A view from Africa

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A view from Africa

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:55 am

THE death toll in the Israeli offensive on Gaza, that enters its 14th day today, shot to over 425 with more than 87 people killed yesterday alone in the televised bombardment. Over 3000 people were reported injured since the beginning of the offensive. The number of fatalities and the injured was expected to significantly increase once all the dead and injured are taken out of Shuja’iya, Gaza’s eastern suburb, where some serious shelling occurred on Saturday night.
According to Al Jazeera TV, which quoted various UN agencies, over 70 percent of the people killed during the two-week offensive are civilians.

On the Israeli side seven people have died, five military men and two civilians who fell victim to the rocket attacks and mortar fire.
Israel launched the operation dubbed “Operation Protective Edge” on July 8 ostensibly targeting the Hamas movement, which controls the region, and its allied groups of Palestinian rebels.

Ten days later, the Israeli army switched to a ground offensive that increased casualties.
Palestinian militants are accused of launching more than 100 rockets daily at the largest cities of the south and centre of Israel. About five million people out of total population of eight million live in the zone of attacks.

The barbaric offensive on mostly unarmed men, women and children in Gaza received the tacit approval of US president Barack Obama who appeared on CNN yesterday defending Israel’s actions saying no nation should tolerate an attack on its soil.

Israeli Premier Benjamin Netanyahu also appeared on CNN thanking the US for its support effectively confirming widely held sentiments that Israel would not be bloodletting if it did not have the support of the US that effectively stymies all action at the United Nations.

‘’I appreciate the support we have received from president Obama on our right to self-defence, ‘’ Netanyahu told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer last night.
Israel is the largest recipient of US military assistance and last year alone, Washington sent some US$3.1billion in military aid to Tel Aviv, supplemented by allocations for collaborative military research and joint training exercises.

The actions of Israel, which was established in 1948 the year apartheid was adopted by the racist National Party in South Africa, have been rapped as the worst attack on a people since the formal end of apartheid South Africa in 1994.

Ironically the assault on Gaza has not been condemned as much as the downing of a Malaysian airlines plane, MH17, that had 295 people on board with western media trying to build a case against Russia for reportedly supplying Ukrainian separatists with weapons, surprisingly the US that openly assists Israel with billions in military aid every year has not been similarly rapped by the same media organisations.

The world is still baffled at why the Western countries are putting pressure on the United Nations Security Council to hold an emergency meeting on the Ukraine crisis this Friday following the shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines jet which killed 298 people, while giving a blind eye to the crisis in Gaza.

http://www.herald.co.zw/israel-kills-over-400-in-gaza-attacks/


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Re: A view from Africa

Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:05 am

It was a mistake for Hamas/Gaza to start that war.

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:11 am

TO be fair Palestine was fucked when the West decided to GIVE the Palestinians land to Israel..

They didn't start it ... the west did.... what did we think woudl happen when we gave away someone else's home?

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:14 am

veya_victaous wrote:TO be fair Palestine was fucked when the West decided to GIVE the Palestinians land to Israel..

They didn't start it ... the west did.... what did we think woudl happen when we gave away someone else's home?

I still maintain that it was the fairest way to divide Canaan. I mean, the west could have gone anyway, and any one would be contested. There is no right or wrong to the question.

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:25 am

umm 1945 it was all theirs
what right did we have to give it away?


http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/balfour_declaration_of_1917.htm

The Balfour Declaration led the Jewish community in Britain and America into believing that Great Britain would support the creation of a Jewish state in the Middle East.

The UK Literally Took it off people living their and tried to give it away.
Even though they had made a deal with the people living here that they would keep it if they help over throw the Turks

To the Arab population who lived there, it was their homeland and had been promised to them by the Allies for help in defeating the Turks by the McMahon Agreement - though the British claimed the agreement gave no such promise.

Britain stole what limited sovereignty it had to the land and used it to make a deal twice.


