Islamoprejudice & Anti-Semitism:

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Post by Guest on Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:15 pm

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ANTI-SEMITIC PROPAGANDA

Anti-Semitic propaganda maintained that:


—all Jews were responsible for the act of any Jew, e.g. “The murder of Ernst vom Rath did not slow legal measures aimed at solving the Jewish Problem, but rather sped them up. The Jews living in Germany had to pay a fine of a billion marks to discourage them from repeating the cowardly murder.” **

— Judaism was not a religion. “Argument 1: “You say that religion is a private matter. But you fight against the Jewish religion!” Counterargument: “Actually, the Jewish religion is nothing other than a doctrine to preserve the Jewish race.” (Adolf Hitler). “In resisting all government attempts to nationalize them, the Jews build a state within the state (Count Helmuth von Moltke). “To call this state a ‘religion’ was one of the cleverest tricks ever invented.” (Adolf Hitler). “From this first lie that Jewry is a religion, not a race, further lies inevitably follow.” (Adolf Hitler).”  **

— there was an International Jewish conspiracy to influence and then control governments, media,  the economy, etc.  **

— the Jews hated all non-Jews and they wanted to destroy the Gentiles and dominate the world **  Further “Whether or not there is an organized Jewish government recognized by all the Jews is less important that the fact that there is a unified and conscious Jewish desire for world power. This is proved by a variety of political events that are taking place in plain sight today.”  **

— due to inbreeding, Jews had more negative characteristics and passed on these negative characteristics to the next generation.  **

— a war against Judaism was a war against the devil **

— by distortions of the Torah and Talmud they claimed that Judaism teaches hatred **

— “The goal of the Jew is to make himself the ruler of humanity. Wherever he comes, he destroys works of culture. He is not a creative spirit, rather a destructive spirit.”  **  “The struggle for world domination will be fought entirely between us, between Germans and Jews.  All else is facade and illusion. Behind England stands Israel, and behind France, and behind the United States.  Even when we have driven the Jew out of Germany, he remains our world enemy.”  Adolf Hitler **

— “Nearly all major inventions were made by Aryans.”  The Jews had no real creativity **   “Wherever Jewry has appeared, it has never built anything. It has always and everywhere destroyed or torn down, sucking others dry to fill itself. From the days of the Romans to our day, Jewry in every century, in every people, was and remained a foreign body, a destroyer of real and ideal values, a denier of any upward progress, a plague for body and soul. It sneaks in through deceit and treachery, trickery and slyness, murder and assault, understanding how to establish itself.”  **

— a good Jew could not be a good German, that it was impossible for a Jew to honestly say “I am a “good German” and a “decent Jew”! Only a Jew has the insolence to make such a claim. I answer it only to reach the public and finally dispatch the absurd notion of the “decent Jew.” The fable of the “decent Jew” is not a German fable that has been handed down by our people and therefore something with educational value, but rather it is a shameless lie designed to lull the host people to sleep and appeal to hysterical weaklings.”  **  And further “And you think you can be a “good German”! True, you do speak German, just as your racial comrades in other countries speak English, French, Spanish, and Polish, but you are no more a German than they are Englishmen, Frenchmen, Spaniards, or Poles, since Jews are a foreign body in every people.” **

—  “Jewish law enjoins or permits Jews to murder non-Jews whenever feasible” **

—  “Jews are permitted to lie without moral or religious compunction” **

—  “Judaism condones the sexual molestation of young girls” ** “The Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end….spying on the unsuspicious German girl he plans to seduce….he wants to contaminate her blood and remove her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew hates the white race and wants to lower its cultural level so that the Jews might dominate.” - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf **

—  there was no way to tell the true nature of Jews as they presented a false face. **

—  Jews were uniquely violent and untrustworthy compared to all the other peoples of the world. **

— Jews could not serve loyally in the military of Germany, and they were removed. **

— anti-Semitism was a reasonable response to a clear and present danger.  **  If Jews raised the issue of anti-Semitism they were doing it for devious reasons.  The Jewish people, once only tolerated, knew how to raise a hue and cry about discrimination and persecution, winning the sympathy of the world for the “poor Jews.” They increasingly infiltrated deep within our national organism, growing to have power over every single area of our national life. **

— there was a “Jewish problem” and that any measures taken against the Jews were reasonable and defensive.  **

