COMMENTARY: Christianity’s new look on gays

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:19 pm

(RNS) Could there be a future where most American Christians support same-sex relationships? If so, it will be due to the emergence of conservative Christians who say orthodox believers can support lifelong, monogamous gay relationships without undermining their commitment to biblical authority.
In evangelical gay Christian Matthew Vines’ new book, “God and the Gay Christian,” he examines the six biblical passages on same-sex behavior and argues that they do not address today’s long-term gay relationships.


New Testament scholar James Brownson, who wrote the 2013 book “Bible, Gender, Sexuality,” concurs. He told me: “Male-male sex in the ancient world was episodic. It was mainly young boys with older men or male slaves and masters. It was not mutual. These were not relationships, they were not marriage and they were not meant to turn into marriage.” Brownson said to compare what ancient writers viewed as heterosexual “sexual excess” — akin to gluttony — with the modern concept of sexual orientation is misguided.


This is not a matter of molding biblical teaching to satisfy a personal belief. Both Vines and Brownson hold a “high view” of Scripture, meaning it is the final authority on all matters of faith and life. They oppose unbiblical divorce and premarital sex, for example. But Brownson says, “The issue of sexual orientation represents new data that the church needs to ask itself, ‘Should this change the way we look at this?’”


The church has done this before, on issues ranging from slavery to the solar system.
Vines writes: “Christians did not change their minds about (the sun revolving around the Earth) because they lost respect for … the authority of Scripture. They changed their minds because they were confronted with evidence their predecessors had never considered.”


Both men argue there is plenty of new evidence to consider, including the fact that same-sex orientation is not a choice. Even the head of the now shuttered leading “ex-gay” ministry has stated that 99.9 percent of people he has met with same-sex attraction “have not experienced a change in their orientation.”

http://www.religionnews.com/2014/06/04/commentary-christianitys-new-look-gays/

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:27 pm

yeat its about as right as gay clergy and gays marrying in church...

it is strictly against scripture and should be left as such..

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:30 pm

America?

lol

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:35 pm

Good to see such progression as has happened for the last 100 years with some Christians, funny how some wish to hold back progression and equal rights.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:38 pm

Didge wrote:Good to see such progression as has happened for the last 100 years with some Christians, funny how some wish to hold back progression and equal rights.

lol some uphold God's law, some would attempt to bend it to make it more acceptable to certain minorities..

perhaps the gays should have a go at getting the muslim world to temper their attitude...

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:41 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Didge wrote:Good to see such progression as has happened for the last 100 years with some Christians, funny how some wish to hold back progression and equal rights.

lol some uphold God's law, some would attempt to bend it to make it more acceptable to certain minorities..

perhaps the gays should have a go at getting the muslim world to temper their attitude...


So you believe then that the sun revolves around the earth then?

At least they are experts on the scriptures, which is more than can be said for you the amount of times you have been shown to be poor on your own faith.

You will get left behind and they make a good case and anything that brings cohesion is the way forward, yet as seem you wish to deny people equal rights now as if you are speaking for your own deity, how odd indeed, when there was me thinking that it reads he did create all equal.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:44 pm

Didge wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

lol some uphold God's law, some would attempt to bend it to make it more acceptable to certain minorities..

perhaps the gays should have a go at getting the muslim world to temper their attitude...


So you believe then that the sun revolves around the earth then?

At least they are experts on the scriptures, which is more than can be said for you the amount of times you have been shown to be poor on your own faith.

You will get left behind and they make a good case and anything that brings cohesion is the way forward, yet as seem you wish to deny people equal rights now as if you are speaking for your own deity, how odd indeed, when there was me thinking that it reads he did create all equal.

lol no i don't..lol

i did believe we had one more planet than we did, scientists lied about that apparently...

so are you going to take your gay case to the muslims....see how progressive they feel ..... Smile 

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:46 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Didge wrote:


So you believe then that the sun revolves around the earth then?

At least they are experts on the scriptures, which is more than can be said for you the amount of times you have been shown to be poor on your own faith.

You will get left behind and they make a good case and anything that brings cohesion is the way forward, yet as seem you wish to deny people equal rights now as if you are speaking for your own deity, how odd indeed, when there was me thinking that it reads he did create all equal.

lol no i don't..lol

i did believe we had one more planet than we did, scientists lied about that apparently...

so are you going to take your gay case to the muslims....see how progressive they feel ..... Smile 


WTF, did not understand any of that, on planets? 

