The Curse of Cain

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The Curse of Cain Empty The Curse of Cain

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:00 am

The Curse of Cain

After Cain killed his brother, the Lord told him, "A fugitive and a wanderer shalt thou be in the earth."

But the natural order has been reversed, instead the Abels, if they survive, become homeless
wanderers and the Cains build their Caliphates on the tombs of their victims.

"Cursed shall you be from the earth," the Lord said, and so it has been.

The earth under their feet may be cursed, it yields nothing but sand and thistles, but they are nomads, forgetting agriculture, remembering only their tradecraft of murder. They become worshipers of death dreaming of the green verdant fields of paradise which they can reach only if they kill enough men, women and children.

Leaving devastation behind them, dead lands, lost cultures, widows and orphans, they claw their way up to heaven on a ladder of bones.

Everything around them dies until the only green is on their flags. They are cursed from the earth and they curse the earth. Where they go, the world dies.

It is not murder that makes it impossible for Abel to live with Cain says the State Department, says the European Union and says the New York Times. It is Abel's fields and houses that provoke Cain.

The PLO formed a unity government with Hamas and the loud voice of consensus, the voice of men who imagine that they become god when they speak in a single voice, is that it was the Israeli houses that were to blame. It is not Cain's fault that he kills. It is Abel's fault that he builds.

Of the three kidnapped and murdered boys, two Israeli and one American, Jodi Rudoren of the New York Times wrote, "Palestinians... see the very act of attending (school) yeshiva in a West Bank settlement as provocation."

Abel is forever provoking Cain who rises up and kills him. And if only Abel hadn't had so many sheep, if only he hadn't built so well, if only he hadn't made the desert bloom, if only he hadn't won so many wars and if only G-d didn't appear to favor him.

Cain sows fields of corpses of the innocent for the Lord and he still does not understand why his sacrifice is not accepted and why the earth he dwells on is cursed.

Abel does his best to appease Cain with gifts of earth, but the earth is useless to Cain. What good is cursed earth to cursed men? What can a man plant in the desert? What can he harvest when everything dies at his touch? All he can offer is a harvest of death.

That is what he brings to the faintly remembered Creator he calls Allah. From Iraq to Iran, from Kuwait to Saudi Arabia, from Nigeria to Somalia, from Pakistan to Indonesia, he holds up human heads and cries, "Allahu Akbar."

As if G-d needs such petty proofs of superiority.

Cain cannot be appeased with earth. The earth is his curse. All that lives hates him and he hates all that lives. He tortures animals and raises dead crops. He kills his daughters and sisters, his mother, the source of his life and the source of his future, for the same honor that made Cain the first killer.

There is no use negotiating with Cain. There is no compromise that he will accept. Cain is his own curse. He loves death and that is all he will ever have. His acolytes cry, "We love death, you love life."

Cain was meant to wander the earth. To be a rootless nomad whose curse of death would not collect in any single place. He was not meant to build kingdoms of death. He was not meant to rule over a Caliphate of death and a culture of death.

There is no room for Cain anywhere. Where he remains there will be death and suffering. He will kill because it is all he can do. He has nothing else to offer the world, his own kind or the Creator.

The curse of the earth that he brings can only be lifted when he is removed from it. Only when Cain is driven out, will the land come into its fullness, will the people know peace and will the shadow lift from the valleys, mountains, rivers and cities of the land.

Cain seeks sympathy in his wanderings. With bloody hands, he pleads his case. Every one of his victims made him do it. From the east to the west and the north to the south, they all started it.

He kills from one end of the world to the next and it is never his fault. Each time, each Abel did it.

That is why the Lord put the mark of the killer on Cain's forehead. All were meant to know what Cain was and to move him along, prevent him from settling down, becoming offended and killing over his long lost honor, and then beginning a war that would lead to his own death and the deaths of others.

Cain was not to be killed. It was no use killing him because all men have a little Cain in them. The curse of Cain infects in many forms. Nazism, Communism and Islam are only a few examples of the disease. Instead Cain was meant to be a living example of the futility of evil. His accursed nature made him into a living symbol of death. Each thing he touched would be cursed by his existence.

When we remember what Cain is, when we know what his signs, the swastika, the sickle and the crescent, represent, then he is no threat to us.

