israeli, which includes many Arabs, should have to face constant attacks from an aggressive neighbor, who's charter has written to wipe out Israel and if Hamas had the means they would have no hesitation in wiping out all Jews
The Didglet whining about the Palestinians not building bomb shelters, what a fucking classic.

And scrappy dappy excuses Hamas buying weapons to attack Israel and not use the money to build shelters to protect the people of Gaza, where even worse you refuse to condemn the terrorist state for using civilians as shields by placing weapons in civilians areas, a crime against humanity, making these areas legitimate military targets, thus ensuring civilian lives are lost, all of which you are silent on

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 14:26

Original Quill wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Yes, I do want to get to the heart of the matter.  So let’s start with core premises: (1) Islamic nations want Israel to disappear; and (2) Israel is stronger than the Islamic nations, soooo…it’s not going to happen with just military action.

That leaves us with other games.  Let's rewind a bit, and pick up some other strands of the story.

1.  Occupation.  In 1967, Syrian artillery attacks against Israeli civilian settlements in the vicinity of the border were followed by Israeli responses against Syrian positions in the Golan Heights and encroachments of increasing intensity and frequency into the demilitarized zones along the Syrian border, and culminating in Egypt blocking the Straits pf Tiran, deploying its troops near Israel's border, and ordering the evacuation of the U.N. buffer force from the Sinai Peninsula.  This is known as the six-day war.  Within six days, Israel had won decisively.  Israeli forces had taken control of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria.

In the wake of this war, Israel generously gave back the Sinai Peninsula, and later Gaza, proving that Israel’s sole concern was for its own military defense.  Gaza and the Sinai were territories that were not strategic militarily for Israel.  

2.  Terrorism.  Islamic states start a series of actions known as terrorism, which are actually acts of shocking destruction and loss of lives, designed to publicize their situation—ie, they want Israel to disappear; but Israel is just too strong.  The acts of terrorism attracted world-wide attention, including short-sighted peoples of Britain, Australia and the Commonwealth, already influenced by the anti-semitic leanings of Europe.  The reaction was two-sided: not a good idea to explode two towers in NYC or a bus in London; but great for pictures of dead women and children, publicizing the retaliation of Israel.  This, logically, presented an epiphany to the Islamic nations: there is real currency in public relations of death, particularly in photographs of dead women and children.

3.  Gaza.  Gaza is one of the territories generously given back to the Palestinian people by Israel.  She was handed over with no strings attached, to the Palestinians.  It was the beginning of a two-state solution.  The Palestinians, however, short-sightedly elected a terrorist organization run by the Iranian government, known as Hamas, for its own government.  This led directly to the divorce of authority from consequences.

4.  Public Relations Terrorism.  We now come down to a unique type of demonstration taking shape in Gaza.  Tehran, now ruling Gaza, commenced to fire off missiles at Israel.  (To date, they have fired off between 1,300 to 1,400 missiles.)  This of course, being an act of war, provoked retaliation.  

The epiphany, shaped and polished, consists of Islamic aggression, provoking Israeli retaliation, before which Tehran places women and children (not from Tehran) in order to maximize the publicity effect. In this effort, Tehran has already placed missile sites (the targets of Israel) in churches, mosques, hotels, schools, hospitals and markets —all places of high density population, so that civilians (not from Tehran) would be sacrificed in the new front of public relations by death.

We are met on a battlefield of that front.  I think I have given enough of the grand picture to refocus our attention on the real game being played.  The only way to handle this is to bring the battle home: Tehran and Jerusalem.  Let’s dispense with these sideshows and get the main feature started.

Well it took you long enough to get there because for the most part you have been banging on about Israel/Hamas whilst I was talking about the occupation resulting from the war that you are talking about now. Just a shame that you have plagiarized someone else' work on the the Occupation part (maybe more) without giving due credit and even worse that you distort it by missing out the very first part which reads...