— Jews are a “disease” infecting any nation they inhabit.  “For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Jewish spirit can ever really be eradicated.  Don’t be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus.  Don’t think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis.  This Jewish contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst.”  Adolph Hitler **  “Each Jew individually, and Jewry as a whole, is without a home. Jewry undermines every people and every state that it infiltrates. It feeds as a parasite and a culture-killing worm in the host people. It grows and grows like weeds in the state, the community, and the family and infests the blood of humanity everywhere.  In brief, that is the pestilential nature of Jewry, against which every people, every state, every nation must, should, and wants to defend itself if it does not want to be the victim of this bloody plague.”  **







ANTI-Muslim/ISLAMOPHOBIC PROPAGANDA


“Islam constitutes a threat to the world at large.”  Robert Spencer, AFDI, SIOA, SION

When Shi’ite Muslims were persecuted by Sunnis, they developed the doctrine of taqiyya, or concealment: They could lie about what they believed, denying aspects of their faith that were offensive to Sunnis…Closely related to this is the doctrine of kitman, or mental reservation, which is telling the truth, but not the whole truth, with an intention to mislead…Remember that the next time you see a Muslim spokesman on television professing his friendship with non-Muslim Americans and his loyalty to the United States. Of course, he may be telling the truth–but he may not be telling the whole truth or he may be just lying.  Robert Spencer, AFDI, SIOA, SION

There are “many elements of traditional and mainstream Islam that are at variance with our system of government, our Constitution, and our entire way of life.”  Robert Spencer, AFDI, SIOA, SION

“There is no reliable way to distinguish a “moderate” Muslim who rejects the jihad ideology and Islamic supremacism from a “radical” Muslim who holds such ideas, even if he isn’t acting upon them at the moment.”  Robert Spencer, AFDI, SIOA, SION

“The misbegotten term “Islamo-fascism” is wholly redundant: Islam itself is a kind of fascism that achieves its full and proper form only when it assumes the powers of the state.” Robert Spencer,AFDI, SIOA, SION  

“There is no distinction in the American Muslim community between peaceful Muslims and jihadists.” Robert Spencer, AFDI, SIOA, SION

“(Islam) is the only major world religion with a developed doctrine and tradition of warfare against unbelievers.”  Robert Spencer, AFDI, SIOA, SION

“Islam is of the devil” Rev. Terry Jones

“Islam is evil” Rev. Franklin Graham

“There is no escaping the unfortunate fact that Muslim government employees in law enforcement, the military and the diplomatic corps need to be watched for connections to terrorism.”  Rev. Franklin Graham

“Nearly all (emphasis added) of the Islamic organizations in the United States that define themselves as religiously or culturally Muslim in character have, today, been totally captured or dominated by radical fundamentalist elements…”  Steven Emerson

“U.S. Muslims are strategically aligning with LGBT people as part of their jihadist campaign to subjugate the West.”  Joseph Farrah, WND

”Devout Muslims should be prohibited from military service. Would Patton have recruited Nazis into his army?”  Pamela Geller, AFDI, SIOA, SION

Good Muslims lie to advance Islam, It’s the law. Atlas readers often hear me refer to taqiya - lies to advance Islam.” Pamela Geller, AFDI, SIOA, SION

I believe that “Al-Qaeda is a manifestation of devout Islam ... It is Islam.”  Pamela Geller, AFDI, SIOA, SION

“Arabic is not just another language like French or Italian, it is the spearhead of an ideological project that is deeply opposed to the United States.”  Pamela Geller, AFDI, SIOA, SION

I believe that “Hitler WAS inspired by Islam”  Pamela Geller, AFDI,SIOA, SION

“The ability to enjoy and produce knowledge and abstract thinking is simply lower in the Islamic world.”  Nicolai Sennels

One significant conclusion of my research was that having been raised in a Muslim environment – with Muslim parents and traditions – includes the risk of developing certain antisocial patterns.  Nicolai Sennels

As in many other nauseating situations, Islamonausea is a normal and natural reaction to something abnormal, not vice versa.  The nausea reflex is innate, and it is biologically natural and healthy to experience emotional and bodily discomfort with anything that is unpleasant, unhealthy or harmful.  ... The word Islamonausea can be used to describe a feeling of nausea, disgust, displeasure, discomfort or aversion that arises by itself when encountering Islam or Islamic culture, or whatever or whoever represents it. Nicolai Sennels

“Racism is the lowest form of human stupidity, but Islamophobia is the height of common sense.”  [SIOE motto]

“I would like to feel all warm and fuzzy and embrace the moderate Muslim/ meme but they show no evidence of their existence - not in any real number anyway. The only voices of reason in the Muslim world are lapsed Muslims or apostates.  Pamela Geller, AFDI, SIOA, SION

