Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

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Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by eddie on Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

By Tom Parmenter, Sky News Correspondent, in Praia da Luz
Police officers in Praia da Luz have erected tents over several locations they have deemed significant as they use radar equipment and sniffer dogs to search scrubland close to where Madeleine McCann went missing.

Two forensic officers were seen entering the tents to examine what was hidden below.

One of the tents is covering a hole concealed by corrugated iron which was exposed on Tuesday after trees and shrubs were cut down.

Earlier, the detective leading the British review into Madeleine's disappearance, DCI Andy Redwood, examined the area which it is thought had been covered by the iron for a number of years.

Police also began using ground-penetrating radar equipment for the first time as they scoured the scrubland for a third day.

The scanners can be used to examine the sub-surface of the ground several metres down.

Experts will then look for any anomalies in the ground that may signify the earth has been disturbed.

Former Metropolitan Police search advisor Keith Farquharson told Sky News: "It will show anomalies within the earth structure (but) it won't show a skeleton like an X-ray would. "It would just show the anomaly in the ground. That would have to be investigated and the best way to do that initially is (with) victim recovery dogs."

Police have not revealed what intelligence they have that leads them to the scrubland, which is a five-minute walk from the Algarve holiday complex where three-year-old Madeleine had been staying with her family.

The youngster disappeared from her family's apartment in the Ocean Club resort in May 2007.


http://news.sky.com/story/1274954/madeleine-mccann-police-tents-erected


This scrubland is five minutes from the apartment where she went "missing"
WHY would an 'abductor' take her and bury her five minutes away???

Where are the McCanns?

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by eddie on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:27 pm

Didge wrote:
eddie wrote:

Nems was referring to my rant.
Not the McCanns.



And? She replied to me doing what she always does use poor emotive responses, I am referring to you haters, and if you have the decency to even contemplate if you might be wrong, which it seems none of you can even answer, speaks volumes yet again


Of course I might be wrong! I'm not you, who always, always, always, thinks he's right.

But i don't think I'm wrong because I believe the sniffer dogs and I disbelieve the many stories of the McCanns.

Ok with that, are you?

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:29 pm

Not enough evidence to charge.
Does not mean no evidence at all.
There IS enough evidence to know what happened.....
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT ANYTHING ELSE HAPPENED!!!

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:33 pm

eddie wrote:
Didge wrote:



And? She replied to me doing what she always does use poor emotive responses, I am referring to you haters, and if you have the decency to even contemplate if you might be wrong, which it seems none of you can even answer, speaks volumes yet again


Of course I might be wrong! I'm not you, who always, always, always, thinks he's right.

But i don't think I'm wrong because I believe the sniffer dogs and I disbelieve the many stories of the McCanns.

Ok with that, are you?


Really? Is that why I am able to admit when I am wrong and you never are able to do so an then you just prove me right by saying you do not think you are wrong.

What have I to be wrong about when I am open to the possibility they could have killed their daughter, or do you not even understand the difference you are so obsessed with this story?

The fact is you and the other little cult following are just rather pathetic to be honest.

You believe the sniffer Dog, not dogs, where again even experts say such evidence only points to possibilities an as seen you take as facts a child is dead, when all we know is this dog was trained to detect 3 things, body fluids, blood and death scents, what is never explained is why Eddie does not alert on multiple occasions to items, it later alerted to. This leaves room for doubt on the part of the dog, as to why it did not alert, if as claimed it is an expert, because surely the dog would alert the first time. It never did, that leaves room as stated for doubt in the ability of the dog. You also nee to have forensic evidence to back up the alerts, of which none has, you of course ignore all this an just take as gospel, which shows sadly on your part again you are incapable of impartiality

So explain to me why the Dog failed to alert on numerous occasions

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:40 pm

You need to explain the following Eddie:






This summarized description raises a question that we would like to see answered: could the dog be 'marking' not the odours emanated from a cadaver, directly or indirectly (by contagious), but from blood in putrefaction'

These dogs are means for obtaining proof but they cannot be used as proof. They must be taken as instruments. Any vestige, even invisible to the eye, recovered with the use of these dogs, has to be subjected to forensic exam on a credited laboratory.

It is the same Martin Grime that, at pages 2271, refers on his report: 'Although it cannot constitute proof admissible to court, it can help on the recovery of intelligence for the investigation of serious crimes'.

In this case the dogs signalled several places. The technicians of the Scientific Police Laboratory recovered those vestiges ' vestiges that that on it's majority were not visible to the eye ' and sent them to the laboratories for the necessary forensic exams, in order to recover and identify the DNA profiles, that might be extracted from them.

From the screening of the videos, referred previously, done when the dogs were working, some doubts arise. We don't want and we can't take the place of the trainer, we only wish to alert, with this paragraph, to some facts, that according to us, need further clarification.