The Six Day War began on June 5, 1967, with Israel launching surprise strikes against Egyptian air-fields in response to the mobilization of Egyptian forces on the Israeli border. A period of high tension had preceded the war. In response to PLO sabotage acts against Israeli targets,[1][2][3] Israel raided into the Jordanian-controlled West Bank[4][5] and initiated flights over Syria, which ended with aerial clashes over Syrian territory,

That's the part you missed out from here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Governorate

What a way to conduct a debate by using the work of someone else and excluding a crucial part of what was actually written just to make it fit your argument.

Tut tut Quill

Aw, poor Irn.  That's all?  Correct me on Israeli strikes on June 5, 1967?  No, the war started with Syrian artillery strikes prior to June 5th.  No doubt, you'll say that Israel started the Gaza conflict, notwithstanding 1,300 missiles fired off by Gaza into Israel.  

As I recall, this is a bad habit of yours.  On the Malaysia Airlines thread, you crowed on and on about how I was a conspiracy theorist, disregarding that I had prefaced everything by saying we had no idea where the aircraft went, so we might as well speculate.  Picky, picky, picky...my boy.  You played schoolmarm on that thread too, refusing to discuss what could have happened.

Never mind.  So you have nothing of substance to add about the Gaza matter?  Why do you bother to respond with trivial schoolboy dissections.  Or, is this your way out of this difficulty, as well.  I think it's important to tell the whole story; you've been telling only half of it all along.  Now, that is dishonest, my boy.  

Nevertheless, I'm glad we are able to put this extraneous noise about Gaza to rest.

It’s you that has been telling only half the story by banging on constantly about Israel/Hamas whilst I was talking about the occupation resulting from the 1967 war that you are only now beginning to address. Never mind, other than using the work of someone else and distorting it you got there in the end and that’s the main thing

The Malaysia Airline thread is over Quill which is just as well for you because you made so many errors over so many aspects of the aircraft operations not to mention pallets in the sea. And wasn’t that the thread where you said that the US military loaned you a plane for you to pilot around Europe entertaining US troops even right into Eastern Europe? I’m surprised you found so many US troops stationed in US bases in Eastern Europe to entertain let alone that your loaned US military aircraft wasn’t shot down for even trying to get there and that you didn’t end up like Francis "Gary" Power who was charged with spying.

So were you a spy or a stand up comic?

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 14:35

@Quill.

This is about academic honesty ans particular plagiarizing the work of someone else without giving due credit and it's from your neck of the woods. I think you will recognise it and be able to see why you are no educator on that specific subject.

http://writing.berkeley.edu/about-us/academic-honesty

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Original Quill on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 14:42

You say plagiarism, Irn Bru.  Yet, as you point out, I solidly disagree in substance with the passage to which you allude.  Now here is the definition:

Google wrote:pla·gia·rism
ˈplājəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: plagiarism; plural noun: plagiarisms

---the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

How does one disagree with oneself?



Last edited by Original Quill on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 14:49; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 14:47

Original Quill wrote:You say plagiarism, Irn Bru.  Yet, as you point out, I solidly disagree with the passage to which you allude.  Now here is the definition:

Google wrote:pla·gia·rism
ˈplājəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: plagiarism; plural noun: plagiarisms

---the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

How does one disagree with oneself?

It's easily understood Quill. You just failed to understand it. And the link is from the University of California Berkeley no less. I'm sure you know it well lol

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Original Quill on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 14:50

Shaming is a two-edged sword, Irn Bru. Shame on you! In the past two days you have been involved in no less than 4 (that I know of) gang ups. You are even reopening threads that Ben has locked down for abuse, and continuing the arguments one-sidedly. Have you given any more thought to resigning?

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Original Quill

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 14:51

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Interesting thoughts on the Pacific.  I am of the opinion that Roosevelt and Churchill engineered Pearl Harbor, and that was why certain elements look to be blunders in hindsight.

