Is the Left anti-Semitic? Sadly, it is heading that way

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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

There has been a lot of talk over the past two weeks about whether it is anti-Semitic to oppose Israel’s attack on Gaza. Radical Leftists and liberal commentators have insisted (perhaps a bit too much?) that there is nothing remotely anti-Semitic about their anger with Israel or their fury on behalf of battered, bruised and bombed Palestinians. And of course they are right that it is entirely possible to oppose Israel’s militarism without harbouring so much as a smidgen of dislike for the Jewish people. Some will oppose the war in Gaza simply because they are against wars in general, especially ones that impact on civilians.
However, it seems pretty clear to me that much of the left in Europe and America is becoming more anti-Semitic, or at least risks falling into the trap of anti-Semitism, sometimes quite thoughtlessly. In the language it uses, in the ideas it promotes, in the way in which it talks about the modern world, including Israel, much of the Left has adopted a style of politics that has anti-Semitic undertones, and sometimes overtones. The key problem has been the Left’s embrace of conspiratorial thinking, its growing conviction that the world is governed by what it views as uncaring “cabals”, “networks”, self-serving lobbyists and gangs of bankers, all of which has tempted it to sometimes turn its attentions towards those people who historically were so often the object and the target of conspiratorial thinking – the Jews.

Yes, one can hate Israel’s attack on Gaza without hating the Jews. But there’s no denying that the hatred being expressed for Israel’s attack on Gaza is different to the opposition to all other acts of militarism in recent times. Just compare the huge 2003 Hyde Park demo against the Iraq War with the recent London demos against Israel’s attack on Gaza. The former had an air of resignation; it expressed a mild, middle-class sense of disappointment with Tony Blair, through safe, soft slogans like “Not In My Name”. The latter, by contrast, have been fiery and furious, with screeching about murder and mayhem and demands that the Israeli ambassador to the UK be booted out. Some attendees have held up placards claiming that Zionists control the British media while others have accused both London and Washington of “grovelling” before an apparently awesomely powerful Israeli Lobby.

This is a recurring theme in anti-Israel sentiment today: the idea that a powerful, sinister lobby of Israel lovers has warped our otherwise respectable leaders here in the West, basically winning control of Western foreign policy. You see it in cartoons depicting Israeli leaders as the puppet masters of politicians like William Hague and Tony Blair. You can hear it in Alexi Sayle’s much-tweeted claim that the “Western powers” kowtow to Israel because they are “frightened of it… frightened of the power that it wields”. You can see it in the arguments of John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt in their popular book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy, which holds an apparently super-powerful pro-Israel lobby in the heart of Washington responsible for the Iraq War and all other kinds of disasters. The claim is often made that Israel has corrupted Western officials, commanding them to carry out its dirty work.

Sound familiar? Yes, this has terrible echoes of the old racist idea that Jewish groups controlled Western politics and frequently propelled the world into chaos – an idea that was especially popular in the early to mid-20th-century Europe. Very often, anti-Israel protesters treat Israel not just as a nation at war – like Britain, America or France, which also frequently launch wars that kill huge numbers of civilians – but also as the warper of policy and morality in the West, as a source of poison in global affairs, as the architect of instability across the globe. Indeed, a few years ago a poll of Europeans found that a majority of them view Israel as “the biggest threat to world peace”. So Israel is undoubtedly singled out by Leftists and others, and even more significantly it is singled out in a way that the Jews used to be singled out – that is, as a sinister, self-serving corrupter of nations and causer of chaos.

Much of today’s anti-Israel protesting has a conspiracy-theory feel to it, with its talk about powerful lobby groups designing wars behind closed doors in order to isolate Israel’s enemies and boost Israel’s fortunes. And this is in keeping with Left-wing politics generally, today. The Left has increasingly embraced a conspiracy-theory view of the world. It is now very common to hear Leftists talk about the “cabals of neocons” who control world affairs, or the “cult of bankers” who wreak havoc on our economies, or the Murdoch Empire that “orchestrates public life from the shadows” (to quote Labour MP Tom Watson). All seriously analytical and nuanced readings of international trends and political dynamics have been elbowed aside by contemporary Leftists, who prefer instead to argue that dark, hidden, mysterious forces are ruining politics, plotting wars, and enriching themselves at the expense of the poor. And, as history shows us, there is a thin line between railing against wicked cabals and cults and wondering out loud whether the Jews are secretly running world affairs, or at least wielding a disproportionate influence.

Indeed, some of the most influential trends in Left-wing politics over the past five years – including the Occupy movement and the Wikileaks movement – were both given to conspiracy-theorising and both also had a bit of a problem with anti-Semitism. So Occupy was kickstarted by Adbusters, a magazine convinced that powerful corporations control the masses’ fickle minds. In 2004, Adbusters published a disgustingly anti-Semitic article titled “Why Won’t Anyone Say They Are Jewish?”, which listed the neocons in the Bush administration and put a black mark next to the names of those who are Jewish. Not surprisingly, Occupy itself, which was obsessed with the baleful influence of small cliques of bankers and other faceless, evil people, often crossed the line into anti-Semitism, as the Washington Post reported. And Wikileaks, too, which is also a borderline conspiracy-theory outfit, what with its obsession with the “conspiratorial interactions among the political elite”, has had issues with anti-Semitism: one of its key researchers, Israel Shamir, was exposed by the Guardian as being “notorious for [his] Holocaust denial and publishing a string of anti-Semitic articles”.

It is not an accident that the three key planks of the Left-wing outlook today – the anti-Israel anti-war sentiment, the shallow anti-capitalism of Occupy, and the worship of those who leak info from within the citadels of power – should all have had issues with anti-Semitism. It is because the left, feeling isolated from the public and bereft of any serious means for understanding modern political and economic affairs, has bought into a super-simplistic, black-and-white, borderline David Icke view of the world as a place overrun and ruled by cabals and cults and sinister lobby groups. And who has always, without fail, been the final cabal, the last cult, to find themselves shouldering the ultimate blame for the warped, hidden workings of politics, the economy and foreign turmoil? You got it – the Jews.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100281417/is-the-left-anti-semitic-sadly-it-is-heading-that-way/

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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:20 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:
As opposed to your view that seems to be absolve them of everything regardless , this shit happened 2000 years ago if it ever happened at all  GOD did not give Israel that land the allies did and ever since they have squeezed and sqeezed them in to an ever smaller area where the over the top retaliations kill more civilians thus freeing up more land in a few years
Its quite insidious really and its mostly demolished all ready, after all it`s really not a good idea to "Arthur dent" a missile
Bit by bit they are trying to exterminate the Palestinians, it`s like shooting fish in an ever smaller barrel

its hidious


ACTUALLY, KD ~ If you had ever read into and behind the Bible you would realise that the stories in the 'Old Testament' are set over a period of around 2,500 - 3,000 years leading up to the birth of Christ...

THE fables around Isaac and Ishmael and their "family" infighting that produced these eternal wars between the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews/Zionists  and the Palestinians (and most other Arabs these days), would be set closer to 4-5,000 years ago..