We move him onward, we cast him out and drive him away before he kills us and we kill him and the cycle of bloodshed that he starts everywhere he goes begins again.

It is when we forget that he becomes truly dangerous. When Abel and Cain cannot be told apart, then Cain can pretend that he is the victim and that Abel was the killer. The blood soaks into the earth and he washes his hands of it and pretends that he knows nothing about it. Men begin playing detectives, they search for the root cause of Cain's crimes and try to understand what provoked him this time.

But even when the Lord does not speak to men, the blood can still be heard crying from the earth. A thousand years of blood, the blood of men, women and children from every race and every part of the world.

Cain has made a mountain of corpses. His Caliphate was built on bones. His code is cruelty and his holy book is written in blood on the flayed skins of his murdered victims.

A thousand years of blood calls from the earth. The cries of peoples long vanished from the earth warn us that we will either drive out Cain or his curse will fill our lands with blood and dust and all that we love and all that we have worked for will die at his cursed touch.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/the-curse-of-cain.html#sthash.Bws9l7ck.dpuf

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:03 am

://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 


That has to be the funniest mumbo jumbo religious babble I have ever heard..

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Post by The Puzzler on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:38 am

Actually, there's a theory that Bigfoot(or feet I suppose) are the descendants of Cain.
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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:40 am

Didge wrote:://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 


That has to be the funniest mumbo jumbo religious babble I have ever heard..
I know right  Laughing Laughing does he ever post his own views because all i see him post is loads of copy and pastes of others views

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:41 am

The Puzzler wrote:Actually, there's a theory that Bigfoot(or feet I suppose) are the descendants of Cain.


I hear Jonah lived in a Whale too for 3 days

 Shocked

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:42 am

The Puzzler wrote:Actually, there's a theory that Bigfoot(or feet I suppose) are the descendants of Cain.
Can you base a theory on a religious myth ?

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:43 am

Didge wrote:
The Puzzler wrote:Actually, there's a theory that Bigfoot(or feet I suppose) are the descendants of Cain.


I hear Jonah lived in a Whale too for 3 days

 Shocked
No No NO i heard Jonah lived in a Wales for 2 days, but hated the leaks

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:52 am

Korban_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:


I hear Jonah lived in a Whale too for 3 days

 Shocked
No No NO i heard Jonah lived in a Wales for 2 days, but hated the leaks


 lol!

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:09 am

quell surprise

something went over didges head



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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:12 am

You mean a story on a myth, yes it was sheer comedy value and utterly daft to say the least

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:49 pm

The funny thing is that you actually think it's talking about Cain and Abel

 ::D:: 

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:52 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:The funny thing is that you actually think it's talking about Cain and Abel

 ::D:: 


 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


It is basing an analogy between the story of Cain and Islam, seriously PMSL, where its rife with utter absurd remarks

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:20 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:The funny thing is that you actually think it's talking about Cain and Abel

 ::D:: 


 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


It is basing an analogy between the story of Cain and Islam, seriously PMSL, where its rife with utter absurd remarks
A poor analogy as well Cain settled down and married his sister Awan, who bore his first son, the first Enoch Cain then establishes the first city, naming it after his son, builds a house, and lives there until it collapses on him, killing him

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:29 pm

It's funny watching your base intellect miss the subtly of the article

 ::D:: 

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:31 pm

Korban_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:


 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


It is basing an analogy between the story of Cain and Islam, seriously PMSL, where its rife with utter absurd remarks
A poor analogy as well  Cain settled down and married his sister Awan, who bore his first son, the first Enoch Cain then establishes the first city, naming it after his son, builds a house, and lives there until it collapses on him, killing him


God even protects him with a mark to warn off people, so is smelly advocating that anyone who appeases is God like?

You cannot make it up how hilarious and funny it is!

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:37 pm

Didge wrote:
Korban_Dallas wrote:
A poor analogy as well  Cain settled down and married his sister Awan, who bore his first son, the first Enoch Cain then establishes the first city, naming it after his son, builds a house, and lives there until it collapses on him, killing him


God even protects him with a mark to warn off people, so is smelly advocating that anyone who appeases is God like?