The US had passed the Neutrality Acts of the 1930s, keeping America out of Europe’s wars.  Of course, Roosevelt (and Churchill) wanted the US in Europe’s war in order to save Britain.  Roosevelt had even gone so far as to pass the Lend Lease Act, which armed the allieds.  Then Roosevelt conceived a brilliant plan.  Germany, Italy and Japan had entered into the Tripartite Act in September, 1940.  The three countries established each other's spheres of interest and committed "to assist one another with all political, economic and military means when one of the three contracting powers is attacked." by a country not already involved in the war,

Do you see how Roosevelt turned that around?  With it, he could maneuver Hitler to attack us, the United States, and we would suddenly be in Europe’s War.  In June 1940 Roosevelt had the United States Pacific Fleet move its main Pacific base from San Diego, California to Pearl Harbor. The move was “designed to demonstrate the naval power available to the United States in the Pacific region, and hopefully, to act as a deterrent to Japanese aggression against American, British and Dutch colonial possessions in East Asia.”  http://www.pacificwar.org.au/pearlharbor/pearloverview4.html  Now the real reason: moving the Pacific Fleet to Pearl Harbor made it accessible to attack from Japan.  It was like waving a red flag in front of a bull.  Ever wonder why the aircraft carriers were on maneuvers that weekend?

The rest is history.  Japan attacked Pearl, and started a war with the US.  The US retaliated and attacked Japan back.  Thus, the Tripartite Act was invoked and Germany had to declare war on the US because “one of the three powers” was attacked.  Germany decidedly did not want to declare war on America until it had completely secured Europe.  But she was tricked into it.  Roosevelt and Churchill got around the Neutrality Act.

I don’t really mind that Britain couldn’t handle the Pacific—until some street chav comes along and twists the story.  As you say, Japan just took on waaaay too much; she was no match and the US was bound to win that war.  Nor do I resist your assertion that the British were the inventers of the tactics of war at the time.  Hell, war tactics is a worldwide game.  The US built tactics around the rifled barrel in the Civil War, and the world followed them with defensive (trench) war until the Germans introduced blitzkrieg.  Grady McWhiney, Perry D. Jamieson, Attack and Die: Civil War Military Tactics and the Southern Heritage.

You Europeans still don’t understand America’s ability to produce, however.  Japan does.  But you guys still try to make it the old way: Rolls Royce, Mercedes Benz, etc.  Germany designed the greatest tank of the day in the Tiger II, but she could only produce 492 of them when the US produced 49,234 Sherman M4’s.  You guys are still living in the Renaissance, trying to build beautiful statutes.  The US has mastered systems theory, in which we build not just a single thing, but the means to produce lots of those things.  We take on a much bigger scope of problem, and WWII was but an example.


You are completely wrong about Roosevelt, who if his intention had been to go to war to entice Germany to do so, he would have done so. In 1970's encrypted messages from he Axis about Roosevelt shows, America knew the disposition of U-Boats within the Atlantic and this was used to divert individual ships and convoys away from them. Thus far from seeking incidents, it was trying to avert them and of the few that occurred, Roosevelt used them to awaken the American people to the dangers coming, but he could have used the information to ensure there was a incident every few days. There is also phone conversations where a recording machine was accidentally not turned off, which in this Roosevelt (published in 1982) shows he was interested in keeping the USA out of the war. He also directed an exhaustive amount of time with the Japanese to again avert war. His views were based around again Japan sensing that Germany might loose and Hitler pushed his forces in the advance on Moscow, with the opposite fear, in that that the Japanese might settled with the Americans. What Roosevelt did again which was telling later was how he did not do as Stalin did with Germany providing stock piles of oil, he denied japan this opportunity, which was to prove telling as stated, but here again, America offered japan all the oil they wanted if they evacuated from French IndoChina, which was a direct threat to western influence in the East and pointed to a war with the Western Allies. The Japanese diplomats were told to not talk about this offer, again mainly on the advances of Germany, where they were misguide to think Germany would win and the fact Germany would join them in a war against the US, that the Japanese decided to strike at the US

You need to read Gerhard Weinberg the best and most knowledgeable Historian on WW2. He points out many myths, which as seen you are promoting, not many people know that Churchill, who berated Neville Chamberlain over Czechoslovakia, told privately the Czechoslovakia Goverment if he had been in power he would have done the exact same thing, being as Britain was not geared up yet for war. In fact it was Neville Chamberlain who was instrumental in new rise in production of aircraft for the RAF.