The primary cause of trouble was the increased influx of Jews who had emigrated to Palestine. The number of Jews in the region had doubled in ten years
Seems they failed to assimilate... we all know what the RW crew thinks about those that don't assimilate  Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by veya_victaous on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:28 am

the ONLY fair solution is to give the Palestinians England to make up for it.. the English gave Palestine to the Jews so it is fair and just. that their country get given away to the people who's country they gave away.  Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool 

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:49 am

veya_victaous wrote:the ONLY fair solution is to give the Palestinians England to make up for it.. the English gave Palestine to the Jews so it is fair and just. that their country get given away to the people who's country they gave away.  Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool 

Veya,that is actually a good idea.But unfortunately for us,the UK is full of them already.

Now from I understand,you are fully in favour of mass immigration,so maybe they can all go to your Nirvana.......What do you reckon?.......A good idea?

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:50 pm

I like it.  But giving over England would be an insult to the Palestinians.  The farm lands have been played out.  The industrial infrastructure is old and decrepit.  The trains squeak and the roads travel backwards.

It would cost a fortune to tidy it up the place and make it ready for new tenants.  Perhaps if you threw in France, and a well stocked wine cellar.

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by eddie on Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:17 pm

A view from Africa eh? This is a picture I found under Ben’s mattress. It was well sticky.




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Re: A view from Africa

Post by *THE Ben Reilly* on Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:18 pm

Is she wearing a bracelet made of candy?

Regardless, that is SEXEH.

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:37 am

Guest wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:the ONLY fair solution is to give the Palestinians England to make up for it.. the English gave Palestine to the Jews so it is fair and just. that their country get given away to the people who's country they gave away.  Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool 

Veya,that is actually a good idea.But unfortunately for us,the UK is full of them already.

Now from I understand,you are fully in favour of mass immigration,so maybe they can all go to your Nirvana.......What do you reckon?.......A good idea?

Idea

One of the alternative sites considered for a Jewish homeland during the 1920s and '30s was down here in Oz -- including one area over in the Kimberleys region in Western Australia...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley_Plan

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plans-for-a-jewish-homeland-in-tasmania/2674616

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_a_Jewish_state

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by Didge on Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:10 pm

I love how on in the case for the time of a displaced people the Jews, is that for consideration to set up a Jewish state elsewhere.

Clearly the view was backing the right of a displaced people the Jews to have self determination and a state of their own

The views to Palestinian land, is of course a blatnat lie. Of course people owned land privately as individuals, as they already do in any state in the world. Of which Jews and Arabs did within the British Mandate. This then does not mean the land is collectivelly Palestinians. Arabs only came to own land, through centuries of Colonization through conquest and the powers that be giving out land they conquered. As is well know the Arabs conquered and Arabinized the entire Middle East and North Africa. Displacing a multitude of ethnic people, who are still displaced peoples today. Which includes well known groups like the Assyrians, Kurds, Yazidi's etc. None of which have a state of their own or self determination, even though there is over 20 Arab independent states.

I mean when the Mandate was created nobody objected to the fact 78% of this was made into the later state of Jordan. To then be ruled by a minority Arab family, called the Hashemite, that come from Saudi Arabia. This shows that time again there is an inconsistency in where and how people object to and one group having a state of their own. In again in their historical homeland that saw the genesis of the Jewish people.

The reality is this. No Palestinians would be refugees or Jews then refugees ethnically cleansed from countless Arab states and North Africa. Nor would thousands have died in countless wars and terrorism started continually by the Arabs. If the Arabs have of accepted a two state solution to live side by side in both 1937 and 1947. They chose violence and hate instead, which has continued unabated to this very day.

Peace would come tomorrow, when the Palestinin Arabs stop hating the Jews and would rather live side by side in peace.

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:06 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Guest wrote:

Veya,that is actually a good idea.But unfortunately for us,the UK is full of them already.

Now from I understand,you are fully in favour of mass immigration,so maybe they can all go to your Nirvana.......What do you reckon?.......A good idea?

Idea

One of the alternative sites considered for a Jewish homeland during the 1920s and '30s was down here in Oz --  including one area over in the Kimberleys region in Western Australia...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley_Plan

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plans-for-a-jewish-homeland-in-tasmania/2674616

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_a_Jewish_state

Um...Alice Springs or a resort on the Mediterranean Coast? Tough choice. Although I do love Sydney, Melbourne and your lake, wolf.

But, frankly, it's easier to steal land from people of color.