You cannot make it up how hilarious and funny it is!
He can`t help it he has the "Phobes "

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:37 pm

Actually when you think about this story it is absurd, because Cain is berated by this God, for not offering up a good enough sacrifice to giver produce from the lad, you know this deity wants blood and death which he gets from Able. So because Cain has not satisfied the blood thirsty needs of this deity, he loses his birth right because of this evil deity selfish deity.

Seems this joker who wrote the article is as brainless as smelly.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:38 pm

Korban_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:


God even protects him with a mark to warn off people, so is smelly advocating that anyone who appeases is God like?

You cannot make it up how hilarious and funny it is!
He can`t help it he has the "Phobes "

Big time.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:44 pm

Didge wrote:Actually when you think about this story it is absurd, because Cain is berated by this God, for not offering up a good enough sacrifice to giver produce from the lad, you know this deity wants blood and death which he gets from Able. So because Cain has not satisfied the blood thirsty needs of this deity, he loses his birth right because of this evil deity selfish deity.

Seems this joker who wrote the article is as brainless as smelly.  
when you actually look into most of the crap in the old testament its clear all of it is crap

the new one isn't that much better but has at least some historical base .....the old testament has none ,0 ,zip,nada,fuk all
Cane and able JeZEEEEEE might as well have been lord voldermort and harry potter


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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:45 pm

Oh boy here we go

You'll soon be swamping the forum with loads of  ://?roflmao?/: to show us how chilled out you are

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:47 pm

Korban_Dallas wrote:
Didge wrote:Actually when you think about this story it is absurd, because Cain is berated by this God, for not offering up a good enough sacrifice to giver produce from the lad, you know this deity wants blood and death which he gets from Able. So because Cain has not satisfied the blood thirsty needs of this deity, he loses his birth right because of this evil deity selfish deity.

Seems this joker who wrote the article is as brainless as smelly.  
when you actually look into most of the crap in the old testament its clear all of it is crap the new one isn't that much better but has at least some historical base .....the old testament has none ,0 ,zip,nada,fuk all
cane and able JeZEEEEEE might as well have been lord voldermort and harry potter


So very true, it does start to get some corroborating evidence for people where the first is King Omri, on the Mesha Stele, but this is more about historical people, not mythical bullshit that goes along with it as you have perfectly stated.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:49 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:It's funny watching your base intellect miss the subtly of the article

 ::D:: 


There is no subtly, just sheer comedy value of a muppet not even understanding the story of Cain and Able, but you think appeasers are God like

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:51 pm

"There is no subtlety"

 ::D:: 

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:51 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:"There is no subtlety"

 ::D:: 


In a myth? ha ha ha ha

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Post by stardesk on Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:27 pm

Afternoon folks. What Smelly is doing is highlighting the Islamic militant's agenda of spreading 'the word' by the sword, or gun these days.

As for Cain, it is understndable he was peeved, for Abel's offering was accepted, but his wasn't. Abel had it easy watching the sheep and/or goats, whilst Cain was swetting his nuts off in the fields. Surely, anyone would be upset, although that's no excuse to murder your brother. A bit more about Cain: After being expelled from Eden he went forth with his wife and baby and built a city. And there we have a puzzle. Who for? Considering there were just the three of them. There are no accounts of other people in the world, only those in Eden.

Korben, you mentioned the word 'myth.' I don't know if you've studied mythology but if you have/do you will see there were hundreds of gods and goddesses being worshipped by people all over the world, long before the Israelites came along with their one-god scenario. The Australian Aborigines have their gods and goddesses and they were thousands of miles away from the Middle East, isolated until Europeans came along and displaced them.

Homo Sapien's long long ago, before the advent of Jehovah, were ignorant of natural processes and forces. If the ground shook beneath their feet, it was a god/goddess's anger, the same with a volcano, a sunami, hurricanes, floods, pestilence and disease. God's and goddesses were blamed for it. But, something to bear in mind, the feminine principle was uppermost in their devotions, far more imortant than the male. After all, it is the feminine principle which brings forth life. Yes there are exceptions, but very few and rare. I counted in my files 294 Creator Goddesses, but only 190 gods, which seems to verify what I've said about goddesses being more important.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:44 pm

stardesk wrote:Afternoon folks. What Smelly is doing is highlighting the Islamic militant's agenda of spreading 'the word' by the sword, or gun these days.

