"The only winning move is not to play"

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"The only winning move is not to play" Empty "The only winning move is not to play"

Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:27 pm

(That's the lesson from the awesome 80s computer-scare movie "Wargames," by the way.)

So I've been thinking a lot about stuff like this:

"The only winning move is not to play" 51tqnuS6atL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_

and this:

"The only winning move is not to play" How-to-win-the-culture-war

and a lot of related books, TV shows and radio programs. Is there a culture war on in the United States? Some people think there is, so logically speaking that actually does mean that there is.

While I'd maintain that conservatives started the culture war, both sides are now fighting it. You don't have to look hard to see invective from both sides.

This is not the way to win, particularly for the left. The conservative brain is, according to research, more wired to think in these terms. Obama called it "tribalism," which is a good term in that it describes the mindset -- us vs. them.

It's easy to see the other side as the enemy, especially when it presents itself as your enemy. But this is destructive! There is no logical reason for conservatives to oppose, for one example, gay marriage. It doesn't affect heterosexual conservatives in any conceivable way. Yet they fight it with all their might -- why? Because in the culture war, if one side accomplishes a goal, it must be seen as a setback for the other side. Or to put it another way, if politics is erroneously viewed as a competitive sport like soccer, every time the other team achieves a goal, it's bad news for you.

Liberals in particular should not be fighting the opposite team. Instead, they should be fighting the very notion of a culture war. I would ask liberals -- what among your goals would actually hurt conservatives? I for one don't wish to harm or change the lifestyle of any conservative. My endorsement of gay marriage doesn't mean I want to force conservative Christians to be gay, after all. My endorsement of environmental protection doesn't mean I want to bring capitalism to a grinding halt. My endorsement of a reliable social safety net doesn't mean I want to punish rich people.

I would encourage everyone, particularly in the U.S. where this war is not always a cold war, to declare him or herself a conscientious objector in the culture war; the only winning move is not to play.

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Post by Lurker on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:55 pm

Groups with absolutely no culture (other that hate) or character think that there is a culture war in America. Consider the source. LOL

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Post by veya_victaous on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:23 am

I actually disagree,
I think liberals need to fight more, denying reality is never a good move. Just because you don't want it to be so doesn't mean there isn't people out there that don't like you and would happily kill or oppress you to keep their invisible friend happy. Trusting in Humanity from groups that over centuries has displayed incrediable brutality toward people that upset their invisible friend is not wise.
Plus how much is pushed by the groups that currently have all the wealth and are just trying to keep themselves in luxury and can successfully do it under religitards (proven but the centuries they have in the past)

One must always stand for what is right and by right I mean true. proveable testable truth.

But... maybe i'm in a slightly different camp....because
I do want to Force Christians to change their lifestyle (and not follow fairytales like they are real)
I do want to radically change capitism (it is an unfair and injust system, humanity can do better)
And I am willing to Punish rich people (it's not personal but 'the suffarance of a few for the good of the many' has always been a core aspect of good leadership.)

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:33 am

Denying reality isn't what I'm talking about, Veya, it's more like shifting the entire paradigm.

Like I said, my agenda poses no threat to theirs, but they've been brainwashed into thinking it is, and that liberals are their enemy. Every time we achieve something, that's bad news for them under that paradigm.

What I encourage liberals to do is to show conservatives that their agenda really isn't threatening and start talking about society more as an ecosystem. In a forest, tall trees fan out to gather sunlight, but enough filters through to allow different (smaller) plants to thrive as well. In the same way, a traditional conservative family with the white picket fence and the 2.5 children should be able to live peacefully and prosperously in the same town as a lesbian married couple that smokes pot and has solar panels on their house. They don't have to be friends or agree upon anything for this to work.

It's about saying you can pursue your vision of happiness and I can pursue mine without the two visions conflicting as long as we don't try to make everyone the same. If conservatives are really about individual freedoms and against "collectivism," that is.

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Post by veya_victaous on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:37 am

but your saying everyone should accept people that are different i.e you should be liberal minded. (I agree)
the problem is Conservatives/fundamentalists are by definition the opposite of that.

I am suggesting that Liberals need to be mindful of the fact that there are people that disagree with us and will never agree with us regardless of how many facts and logical argumnets they are presented with. Yet being Liberals we accept them being different so we never really advance.

really it is not Just US conservatives that oppose us it is Most fundmentalists from Muslims to NeoNazis do not beleive we are right, Many Cultures do not believe in equal rights. there is oppostion to the idea that we should all live and let live, many do say so and so should die/suffer for something or other that doesn't directly affect me. Internationally there is a culture war, maybe Americans dont realise how much of your culture you force on other nations but there is atleast 3 clear sides,
Fundamentalist Capitialists Christian
Fundamentalist Theocratic Mulsims
Liberal-minded multicultured

Oddly Asians, Indians and Australians can be found in all 3 groups. Muslims can be in either there own group or the Liberal minded same with Christians.
USA represents the Biggest player on the Fundementalist Christian side but still is highly represented amoungst the Liberal-minded.

I think Conflict is the natural state of Human existance, we are just seeing a social evolution away from Invisible sky giants towards Science and Technology for our explaination of reality, I firmly believe that Science will be proven correct. But until then the institutions that have their power base in invisible sky giants will fight very hard to maintian their preogratives even when science has won I believe we will still find things to create conflict..... Until Aliens!??!.... but even then some of us will want to be friendly and some will want to attack them because they will fear they are a threat.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:01 am

Well, you make some good points. I still think showing that the liberal "agenda" isn't out to get anyone is a good idea. It won't convert the hardcore fundies, but it might stifle their recruitment efforts Smile

I do think the global civilization is in the midst of a defining philosophical crisis, and I do think reason will eventually win out. But damn, I'm getting impatient -- it's been something like 150 years since "On the Origin of Species" was published!

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:33 am

I just have to say one more thing about this. In America, the culture war has intensified to the point that even Democrats (America's mainstream version of left-wingers) find themselves unable to support anything put forth by Republicans. 

That's a symptom of a broken system. I for one will say, I agree with Rand Paul, a Republican, when he's the only Senator to introduce legislation that would put a stop to government spying.

When the culture war prevents good ideas from ruling the day, and instead makes everyone a loyal supporter of their "team" whether it's right or wrong, I think that's a problem. I may only agree with Rand Paul on one thing (actually two -- I also agree with him on drones), but people should feel free to do just that -- to say, "I think in general you're crazy, but you got this one thing right and I'll support you on it."

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Post by veya_victaous on Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:28 am

I agree, we are moving that way in Australia.
Bunch of rednecks crying how bad it is now even though our econimic standing has improved, They Insist that their issues are caused by Refugees or Muslims or Anything the current gov't does despite the fact that they still have jobs, they still get paid the highest minimum wage in the world and the only reason they cant get better is because they spent the better part of High School stoned off their tits.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:33 am

Yeah, I saw the youtuber Natalie Tran talking about all the immigrant talk in Australia and openly wondering whether she was welcome ...

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