Again I wish the same to happen with Muslims and this has come from Christians themselves, so I did not come up with this, so your point has again no relevance accept to deflect away from the topic at hand which is coming from Christians.

So again you wish to deny what your own God has claimed in the religious works, that all are created equal

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:50 pm

Didge wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

lol no i don't..lol

i did believe we had one more planet than we did, scientists lied about that apparently...

so are you going to take your gay case to the muslims....see how progressive they feel ..... Smile 


WTF, did not understand any of that, on planets? 

Again I wish the same to happen with Muslims and this has come from Christians themselves, so I did not come up with this, so your point has again no relevance accept to deflect away from the topic at hand which is coming from Christians.

So again you wish to deny what your own God has claimed in the religious works, that all are created equal

it depends if they are Christians, remember, mormons and Jw's claim to be Christians...

i can wait for those gays to go to the muslims and say you must accept us, well put it this way, they might be hanging around for some time...

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:03 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Didge wrote:


WTF, did not understand any of that, on planets? 

Again I wish the same to happen with Muslims and this has come from Christians themselves, so I did not come up with this, so your point has again no relevance accept to deflect away from the topic at hand which is coming from Christians.

So again you wish to deny what your own God has claimed in the religious works, that all are created equal

it depends if they are Christians, remember, mormons and Jw's claim to be Christians...

i can wait for those gays to go to the muslims and say you must accept us, well put it this way, they might be hanging around for some time...


You keep bringing up Muslims on a thread about Christians giving their view on the scripture, anyone would think you are obsessed with them, where again I want them to show equality to homosexuals, not sure how many times you keep needing to be told and this is actually happening, but has no relevance to the debate on Biblical scripture.

So now you claim is based upon your view of who is Christian, when you stated to be Christians you have to believe in Jesus, of which all of the above do, by your own logic, which shows how you confuse yourself in your own answers.

So again look at what they have stated about homosexuality in the bible, then you need to refute this.

I am just glad many Christians are progressive like this, and praise them for this, and it is sad you wish to drag their views backwards by centuries. 

Right no doubt you will keep deflecting the thread, and will look in later as have to go but I think this is encouraging from Christians

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:22 pm

Didge wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

it depends if they are Christians, remember, mormons and Jw's claim to be Christians...

i can wait for those gays to go to the muslims and say you must accept us, well put it this way, they might be hanging around for some time...


You keep bringing up Muslims on a thread about Christians giving their view on the scripture, anyone would think you are obsessed with them, where again I want them to show equality to homosexuals, not sure how many times you keep needing to be told and this is actually happening, but has no relevance to the debate on Biblical scripture.

So now you claim is based upon your view of who is Christian, when you stated to be Christians you have to believe in Jesus, of which all of the above do, by your own logic, which shows how you confuse yourself in your own answers.

So again look at what they have stated about homosexuality in the bible, then you need to refute this.

I am just glad many Christians are progressive like this, and praise them for this, and it is sad you wish to drag their views backwards by centuries. 

Right no doubt you will keep deflecting the thread, and will look in later as have to go but I think this is encouraging from Christians

i do not need to refute anything, i know what the bible says about queers, the fact that so many queers argue against the bible shows they know what it says...

they may call themselves Christians but if they are not following the bible perhaps they are not... Smile 

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:26 pm

That again is an opinion and not backing up the opinion and as seen by a master class by lovedust and others, you are a mere student of the bible and nothing more.

You said Christians are believers in Jesus, now you place more conditions when it suits you, which shows you move the goal posts to suit your arguments, sorry, not going to happen and hence will show up your  contradictions.

laters

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:34 pm

Didge wrote:That again is an opinion and not backing up the opinion and as seen by a master class by lovedust and others, you are a mere student of the bible and nothing more.

You said Christians are believers in Jesus, now you place more conditions when it suits you, which shows you move the goal posts to suit your arguments, sorry, not going to happen and hence will show up your  contradictions.

laters

I have said nothing of the sort you will follow the word of God as a Christian...

what is opinion what the bible says about queers no it is quite clear...

is saying that queers no what the bible says about them opinion , no it's not, why do you think queers argue against the bible... Smile 

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:43 pm

Notice in dodge's OP......


'...It was mainly young boys with older men...'




Was that homosexuality and/or child abuse...?



Seems that dodge claims that men today who target only boys are not homosexuals!!!



lol!

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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Notice in dodge's OP......


'...It was mainly young boys with older men...'




Was that homosexuality and/or child abuse...?



Seems that dodge claims that men today who target only boys are not homosexuals!!!



lol!

lol that's a good point... Smile 

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