“It’s the Muslims who are dragging the rest of the world with them, in their genocidal dreams of annihilating goodness, creativity, production, inventiveness, benevolence, charity, medicine, technology, and all of the gifts of the Jews.  Our goodness makes them ill.”  Pamela Geller, AFDI, SIOA, SION

I believe that “Islam is a mental illness”.  Pamela Geller, AFDI, SIOA, SION

“The artifacts featured in this exhibit are stolen. Period. Stolen from the cultures conquered and Islamized, and the lands appropriated by the Muslims. The Met is passing off this stolen intellectual property as Islamic. It isn’t.”  Pamela Geller, AFDI, SIOA, SION

I believe that Islam is “the most insidious doctrine of hate. Islam can’t be reformed, but it can be eradicated. It can’t be molded, but it can be smashed.”  Ali Sina, SION

“We do not want to reform Islam. We want to eradicate it. Just as cancer cannot be reformed and the only way to cure the patient is to eradicate it, Islam cant be reformed either and it must be eradicated for the world to be saved.”  Ali Sina, FMU, SION

I believe that “Islam, like fascism, appeals to people with low self esteem and low intelligence.  Ali Sina, FMU, SION

I believe that “Every “moderate” Muslim is a potential terrorist.” Ali Sina, FMU, SION

I believe that “On the so-called Global War on Terrorism, GWOT, we have been quite clear along with a few other resolute souls. This should be a WAR AGAINST Islam and all Muslim faithful…At a practical level, this means that Shari’a and Islamic law are immediately outlawed. Any Muslim in America who adopts historical and traditional Shari’a will be subject to deportation. Mosques which adhere to Islamic law will be shut down permanently. No self-described or practicing Muslim, irrespective of his or her declarations to the contrary, will be allowed to immigrate to this country…” David Yerushalmi, SANE

I believe that “Muslim civilization is at war with Judeo-Christian civilization…The Muslim peoples, those committed to Islam as we know it today, are our enemies.”  David Yerushalmi, SANE

“We love you Muslims because you are humans like us. We are all related to each other. We are all limbs of the body of mankind. But you are diseased. You are infected by a deadly cult that threatens our lives. Your humanity is destroyed. Like a limb infected by flesh eating disease, now you are a threat to the rest of mankind. We will do everything to save you, to make you see your folly, and to make you understand that you are victims of a gigantic lie, so you leave this lie, stop hating mankind and plotting for its destruction and it domination. But if all efforts fail and if you become a threat to our lives and the lives of our children, we must amputate you.”  Ali Sina, FMU, SION

There is a need for an “old fashioned war with wholesale slaughter including indiscriminate death of innocents and babes. down to the last Muslim, if necessary.”  John Joseph Jay, AFDI

The only good Muslim is a dead Muslim.  ...  The Islamofeces cockroaches are on the march and if we do not kill them all, they shall kill us.  George M. Weinert V

“I’ve got an idea, let’s kill all Muslims.”  Jay Severin

“Rot in hell, Osama bin Laden.  One down, 1.8 billion to go ... many of ‘em inside U.S. borders, with the U.S. government at all levels kissing their asses.”  Debbie Schlussel

“I do not believe that our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed.”  Rev. Rod Parsley

“Absolutely. If a Muslim who has—who is—a practicing Muslim who believes the word of the Koran to be the word of Allah, who abides by Islam, who goes to mosque and prays every Friday, who prays five times a day—this practicing Muslim, who believes in the teachings of the Koran, cannot be a loyal citizen to the United States of America.”  Brigitte Gabrie, ACT for Americal

Westerners “don’t want to judge anybody based on their [religion].  [But] Islam is not a religion. Islam is a very dangerous political ideology…. There is no such thing as radical Islam and regular Islam or spiritual Islam….There is only one Islam.”  Wafa Sultan, FMU

“What has the Arab world contributed except terror? The theocratic, repressive Arabic states do no significant science, no significant arts and culture.”  “Osama bin Laden is a very good Muslim - a model one, in fact, and one of the most devout in the 1400 years of Islam.”  David Horowitz, Freedom Center

“Sure America’s First Amendment protects freedom of religion. But the Founding Fathers and signatories of the Constitution undoubtedly would not have included rights in it for members of a religion that demands the destruction, persecution and invasion of the United States of America -and at best, the establishment of a shadow Constitution parallel to the American one, namely Islamic sharia law. No, that most certainly was not in the minds of America’s Founding Fathers.”  Eliana Benador

“America and the West are doomed to failure in this war unless they stand up and identify the real enemy: Islam.”  Brigitte Gabriel, ACT for America