SUCH mythologies was one way for the squabbling religions of the day to explain to the illiterate masses why their fighting and fuding had to keep on keeping on.


Excellent post bee and hence why I have asked who is Israel.



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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:21 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:
As opposed to your view that seems to be absolve them of everything regardless , this shit happened 2000 years ago if it ever happened at all  GOD did not give Israel that land the allies did and ever since they have squeezed and sqeezed them in to an ever smaller area where the over the top retaliations kill more civilians thus freeing up more land in a few years
Its quite insidious really and its mostly demolished all ready, after all it`s really not a good idea to "Arthur dent" a missile
Bit by bit they are trying to exterminate the Palestinians, it`s like shooting fish in an ever smaller barrel

its hidious


ACTUALLY, KD ~ If you had ever read into and behind the Bible you would realise that the stories in the 'Old Testament' are set over a period of around 2,500 - 3,000 years leading up to the birth of Christ...

THE fables around Isaac and Ishmael and their "family" infighting that produced these eternal wars between the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews/Zionists  and the Palestinians (and most other Arabs these days), would be set closer to 4-5,000 years ago..

SUCH mythologies was one way for the squabbling religions of the day to explain to the illiterate masses why their fighting and fuding had to keep on keeping on.
Thanks and i have and suffer no illusions that's its all complete bullshit
The winners write the history there way
Looses write it, there`s most of it is rubbish

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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:21 pm

Korben_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:


Well I doubt a fictional time traveler is going to help you mate
nufortunatly its the only way in to your fantasy world .....hang on didge hang on your friends are on there way to save you .............. Sad Sad Sad Sad  never leave a man and all that


Epic fail

Who is Israel?

You claimed to know, so am interested

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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:25 pm

Didge wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:
nufortunatly its the only way in to your fantasy world .....hang on didge hang on your friends are on there way to save you .............. Sad Sad Sad Sad  never leave a man and all that


Epic fail

Who is Israel?

You claimed to know, so am interested
No your not your only interest is playing word games with me that it

to what end i dont know ?

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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:26 pm

Korben_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:


Epic fail

Who is Israel?

You claimed to know, so am interested
No your not your only interest is playing word games with me that it


That would be fun, but no that is no the case, I would just like an answer to my question.


Who is Israel?

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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:05 pm

Didge wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:
No your not your only interest is playing word games with me that it


That would be fun, but no that is no the case, I would just like an answer to my question.


Who is Israel?
Thats the thing didgy old bean ....i have at least four times and your only response was to ask the same question you nether expand or explain in what context you want me to answer


Perhaps is not the answer you wanted, but you haven`t even attempt to clear explain what kind of answer and in what context your "question" is framed
Israel the "country" is bombing Gaza,
Israel is a country how that confuses your tiny condescending brain is beyond my meager talents

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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:54 pm

who is "anywhere" ?

I mean...who is "britain"

one could ask the same about any nation, and the reality is that there is NOT a single defining answer

"Israel" could be "everyone who lives there and has Israeli nationality"

It Could also be everyone who is resident there and can vote

It could also be ONLY its executive (government) since THEY are the leadership

just as the board of directors of a company are effectively in law "the company" (for some purposes)


I think what didge is trying to do is seperate "the jew", who may NOT be resident, from the effective "image" of israel.

However as far as "the country of israel" is concerned making such distictions is profitless,  a majority support the actions of the zionist govt, and whilst the dissenters are there, and shouting "not in my name" it is clear that they are slowly being suppressed...

Now we know the r/w here support the zionist govt, wholeheartedly, and they hide there r/w tendencies behind the false assumption that the defining characteristic of the nazi was anti semitism

IT WASNT.......Yes the nazi hated the jew...but he also hated with equal fervour the Slav, the "black" and anyone he viewed as "non aryan" and tghus not part of the "master race"

THIS is the falsity of the argument....

nazizm is NOT about anti semitism, at all, Its about liebensraum, its about "superiority", its about, at the end of the day genocide to gain what you want.....Its the state of mind that takes ANY pretext, no matter how flimsy, and responding with the iron fist, above and beyond ANY "reasonable " response. Its about not caring about civilians.

And here we have another hidey hole the R/W on here like to live in....

Hamas undoubtedly "dont care about their civilians" either and so much is true...BUT the israelis have both the man power AND technology to avoid most of the horrendous  situations we have heard about. Are you really telling me it was either necessary OR appropriate to SHELL that hospital with fighters on the roof KNOWING there were civilian sick and wounded in it???  Rubbish....Are you telling me it was necessary OR appropriate to hit that UN school with missiles KNOWING there were civilians there, knowing it is ONE certain place civilians would be.....having BEEN PROVIDED with the co-ordinates by the UN....rubbish

this is an asymetrical war of destruction with one aim ...to destroy gaza, and remove its people...under the pretext of "security"

NO I do NOT agree with what Hamas has done/is doing. It is cowardly and counter productive, but israel is NOT innocent in all this either....israel has provoked, prodeded and stirred continuously over the years. and has regularly frustrated peace efforts with its intransigence, even assasinating one man who might have had a peace deal....

the R/W talk of hamas not wanting peace.....what is certain is that Israel does not.

So when the R/W complain about the nazi comments applying to israel (the body corporate of israel plc.) they are hiding behind a disingenious smokescreen

they are acting just like the nazis....only a bit more subtle...You would think that the holocaust would have left them a bit more sensitive wouldnt you......

their actions are indefensible, and it is telling the that the real "R/W" are showing their true colours here...applauding the decimation and economic destruction of a people on a poor excuse, and then bleating false and poor arguments in defense of such strategy.

Hypocrisy doesnt come into it either....

IF we took the same view here as a general theme....we would be jutifying the same response to our internal terrorist threat, and allowing the EDF and other such nutters free reign on the Muslims here....
after all...hamas fire rokets at israel....the terrorists here blow up buses and trains
hamas hide behind civilians...our terrorists hide within the peaceful Muslim communities...

so no real difference..IS THERE

and yet woe betide anyone who suggests blowing up a mosque in order to "get" the odd terrorist or two....
(and I'm NOT suggesting the above is a right thing to do either...quite the reverse...(for didges twisted benefit)

double standards abound.....


Last edited by victorisnotamused on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:00 pm

What is also certain id the "R/W" are applying another dodge, which is a much a lie as it is disingenious....one that has been used by the zionist tendency for years....

IF you criticise even the slightest thing about israel or israelis you are anti semitic...whahhhhhh...I'm a victim of bullying (which was true once....60 odd years ago) and now this bully says I cant piss on the street....... Rolling Eyes 

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Post by Guest on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:17 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:who is "anywhere" ?

I mean...who is "britain"

one could ask the same about any nation, and the reality is that there is NOT a single defining answer

"Israel" could be "everyone who lives there and has Israeli nationality"

It Could also be everyone who is resident there and can vote

It could also be ONLY its executive (government) since THEY are the leadership

just as the board of directors of a company are effectively in law "the company" (for some purposes)


I think what didge is trying to do is seperate "the jew", who may NOT be resident, from the effective "image" of israel.