If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'

On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'

Apart from all that was said about the dogs, we must also take into attention the results of the forensic analysis that was performed by the experts on the Scientific Police Laboratory on the day immediately after the facts, and already mentioned where no vestige of blood was found.



http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk//PJ/ANALYSIS-11-VOLUMES.htm


I mean why is it the Police see problems and you an others try to mull over them?

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by eddie on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:43 pm

It all depends on whether you feel there is help from other powers-that-be.

Now, I've been here done this, seven years ago.

You keep going with your open-minded approach and I'll go on with mine.

But this thread is going in circles.

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:46 pm

eddie wrote:It all depends on whether you feel there is help from other powers-that-be.

Now, I've been here done this, seven years ago.

You keep going with your open-minded approach and I'll go on with mine.

But this thread is going in circles.


Oh for fuck sake, what next Masonic influence, is that your next clutch at straws.

You conspiracy loons need to get out more and get a life, where is your evidence of powers that be would be so influenced by a middle class family?
behave, it gets more ridiculous by the minute your claims.

I asked you a question, you divert as per usual, why did the dog not alert when it as claimed it is supposed to be an expert?

If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'

On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'



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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:55 pm

The dog is trained to try to locate the origin of scent when scent is detected.


So he would carry on searching and then return to place where scent was strongest.





He indicates death scent with his head in the air and barking.



This was what he did in the McCanns apartment, their hire car and on McCanns clothes and cuddle cat toy.




For The scent of death to start being released from a body, it has to be dead for at least about an hour and half.



So if dog detected death in the apartment, which I strongly believe he did, there must have been a dead body there for at least an hour and half, It must have been Madeleine, and The parents must have been involved.



Simple logic.



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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:03 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The dog is trained to try to locate the origin of scent when scent is detected.
So he would carry on searching and then return to place where scent was strongest.
He indicates death scent with his head in the air and barking.
This was what he did in the McCanns apartment, their hire car and on McCanns clothes and cuddle cat toy.For The scent of death to start being released from a body, it has to be dead for at least about an hour and half.
So if dog detected death in the apartment, which I strongly believe he did, there must have been a dead body there for at least an hour and half, It must have been Madeleine, and The parents must have been involved.
Simple logic.





 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

never laughed so much at such made up rubbish before in all my life


He is trained to alert when he scents this smell, thus why did he not alert, when he smelled the toy?

If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'

On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'






Try again

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:14 pm

Already answered this multiple times pages back.....


And in my last post too!!!



But here it is again for dodge the hard of reading and thinking.....

The dog is trained to try to locate the origin of scent when scent is detected.

So he would carry on searching and then return to place where scent was strongest.


He indicates death scent with his head in the air and barking.

This was what he did in the McCanns apartment, their hire car and on McCanns clothes and cuddle cat toy.




He clearly showed interest in the cuddle cat toy, he selected it from a line up and moved it.


This toy was then put in an empty cupboard and he then detected scent of death there coming from toy.


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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:19 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Already answered this multiple times pages back.....
And in my last post too!!!
But here it is again for dodge the hard of reading and thinking.....
The dog is trained to try to locate the origin of scent when scent is detected.
So he would carry on searching and then return to place where scent was strongest.

He indicates death scent with his head in the air and barking.
This was what he did in the McCanns apartment, their hire car and on McCanns clothes and cuddle cat toy.
He clearly showed interest in the cuddle cat toy, he selected it from a line up and moved it.
This toy was then put in an empty cupboard and he then detected scent of death there coming from toy.



The dog is trained to alert when it scents death.

The dog failed to alert on numerous occasions to objects it sniffed at.

If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'

On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'





Try again

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by eddie on Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:27 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Already answered this multiple times pages back.....


And in my last post too!!!



But here it is again for dodge the hard of reading and thinking.....

The dog is trained to try to locate the origin of scent when scent is detected.

So he would carry on searching and then return to place where scent was strongest.


He indicates death scent with his head in the air and barking.

This was what he did in the McCanns apartment, their hire car and on McCanns clothes and cuddle cat toy.




He clearly showed interest in the cuddle cat toy, he selected it from a line up and moved it.


This toy was then put in an empty cupboard and he then detected scent of death there coming from toy.


Are you a glutton for punishment???  Shocked 

How was your curry?

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:32 pm

eddie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Already answered this multiple times pages back.....


And in my last post too!!!



But here it is again for dodge the hard of reading and thinking.....

The dog is trained to try to locate the origin of scent when scent is detected.

So he would carry on searching and then return to place where scent was strongest.


He indicates death scent with his head in the air and barking.

This was what he did in the McCanns apartment, their hire car and on McCanns clothes and cuddle cat toy.