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by Didge on Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Idea

One of the alternative sites considered for a Jewish homeland during the 1920s and '30s was down here in Oz --  including one area over in the Kimberleys region in Western Australia...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley_Plan

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/how-the-kimberley-almost-became-australias-israel/9566214

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plans-for-a-jewish-homeland-in-tasmania/2674616

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_a_Jewish_state

Um...Alice Springs or a resort on the Mediterranean Coast?  Tough choice.  Although I do love Sydney, Melbourne and your lake, wolf.

But, frankly, it's easier to steal land from people of color.


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Re: A view from Africa

Post by Didge on Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:31 pm

Arabization or Arabisation (Arabic: تعريب‎ taʻrīb) is either the conquest and/or colonization of a non-Arab area and growing Arab influence on non-Arab populations, causing a language shift by their gradual adoption of the Arabic language and/or their incorporation of Arab culture or Arab identity. Generally, elements of Arabian origin were combined in various forms with elements from conquered civilizations and ultimately denominated "Arab". Arabization also continued in modern times, most prominently being enforced by the Arab nationalist regimes of Iraq,[1] Syria, Sudan,[2] Mauritania, Algeria[2] and Libya and enforcement of Arab identity and culture upon non-Arab populations, in particular by means of not permitting autochthonous mother tongues other than Arabic in education

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabization

Historic reversions
The Reconquista in Spain is the most notable example for a historic reversion of Arabization. The process of Arabization and Islamization was reversed as the mostly Romance speaking Christian kingdoms in the north of the peninsula gradually re-conquered al-Andalus and re-Romanized and re-Christianized the region.

Reversions in modern times


In modern times, there have been various political developments to reverse the process of Arabization. Notable among these are:

The 1929 introduction of the Latin Alphabet instead of the Arabic Abjad in Turkey as part of the Kemalist reforms.

The 1948 founding of the non-Arab state of Israel in a previously Arab dominated area.

The recent establishment of Kurdish-dominated polities in the Mesopotamia as Iraqi Kurdistan and multi-ethnic Democratic Federation of Northern Syria.

Berberism, a Berber political-cultural movement of ethnic, geographic, or cultural nationalism present in Algeria, Morocco and broader North Africa including Mali. The Berberist movement is in opposition to Islamist-driven cultural Arabization and the pan-Arabist political ideology and also associated with secularism.

There is a longstanding campaign in Iran to remove Arabic loanwords from the Persian language or even give up the Arabic Abjad for a different script, e.g. the Manichaean alphabet.[citation needed]

Arabization of Malays was criticized by Sultan Ibrahim Ismail of Johor. He urged the retention of Malay culture instead of introducing Arab culture. He called on people to not mind unveiled women, mixed sex handshaking and to using Arabic words in place of Malay words. He suggested Saudi Arabia as a destination for those who wanted Arab culture. He said that he was going to adhere to Malay culture himself. Abdul Aziz Bari said that Islam and Arab culture are intertwined and criticized the Johor Sultan for what he said. Datuk Haris Kasim also criticized the Sultan for his remarks, he leads the Selangor Islamic Religious Department.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabization#Reversing_Arabization

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Re: A view from Africa

Post by Didge on Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:41 pm

In 1946, the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry was assembled to examine the political, economic and social conditions in then-Palestine in order to make recommendations on the issue of Jewish immigration and settlement. The committee consulted representatives of both the Arabs and the Jews.

In Chapter VI of their report, the committee presented the Arab side:
Stripped to the bare essentials, the Arab case is based upon the fact that Palestine is a country which the Arabs have occupied for more than a thousand years, and a denial of the Jewish historical claims to Palestine. [emphasis added]
Those were the good old days -- when the Arabs were satisfied just to deny the Jewish ties to the land, without feeling the need to exaggerate their own.

Basically, there are 3 ways that the Arabs could have found their way from Arabia to Judea:
o Invasion, followed by occupation and settling the land
o Conversion of Jews to Islam (which we have already discussed)
o Immigration due to economic problems where they lived and/or economic opportunity in Palestine
But just how many Arabs living in Israel today are descended from the original Arab invaders from the 7th century?