“We are in a war against a political, theocratic, authoritarian ideology and it is called Islam!”  Rep. Allen West, (R-FL)

“The Muslim Representative from Minnesota was elected by the voters of that district and if American citizens don’t wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran.”  Rep. Virgil H. Goode, Jr

“There are too many mosques in this country.”  -  “85 percent of American Muslim community leaders are an enemy living amongst us”  -  “no (American) Muslims cooperate in the war on terror”.  -  “I would say, you could say that 80-85 percent of mosques in this country are controlled by Islamic fundamentalists … Those who are in control.  The average Muslim, no, they are loyal, but they don’t work, they don’t come forward, they don’t tell the police.”  Rep. Peter King

“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.”  Ann Coulter

Taught military personnel that they should take a “war on Islam” “to the civilian population wherever necessary,” which he likened to the bombardment of Dresden and nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Army Lt. Col. Matthew A. Dooley

So once one acknowledges the obvious, that there is fascistic behavior among a core of Muslims — specifically, a cult of violence and the wanton use of physical force to impose an ideology on others — the term “Islamo-Fascism” is entirely appropriate.  Dennis Prager

We would be looked upon as uncouth for suggesting that the only language all Muslims understand is that of blood and death and only death can stop them. As long as they survive on this planet, they will be a destabilizing influence and never allow civilized people to breathe freely. There is no hope of transforming the Muslims into a good peace-loving and noble community. As long as a Muslim lives, killing infidels comes to him/her as naturally as does attacking its prey comes to a wild and hungry beast. Muslims are brainwashed to do this by the Quran - the instruction manual of hate and terror. They can never be transformed into good citizens. And so the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim. This is the harsh reality. And so we need to face the seemingly heartless and brutal fact of life that all Muslims need to be given the choice of leaving Islam voluntarily or being put out of harm’s way, i.e. put out of the way from harming anybody else! No other way has the prospect of resolving the Muslim problem across the globe.  War on Jihad site

It’s Time to Put the Coffee Down and Eradicate Islam in the West. This article included the passage “It’s time to join the war, not on “terror” (that oh-so soothing illusion,) but on Islam in the West. Most urgently, we must defend Israel as the frontline in the war against the spread of Islam.”  Jeanette Pryor on David Horowitz’ blog

“ Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene…. All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most.”  Daniel Pipes, MEF

Islam is “a violent political system bent on the overthrow of the governments of the world and world domination.  You’re dealing with not a religion, you’re dealing with a political system, and I think we should treat it as such, and treat its adherents as such as we would members of the communist party, members of some fascist group.”  Rev. Pat Robertson

“Do you really want someone representing you, who swears an oath on a Quran — a book that undermines our Constitution and says you should be killed? I’m Gary Boisclair, and I approve this message.”  Gary Boisclair (D-MI)

“It has been left to us to educate the uneducated of this country to the difference between Sikhism, Hinduism and Islam. Islam is a disease….it is a disease. Winston Churchill once said, ‘Islam in a man is the same as rabies in a dog’.”  Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (aka Tommy Robinson), EDL

“... every single Muslim watching this on YouTube: on 7/7 you got away with killing and maiming British citizens, you got away with it. Next time you think about it you’d better understand that we have built a network from one end of this country to the other end. We will not tolerate it and the Islamic community will feel the full force of the English Defence League if we see any of our citizens killed, maimed or hurt on British soil ever again.”  - Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (aka Tommy Robinson), EDL


Last edited by Didge on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:32 am

I'm not disputing anything

Im simply deconstructing the illogical reasoning and flawed argument that tries to say that the hatred against the Jews of Germany is the same as the hatred for the Muslims of the west

If you want to be the guy who is saying that people not wanting halal for their kids is the same as the Jews being gassed in their millions

Be my guest

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:34 am

Didge wrote:13.    Guilt by Association

Arguing that all members of a group are like some other members of that group, or are responsible for what those others have done.  

Example: Those who attacked the United States on September 11, 2001 were Muslims; therefore, all Muslims are potential terrorist threats to the United States.

Example: Fred Phelps, a Christian minister, argues that “God Hates Fags” and travels to gay funerals, including that of Matthew Shephard, to contend that these gay people are “burning in hell”; since Phelps is a Christian, then Christians are all hateful toward gay people.

http://www.uwec.edu/ranowlan/logical%20fallacies.html

Epic fail again by smelly

Didn't read my post did you??

 cheers 

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:37 am

smelly_bandit wrote:I'm not disputing anything

Im simply deconstructing the illogical reasoning and flawed argument that tries to say that the hatred against the Jews of Germany is the same as the hatred for the Muslims of the west

If you want to be the guy who is saying that people not wanting halal for their kids is the same as the Jews being gassed in their millions

Be my guest


Never said anything in regards to the events that have happened in history, showing again you wasted countless posts not even understanding the view point where your hateful prejudice has the same arguments as used against the Jews.