As for Cain, it is understndable he was peeved, for Abel's offering was accepted, but his wasn't. Abel had it easy watching the sheep and/or goats, whilst Cain was swetting his nuts off in the fields. Surely, anyone would be upset, although that's no excuse to murder your brother. A bit more about Cain: After being expelled from Eden he went forth with his wife and baby and built a city. And there we have a puzzle. Who for? Considering there were just the three of them. There are no accounts of other people in the world, only those in Eden.

Korben, you mentioned the word 'myth.' I don't know if you've studied mythology but if you have/do you will see there were hundreds of gods and goddesses being worshipped by people all over the world, long before the Israelites came along with their one-god scenario. The Australian Aborigines have their gods and goddesses and they were thousands of miles away from the Middle East, isolated until Europeans came along and displaced them.

Homo Sapien's long long ago, before the advent of Jehovah, were ignorant of natural processes and forces. If the ground shook beneath their feet, it was a god/goddess's anger, the same with a volcano, a sunami, hurricanes, floods, pestilence and disease. God's and goddesses were blamed for it. But, something to bear in mind, the feminine principle was uppermost in their devotions, far more imortant than the male. After all, it is the feminine principle which brings forth life. Yes there are exceptions, but very few and rare. I counted in my files 294 Creator Goddesses, but only 190 gods, which seems to verify what I've said about goddesses being more important.
I have a little Christianity and Egyptian and American Indian beliefs interest me most but can`t claim your vast and intelligent and interesting knowledge of the various gods or religions
i don't believe in any gods to me they are just ways for people to understand and explain what was to them unexplainable and a way to teach the collective understanding (for the time )

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:29 pm

I seriously recon you have all missed the point on this one....

what I think smelly is getting at is that cain is there wherever extremists/militants gather
AND
that the wet letteuce wing of the appeaser brigade ALWAYS spend untold time wringing their hands over the nature of cain, and seeking to place blame for his condition anywhere except for where it REALLY lies....


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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:32 pm

Just as on a smaller scale our "feral youth" MUST NOT be blamed for their criminality.....its all OUR fault for having jobs and an income and enjoying the benefits thereof...

when the criminal burgals you it's YOUR fault for having things worth stealing...when the scroat scratches up your car ...well its your fault for having a nice shiney vehicle.....

and so on.....

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Post by stardesk on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:13 pm

Victor, this 'wet lettuce' tries to be objective and factual, looking at the reality of a situation and its outcome. Would you then say Cain was a nasty jealous person with murder in his make-up? Personally I don't believe so. It was a one-off situation which at the height of the moment ended in tragedy, possibly not intended.

Finally, before this topic gets diverted away from what had the possibility of an interesting subject, very often juvenile and teenager crimes lay at the root of their upbringing. If parents had the time and initiative to talk to their children, discover their interests and potential, and teached them the right way to behave, then they'd grow up to be more responsible and self respecting, as well as having respect for others. A good example is those in these forums who continualy use filthy language, they show no respect for themselves or others, and no way do they belong in a discussion forum.

Right, whinge over, time for a coffee.


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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:21 pm

victor takes it home




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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:31 pm

stardesk wrote:Victor, this 'wet lettuce' tries to be objective and factual, looking at the reality of a situation and its outcome. Would you then say Cain was a nasty jealous person with murder in his make-up? Personally I don't believe so. It was a one-off situation which at the height of the moment ended in tragedy, possibly not intended.

Did cain know the rules? was he "mentally competant"?

Finally, before this topic gets diverted away from what had the possibility of an interesting subject, very often juvenile and teenager crimes lay at the root of their upbringing. If parents had the time and initiative to talk to their children, discover their interests and potential, and teached them the right way to behave, then they'd grow up to be more responsible and self respecting, as well as having respect for others. A good example is those in these forums who continualy use filthy language, they show no respect for themselves or others, and no way do they belong in a discussion forum.


even if those feral youth havnt had the "best" of upringings, they surely know the rules....no need for any other handwringing....

Right, whinge over, time for a coffee.