In their article, Whose Palestine? -- a review of Joan Peters book 'From Time Immemorial' -- Erich Isaac and Rael Jean Isaac note:
But not only are the Palestinian Arabs not descendants of Canaanites, it is highly doubtful that more than a very few are even descended from those who settled the country as part of the Arab invasion of the 7th century. For over a thousand years following the Arab conquest, Palestine underwent a series of devastating invasions, followed by massacres of the existing population: Seljuk Turks and Fatimid reconquerors were followed by Crusaders who were followed by waves of Mongol tribes who were followed in turn by Tartars, Mamelukes, Turks, and incessant Bedouin raiders.
They explain further that while various invasions cut down on the number of Arabs descended from those who originally invaded the land, the foreign Arabs who immigrated from abroad during the 18th and 19th centuries, further diluted the original Arab invader population:
o  Egyptians arrived in a number of waves, especially from 1832 to 1840.
o  Sudanese successfully pioneered in the swampy marshlands.
o  Tribes of Bedouin came from as far away as Libya to settle on the coastal plain.
o  Lebanese Christians resettled abandoned villages in the Galilee
o  Armenians, Syrians, and Turks settled in the coastal towns
o  French expansion in North Africa resulted in waves of refugees immigrating to Palestine
o  Many of the followers of the Algerian resistance leader Abd el Kader founded villages in the Galilee
o  Russian expansion into the Caucasus led to the emigration of many of its Muslim peoples (Circassians and Georgians) to Palestine
o  Austrian advance into the Balkans led to the emigration of Bosnian Muslims to Palestine.
o  Turkomans from Russian Central Asia and Kurds also immigrated
By 1931, instead of an Arab population that could trace itself to the 7th century (let alone thousands of years) a census of Palestine listing the birthplaces of the inhabitants of Jerusalem included in addition to Palestine itself: Syria Transjordan, Cyprus, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Persia, Turkey, Algeria, Moroco, Trioli, Tunis, Albania, France, Greece, Spain, Great Britain, the USSR, the US, Central and South America and Australia. [See "From Time Immemorial," p.227, quoting Census of Palestine-1931, vol I, Palestine; Part I]

Daniel Pipes quotes from 11the edition of The Encyclopedia Britannica, (1910-1911). The entry on 'Palestine' was written by the Irish archeologist Robert Alexander Stewart Macalister, who also notes that the population of Palestine at the time was anything but homogeneous:
The inhabitants of Palestine are composed of a large number of elements, differing widely in ethnological affinities, language and religion. It may be interesting to mention, as an illustration of their hetereogeneousness, that early in the 20th century a list of no less than 50 languages, spoken in Jerusalem as vernaculars, was there drawn up by a party of men whose various official positions enabled them to possess accurate information on the subject.
Macalister describes the towns:
In each there is primarily a large Arab element...There are very large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece and Italy, principally engaged in trade. The extraordinary development of Jewish colonization has since 1870 effected a revolution in the balance of population in some parts of the country, notably in Jerusalem.
Pipes summarizes the article:
This overview of Palestine mentions in no less than 20 foreign ethnicities other than the native fellahin (farmers) and the Jews: Assyrian, Persian, Roman, Arabian, Crusader, Nawar, Arabian, Turkic, Armenian, Greek, Italian, Turkoman, Motawila, Kurd, German, Bosnian, Circassian, Sudanese, Algerian, and Samaritan.
In her article Were the Arabs Indigenous to Mandatory Palestine?, Sheree Roth points out the book 'The Rape of Palestine', written by William B. Ziff -- the co-founder of the Ziff-Davis Publishing Company. Published in 1938, Ziff's book notes that the hodgepodge of immigrants in Palestine consisted not only of those fleeing from somewhere or running to Palestine. Sometimes they were imported:
It was always the foreign soldier who was the police power in Palestine. The Tulunides brought in Turks and Negroes. The Fatamids introduced Berbers, Slavs, Greeks, Kurds, and mercenaries of all kinds. The Mamelukes imported legions of Georgians and Circassians. Each monarch for his personal safety relied on great levies of slave warriors. Saladin, hard-pressed by the Crusaders, received one hundred and fifty thousand Persians who were given lands in Galilee and the Sidon district for their services.