Again you are trying to justify hating Muslims, not only by fallacy association, which using your simpleton logic would place of all a group for example like Christians as terrorists, because there are Christian terrorist. That is absurd and is the usual reply of someone of hate. Again not only do you justify the extremists view point of hate, you actually fuel their view point of hate and cast all Muslims as a threat, which is what they want to happen so they can get more Muslims to be extremist, a vicious circle only an idiot would add too.

Again thus the evidence is not refuted, you use the similar arguments of prejudice against Muslims, just as the Nazi's did against the Jews.


Says much about you

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:39 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:13.    Guilt by Association

Arguing that all members of a group are like some other members of that group, or are responsible for what those others have done.  

Example: Those who attacked the United States on September 11, 2001 were Muslims; therefore, all Muslims are potential terrorist threats to the United States.

Example: Fred Phelps, a Christian minister, argues that “God Hates Fags” and travels to gay funerals, including that of Matthew Shephard, to contend that these gay people are “burning in hell”; since Phelps is a Christian, then Christians are all hateful toward gay people.

http://www.uwec.edu/ranowlan/logical%20fallacies.html

Epic fail again by smelly

Didn't read my post did you??

 cheers 


Yes I did, it was comical so thanks for that, it shows why you are a simpleton, as you used fallacies


Of course you can show why millions of Muslims do not act for the last 1400 years as you portray?

If you cannot then your association is completely flawed on every level and thus you have even less reason to hate all Muslims.


Opps

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:51 am

I love this part on all KKK are racist, what smelly is so dim to understand is this is how it should read:


All Christians have a belief in Christianity, but with different view points.

All Muslims have a belief in Islam, but with different view points.


All KKK members are Christian, thus by smelly's view point all Christians are KKK as well.


DOH


What a dumbass


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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:02 am

Didge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

Didn't read my post did you??

 cheers 


Yes I did, it was comical so thanks for that, it shows why you are a simpleton, as you used fallacies


Of course you can show why millions of Muslims do not act for the last 1400 years as you portray?

If you cannot then your association is completely flawed on every level and thus you have even less reason to hate all Muslims.


Opps  

so you meant to paraphrase me then??


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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:05 am

Didge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:I'm not disputing anything

Im simply deconstructing the illogical reasoning and flawed argument that tries to say that the hatred against the Jews of Germany is the same as the hatred for the Muslims of the west

If you want to be the guy who is saying that people not wanting halal for their kids is the same as the Jews being gassed in their millions

Be my guest


Never said anything in regards to the events that have happened in history, showing again you wasted countless posts not even understanding the view point where your hateful prejudice has the same arguments as used against the Jews.

Again you are trying to justify hating Muslims, not only by fallacy association, which using your simpleton logic would place of all a group for example like Christians as terrorists, because there are Christian terrorist. That is absurd and is the usual reply of someone of hate. Again not only do you justify the extremists view point of hate, you actually fuel their view point of hate and cast all Muslims as a threat, which is what they want to happen so they can get more Muslims to be extremist, a vicious circle only an idiot would add too.

Again thus the evidence is not refuted, you use the similar arguments of prejudice against Muslims, just as the Nazi's did against the Jews.


Says much about you  

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

can you rephrase that into something that makes sense??

i would love to reply but im not sure what you're actually trying to say poppet

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:34 am

anyway

i was wondering what was meant by

"even though we see many Muslims progress being against even their own religious views"

if Muslims are progressing then what does it say about Islam is progression goes against Islamic religious views??

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:47 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:


Never said anything in regards to the events that have happened in history, showing again you wasted countless posts not even understanding the view point where your hateful prejudice has the same arguments as used against the Jews.

Again you are trying to justify hating Muslims, not only by fallacy association, which using your simpleton logic would place of all a group for example like Christians as terrorists, because there are Christian terrorist. That is absurd and is the usual reply of someone of hate. Again not only do you justify the extremists view point of hate, you actually fuel their view point of hate and cast all Muslims as a threat, which is what they want to happen so they can get more Muslims to be extremist, a vicious circle only an idiot would add too.

Again thus the evidence is not refuted, you use the similar arguments of prejudice against Muslims, just as the Nazi's did against the Jews.