I am very aware of the significance of the industrial capacity of the USA throughout WW2, but this took time in the beginning of the war and did not reach full potential until much later, it was very instrumental in helping the Russians, who without hundreds of thousands of trucks, would have been hard pressed to carry out its huge encirclement of the German army. In fact many British and American tanks, even though seen by the Russians as not very good, were sent in vast numbers to assists the Russians, to the point there were battalions of Churchill tanks at the battle of Kursk.

Germany produced some of the best weapons of WW2, their problem though was more on the fact on not utilizing one or two good products by trying to mass produce them, but they went for some many different models and complicated technology, which severely hampered production and mass producing of weapons, plus the fact Hitlers insistence on meddling with how new aircraft and tanks were to be designed, one of the worst cases, was the ME262, where it was delayed in production, so it could be redesigned from a fighter to a fighter bomber. I doubt many Americans or British would share your sentiments on the fact of the mass production of the Sherman, being as it was nicknamed the Ronson after the  cigarette lighter, as the tank was susceptible to burst into flames when hit, and many men were burned to death having little time to evacuate the tank. As I sat there are many myths surrounding the conflict in WW2, hence why it is good to read up on the likes of historians Gerhard Weinberg.


To get a decent debate back on track

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 14:54

Original Quill wrote:Shaming is a two-edged sword, Irn Bru.  Shame on you!  In the past two days you have been involved in no less than 4 (that I know of) gang ups.  You are even reopening threads that Ben has locked down for abuse, and continuing the arguments one-sidedly.  Have you given any more thought to resigning?

Oh stop playing the yourself as the victim of gang ups. It didn't happen and I have not reopened any threads that Ben has locked so that's a lie.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 16:50

Irn Bru wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Shaming is a two-edged sword, Irn Bru.  Shame on you!  In the past two days you have been involved in no less than 4 (that I know of) gang ups.  You are even reopening threads that Ben has locked down for abuse, and continuing the arguments one-sidedly.  Have you given any more thought to resigning?

Oh stop playing the yourself as the victim of gang ups. It didn't happen and I have not reopened any threads that Ben has locked so that's a lie.

Actually its the truth, you posted on my Whoa whats going on thread after it was locked

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by scrat on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 17:12

Nems wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:

Oh stop playing the yourself as the victim of gang ups. It didn't happen and I have not reopened any threads that Ben has locked so that's a lie.

Actually its the truth, you posted on my Whoa whats going on thread after it was locked
Hi Nems, I think these forums are being plagued by over zealous and extremely industrious popbots all out to sell us a yarn, the pop up blockers are fighting away, sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, t'internet is like that.

As for Irn, he has always acted with the utmost sincerity and integrity, he's always level headed, honest and fair.

Sassy and SM have always attracted criticism, it seems to me that you disagree with the current plot of whatever soap they've decided to pilot on here, this has ever been so, it's not particularly entertaining, but hey it gives some posters a platform to bleat.

This forum has lost the excellent JD, I think we need to bring him back, whatever spat he's had with eds should be resolved, and what about Smells crew, surely they have a voice too.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 18:45

Nems wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Shaming is a two-edged sword, Irn Bru.  Shame on you!  In the past two days you have been involved in no less than 4 (that I know of) gang ups.  You are even reopening threads that Ben has locked down for abuse, and continuing the arguments one-sidedly.  Have you given any more thought to resigning?

Oh stop playing the yourself as the victim of gang ups. It didn't happen and I have not reopened any threads that Ben has locked so that's a lie.

Actually its the truth, you posted on my Whoa whats going on thread after it was locked

There was no indication to me that it had been locked when I posted and I certainly did not reopen it. In fact I wouldn't even know how to do that.