However as far as "the country of israel" is concerned making such distictions is profitless,  a majority support the actions of the zionist govt, and whilst the dissenters are there, and shouting "not in my name" it is clear that they are slowly being suppressed...

Now we know the r/w here support the zionist govt, wholeheartedly, and they hide there r/w tendencies behind the false assumption that the defining characteristic of the nazi was anti semitism

IT WASNT.......Yes the nazi hated the jew...but he also hated with equal fervour the Slav, the "black" and anyone he viewed as "non aryan" and tghus not part of the "master race"

THIS is the falsity of the argument....

nazizm is NOT about anti semitism, at all, Its about liebensraum, its about "superiority", its about, at the end of the day genocide to gain what you want.....Its the state of mind that takes ANY pretext, no matter how flimsy, and responding with the iron fist, above and beyond ANY "reasonable " response. Its about not caring about civilians.

And here we have another hidey hole the R/W on here like to live in....

Hamas undoubtedly "dont care about their civilians" either and so much is true...BUT the israelis have both the man power AND technology to avoid most of the horrendous  situations we have heard about. Are you really telling me it was either necessary OR appropriate to SHELL that hospital with fighters on the roof KNOWING there were civilian sick and wounded in it???  Rubbish....Are you telling me it was necessary OR appropriate to hit that UN school with missiles KNOWING there were civilians there, knowing it is ONE certain place civilians would be.....having BEEN PROVIDED with the co-ordinates by the UN....rubbish

this is an asymetrical war of destruction with one aim ...to destroy gaza, and remove its people...under the pretext of "security"

NO I do NOT agree with what Hamas has done/is doing. It is cowardly and counter productive, but israel is NOT innocent in all this either....israel has provoked, prodeded and stirred continuously over the years. and has regularly frustrated peace efforts with its intransigence, even assasinating one man who might have had a peace deal....

the R/W talk of hamas not wanting peace.....what is certain is that Israel does not.

So when the R/W complain about the nazi comments applying to israel (the body corporate of israel plc.) they are hiding behind a disingenious smokescreen

they are acting just like the nazis....only a bit more subtle...You would think that the holocaust would have left them a bit more sensitive wouldnt you......

their actions are indefensible, and it is telling the that the real "R/W" are showing their true colours here...applauding the decimation and economic destruction of a people on a poor excuse, and then bleating false and poor arguments in defense of such strategy.

Hypocrisy doesnt come into it either....

IF we took the same view here as a general theme....we would be jutifying the same response to our internal terrorist threat, and allowing the EDF and other such nutters free reign on the Muslims here....
after all...hamas fire rokets at israel....the terrorists here blow up buses and trains
hamas hide behind civilians...our terrorists hide within the peaceful Muslim communities...

so no real difference..IS THERE

and yet woe betide anyone who suggests blowing up a mosque in order to "get" the odd terrorist or two....
(and I'm NOT suggesting the above is a right thing to do either...quite the reverse...(for didges twisted benefit)

double standards abound.....
Indeed and that's why i said "i don't like what Israel is doing" as it is surely Israel the country via its elected government that is doing that
If he wanted me to delineate that comment further perhaps a course could help him frame a question properly to that end

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Post by veya_victaous on Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:37 pm

Didge wrote:
Korben_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:


Again who is Israel?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel


sorry you will have to explain the rules of this stupid game your playing ?


Again I will ask, who is Israel?

Ok
the IDF
the military organisation committing war crimes

Sick of all the Zionist propagandists thinking the IDF can act like Nazi and get away with it using the same propaganda tactics as the Nazis. The People are not that stupid any more plus we have much better access to information
like the fact that we are up to like 1100 Palestinian deaths which even Israel says 3 quarters of which are civilians
compared to under 50 Israeli deaths with under 5 civilians.
Basic maths tells us that at least 75% of the people being killed by the IDF are innocent civilians
While only less than 10% of those killed by Hamas are innocent civilians.

Lets make it Really Simple ANY one killing 3 to 4 civilians for every enemy combatant is EVIL end of story there is nor excuse you can give to justify that.
AND 'warning' people you are going to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity on them does not in anyway lesson how terrible and despicable you are.


History will record this as the IDF trying to commit Genocide on Palestinians. a Modern Military can keep the civilian toll down but the IDF seems to be going out of its way to kill civilians or they are such are criminally irresponsible organisation then also need to be condemned.

Any one defending Genocide is a NO different than a Nazi Sympathiser, to Appease the IDF is no different than Appeasing the Nazis
GOOD MEN do not look at who is doing the Unspeakable they try and STOP whoever is committing the Crimes against humanity .

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Post by Eilzel on Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:07 am

Biblical all Jews are Israel, the people are the nation.

But in the context of today, for most people, we talk of Israel as the Middle-Eastern state of the same name.

Being viciously opposed to the actions of the Israeli government, or even the existence of the nation-state of Israel, does not itself make anyone anti-Semitic- it makes us opposed to excessive military brutality or opposed to a state 'created' in land where there was no such state previously (along with the mass immigration that came with it).

Some on the Left and Right will be anti-Semitic. But not most. And certainly no Telegraph blog can claim any sort of impartiality in trying to cast the Left this way.

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Post by The Puzzler on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:34 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10992886/Anti-Semitism-on-the-march-Europe-braces-for-violence.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2707322/Heads-sticks-Sick-ISIS-video-emerges-showing-50-beheaded-Syrian-soldiers-impaled-poles-held-aloft-Raqqa-city.html
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Post by The Puzzler on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:37 am

The left is very anti semitic, especially the UAF. And they have the fuckin nerve to call RW posters fascists and neo nazis. I suggest wolfboy et al take a look in the mirror.
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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:52 am

Interesting replies and most have not understood the article.


Even more so this reply from Victor which is more justification of antisemitism:


However as far as "the country of israel" is concerned making such distictions is profitless, a majority support the actions of the zionist govt, and whilst the dissenters are there, and shouting "not in my name" it is clear that they are slowly being suppressed...

Sorry Victor that is providing a reason to be antisemitic, even though your sentiments did not mean to.


Again to even equate this to the Nazi's is not only ridiculous but disgusting and clearly none here have any understanding of the Nazis themselves. To back this point one only has to look at say the Vietnam conflict, has anyone claimed the Americans were Nazi's with their bombing campaign there?
No, you see this is how people are so misguided on their beliefs that make up what thy think is a comparative to the Nazis, which there is absolutely none.

Sorry but where is the Israeli Einsatzgruppen following the ground force into Gaza? When did the Nazi's phone the civilians of any nation and warn them to leave? To make such poor associations to the Nazi's shows many here have not even studied the Nazi's let alone understand the evil of the Nazi's. What is happening here which is consistent with any conflict is sadly civilians have died as they have done in many, it is only today more a more people are having a conscience about this, but the claims to associate with the Nazis's is not only absurd but is in complete tune with what this article is about with people using such poor arguments to justify antisemitism.