Says much about you  

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

can you rephrase that into something that makes sense??

i would love to reply but im not sure what you're actually trying to say poppet


Dear me, its not my fault you are an immigrant an d cannot understand English, sorry but I suggest some evening classes may help, try starting with ABC

Hilarious another copout from the simpleton, who has no answer as per usual on the point in hand.

PMSL

 ::D:: 

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:48 am

smelly_bandit wrote:anyway

i was wondering what was meant by

"even though we see many Muslims progress being against even their own religious views"

if Muslims are progressing then what does it say about Islam is progression goes against Islamic religious views??


I answered that point with asking you a question, I suggest you really learn to read first before engaging in debates

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:36 am

Didge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:anyway

i was wondering what was meant by

"even though we see many Muslims progress being against even their own religious views"

if Muslims are progressing then what does it say about Islam is progression goes against Islamic religious views??


I answered that point with asking you a question, I suggest you really learn to read first before engaging in debates  

yes didge we all know you answer questions with questions


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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:39 am

Didge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

can you rephrase that into something that makes sense??

i would love to reply but im not sure what you're actually trying to say poppet


Dear me, its not my fault you are an immigrant an d cannot understand English, sorry but I suggest some evening classes may help, try starting with ABC

Hilarious another copout from the simpleton, who has no answer as per usual on the point in hand.

PMSL

 ::D:: 

*insert bored nonchalant shrugging smilie here*


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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:57 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:


I answered that point with asking you a question, I suggest you really learn to read first before engaging in debates  

yes didge we all know you answer questions with questions



Love it, he admits he cannot show the difference in the prejudice arguments and still prattles aimlessly on ha ha


Never mind smelly

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:27 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Smelly, without meaning any insult, there are things you will probably never understand.  This is a conversation between intellectuals, who understand reason, and who respect logic.  I don't want to leave you out, but then I don't see that you need to know what is going on.

Follow...or don't follow, as you wish.  We are talking about interpretation of certain themes such as Christian humanism and Muslim conservatism.  We don't cotton to any quick analyses.  We sure as hell don't invite any conservative quips.  We are discussing a complex question of doctrine.

But, as I say, I don't want to leave you out.  Ask away, any questions.  If you are seriously interested, I would love to discuss.

oh don't worry quill, you couldn't possibly insult me

understand reason and respect logic??

sure pal because you're so big on reason and logic aren't you

your argument tactics consist of waffle, until the point you're over matched and then you resort to the leftist default of calling anyone you haven't managed to bore off the thread, some kind of "ist" or "phobe"

you will have to forgive me my lack of awe at your "intellect"

Smelly, it's not about me. It isn't even about you. When you start these personal assaults, you are essentially changing the subject being discussed. My head is not into your new subject, so all you alter is empty time and space.

Now get back on station.

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:31 am

Didge wrote:PMSL a smelly response with as usual no response to the debate, guess as he said he does not understand is the reality, poor chap

Haha...we both had the same thought.

I'm reading all this the next morning, so I'm just at the end of page two...I'm just catching up, but it's interesting we both had the same visceral response.

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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:56 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:PMSL a smelly response with as usual no response to the debate, guess as he said he does not understand is the reality, poor chap

Haha...we both had the same thought.

I'm reading all this the next morning, so I'm just at the end of page two...I'm just catching up, but it's interesting we both had the same visceral response.


 lol! 

I won't be around much tonight so have fun with smelly, if he dares to of course, shall catch up more tomorrow, so enjoy Quill.

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:08 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Haha...we both had the same thought.

I'm reading all this the next morning, so I'm just at the end of page two...I'm just catching up, but it's interesting we both had the same visceral response.


 lol! 

I won't be around much tonight so have fun with smelly, if he dares to of course, shall catch up more tomorrow, so enjoy Quill.

 :asdrnkbudsas:  Have a great weekend, Didge.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:52 am

Original Quill wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

oh don't worry quill, you couldn't possibly insult me

understand reason and respect logic??

sure pal because you're so big on reason and logic aren't you

your argument tactics consist of waffle, until the point you're over matched and then you resort to the leftist default of calling anyone you haven't managed to bore off the thread, some kind of "ist" or "phobe"

you will have to forgive me my lack of awe at your "intellect"

Smelly, it's not about me.  It isn't even about you.  When you start these personal assaults, you are essentially changing the subject being discussed.  My head is not into your new subject, so all you alter is empty time and space.

Now get back on station.