He clearly showed interest in the cuddle cat toy, he selected it from a line up and moved it.


This toy was then put in an empty cupboard and he then detected scent of death there coming from toy.


Are you a glutton for punishment???   Shocked 

How was your curry?

I prove my point again how people who are so convinced of a persons guilt cannot see flaws.

The dog is trained to alert, that means it will alert if it scents death, it does not go off and check elsewhere to make sure, it alerts when it scents death, thus the dog failed to alert and even the experts point this out showing why did the dog fail to do so.

What matti claims is illogical, because now he is saying the dog has a unique training method, where it does not alert to death, it has to go and check first to make sure it is right>

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

I mean this is not what Grimes claimed he trained the dog to do as Matti claims

It shows what he asserts is daft.

A dog trained alerts to a scent, this dog did not alert until much later, so why did the dog fail to alert many times.

Thna you eddie for proving how badly those who find them guilty ignore these major flaws

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:08 pm

How many times do you need to be told this????




The dog is trained to detect a scent and then look around for where this scent is originating from.



This means he would continue looking around AFTER the scent was first detected, and then will indicate the location or item where the scent is strongest and originating from.


This has been explained multiple times already and is clearly explained by the handler himself.



What bit of this do you not understand????







Very nice Eddie, got a whole pot full to get through for The rest of the week.


I'll drop you the recipe If you want...?

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:How many times do you need to be told this????

The dog is trained to detect a scent and then look around for where this scent is originating from.
This means he would continue looking around AFTER the scent was first detected, and then will indicate the location or item where the scent is strongest and originating from.
This has been explained multiple times already and is clearly explained by the handler himself.
What bit of this do you not understand????
Very nice Eddie, got a whole pot full to get through for The rest of the week.
I'll drop you the recipe If you want...?


Balderdash, the dog is trained to alert to a scent, when it finds this scent it alerts, thus if the dog does not alert to an object, it thus becomes a problem why the dog did not alert. To claim it looks around and sniffs something and does not find that scent say from the toy, shows the dog has not picked up the scent from the toy, it would not walk away, it would alert the toy has death scent from it dummy. It either scents death from an object or does not.
Thus, hence why the Police questioned the validity of the dog. This is proven as well with the car, where the dog, four times has to be called back to the car, if the dog had not been called back, it would not have alerted after coaching from the owner

None of this you explain, you give instead made up bull which the expert himself does not claim in regards to training the dogs 

You are talking the worst bullshit ever



Try again

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:23 pm

Wrong!!!



The dog is trained to locate the origin of the scent when detected.



As we all know how a scent will travel in the air.



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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:26 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Wrong!!!
The dog is trained to locate the origin of the scent when detected.
As we all know how a scent will travel in the air.




 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 

Well this is a new one, where before you claim it could not travel, so what you are saying now that whilst the dog was searching the apartment the scent only landed on the toy after the third time the dog went up to it?
That the scent was not on the toy when the dog first came into the apartment?

 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 

You are just making things up as you go along

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:35 pm

When have I ever claimed that a scent will not travel in a draft?


In fact I have already said that it would when explainig what the dog was doing in that footage you posted up a couple of pages back.


Explaining that the scent from car must have been moving in a slight draft and you could see dog following it with his nose in the air like the bisto kid!!!



You do like to make up complete lies dodge don't you!?



The dog would have detected the scent and then carried on looking for strongest source.



The cattoy was also placed into a clean empty cupboard and The dog then indicated this again just to make sure.



You are still clutching but ran out of straws long ago....

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:When have I ever claimed that a scent will not travel in a draft?
In fact I have already said that it would when explainig what the dog was doing in that footage you posted up a couple of pages back.
Explaining that the scent from car must have been moving in a slight draft and you could see dog following it with his nose in the air like the bisto kid!!!
You do like to make up complete lies dodge don't you!?
The dog would have detected the scent and then carried on looking for strongest source.
The cattoy was also placed into a clean empty cupboard and The dog then indicated this again just to make sure.
You are still clutching but ran out of straws long ago....


Hilarious and yet more balderdash.

The dog is trained to alert to the scent of death, as well as body fluids and blood.
The dog plays, bits and sniffs the toy and also ignores it, then later alerts a death scent from the toy.
Thus is the dog is trained to alert tot he scent of death, why did it fail to do so multiple times to only later alert?  
It is not following the scent through the air, it goes up to the items to sniff them, like as seen with the car, it did not pick up any scents, it had to be called back tot he car and pointed where to sniff an then only alerts after being coached.

Thus there is a big problem, which anyone with an ounce of common sense can see, unless they are a right dummy like Matti.

The dog did not alert to the toy, thus to claim it did and then go searching for an even bigger source, is just made up bullshit, you have come out with to try and explain why the dog failed to alert

How fucking more close does a dog have to get to something, by playing with  it, chewing it to not detect the smell?