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Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:01 am

Didge it is not anti-Semitism
IT is Anti NAZI like Genocide attempting War Crime Committing IDF

As much as the Propagandist are trying to make it out any one with a reasonable grasp of Mathematics can do the numbers from them selves and See reality
Not some bullshit Propaganda numbers REALITY.

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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:03 am

veya_victaous wrote:Didge it is not anti-Semitism
IT is Anti NAZI like Genocide attempting War Crime Committing IDF  

As much as the Propagandist are trying to make it out any one with a reasonable grasp of Mathematics can do the numbers from them selves and See reality
Not some bullshit Propaganda numbers REALITY.


Still acting childish, try again

It is very much antisemitism and providing reason to be antisemitic, which as seen by my points shows why it is.

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Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:20 am

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Didge it is not anti-Semitism
IT is Anti NAZI like Genocide attempting War Crime Committing IDF  

As much as the Propagandist are trying to make it out any one with a reasonable grasp of Mathematics can do the numbers from them selves and See reality
Not some bullshit Propaganda numbers REALITY.


Still acting childish, try again

Why has Hamas never built any bomb shelters? Again it is under Blocakde since 1993 before they existed...  Blockade has been increased since 2007 so they restrictions on Medical supplies and food....  You are Shitting me if you are going to suggest for a second they could bring in materials to make a bomb shelter

Why does Hamas continue to violate every ceasefire?
Why does Israel? and surely this gives Hamas far more credit than is deserves towards Organised centrally commanded organisation....  Pretty sure Hamas are only slightly better than 2 bit terrorists.... IDF are a proper Military


No didge Counting is not Childish, using mathematics is how pretty much all analytical studies that are worth anything are conducted. It is the Basis of ALL SCIENCE, it is the most impartial of the observable attributes mankind knows.

but that statement of yours about Numbers being Childish clears up how you can have such a ridiculous opinion? You deny the value/status of Mathematics in order to maintain your complete Fallacy of an opinion....

I don't need to argue with you any more because you have already Proven for EVERYONE that on this subject you will be as obtuse as someone like HF and literally Deny empirical evidence and just keep repeating the same words with out ever actually defending your Position with any facts of figures to support such claims.

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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:26 am

Utterly daft answers


So they can build tunnels to attack Israel but you excuse the blockade as the reasons to not build bomb shelters, is that your final answer or would you like to phone a friend? 


Second question nothing but a poor deflection to the question asked, so try again.


Again what you fail to understand is that there has been countless conflicts where civilians have died and where today more people have a conscience over this, but what you are failing to understand is the many points already raised where people as seen as you are doing now are in fact excusing the right to be antisemitic.
You whole arguments consists of being emotive, infantile accusations and claims onto me and not actually debating the points, yours poorly is based upon numbers, with again the very fact that which is a follow on point to my first questions.

How many civilians would be alive today if Hamas had built bomb shelters?

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Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:07 am

Didge wrote:Utterly daft answers


So they can build tunnels to attack Israel but you excuse the blockade as the reasons to not build bomb shelters, is that your final answer or would you like to phone a friend? 


Second question nothing but a poor deflection to the question asked, so try again.


Again what you fail to understand is that there has been countless conflicts where civilians have died and where today more people have a conscience over this, but what you are failing to understand is the many points already raised where people as seen as you are doing now are in fact excusing the right to be antisemitic.
You whole arguments consists of being emotive, infantile accusations and claims onto me and not actually debating the points, yours poorly is based upon numbers, with again the very fact that which is a follow on point to my first questions.

How many civilians would be alive today if Hamas had built bomb shelters?

You are an Idiot. Numbers make a poor argument  Suspect  Suspect  Suspect  Suspect  they are the Basis of ALL FACTS...
I cannot argue with someone that does not accept empirical evidence it is a bit hard as you Literally may as well be saying the bible said so as you Literally Provide No evidence to support any statement you make.

Tunnels to attack Israel that HAVE BEEN EPICALLY INEFFECTIVE  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing 
SO my Point stands


AND again you have not said
why you believe that is relevant anyway?

Tell Us didge how is that relevant?
is it like rape? where she wear sexy clothes doesn't build bomb shelters so she deserved it??
Reality Check.. the people that commit the CRIME are in the wrong not the person that wasn't prepared
The crimes are being committed against Palestinians civilians so why you think any statement about Hamas Justifies war crimes is beyond me...

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Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:10 am

I am being No more Anti-Semitic than Hating Nazi's is anti-German...  
I hate people committing WAR CRIMES and trying to Commit Genocide.

are you fine with it if they are Jewish??? I don't even see the point of your argument, expect to support a group committing of War crimes

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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:11 am

Again more deflections to the questions asked, I never made any point of the effectiveness on the tunnels against Israel, you see this is why your responses are infantile, my questions was why have they built them, which takes time and money and not built shelters for the civilians. It is not just the dome defense system that has saved lives in Israel but the fact they have built shelters to protect the people from attack, that shows Israel cares for its civilians, whether they be Jews or Arabs.


To now equate this to rapes, hows you are far removed from sanity.

Again how many people and lives could have been saved if Hamas had looked to protect its civilians by building bomb shelters.?

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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:50 pm

Didge wrote:Interesting replies and most have not understood the article.


Even more so this reply from Victor which is more justification of antisemitism:


However as far as "the country of israel" is concerned making such distictions is profitless,  a majority support the actions of the zionist govt, and whilst the dissenters are there, and shouting "not in my name" it is clear that they are slowly being suppressed...

Sorry Victor that is providing a reason to be antisemitic, even though your sentiments did not mean to.



Bull shit didge.....burning synagogues and shops, threatening jews in Europe for Israels actions is antisemitic....criticising israels thuggish behaviour is NOT.
I relise that the only way you can win this argument is to shut down all criticism of israel, and I know that your favourite method is the SIXHIRB method but it wont wash anymore , for two reasons....one , it is so outdated and no longer has any meaning, people dont give a toss about that kind of crap anymore...its been over used
and two its patently not the case....





Again to even equate this to the Nazi's is not only ridiculous but disgusting and clearly none here have any understanding of the Nazis themselves. To back this point one only has to look at say the Vietnam conflict, has anyone claimed the Americans were Nazi's with their bombing campaign there?
No, you see this is how people are so misguided on their beliefs that make up what thy think is a comparative to the Nazis, which there is absolutely none.

Sorry but where is the Israeli Einsatzgruppen following the ground force into Gaza? When did the Nazi's phone the civilians of any nation and warn them to leave? To make such poor associations to the Nazi's shows many here have not even studied the Nazi's let alone understand the evil of the Nazi's. What is happening here which is consistent with any conflict is sadly civilians have died as they have done in many, it is only today more a more people are having a conscience about this, but the claims to associate with the Nazis's is not only absurd but is in complete tune with what this article is about with people using such poor arguments to justify antisemitism.

more bull shit.....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it most likely IS a duck...even if its a different colour...
IN OTHER WORDS.....to have the characteristics of a regime doesnt require you to be an exact copy of said regime....

you are quick enough to use the nazi jibe against others....despite there being little (if any) resemblence to the ACTUAL nazis.

what warnings...oh yes...boom....there will be a bigger boom in 2 minuits....great, plenty of time then......