You're boring me quill

Here is a tip

Stop trying to be a "deep thinker" it may dazzle your mate didge and the rest of your fan club most of whom can barely strong words into a sensible sentence

But I can spot waffle when I see it.


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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:53 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Haha...we both had the same thought.

I'm reading all this the next morning, so I'm just at the end of page two...I'm just catching up, but it's interesting we both had the same visceral response.


 lol! 

I won't be around much tonight so have fun with smelly, if he dares to of course, shall catch up more tomorrow, so enjoy Quill.

Ah friends forum friends

Feel better now that your big friend is here to hold your hand do you??

Grow a pair of balls and own your views instead of relying of your friend to back you up

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:16 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:


 lol! 

I won't be around much tonight so have fun with smelly, if he dares to of course, shall catch up more tomorrow, so enjoy Quill.

Ah friends forum friends

Feel better now that your big friend is here to hold your hand do you??

Grow a pair of balls and own your views instead of relying of your friend to back you up

Have never needed friends to wipe the floor off your ignorant view points, funny now just because two people agree with each other here, you get all upset ha ha ha ha ha.

I think it is about time you grew up from hate

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:17 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Smelly, it's not about me.  It isn't even about you.  When you start these personal assaults, you are essentially changing the subject being discussed.  My head is not into your new subject, so all you alter is empty time and space.

Now get back on station.

You're boring me quill

Here is a tip

Stop trying to be a "deep thinker" it may dazzle your mate didge and the rest of your fan club most of whom can barely strong words into a sensible sentence

But I can spot waffle when I see it.



Funny as it is you doing the waffling and not debating ha ha ha ha

Oh my, so funny

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:25 am

Didge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

You're boring me quill

Here is a tip

Stop trying to be a "deep thinker" it may dazzle your mate didge and the rest of your fan club most of whom can barely strong words into a sensible sentence

But I can spot waffle when I see it.



Funny as it is you doing the waffling and not debating ha ha ha ha

Oh my, so funny

There isn't anything to debate

Your argument is that the same tactics used to vilify Jews is being used on Muslim

I've presented a counter point that shows that Jews were innocent of wrong doing and the propaganda used against them was fabricated

Whereas the Muslim populations are entirely responsible for their actions -9/11,7/7,etc etc and it those actions, no lies and propaganda, that resulting in an increase in resentment and anger against them

Muslims are the authors of their own misfortunes Jews were not

Beyond that there isn't anything else to discuss and you can shout and scream about how I can't address your "points" all you want didge

It won't make you right and it won't make me wrong, I've addressed your argument and my counter point stands and I am content that it effectively deconstructs your OP and exposes the sinister propaganda you are using

Anything else doesn't really interest me


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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:33 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:


Funny as it is you doing the waffling and not debating ha ha ha ha

Oh my, so funny

There isn't anything to debate

Your argument is that the same tactics used to vilify Jews is being used on Muslim

I've presented a counter point that shows that Jews were innocent of wrong doing and the propaganda used against them was fabricated

Whereas the Muslim populations are entirely responsible for their actions -9/11,7/7,etc etc and it those actions, no lies and propaganda, that resulting in an increase in resentment and anger against them

Muslims are the authors of their own misfortunes Jews were not

Beyond that there isn't anything else to discuss and you can shout and scream about how I can't address your "points" all you want didge

It won't make you right and it won't make me wrong, I've addressed your argument and my counter point stands and I am content that it effectively deconstructs your OP and exposes the sinister propaganda you are using

Anything else doesn't really interest me



There you have it again smelly conceding that his arguments are no different, the only difference he offers is trying to justify using these hateful prejudice arguments off the back of how extremists act with the belief he views this as the real Islam, which we all know is utterly absurd.

Your argument was born from hate and also a lack of education, especially on religion, when you use choice verses and know nothing at all about Islam.


So I am afraid it does make me right, you have also just admitted it is justifiable over the actions of some Muslims


Oh dear guilt by association again


Thank you that was very easy

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:46 am

And this folks is the disassociation tactic used by the left which I described earlier

They claim that the Islam followed by the "extremists" (not Muslim Muslims) is not the "real Islam" followed by the proper Muslim Muslims

The sticking point for the left is that both mythical groups read the same book and have the same god and the same religion



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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:57 am

smelly_bandit wrote:And this folks is the disassociation tactic used by the left which I described earlier

They claim that the Islam followed by the "extremists" (not Muslim Muslims) is not the "real Islam" followed by the proper Muslim Muslims

The sticking point for the left is that both mythical groups read the same book and have the same god and the same religion




Actually it matters little who is following the real Islam as you call it, what matters is you lump and tar them all with the same brush due to the actions of the extremists, showing again how your argument makes no utter sense. Your same illogical view point can apply to any faith, which makes it even more stupid, that if a Christian, or Jew or Hindu has extremists that commit acts and claim to do so off the back of their faith then by your stupidity they are all guilty by association because they read the same book.