Seriously, read back the bull you are coming out with because it does not even match what the dog is trained to do.

Try again

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by eddie on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:How many times do you need to be told this????




The dog is trained to detect a scent and then look around for where this scent is originating from.



This means he would continue looking around AFTER the scent was first detected, and then will indicate the location or item where the scent is strongest and originating from.


This has been explained multiple times already and is clearly explained by the handler himself.



What bit of this do you not understand????







Very nice Eddie, got a whole pot full to get through for The rest of the week.


I'll drop you the recipe If you want...?

I always make big batches of food.
Yes please Matt, I do love a new recipe lol

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:45 pm

eddie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:How many times do you need to be told this????




The dog is trained to detect a scent and then look around for where this scent is originating from.



This means he would continue looking around AFTER the scent was first detected, and then will indicate the location or item where the scent is strongest and originating from.


This has been explained multiple times already and is clearly explained by the handler himself.



What bit of this do you not understand????







Very nice Eddie, got a whole pot full to get through for The rest of the week.


I'll drop you the recipe If you want...?

I always make big batches of food.
Yes please Matt, I do love a new recipe lol



Yes I love a good recipe, one that makes sense not one that is illogical.

lol

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:02 pm

The dog did select the toy out of line up and move it out of line up and stood there next to the toy looking back at handler.
This toy was then put into an empty clean cupboard and then the dog indicates this cupboard.
Thus giving a positive indication on the cuddle cat toy.
When the dog is looking at The cars, he becomes exited and noticeable change in his body language is seen and witnessed by the handler as he gets near the McCanns hire car.
The handler explains this noticeable change happens when dog has got onto a scent.
The dog then tries to follow scent to establish origin as trained.
You can clearly see him following this scent with his nose in the air as it drifts away from McCanns car in draft.
Bit like the old bisto kid adverts.
The handler can see what is happening with the years of experience and knowledge of this dog.
And gets dog to come back to car where scent is first detected.
The dog investigates further and then indicates the gap at bottom of door where there would be a tiny bit of air/scent escaping from the inside of car.
This car was the only car indicated by Eddie the death dog, and at This time the handler did not know which car belonged to who, so completely impartial and unbiased.
The handler was acting only on the behaviour of the dog and his knowledge of the dog and how he acts when he has detected a scent.
All of This has already been covered pages ago so I don't know why you are still bringing it up As a relevant argument when it clearly is not.

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The dog did select the toy out of line up and move it out of line up and stood there next to the toy looking back at handler.
But did not alert
This toy was then put into an empty clean cupboard and then the dog indicates this cupboard.
Incorrect, it then moved past this twice and did not alert
Thus giving a positive indication on the cuddle cat toy.
No, that is no indication, the dog is trained to alert to the scent of death, blood and body fluids and thus did not alert to anything from the toy, not until later, this again poses a big problem
When the dog is looking at The cars, he becomes exited and noticeable change in his body language is seen and witnessed by the handler as he gets near the McCanns hire car.
He was excited at the start and found nothing, thus a dog excited could be explain by many things, the dog failed to alert and had to be called back, you are offering again what you perceive when you have no idea why the dog was just excited to be doing what it is trained to do
The handler explains this noticeable change happens when dog has got onto a scent.
The handler can only offer a view and does not fully understand everything its dog will do and more to the point whether that view is right, again what cannot be dismissed, is the fact the owner had to call the dog back multiple times to this one car, if he had not called the dog back, no alert would have happened an that is a fact
The dog then tries to follow scent to establish origin as trained.
Incorrect, because the dog moved away from the car 4 times, how is that following a scent, by moving away?
You can clearly see him following this scent with his nose in the air as it drifts away from McCanns car in draft.
Sorry now you are again making up bullshit, the dog had to be called back 4 times, following a scent would have led the dog to the car and no where else, the dog moved away four times
Bit like the old bisto kid adverts.
Nothing like bisto, the dog moved away from the scent
The handler can see what is happening with the years of experience and knowledge of this dog.
The handler can see the dog is not picking up the scent and thus shouts an bangs to get the dogs attention, any idiot can see that

And gets dog to come back to car where scent is first detected.
The dog comes back and then leaves 3 more time
The dog investigates further and then indicates the gap at bottom of door where there would be a tiny bit of air/scent escaping from the inside of car.
Only after being called back four times, after coaching from the owner
This car was the only car indicated by Eddie the death dog, and at This time the handler did not know which car belonged to who, so completely impartial and unbiased.
Eddie only alerted to the same alert as Keela, which would mean blood, which both are trained to detect, Eddie failed to alert to the boot, so there is no indication the dog alerted to death, you forget that Eddie can alert to the same as Keela
The handler was acting only on the behaviour of the dog and his knowledge of the dog and how he acts when he has detected a scent.
No the handler was acting on the fact the dog was ignoring the car as easily seen
All of This has already been covered pages ago so I don't know why you are still bringing it up As a relevant argument when it clearly is not.