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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:05 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:

Bull shit didge.....burning synagogues and shops, threatening jews in Europe for Israels actions is antisemitic....criticising israels thuggish behaviour is NOT.
I relise that the only way you can win this argument is to shut down all criticism of israel, and I know that your favourite method is the SIXHIRB method but it wont wash anymore , for two reasons....one , it is so outdated and no longer has any meaning, people dont give a toss about that kind of crap anymore...its been over used
and two its patently not the case....
Poor deflection argument used to talk about me instead of the points in the debate, where none have been deflected at you, so stop with the pathetic excuses. The point I put forward from your own remarks, shows how people badly look at this conflict, you called the Government Zionist and the people as to backing them, is that being critical of Israel?
No, as you have just and accused Jews of all in the main being zionists and a poor claim to now those against being supressed



more bull shit.....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it most likely IS a duck...even if its a different colour...
IN OTHER WORDS.....to have the characteristics of a regime doesnt require  you to be an exact copy of said regime....
Gobbledygook, as seen you are making an utterly ridiculous claim, where your claim is stating now that every nation who has had civilians be killed in a conflict makes them Nazis, it is not only poor but shows how people are thinking and being antisemitic being emotionally charged against Israel, proving the articles point. Again the program by the Nazi's was the systematic extinction of many different peoples through starvation, executions etc, which the last I looked 20% of its population is Arab, which shows why such claims are nothing but utter bull and it shows how people and you yourself know very little about the Nazi's



you are quick enough to use the nazi jibe against others....despite there being little (if any) resemblence to the ACTUAL nazis.
Incorrect again, I have stated how people use the Nazis language on hate towards people
which is completely different and this was proven also, where arguments used on Jews have been similar today againsts Muslims

what warnings...oh yes...boom....there will be a bigger boom in 2 minuits....great, plenty of time then......

Yeah how much warnings do the Israeli's get Victor?
How many civilians would and could have been saved in Gaza with bomb shelters?
Why have no bomb shelters been built?

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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:22 pm

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

Bull shit didge.....burning synagogues and shops, threatening jews in Europe for Israels actions is antisemitic....criticising israels thuggish behaviour is NOT.
I relise that the only way you can win this argument is to shut down all criticism of israel, and I know that your favourite method is the SIXHIRB method but it wont wash anymore , for two reasons....one , it is so outdated and no longer has any meaning, people dont give a toss about that kind of crap anymore...its been over used
and two its patently not the case....
Poor deflection argument used to talk about me instead of the points in the debate, where none have been deflected at you, so stop with the pathetic excuses. The point I put forward from your own remarks, shows how people badly look at this conflict, you called the Government Zionist and the people as to backing them, is that being critical of Israel?
No, as you have just and accused Jews of all in the main being zionists and a poor claim to now those against being supressed



more bull shit.....if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it most likely IS a duck...even if its a different colour...
IN OTHER WORDS.....to have the characteristics of a regime doesnt require  you to be an exact copy of said regime....
Gobbledygook, as seen you are making an utterly ridiculous claim, where your claim is stating now that every nation who has had civilians be killed in a conflict makes them Nazis, it is not only poor but shows how people are thinking and being antisemitic being emotionally charged against Israel, proving the articles point. Again the program by the Nazi's was the systematic extinction of many different peoples through starvation, executions etc, which the last I looked 20% of its population is Arab, which shows why such claims are nothing but utter bull and it shows how people and you yourself know very little about the Nazi's



you are quick enough to use the nazi jibe against others....despite there being little (if any) resemblence to the ACTUAL nazis.
Incorrect again, I have stated how people use the Nazis language on hate towards people
which is completely different and this was proven also, where arguments used on Jews have been similar today againsts Muslims

what warnings...oh yes...boom....there will be a bigger boom in 2 minuits....great, plenty of time then......

Yeah how much warnings do the Israeli's get Victor?
How many civilians would and could have been saved in Gaza with bomb shelters?
Why have no bomb shelters been built?

irrelevant didge...

the israelis are using battlefield weapons in civilian areas, KNOWING the above to be the case, when there is NO need to do so...case in point...flechette shells...NO valid reason to use in civilian areas AT ALL....
Targeting a UN school, having been given the coordinates BY THE UN....KNOWING civilians where sheltering there....

You would justify any amount of the most unimaginable suffering...just to be "right"

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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:49 pm

Hamas places it weapons within civilian areas, thus creating the situation for there to be civilian deaths, this of course eludes you it seem or the fact they provide no bomb shelters.
From what I understand also Israel has not targeted certain areas also and that these attacks could be by Hamas themselves with misfiring rockets, which is being stated today.
The fact is the setting have been set by Hamas because they want to use the deaths of civilians and this fact escapes you.

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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:02 pm

the israelis are using battlefield weapons in civilian areas, KNOWING the above to be the case, when there is NO need to do so...case in point...flechette shells...NO valid reason to use in civilian areas AT ALL....
Targeting a UN school, having been given the coordinates BY THE UN....KNOWING civilians where sheltering there....

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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:07 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:the israelis are using battlefield weapons in civilian areas, KNOWING the above to be the case, when there is NO need to do so...case in point...flechette shells...NO valid reason to use in civilian areas AT ALL....
Targeting a UN school, having been given the coordinates BY THE UN....KNOWING civilians where sheltering there....



So basically you are excusing Hamas knowingly placing weapons within civilian areas with deliberately providing no means of bomb shelters for civilians, creating the setting for civilians to die, which is their aim, so they can gain sympathy.
Basically you want Israel to just turn the other cheek, no nation would do this and as seen when America was hit by 9/11 two nations were conquered and destroyed, let alone drone attacks being used illegally in nations like Pakistan

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Post by scrat on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:07 pm

Didge wrote:
scrat wrote:
1218 "Jews acquired a reputation as extortionate moneylenders which made them extremely unpopular with both the church and the general public. While an anti-Jewish attitude was widespread in Europe, medieval England was particularly anti-Jewish."

Money!


Fuck me, HItler eat your heat out, that is a fallacy association Scrat, where now you are blaming Jews for capitalism, when before they were blamed for Communism, they really cannot seem to catch a break
Hitler was a megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur, that so many dominoes fell for him to achieve this is truly a remarkable feat, utterly amazing and could even be described as warranting a connection to Devine intervention for those that believe in such things.

Hitler was many things, being a nazi was just one of them, and he certainly hated the Jew, however in the words of Ripley "You do not see them fucking each other over for a god damn percentage"

The Jew must come to terms with the reality, and sue for peace,,,now, because they're bringing death and destruction to all of us.
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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:11 pm

scrat wrote:
Didge wrote:


Fuck me, HItler eat your heat out, that is a fallacy association Scrat, where now you are blaming Jews for capitalism, when before they were blamed for Communism, they really cannot seem to catch a break
Hitler was a megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur, that so many dominoes fell for him to achieve this is truly a remarkable feat, utterly amazing and could even be described as warranting a connection to Devine intervention for those that believe in such things.