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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:52 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:I seriously recon you have all missed the point on this one....

what I think smelly is getting at is that cain is there wherever extremists/militants gather
AND
that the wet letteuce wing of the appeaser brigade ALWAYS spend untold time wringing their hands over the nature of cain, and seeking to place blame for his condition anywhere except for where it REALLY lies....



Hilarious so you are saying appeasers are god like!
Again basing this on a myth, what absurdity, only a fool would comapre

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:54 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:Just as on a smaller scale our "feral youth" MUST NOT be blamed for their criminality.....its all OUR fault for having jobs and an income and enjoying the benefits thereof...

when the criminal burgals you it's YOUR fault for having things worth stealing...when the scroat scratches up your car ...well its your fault for having a nice shiney vehicle.....

and so on.....

Absurd again, criminals pay for their crime, but also once they do serve their time, then they can get on with their lives, geta job, you advocate again a view to keep people down for something they once did.

Only you could compare with smelly, that is hilarious


Plus this is equating Cain to communism, Nazism and Islam, daft again!

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:09 pm

obviously didge...you are consumed by newspeak , and such things as allegory must therfore pass you by

"Hilarious so you are saying appeasers are god like!
Again basing this on a myth, what absurdity, only a fool would comapre"

how do you manage to conflate THAT with what I said....the two bear no similarity....


"Absurd again, criminals pay for their crime, but also once they do serve their time, then they can get on with their lives, geta job, you advocate again a view to keep people down for something they once did.

Only you could compare with smelly, that is hilarious


Plus this is equating Cain to communism, Nazism and Islam, daft again!"

Firstly criminals rarely "pay" for their crime...If they did we would NOT have to pay large sums to insurance companies for theft and criminal damage ......THEY would.....

secondly are you SURE english is your first language...because you sure dont understand literary devices

CAIN...is a metaphor for evil, for the jealous unreasoning beast within mankind, For that part of ALL of us that can and would, given the right circumstance, kill for sheer greed and hate.....

Do you not understand that the bible is FULL of allegory and metaphor????

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:18 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:obviously didge...you are consumed by newspeak , and such things as allegory must therfore pass you by
"Hilarious so you are saying appeasers are god like!
Again basing this on a myth, what absurdity, only a fool would comapre"

how do you manage to conflate THAT with what I said....the two bear no similarity....


"Absurd again, criminals pay for their crime, but also once they do serve their time, then they can get on with their lives, geta job, you advocate again a view to keep people down for something they once did.

Only you could compare with smelly, that is hilarious


Plus this is equating Cain to communism, Nazism and Islam, daft again!"

Firstly criminals rarely "pay" for their crime...If they did we would NOT have to pay large sums to insurance companies for theft and criminal damage ......THEY would.....

secondly are you SURE english is your first language...because you sure dont understand literary devices

CAIN...is a metaphor for evil, for the jealous unreasoning beast within mankind, For that part of ALL of us that can and would, given the right circumstance, kill for sheer greed and hate.....

Do you not understand that the bible is FULL of allegory and metaphor????


Of course it does if you read the story of Cain, God appeases Cain by protecting him, by placing a mark to protect him from all others, thus you equate people as God like.
That is your opinion on criminals paying, we have moved away from the death penalty and rightly so, where some criminals wish death anyway s an easy option, but again serving time is paying for a crime, to equate this to your view that some do not
Again what you forget here is that again God is like foreign policies, requiring a blood sacrifice, its policies are poor and then fails to understand its rulings like taking away the land from people will not create problems from people who lived as a majority in the area, it is thus God that creates the problem with his view on what is the more divine sacrifice, blood.
The bible is full of lots of bullshit and you fail to understand how flawed this story actually is as a moral, Cain works hard in the field and yet what he produces is not good enough compared to sacrificing a lamb

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:23 pm

Rubbish didge....

and you DONT know the origins of the ABRAHAMIC religions in any case

the story of cain and abel is allegory for the fight between the pastoral nomads of the time and the settled farming communities of the first city state.... Rolling Eyes 


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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:27 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:Rubbish didge....

and you DONT know the origins of the ABRAHAMIC religions in any case

the story of cain and abel is allegory for the fight between the pastoral nomads of the time and the settled farming communities of the first city state.... Rolling Eyes 


Hilarious, no it is a continuation of God seeking blind obedience to the point we see God instruct Abraham to kill his own son to test his loyalties, to the same vein here we see the same with go on obedience, where God has denied someone their birth right because their offering is not seen as good enough, that is God showing how truly unjust he is and has little to do with any nomads settled people because Cain was settled and had farming the lands, In fact what Cain does is in fact follow the same line of vengeance exposed by the deity itself.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:35 pm

rubbish didge....