No as seen you are just making things up as you go along


Try agai

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Spindleshanks on Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:34 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Not enough evidence to charge.
Does not mean no evidence at all.
There IS enough evidence to know what happened.....
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT ANYTHING ELSE HAPPENED!!!

Nowhere does it say there is not enough evidence to charge the McCanns. The attorney-general said 'there is no evidence to implicate the arguidos'.

Why do you persist with the not enough evidence claim when that is not what was said.
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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:17 am

Dodge, the handler knows his dog.


The dog got excited round the McCanns hire car.



Obviously detecting scent.



This scent was clearly being carried away from car in a draft.



The dog was clearly following this draft away from car and then losing trail as scent became more and more diluted in the air.



The bisto kid is quite relevant as a description here.



The handler and dog had been working together for 8 years.



I'm sure they both knew what they were doing.



8 years together, dog highly trained both here in UK and in USA with FBI, handler having 35 years experience, and dog having over 200 operational cases with a 100% success record......




Who are you to start telling them that they were not doing things right????


And given that they had 10 cars in the line up and had no idea which car belonged to who.... again, who are you to start telling anyone that they were not being completely professional, impartial and unbiased in their investigation????



Who are you to start shouting the odds about how an expert sniffer dog and handler should be conducting their work...????



And who are you to start telling anyone that they are wrong in their findings and The handler with 35 years experience and 8 years with this particular dog somehow doesn't know what he's doing and unable to understand what his dog is telling him...????



Maybe you could tell us about all your expert knowledge And experience with sniffer dogs and how they operate in real life environments that qualifies you to be in a position of authority over what is the right or correct way to conduct dog search investigations????




What was that dodge....????


Can't quite hear you.......???


How long did you say you have been working with and training sniffer dogs.....?????






And spindle, was there any evidence against the McCanns???


Yes.


Was there enough evidence to charge and successfully prosecute the McCanns???


No.



So does that mean there was no evidence???


Or does that mean there was not enough evidence???
















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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:37 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Dodge, the handler knows his dog.
he can read his mind now, really, I do not think so

The dog got excited round the McCanns hire car.
Wrong, it moved very quickly away 4 times, at no point did itg et excited until the 5th time, thus that is a blatant lie

Obviously detecting scent.
It barks when it detects a scent, that is obvious from the video, it fails to bark four times and has to be coached to come back four time

This scent was clearly being carried away from car in a draft.
 ://?roflmao?/: So much so the dog moved away from the car in different directions, you do make up up bullshit

The dog was clearly following this draft away from car and then losing trail as scent became more and more diluted in the air.
Balderdash, if the scent is strongest at the car which it clearly was for both Keela and Eddie to alert to the same place, we are not even talking about death scent anyway but blood, which both are trained to do, Keela is not trained in death scent and the forensic evidence points to body fluids, not death scents, so on all scenarios, nothing backs your view point

The bisto kid is quite relevant as a description here.
It is bollocks here, because as seen both dogs alert to the exact same thing

The handler and dog had been working together for 8 years.
Yes and clearly I am bring into question how well trained this dog is, the dog also failed to alert the boot which Keela did, even after 4 times being called back to the car, that begs again a question to why the dog failed to alert again  

I'm sure they both knew what they were doing.
Well as we know which you have now side tracked from answering, the dog is trained to alert/bark when there is a death scent and failed to do so multiple times in the apartment and has not been answered.
If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'
On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'

8 years together, dog highly trained both here in UK and in USA with FBI, handler having 35 years experience, and dog having over 200 operational cases with a 100% success record......
No proof for any such claim except from the handler himself, no corroborating evidence to back such a claim, and as seen the dog also alerted to a coconut and animal bones, that is not a success, in a missing girl case

Who are you to start telling them that they were not doing things right????
Well the authorities questioned it just as I am doing and as seen Grimes could not provide an answer, at least he has some experience, where you have zero, which makes your answers even more comical

And given that they had 10 cars in the line up and had no idea which car belonged to who.... again, who are you to start telling anyone that they were not being completely professional, impartial and unbiased in their investigation????
Again 10 cars, and Eddie ignores them all, has to be called back both verbally shouted at and the handler bangs on the areas where to look an yet as seen fails to alert the boot, which Keela did

Who are you to start shouting the odds about how an expert sniffer dog and handler should be conducting their work...????
Yes, because it is not a full proof science, as seen, these dogs are means for obtaining proof but they cannot be used as proof. They must be taken as instruments. Any vestige, even invisible to the eye, recovered with the use of these dogs, has to be subjected to forensic exam on a credited laboratory.