Hitler was many things, being a nazi was just one of them, and he certainly hated the Jew, however in the words of Ripley "You do not see them fucking each other over for a god damn percentage"

The Jew must come to terms with the reality, and sue for peace,,,now, because they're bringing death and destruction to all of us.


No both sides must sue for peace, that is evident and I do not look towards one, where one side is excused from also acting.
I suppose you still think its acceptable to hate Jews as you claimed across the water based on a fallacy association on wealth, where envy and jealousy to you is an acceptable means to hate Jews:



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Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:14 pm

This should be posted here also:




It has been said that the history of almost all of the Jewish holidays can be summed up succinctly: "They wanted to kill us; we won. Let's eat." Why has anti-Semitism been so pervasive in so many countries, in so many time periods and for so many reasons? (One begins to wonder. Perhaps there is something wrong with the Jews and Judaism? After all, there is an old Yiddish saying -- "If one person calls you a donkey, ignore him; if two people call you a donkey, buy a saddle.")

Between the years 250 CE and 1948 CE - a period of 1,700 years - Jews have experienced more than eighty expulsions from various countries in Europe - an average of nearly one expulsion every twenty-one years. Jews were expelled from England, France, Austria, Germany, Lithuania, Spain, Portugal, Bohemia, Moravia and seventy-one other countries.

Historians have classified six explanations as to why people hate the Jews:

Economic -- "We hate Jews because they possess too much wealth and power."
Chosen People -- "We hate Jews because they arrogantly claim that they are the chosen people."
Scapegoat -- "Jews are a convenient group to single out and blame for our troubles."
Deicide -- "We hate Jews because they killed Jesus."
Outsiders, -- "We hate Jews because they are different than us." (The dislike of the unlike.)
Racial Theory -- "We hate Jews because they are an inferior race."

As we examine the explanations, we must ask -- Are they the causes for anti-Semitism or excuses for Anti-Semitism? The difference? If one takes away the cause, then anti-Semitism should no longer exist. If one can show a contradiction to the explanation, it demonstrates that the "cause" is not a reason, it is just an excuse. Let's look at some contradictions:

Economic -- The Jews of 17th- 20th century Poland and Russia were dirt poor, had no influence and yet they were hated.

Chosen People -- a) In the late 19th century, the Jews of Germany denied "Choseness." And then they worked on assimilation. Yet, the holocaust started there. b) Christians and Moslems profess to being the "Chosen people," yet, the world and the anti-Semites tolerate them.

Scapegoat -- Any group must already be hated to be an effective scapegoat. The Scapegoat Theory does not then cause anti-Semitism. Rather, anti-Semitism is what makes the Jews a convenient scapegoat target. Hitler's ranting and ravings would not be taken seriously if he said, "It's the bicycle riders and the midgets who are destroying our society."

Deicide -- a) the Christian Bible says the Romans killed Jesus, though Jews are mentioned as accomplices (claims that Jews killed Jesus came several hundred years later). How come the accomplices are persecuted and there isn't an anti-Roman movement through history? b) Jesus himself said, "Forgive them [i.e., the Jews], for they know not what they do." The Second Vatican Council in 1963 officially exonerated the Jews as the killers of Jesus. Neither statement of Christian belief lessened anti-Semitism.

Outsiders -- With the Enlightenment in the late 18th century, many Jews rushed to assimilate. Anti-Semitism should have stopped. Instead, for example, with the Nazis came the cry, in essence: "We hate you, not because you're different, but because you're trying to become like us! We cannot allow you to infect the Aryan race with your inferior genes."

Racial Theory -- The overriding problem with this theory is that it is self-contradictory: Jews are not a race. Anyone can become a Jew - and members of every race, creed and color in the world have done so at one time or another.

Every other hated group is hated for a relatively defined reason. We Jews, however, are hated in paradoxes: Jews are hated for being a lazy and inferior race - but also for dominating the economy and taking over the world. We are hated for stubbornly maintaining our separateness - and, when we do assimilate - for posing a threat to racial purity through intermarriages. We are seen as pacifists and as warmongers; as capitalist exploiters and as revolutionary communists; possessed of a Chosen-People mentality, as well as of an inferiority complex. It seems that we just can't win.

Now we know what are NOT the reasons for anti-Semitism.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Why_Do_People_Hate_The_Jews.htm

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Post by scrat on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:31 pm

Didge wrote:
scrat wrote:
Hitler was a megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur, that so many dominoes fell for him to achieve this is truly a remarkable feat, utterly amazing and could even be described as warranting a connection to Devine intervention for those that believe in such things.

Hitler was many things, being a nazi was just one of them, and he certainly hated the Jew, however in the words of Ripley "You do not see them fucking each other over for a god damn percentage"

The Jew must come to terms with the reality, and sue for peace,,,now, because they're bringing death and destruction to all of us.


No both sides must sue for peace, that is evident and I do not look towards one, where one side is excused from also acting.
I suppose you still think its acceptable to hate Jews as you claimed across the water based on a fallacy association on wealth, where envy and jealousy to you is an acceptable means to hate Jews:


Didglet chap, I'm English, which means I've already won first prize in the lottery of life.

It is perfectly acceptable for an Englishman to believe in a world at peace, envy and jealousy for wealth have no meaning without stability, indeed without democracy we would all be fucked and life would be suited simply to the survival of the fittest.

It is also of some strange irony that the holy land is still the hub of anxiety, even to this day.

The Muslims have their faith, Christians have the power, but the Jews have the money.

Jews must end the land grab now, remove the settlements, sue for peace and help build a Palestine fit for humans.
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Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:58 pm

scrat wrote:
Didge wrote:
scrat wrote:
Hitler was a megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur, that so many dominoes fell for him to achieve this is truly a remarkable feat, utterly amazing and could even be described as warranting a connection to Devine intervention for those that believe in such things.

Hitler was many things, being a nazi was just one of them, and he certainly hated the Jew, however in the words of Ripley "You do not see them fucking each other over for a god damn percentage"

The Jew must come to terms with the reality, and sue for peace,,,now, because they're bringing death and destruction to all of us.


No both sides must sue for peace, that is evident and I do not look towards one, where one side is excused from also acting.
I suppose you still think its acceptable to hate Jews as you claimed across the water based on a fallacy association on wealth, where envy and jealousy to you is an acceptable means to hate Jews:


Didglet chap, I'm English, which means I've already won first prize in the lottery of life.

It is perfectly acceptable for an Englishman to believe in a world at peace, envy and jealousy for wealth have no meaning without stability, indeed without democracy we would all be fucked and life would be suited simply to the survival of the fittest.

It is also of some strange irony that the holy land is still the hub of anxiety, even to this day.

The Muslims have their faith, Christians have the power, but the Jews have the money.

Jews must end the land grab now, remove the settlements, sue for peace and help build a Palestine fit for humans.