You are reading it with the same eye as the "religious" and not seeing it "as it is"

the whole of the OT is a mish-mash of allegory, of metaphor and plain old instruction, scattered through with propaganda to boost the "tribal nomad" ALL taken from the same source as the talmud...

seeing it purely as myth ignores the true nature of it.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:39 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:rubbish didge....

You are reading it with the same eye as the "religious" and not seeing it "as it is"

the whole of the OT is a mish-mash of allegory, of metaphor and plain old instruction, scattered through with propaganda to boost the "tribal nomad" ALL taken from the same source as the talmud...

seeing it purely as myth ignores the true nature of it.

The problem though Victor is that it was written by religious people, you are making views in hindsight, so again you are looking at this completely wrong where again even if you look for the time, it is Cain that is settled and robbed of his titles because his tribute is not seen as good, so no matter which way you look at this, it is the higher power that seeks tributes that makes Cain suffer, because to them his hard graft is not good enough. Cain then attacks and conquers the neighboring city states who have been honered over Cains terriotory, is then allowed to leave the lands after the higher power defeats him, so again you fail to look at this from your own view point

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:00 pm

Sorry didge....

the abrahamic religin was first promulgated by (surprise) abraham....
nothing to do with burning bushes, gods on mountains etc.
Abraham and his pals (the nomadic desert tribes) were originally of the same religion as the first sumarian city state...
HOWEVER

there was contention. because the city residents (softy larger dinging southerners Razz )objected (violently) to abraham and his nomads (the millwall supporrters of the time) raiding their fields of nosh, to feed their sheep and camels (not surprisingly)...

this of course meant that abraham and his mates were getting a bit thin round the middle and the tribes were in danger of disintegration.

what to do....well you know, old abraham wasnt a dumbo...he wasnt tribal leader for nothing...

so He "reinvented the religion" to suit him and to "solidify" the tribes (as we know religion can be a tremendous "social glue" to highlight "them and us" and create a unified front...we see it today)

so the OT religion was the old sumerian religion "turned 180 degrees on its head"..instead of (as in the sumerian reigion) the gods renaging on a deal with man kind, instead man renaged on a deal with god.
instead of god teating man like crap. man treated god like crap...and so on....


this enabled him to gather the tribes togather under his authority and (quite successfully) make war against the city state...

hence abel the pastoral sheep herder was "better" in the eyes of god  than the idle grain growing city type as exemplified by cain

"the garden IN eden" (NOT "of" eden)


the city state had a "garden" (actually farmed fields) around it....which of course was then surrounded by the wild "outside
this outside was........The edin (eden) hence the "garden in (the) edin"
which was the desired target from whence the nomads had been "banished"......

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:10 pm

That is even more absurd, Abraham is again a myth and again the OT is more like the Aten religion with whilst the Jews were in Captivity in Babylonia borrowing other stories themselves to add to there myths, so again you are way off the mark on this one. They use the stories to justify rights to lands based divinely so, more than anything. The Aten was the first monotheistic religion, where it is known the Hyksos once ruled in Egypt, who were a confederation of Tribes many of which scholars believe one such tribe were the Hebrews, such Hebrew names can be found as even one of the Pharaohs, to then later be defeated and enslaved. A revolt is later recorded by such slaves is Egypt by Mantheo

Again you have an Empire, lets say the Egyptians, and two vassal states, who pay tribute, one of them works very hard, be it Cain and supplies food as produce, by does not supply men for its armed forces, where as Abel supplies men for the Egyptians, hence the meaning of blood sacrifice, it sacrifices its men for them. Thus the Egyptians grant higher status to Able's lands, where once Cain's lands had this status. Cains's lands after years of servitude is angered after being treated so poorly and attacks Abel's lands destroying them. The net point though is interesting, Eygpt, attacks and expels the people of Cain not in slavery and marks them to be untouched through their lands.