And who are you to start telling anyone that they are wrong in their findings and The handler with 35 years experience and 8 years with this particular dog somehow doesn't know what he's doing and unable to understand what his dog is telling him...????
Well as seen you are now just repeating the same above so I will do the same, the dog failed to alert multiple times to items it later alerts to, this is a major problem, when the owner claims the dog has been trained to alert when it scents death, body fluids and blood, also has to be recalled to the car many times, which as seen the authorities also question, which never receives an answer from Grimes.
From the screening of the videos, referred previously, done when the dogs were working, some doubts arise.
If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'
On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'  

Maybe you could tell us about all your expert knowledge And experience with sniffer dogs and how they operate in real life environments that qualifies you to be in a position of authority over what is the right or correct way to conduct dog search investigations????
I am going by what the expert knowledge points out is flawed from the search carried out by Eddie, as seen no explanation was provided by Grimes.

- On the hypothesis that there was death of the child, the results performed by the British Laboratory must be awaited, in order to assert what kind of vestiges were collected and if any of those can lead to the identification of Madeleine McCann's DNA profile.

This as seen does not prove Maddie is dead, and in fact the authorities still take Maddie as a missing person, not dead

- To obtain, from the trainers and supervisors of the dogs (ERVD and CSI), further enlightenings about the 'marking' and the friability of their work.


What was that dodge....????
Can't quite hear you.......???
How long did you say you have been working with and training sniffer dogs.....?????
And spindle, was there any evidence against the McCanns???
Yes.
Was there enough evidence to charge and successfully prosecute the McCanns???
There was no evidence

No.
So does that mean there was no evidence???
There was no evidence

Or does that mean there was not enough evidence???
No as seen there was no evidence, no indication Maddi had been killed in the apartment, there is a possibility of a death scent from the apartment, but no forensics backs this up and cross contamination cannot be ruled out and definitely no death scents from the car


You just repeated yourself again, making up complete bullshit not explaining the flaws and faults

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Spindleshanks on Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:42 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Dodge, the handler knows his dog.


The dog got excited round the McCanns hire car.



Obviously detecting scent.



This scent was clearly being carried away from car in a draft.



The dog was clearly following this draft away from car and then losing trail as scent became more and more diluted in the air.



The bisto kid is quite relevant as a description here.



The handler and dog had been working together for 8 years.



I'm sure they both knew what they were doing.



8 years together, dog highly trained both here in UK and in USA with FBI, handler having 35 years experience, and dog having over 200 operational cases with a 100% success record......




Who are you to start telling them that they were not doing things right????


And given that they had 10 cars in the line up and had no idea which car belonged to who.... again, who are you to start telling anyone that they were not being completely professional, impartial and unbiased in their investigation????



Who are you to start shouting the odds about how an expert sniffer dog and handler should be conducting their work...????



And who are you to start telling anyone that they are wrong in their findings and The handler with 35 years experience and 8 years with this particular dog somehow doesn't know what he's doing and unable to understand what his dog is telling him...????



Maybe you could tell us about all your expert knowledge And experience with sniffer dogs and how they operate in real life environments that qualifies you to be in a position of authority over what is the right or correct way to conduct dog search investigations????




What was that dodge....????


Can't quite hear you.......???


How long did you say you have been working with and training sniffer dogs.....?????






And spindle, was there any evidence against the McCanns???


Yes.


Was there enough evidence to charge and successfully prosecute the McCanns???


No.



So does that mean there was no evidence???


Or does that mean there was not enough evidence???
















No Tommy, there was no evidence.

There was no evidence the child died in that apartment and no evidence the parents had anything to do with her disappearance.
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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by nicko on Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:31 am

This is off subject a bit but it is revelent.We had dogs in Vietnam who could sniff out booby traps and smell out Charlie half a mile away. They were 99% correct in their findings,but as for the other 1%~~~~~
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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:47 pm

Dodge ranting again and repeating the same old bullshit.



Already explained numerous times that the dog was trained to try to locate origin of scent when detected. Not bark at first sign of scent.



The dog moved away from the car in the same direction showing that the scent must have been drifting away from the car in that direction.



The dog DID become noticeably excited when sound McCanns car, DID have a change in body language which told The handler that The dog was onto something on that car.


The handler knows what he's doing And recognises the signals the dog is giving so sticks by the car.


Eddie was the primarily the death dog and keela was the blood.


Eddie indicated the car out of 10 and then keela went into the car to find more.




What experience did you say you had that makes you such an expert on how a dog and handler are supposed to work????



And spindle, there was evidence. And The police, both PJ and British were working under the belief that The girl died in apartment and parents were involved in disposing the body.