:-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: 
 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

But on a serious note
Firstly I think it is wrong to say Jews as this is really the IDF and nation state of Israel, the Jewish communities elsewhere have no responsibility for these actions.
Secondly I don't think that will happen although I do agree with the general gist of what you are saying.

I think IDF needs to Stop, continue defending only, so no bombing stuff, the UN needs organise extraction and refugee status for those that wish to escape... If I was PM of Australia I would try and negotiate with Iran, Jordan and other stable Islamic nations to offer the refuges a choice between resettlement in either an Islamic or secular nation.

Once those civilians that want it have been extracted and those that are left understand that Israel is going to be take over the region, Israel should be allowed to use force to subdue the area. but Pressure should remain on Israel to be as Humane as possible in that action.

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Post by scrat on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:08 am

veya_victaous wrote:
scrat wrote:
Didglet chap, I'm English, which means I've already won first prize in the lottery of life.

It is perfectly acceptable for an Englishman to believe in a world at peace, envy and jealousy for wealth have no meaning without stability, indeed without democracy we would all be fucked and life would be suited simply to the survival of the fittest.

It is also of some strange irony that the holy land is still the hub of anxiety, even to this day.

The Muslims have their faith, Christians have the power, but the Jews have the money.

Jews must end the land grab now, remove the settlements, sue for peace and help build a Palestine fit for humans.

:-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: 
 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

But on a serious note
Firstly I think it is wrong to say Jews as this is really the IDF and nation state of Israel, the Jewish communities elsewhere have no responsibility for these actions.
Secondly I don't think that will happen although I do agree with the general gist of what you are saying.

I think IDF needs to Stop, continue defending only, so no bombing stuff, the UN needs organise extraction and refugee status for those that wish to escape...  If I was PM of Australia I would try and negotiate with Iran, Jordan and other stable Islamic nations to offer the refuges a choice between resettlement in either an Islamic or secular nation.

Once those civilians that want it have been extracted and those that are left understand that Israel is going to be take over the region, Israel should be allowed to use force to subdue the area. but Pressure should remain on Israel to be as Humane as possible in that action.
Hi Veya, Here in Blighty the right whinge are always baaying for Muslims to condemn the activities of Muslim terrorists, if as you say not all Jews are guilty of these atrocities then hopefully they will come out and condemn the Zionist state for it's massacre of Palestinians.

Slowly but surely, the fact that 1.5 million Palestinians live within 150 square miles will take to the surface and the world will want to do something to correct the situation.

The Jew must learn to live within its borders, perhaps they should be forced to come to terms with that.
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Post by Guest on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:19 am

scrat wrote:
Didge wrote:


No both sides must sue for peace, that is evident and I do not look towards one, where one side is excused from also acting.
I suppose you still think its acceptable to hate Jews as you claimed across the water based on a fallacy association on wealth, where envy and jealousy to you is an acceptable means to hate Jews:


Didglet chap, I'm English, which means I've already won first prize in the lottery of life.

It is perfectly acceptable for an Englishman to believe in a world at peace, envy and jealousy for wealth have no meaning without stability, indeed without democracy we would all be fucked and life would be suited simply to the survival of the fittest.

It is also of some strange irony that the holy land is still the hub of anxiety, even to this day.

The Muslims have their faith, Christians have the power, but the Jews have the money.

Jews must end the land grab now, remove the settlements, sue for peace and help build a Palestine fit for humans.


No you are just a human, biologically humans are all one race and to equate as has been used before to target Jews because of wealth is not only a fallacy association but also very antisemitic and as poor as stereotypes used against Muslims.
Israel should stop settlements, but also Gaza needs to be rid of Hams, who are hell bent on the destruction o f Israel. There is no point having peace if within each side there is still hate and it is perceptions that need changing, which people seem to overlook at every turn

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Post by scrat on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:29 am

Didge wrote:
scrat wrote:
Didglet chap, I'm English, which means I've already won first prize in the lottery of life.

It is perfectly acceptable for an Englishman to believe in a world at peace, envy and jealousy for wealth have no meaning without stability, indeed without democracy we would all be fucked and life would be suited simply to the survival of the fittest.

It is also of some strange irony that the holy land is still the hub of anxiety, even to this day.

The Muslims have their faith, Christians have the power, but the Jews have the money.

Jews must end the land grab now, remove the settlements, sue for peace and help build a Palestine fit for humans.


No you are just a human, biologically humans are all one race and to equate as has been used before to target Jews because of wealth is not only a fallacy association but also very antisemitic and as poor as stereotypes used against Muslims.
Israel should stop settlements, but also Gaza needs to be rid of Hams, who are hell bent on the destruction o f Israel. There is no point having peace if within each side there is still hate and it is perceptions that need changing, which people seem to overlook at every turn
Thankfully being English means one is more human than any other human, it's what we English do, please do not be under the misapprehension that an Englishman should not be proud of being English.

Obama is sick and fucking tired of the nazi Netanyahu playing the "victim" card, the strain these Jews are putting on America is starting to gain a negative response.

This cannot continue without further conflict.
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Post by Guest on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:33 am

scrat wrote:
Didge wrote:


No you are just a human, biologically humans are all one race and to equate as has been used before to target Jews because of wealth is not only a fallacy association but also very antisemitic and as poor as stereotypes used against Muslims.
Israel should stop settlements, but also Gaza needs to be rid of Hams, who are hell bent on the destruction o f Israel. There is no point having peace if within each side there is still hate and it is perceptions that need changing, which people seem to overlook at every turn
Thankfully being English means one is more human than any other human, it's what we English do, please do not be under the misapprehension the an Englishman should not be proud of being English.
Racism at its best, you are now claiming superiority, based on nothing scientific. There is nothing wrong with being proud, what is wrong is to equate as you are doing now something unscientific, when within all societies there is good and bad people

Obama is sick and fucking tired of the nazi Netanyahu playing the "victim" card, the strain these Jews are putting on America is starting to gain a negative response.

This cannot continue without further conflict.

Again you look at a conflict in black and white and not as a whole collective problem, where Israel has been fighting for its existence since the creation of Israel. This means that both sides have to accept the other having a right to exist and given the chance and capabilities Hamas would have no hesitation in wiping out Israel

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Post by scrat on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:42 am

Didge wrote:
scrat wrote:
Thankfully being English means one is more human than any other human, it's what we English do, please do not be under the misapprehension the an Englishman should not be proud of being English.
Racism at its best, you are now claiming superiority, based on nothing scientific. There is nothing wrong with being proud, what is wrong is to equate as you are doing now something unscientific, when within all societies there is good and bad people

Obama is sick and fucking tired of the nazi Netanyahu playing the "victim" card, the strain these Jews are putting on America is starting to gain a negative response.

This cannot continue without further conflict.

Again you look at a conflict in black and white and not as a whole collective problem, where Israel has been fighting for its existence since the creation of Israel. This means that both sides have to accept the other having a right to exist and given the chance and capabilities Hamas would have no hesitation in wiping out Israel
The Jews need to stop building their homes in Palestine.