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The conservative feels safe and content only if he is assured that some higher wisdom watches and supervises change, only if he knows that some authority is charged with keeping the change "orderly.

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In other words a bunch of cap-doffers and forelock tuggers.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 18:54

Irn Bru wrote:
Nems wrote:

Actually its the truth, you posted on my Whoa whats going on thread after it was locked

There was no indication to me that it had been locked when I posted and I certainly did not reopen it. In fact I wouldn't even know how to do that.

Well if you didn't know it was locked you didn't know. The fact remains it was, so ntentional or not what Quill said was right you had posted on a locked thread.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 18:55

Nems wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Nems wrote:

Actually its the truth, you posted on my Whoa whats going on thread after it was locked

There was no indication to me that it had been locked when I posted and I certainly did not reopen it. In fact I wouldn't even know how to do that.

Well if you didn't know it was locked you didn't know. The fact remains it was, so ntentional   or not what Quill said was right you had posted on a locked thread.

He said I reopened it. I didn't.

_________________
The conservative feels safe and content only if he is assured that some higher wisdom watches and supervises change, only if he knows that some authority is charged with keeping the change "orderly.

Friedrich Hayek

In other words a bunch of cap-doffers and forelock tuggers.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 18:57

Irn Bru wrote:
Nems wrote:

Well if you didn't know it was locked you didn't know. The fact remains it was, so ntentional   or not what Quill said was right you had posted on a locked thread.

He said I reopened it. I didn't.

Don't be silly

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 19:01

Nems wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Nems wrote:

Well if you didn't know it was locked you didn't know. The fact remains it was, so ntentional   or not what Quill said was right you had posted on a locked thread.

He said I reopened it. I didn't.

Don't be silly

Quill said...

You are even reopening threads that Ben has locked down for abuse, and continuing the arguments one-sidedly. Have you given any more thought to resigning?

I didn't reopen any threads . Check out Ben's last post on the thread.

_________________
The conservative feels safe and content only if he is assured that some higher wisdom watches and supervises change, only if he knows that some authority is charged with keeping the change "orderly.

Friedrich Hayek

In other words a bunch of cap-doffers and forelock tuggers.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 19:06

Irn Bru wrote:
Nems wrote:

Don't be silly

Quill said...

You are even reopening threads that Ben has locked down for abuse, and continuing the arguments one-sidedly.  Have you given any more thought to resigning?

I didn't reopen any threads . Check out Ben's last post on the thread.

Not playing Irn
You posted on a thread that was closed now whether you call this opening the thread or posting on a locked thread is semantics. Fact is you did.

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Irn Bru on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 19:10

Nems wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
Nems wrote:

Don't be silly

Quill said...

You are even reopening threads that Ben has locked down for abuse, and continuing the arguments one-sidedly.  Have you given any more thought to resigning?

I didn't reopen any threads . Check out Ben's last post on the thread.

Not playing Irn
You posted on a thread that was closed now whether you call this opening the thread or posting on a locked thread is semantics. Fact is you did.

Already said that there was no indication to me that it was locked and you have already indicated that it was not done knowingly but the fact is that I never as Quill claimed reopened any threads. Thread(s) being more than one.


_________________
The conservative feels safe and content only if he is assured that some higher wisdom watches and supervises change, only if he knows that some authority is charged with keeping the change "orderly.

Friedrich Hayek

In other words a bunch of cap-doffers and forelock tuggers.
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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014 - 19:18

Irn Bru wrote:
Nems wrote:

Not playing Irn
You posted on a thread that was closed now whether you call this opening the thread or posting on a locked thread is semantics. Fact is you did.

Already said that there was no indication to me that it was locked and you have already indicated that it was not done knowingly but the fact is that I never as Quill claimed reopened any threads.  Thread(s) being more than one.


Well don't you worry
If you didn't know it was locked then you didn't know. No harm done in the end eh?!

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Re: Warning, contains things that might upset you. Netanyahu boasting about Manipulating America and derailing Oslo peace process

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