However there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever TO support the abduction story.




I believe the dog.

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Dodge, the handler knows his dog.
he can read his mind now, really, I do not think so

The dog got excited round the McCanns hire car.
Wrong, it moved very quickly away 4 times, at no point did itg et excited until the 5th time, thus that is a blatant lie

Obviously detecting scent.
It barks when it detects a scent, that is obvious from the video, it fails to bark four times and has to be coached to come back four time

This scent was clearly being carried away from car in a draft.
 ://?roflmao?/: So much so the dog moved away from the car in different directions, you do make up up bullshit

The dog was clearly following this draft away from car and then losing trail as scent became more and more diluted in the air.
Balderdash, if the scent is strongest at the car which it clearly was for both Keela and Eddie to alert to the same place, we are not even talking about death scent anyway but blood, which both are trained to do, Keela is not trained in death scent and the forensic evidence points to body fluids, not death scents, so on all scenarios, nothing backs your view point

The bisto kid is quite relevant as a description here.
It is bollocks here, because as seen both dogs alert to the exact same thing

The handler and dog had been working together for 8 years.
Yes and clearly I am bring into question how well trained this dog is, the dog also failed to alert the boot which Keela did, even after 4 times being called back to the car, that begs again a question to why the dog failed to alert again  

I'm sure they both knew what they were doing.
Well as we know which you have now side tracked from answering, the dog is trained to alert/bark when there is a death scent and failed to do so multiple times in the apartment and has not been answered.
If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'
On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'

8 years together, dog highly trained both here in UK and in USA with FBI, handler having 35 years experience, and dog having over 200 operational cases with a 100% success record......
No proof for any such claim except from the handler himself, no corroborating evidence to back such a claim, and as seen the dog also alerted to a coconut and animal bones, that is not a success, in a missing girl case

Who are you to start telling them that they were not doing things right????
Well the authorities questioned it just as I am doing and as seen Grimes could not provide an answer, at least he has some experience, where you have zero, which makes your answers even more comical

And given that they had 10 cars in the line up and had no idea which car belonged to who.... again, who are you to start telling anyone that they were not being completely professional, impartial and unbiased in their investigation????
Again 10 cars, and Eddie ignores them all, has to be called back both verbally shouted at and the handler bangs on the areas where to look an yet as seen fails to alert the boot, which Keela did

Who are you to start shouting the odds about how an expert sniffer dog and handler should be conducting their work...????
Yes, because it is not a full proof science, as seen, these dogs are means for obtaining proof but they cannot be used as proof. They must be taken as instruments. Any vestige, even invisible to the eye, recovered with the use of these dogs, has to be subjected to forensic exam on a credited laboratory.

And who are you to start telling anyone that they are wrong in their findings and The handler with 35 years experience and 8 years with this particular dog somehow doesn't know what he's doing and unable to understand what his dog is telling him...????
Well as seen you are now just repeating the same above so I will do the same, the dog failed to alert multiple times to items it later alerts to, this is a major problem, when the owner claims the dog has been trained to alert when it scents death, body fluids and blood, also has to be recalled to the car many times, which as seen the authorities also question, which never receives an answer from Grimes.
From the screening of the videos, referred previously, done when the dogs were working, some doubts arise.
If the dog is trained to react when he detects what he is looking for, why, in most of the cases, we see the dog passing more than once by that place in an uninterested way, until he finally signals the place where he had already passed several times'
On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'  

Maybe you could tell us about all your expert knowledge And experience with sniffer dogs and how they operate in real life environments that qualifies you to be in a position of authority over what is the right or correct way to conduct dog search investigations????
I am going by what the expert knowledge points out is flawed from the search carried out by Eddie, as seen no explanation was provided by Grimes.

- On the hypothesis that there was death of the child, the results performed by the British Laboratory must be awaited, in order to assert what kind of vestiges were collected and if any of those can lead to the identification of Madeleine McCann's DNA profile.

This as seen does not prove Maddie is dead, and in fact the authorities still take Maddie as a missing person, not dead

- To obtain, from the trainers and supervisors of the dogs (ERVD and CSI), further enlightenings about the 'marking' and the friability of their work.


What was that dodge....????
Can't quite hear you.......???
How long did you say you have been working with and training sniffer dogs.....?????
And spindle, was there any evidence against the McCanns???
Yes.
Was there enough evidence to charge and successfully prosecute the McCanns???
There was no evidence

No.
So does that mean there was no evidence???
There was no evidence

Or does that mean there was not enough evidence???
No as seen there was no evidence, no indication Maddi had been killed in the apartment, there is a possibility of a death scent from the apartment, but no forensics backs this up and cross contamination cannot be ruled out and definitely no death scents from the car


You re just repeated yourself again, making up complete bullshit not explaining the flaws and faults

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Spindleshanks on Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:20 pm

The police have to look at every possible angle Tommy, they wouldn't be doing their jobs right if they didn't but they like everyone else have no idea what happened to the child.