Out of this human patch-work of Jews, Arabs, Armenians, Kalmucks, Persians, Crusaders, Tartars, Indians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, Sudanese, Turks, Mongols, Romans, Kharmazians, Greeks, pilgrims, wanderers, ne'er-do-wells and adventurers, invaders, slaves...was formed that hodge-podge of blood and mentality we call today "Levantine."...
Ziff fleshes out the list of immigrants mentioned by Isaac and gives some numbers:
In the fourteenth century, drought caused the immigration into Palestine of eighteen thousand "tents" of Yurate Tartars from the Euphrates. Soon followed twenty thousand Ashiri under Gaza, and four thousand Mongols under Moulai, who occupied the Jordan Valley and settled from Jerusalem south. Kaisaite and Yemenite tribes followed in their trail... 
In 1830 the Albanian conqueror Mehemet [Muhammad] Ali colonized Jaffa, Nablus, and Beisan with Egyptian soldiers and their Sudanese allies. Fourteen years later, Lynch estimated the thirteen thousand inhabitants of Jaffa to be composed of eight thousand Turco-Egyptians, four thousand Greeks and Armenians, and one thousand Jews and Maronites. He did not consider that there were any Arabs at all in that city.

One hundred years ago, [Jaffa] had a population of four thousand. Today it holds seventy thousand, overwhelmingly Arab, who are largely descendants of the Egyptians and Ethiopians brought in by the conqueror Ibrahim Pasha [Muhammad Ali's son]. The few thousand Jews who lived here fled during the 1936 riots, abandoning their shops and property.
There are many ways to describe this Arab population -- but indigenous clearly is not one of them.

More importantly, considering the ongoing influx of all those different nationalities and ethnicities, Arab and otherwise, Jewish immigration whether in the 20th century, the 19th century and even earlier is certainly no less valid.

That is even truer considering the indigenous ties Jews have to the land.

According to the UNHCR Resettlement Handbook (2011):
Indigenous groups are descendants of the peoples who inhabited land or territory prior to colonization or the establishment of state borders. They often have strong attachment to their ancestral lands and natural resources, an attribute that can distinguish them from other minority groups. They may also have distinct social. economic and political systems, languages cultures and beliefs. Their right to self-determination has frequently been impeded by subsequent migration of other ethnic groups into the territory where they reside. (p. 201)
There has been a continuous Jewish presence in Palestine. The Jews of Israel today are ultimately descendants of the Jews who lived on the land long before the Arab occupation of Palestine in the 7th century. The strong attachment of Jews to their ancestral lands is well established in terms of their distinct history, culture, sacred places, language and literature. And yes, this right to self-determination was frequently impeded: most recently by the invasion and migration of the Arabs -- and by the Palestinian Arabs today.

In contrast, Palestinian Arab history, culture, sacred places, language and literature are ultimately tied, as is true of all Arabs, to Arabia.

Along those lines, note that in 2007, the United Nations General Assembly passed the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples:
Article 11
1. Indigenous peoples have the right to practise and revitalize their cultural traditions and customs. This includes the right to maintain, protect and develop the
past, present and future manifestations of their cultures, such as archaeological and historical sites, artefacts, designs, ceremonies, technologies and visual and
performing arts and literature.

Article 31
1. Indigenous peoples have the right to maintain, control, protect and develop their cultural heritage, traditional knowledge and traditional cultural expressions, as well as the manifestations of their sciences, technologies and cultures, including human and genetic resources, seeds, medicines, knowledge of the properties of fauna and flora, oral traditions, literatures, designs, sports and traditional games and visual and performing arts. They also have the right to maintain, control, protect and develop their intellectual property over such cultural heritage, traditional knowledge, and traditional cultural expressions.
By all rights, this declaration should apply in full to Israel's indigenous rights.

Instead, we have seen the UN violate its own declaration, for example through UNESCO attempting to usurp the indigenous Jewish ties to Hebron and Jerusalem and the indigenous Jewish connection and right to the Temple Mount.

When the UN decides to get serious about indigenous rights, they should let Israel know.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-jews-are-indigenous-to-palestine.html

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