So again you fail to see through what is really meant here by religious balderdash

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:32 pm

well I'll tend to beleive an attested source over your theories anyday didge....

aten religion was around in 12th dynasty Egypt
1991-1802 BCE approx

Abraham is attested at least 1000 years earlier

abrahams religion IS...like it or not virtually "the epic of gilgamesh" turned 180 degrees on its head

even  the story of adam and eve (and the serpent) is there...but different....

go read...thouroughy (and it will take you ages...sorry) this site

http://www.bibleorigins.net/

then spend a bit of time thinking about what he has to say....

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:50 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:well I'll tend to beleive an attested source over your theories anyday didge....

aten religion was around in 12th dynasty Egypt
1991-1802 BCE approx

Abraham is attested at least 1000 years earlier

abrahams religion IS...like it or not virtually "the epic of gilgamesh" turned 180 degrees on its head

even  the story of adam and eve (and the serpent) is there...but different....

go read...thouroughy (and it will take you ages...sorry) this site

http://www.bibleorigins.net/

then spend a bit of time thinking about what he has to say....


There is no proof of Abraham existence, there is for the Aten, all archaeology points to religions for the time in   the area of the Hebrews being a pantheon of deities. Only evidence appears much later for only one deity, way after the Aten. Again the bible is made up of multiple authors, so need to try and tell me what I know on the bible, in fact if you even see, Adam is created twice in two different stories, stories over lap .
Again I have studied theology, and do not forget the Hebrew religion had been going for at least 500 years before their captivity in Babylon, they thus borrowed stories, and made them their own.

I have read all the early myths of the Sumerians, where Enki creates man, not just one by the way with his own blood, or seed, and it is the God Enlil, who wants to create men to work as slaves for the Gods, it is Enki who is the champion of humans, who's representation is the serpent by the way, which is also a medical symbol, being as he was the real creator God, though Enlil is seen more as the biblical deity. It is Enlil that wants to wipe out humanity, and it is Enki who again saves humanity with building an ark, so please spare me on what I know Victor, as I know plenty. As seen Enki is portrayed as the opposite in the bible, as evil and Enlil as God. The point is much of the Hebrew religion is based around the Aten, with again stories added later whilst they were in captivity, even before this captivity, the Jews, were still worshiping other deities in the form of a consort and a son.

The biggest failing here though is again that Cain actually represents Civilizations, he is allowed to leave and builds the first city, named after his son, so this article is so way off the mark it is very embarrassing to say the least

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:54 pm

oh here we go...didge knows....

my god man you must know everything


you are an exspurt....


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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:56 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:oh here we go...didge knows....

my god man you must know everything


you are an exspurt....



No idea what as exspurt is, but on theology I know plenty, you are going head to head with me on something I have studied loads, if you cannot counter, then stop wasting my time and in fact I bet you Stardesk backs up most of what I stated in the last two posts, and if he does are you going to deny his knowledge on this also?
I suggest you research on the points I gave for you to see many are accurate

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:58 pm

I suggest you read the link I provided.....

oh and remember occams razor.....

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:59 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:I suggest you read the link I provided.....

oh and remember occams razor.....


Counter my points, stop being a complete copout!

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:01 pm

yours is merely one of many differing views on this....

you may as well consider this as accurate ....


http://www.crystalinks.com/sumergods.html

I'm not intending to get into an argument about the relative accuracy of different theories...

however you dont have to make everything complicated...


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The Curse of Cain Empty Re: The Curse of Cain

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:02 pm

Didge wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:I suggest you read the link I provided.....

oh and remember occams razor.....


Counter my points, stop being a complete copout!

who the f**k do you think you are you arrrogant little man


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The Curse of Cain Empty Re: The Curse of Cain

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:05 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:


Counter my points, stop being a complete copout!

who the f**k do you think you are you arrrogant little man



Now to really take the piss out of you showing you know little, from your own academic:


http://www.bibleorigins.net/Hebrewhabiruslaves.html

How embarrassing!


Way bigger then you dummy and way more knowing in theology than you

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