The attorney-general said there was no evidence to implicate the arguidos, I believe the attorney-general.
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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:28 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Dodge ranting again and repeating the same old bullshit.

Already explained numerous times that the dog was trained to try to locate origin of scent when detected. Not bark at first sign of scent.
The dog moved away from the car in the same direction showing that the scent must have been drifting away from the car in that direction.
The dog DID become noticeably excited when sound McCanns car, DID have a change in body language which told The handler that The dog was onto something on that car.
The handler knows what he's doing And recognises the signals the dog is giving so sticks by the car.

Eddie was the primarily the death dog and keela was the blood.
Eddie indicated the car out of 10 and then keela went into the car to find more.
What experience did you say you had that makes you such an expert on how a dog and handler are supposed to work????
And spindle, there was evidence. And The police, both PJ and British were working under the belief that The girl died in apartment and parents were involved in disposing the body.
However there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever TO support the abduction story.
I believe the dog.
So we have the death dog indicating in the McCanns apartment, and only in their apartment, on their hire car that wasn't rented until 24 days after girl vanished and only on their car, on the McCanns clothes, and The cuddle cat toy......
All mistakes and coincidence though according to detective Didge of dodge county..... the authority on sniffer dogs.....
lol!

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:22 pm

So again Tommy is not able to refute Spindleshanks and my points.

Guess this is thread over unless someone has something new to add

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:40 pm

This thread was over ages ago when you kept ignoring the facts and just kept posting bullshit.



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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:47 pm

As seen you have no evidence, the authorities state this, yet you seem to think you know more, how odd

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:55 pm

There is enough evidence to know what most likely happened.


A fact you can't accept.

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:56 pm

No there is just the ramblings of a conspiracy nut!

As seen your dog theory has also been quashed, which was obvious when the fact is they still place her as missing and not dead.

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:00 pm

Dog theory???


lol!


Expert sniffer dogs investigations and their findings is not a theory dodge!!!!



What a twat!!!




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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:02 pm

Yes dog theory

So answer me this has Maddie been declared dead?

Yes or no

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Spindleshanks on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:04 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Dog theory???


lol!


Expert sniffer dogs investigations and their findings is not a theory dodge!!!!



What a twat!!!




The proof she died in that apartment is where Tommy?

On the say so of a dog with no corroborating evidence to determine if the dog was correct or not?

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:12 pm

Girl vanishes in suspicious circumstances, parents story is full of holes, expert stiffer dog detects death in the apartment, The hire car, on McCanns clothes and The cat toy.......




Whoosh ... clunk...... the penny has dropped......!!!





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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:14 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Girl vanishes in suspicious circumstances, parents story is full of holes, expert stiffer dog detects death in the apartment, The hire car, on McCanns clothes and The cat toy.......




Whoosh ... clunk...... the penny has dropped......!!!





That did not answer the question.

Has Maddie been declared dead, yes or no?

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Spindleshanks on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:17 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Girl vanishes in suspicious circumstances, parents story is full of holes, expert stiffer dog detects death in the apartment, The hire car, on McCanns clothes and The cat toy.......




Whoosh ... clunk...... the penny has dropped......!!!





Only, there was no confirmed DNA belonging to the child in the car.
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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:20 pm

The DNA was not confirmed to not be the girls either.



And dodge, do You think they are out there digging expecting to find a Girl alive or dead....???




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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:20 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The DNA was not confirmed to not be the girls either.



And dodge, do You think they are out there digging expecting to find a Girl alive or dead....???




Still no answer

So again:

Has Maddie been declared dead, yes or no?


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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:26 pm





Do You think they are out there digging expecting to find a Girl alive or dead....???

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:28 pm

Failed to answer again
Have the authorities declared her dead?

Yes or No?

Answer the question

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:31 pm





Do You think they are out there digging expecting to find a Girl alive or dead....???



Answer the question!

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:33 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:



Do You think they are out there digging expecting to find a Girl alive or dead....???



Answer the question!

The Police are searching based off new evidence of an abduction theory of which nothing confirms their findings.

So again

Have the authorities declared her dead?

Yes or No?

Answer the question

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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Spindleshanks on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:37 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The DNA was not confirmed to not be the girls either.



And dodge, do You think they are out there digging expecting to find a Girl alive or dead....???




I know it wasn't confirmed to be the girls, I just said that.
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Re: Madeleine McCann: Police tents erected in Paria de Luz

Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:38 pm

All very interesting and all that, but you didn't answer the question.....
Are the police digging out there expecting to find a girl dead or alive?

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