Your struggle with your own identity is of no concern to me.
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Post by Guest on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:45 am

scrat wrote:
Didge wrote:

Again you look at a conflict in black and white and not as a whole collective problem, where Israel has been fighting for its existence since the creation of Israel. This means that both sides have to accept the other having a right to exist and given the chance and capabilities Hamas would have no hesitation in wiping out Israel
The Jews need to stop building their homes in Palestine.

Your struggle with your own identity is of no concern to me.

I am human just like you, what you equate to which you are ignoring is not real scientifically and there is something fundamentally wrong if you equate one set of humans superior to others.


Night

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Post by scrat on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:48 am

Didge wrote:
scrat wrote:
The Jews need to stop building their homes in Palestine.

Your struggle with your own identity is of no concern to me.

I am human just like you, what you equate to which you are ignoring is not real scientifically and there is something fundamentally wrong if you equate one set of humans superior to others.


Night

Ciao for now!

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Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:50 am

scrat wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
scrat wrote:
Didglet chap, I'm English, which means I've already won first prize in the lottery of life.

It is perfectly acceptable for an Englishman to believe in a world at peace, envy and jealousy for wealth have no meaning without stability, indeed without democracy we would all be fucked and life would be suited simply to the survival of the fittest.

It is also of some strange irony that the holy land is still the hub of anxiety, even to this day.

The Muslims have their faith, Christians have the power, but the Jews have the money.

Jews must end the land grab now, remove the settlements, sue for peace and help build a Palestine fit for humans.

:-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: :-:cawg:-: 
 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

But on a serious note
Firstly I think it is wrong to say Jews as this is really the IDF and nation state of Israel, the Jewish communities elsewhere have no responsibility for these actions.
Secondly I don't think that will happen although I do agree with the general gist of what you are saying.

I think IDF needs to Stop, continue defending only, so no bombing stuff, the UN needs organise extraction and refugee status for those that wish to escape...  If I was PM of Australia I would try and negotiate with Iran, Jordan and other stable Islamic nations to offer the refuges a choice between resettlement in either an Islamic or secular nation.

Once those civilians that want it have been extracted and those that are left understand that Israel is going to be take over the region, Israel should be allowed to use force to subdue the area. but Pressure should remain on Israel to be as Humane as possible in that action.
Hi Veya, Here in Blighty the right whinge are always baaying for Muslims to condemn the activities of Muslim terrorists, if as you say not all Jews are guilty of these atrocities then hopefully they will come out and condemn the Zionist state for it's massacre of Palestinians.
the Jewish Community here have been quite vocal in there condemnation of the IDF, one was on TV highlighting the actual numbers and the level of the atrocities saying how much worse the IDF is than Hamas at this point in time. there was an Israeli Media person as well (one of those panel interviews) and the Aussie Jew was the most Brutal in their dissection of the Israeli representatives statements.. probably because he had nothing to fear in the anti-Semitic claim

Slowly but surely, the fact that 1.5 million Palestinians live within 150 square miles will take to the surface and the world will want to do something to correct the situation.

The Jew must learn to live within its borders, perhaps they should be forced to come to terms with that.

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Post by scrat on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:53 am

veya_victaous wrote:
scrat wrote:
Hi Veya, Here in Blighty the right whinge are always baaying for Muslims to condemn the activities of Muslim terrorists, if as you say not all Jews are guilty of these atrocities then hopefully they will come out and condemn the Zionist state for it's massacre of Palestinians.
the Jewish Community here have been quite vocal in there condemnation of the IDF, one was on TV highlighting the actual numbers and the level of the atrocities saying how much worse the IDF is than Hamas at this point in time. there was an Israeli Media person as well (one of those panel interviews) and the Aussie Jew was the most Brutal in their dissection of the Israeli representatives statements.. probably because he had nothing to fear in the anti-Semitic claim

Slowly but surely, the fact that 1.5 million Palestinians live within 150 square miles will take to the surface and the world will want to do something to correct the situation.

The Jew must learn to live within its borders, perhaps they should be forced to come to terms with that.
Thats because Australians are decent people, that understand the reality of this brave new world more than most.
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Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:23 am

scrat wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
scrat wrote:
Hi Veya, Here in Blighty the right whinge are always baaying for Muslims to condemn the activities of Muslim terrorists, if as you say not all Jews are guilty of these atrocities then hopefully they will come out and condemn the Zionist state for it's massacre of Palestinians.
the Jewish Community here have been quite vocal in there condemnation of the IDF, one was on TV highlighting the actual numbers and the level of the atrocities saying how much worse the IDF is than Hamas at this point in time. there was an Israeli Media person as well (one of those panel interviews) and the Aussie Jew was the most Brutal in their dissection of the Israeli representatives statements.. probably because he had nothing to fear in the anti-Semitic claim

Slowly but surely, the fact that 1.5 million Palestinians live within 150 square miles will take to the surface and the world will want to do something to correct the situation.

The Jew must learn to live within its borders, perhaps they should be forced to come to terms with that.
Thats because Australians are decent people, that understand the reality of this brave new world more than most.

Plus regardless of what nation we were from we are all better for being Aussies too  pirat pirat pirat pirat tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue   lol! 

I believe you made your Englishman statement if greater Levity than Didge took it.... nothing wrong with patriotism as long as it has the right levels of levity associated with it.  ::%:: ::%:: ::%:: ::%:: 

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Post by gerber on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:51 am

scrat wrote:
Didge wrote:

Again you look at a conflict in black and white and not as a whole collective problem, where Israel has been fighting for its existence since the creation of Israel. This means that both sides have to accept the other having a right to exist and given the chance and capabilities Hamas would have no hesitation in wiping out Israel
The Jews need to stop building their homes in Palestine.

Your struggle with your own identity is of no concern to me.


Good morning Handsome

Bang on.................

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Post by scrat on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:32 am

gerber wrote:
scrat wrote:
The Jews need to stop building their homes in Palestine.

Your struggle with your own identity is of no concern to me.


Good morning Handsome

Bang on.................
Good morning Gorgeous, it's a beautiful day, again!

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Post by scrat on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:38 am

veya_victaous wrote:
scrat wrote:
Thats because Australians are decent people, that understand the reality of this brave new world more than most.

Plus regardless of what nation we were from we are all better for being Aussies too  pirat pirat pirat pirat tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue   lol! 

I believe you made your Englishman statement if greater Levity than Didge took it....  nothing wrong with patriotism as long as it has the right levels of levity associated with it.  ::%:: ::%:: ::%:: ::%:: 
Which is why we're better for being British, the Didglet has always been antiEnglish, and much sport can be had from him in this respect.

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Post by gerber on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:46 am

scrat wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Plus regardless of what nation we were from we are all better for being Aussies too  pirat pirat pirat pirat tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue   lol! 

I believe you made your Englishman statement if greater Levity than Didge took it....  nothing wrong with patriotism as long as it has the right levels of levity associated with it.  ::%:: ::%:: ::%:: ::%:: 
Which is why we're better for being British, the Didglet has always been antiEnglish, and much sport can be had from him in this respect.

much sport indeed.  someone may even get a gold medal

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