It just gets funnier and funnier reading your daft replies

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:52 am

It's only a few, and they're not proper muslems.....

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:06 am

Didge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:And this folks is the disassociation tactic used by the left which I described earlier

They claim that the Islam followed by the "extremists" (not Muslim Muslims) is not the "real Islam" followed by the proper Muslim Muslims

The sticking point for the left is that both mythical groups read the same book and have the same god and the same religion




Actually it matters little who is following the real Islam as you call it, what matters is you lump and tar them all with the same brush due to the actions of the extremists, showing again how your argument makes no utter sense. Your same illogical view point can apply to any faith, which makes it even more stupid, that if a Christian, or Jew or Hindu has extremists that commit acts and claim to do so off the back of their faith then by your stupidity they are all guilty by association because they read the same book.


It just gets funnier and funnier reading your daft replies

Again folks

This is exactly the tactic followed by the left which I described earlier

They create a straw man argument which they claim is based on association fallacy they then assign the argument THEY have create to the person they are arguing with and then proceed to attack their own argument

The actual argument I made is ignored

At no stage have I lumped all Muslims together and yet that fabricated lie is what I am being accused of

I made three large posts analysing the thought process of the left and didge is as always very obliging acting as a very good demo man for proving my posts

I wonder which post he will be demonstrating next

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:15 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:


Actually it matters little who is following the real Islam as you call it, what matters is you lump and tar them all with the same brush due to the actions of the extremists, showing again how your argument makes no utter sense. Your same illogical view point can apply to any faith, which makes it even more stupid, that if a Christian, or Jew or Hindu has extremists that commit acts and claim to do so off the back of their faith then by your stupidity they are all guilty by association because they read the same book.


It just gets funnier and funnier reading your daft replies

Again folks

This is exactly the tactic followed by the left which I described earlier

They create a straw man argument which they claim is based on association fallacy they then assign the argument THEY have create to the person they are arguing with and then proceed to attack their own argument

The actual argument I made is ignored

At no stage have I lumped all Muslims together and yet that fabricated lie is what I am being accused of

I made three large posts analysing the thought process of the left and didge is as always very obliging acting as a very good demo man for proving my posts

I wonder which post he will be demonstrating next

 ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 


No of course you do not cast all Muslims under the same umbrella as the Islam you perceive.

Seriously PMSL at that load of babble and not once have you proven anything accept something you plagiarized which in itself makes no sense, accept only to the far right.
Many RW wing people also do not share your view, so to claim left, shows how inept you are at anything really


Please continue with the babble, it is most entertaining[/quote]

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:30 am

And under which umbrella shall I cast them??

They are Muslims they believe in Islam

OBL was a Muslim who followed Islam

AL-Q are peopled by Muslims who follow Islam

There is only one qur'an and it is read and followed by ALL Muslims - the good and the bad alike

So the umbrella Muslims come under is Islam

Not really sure what the issue with that is??

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:38 am

smelly_bandit wrote:And under which umbrella shall I cast them??

They are Muslims they believe in Islam

OBL was a Muslim who followed Islam

AL-Q are peopled by Muslims who follow Islam

There is only one qur'an and it is read and followed by ALL Muslims - the good and the bad alike

So the umbrella Muslims come under is Islam

Not really sure what the issue with that is??


Hilarious, so lets use smelly's absurd logic here

Hitler was a Christian/Catholic

The Lord's Resistance army is peopled by Christians.

There is the bible which is read by and followed by all Christians - the good and the bad alike

The umbrella that Christians come under is Christianity.

The bible teaches Herem, which means total annihilation.

Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites:

"And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

Throughout history Christianity is strewn with Herem.

During the Crusades in the Middle Ages, the Catholic popes declared the Muslims Amalekites.

Even American stories of the war with indigenous Indians claims not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not.


So by smelly's logic all Abrahamic religions are dangerous and need to eradicated, because people use the religious works to enact and justify violence.


Sorry you were saying?

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:24 am

Didge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:And under which umbrella shall I cast them??

They are Muslims they believe in Islam

OBL was a Muslim who followed Islam

AL-Q are peopled by Muslims who follow Islam

There is only one qur'an and it is read and followed by ALL Muslims - the good and the bad alike

So the umbrella Muslims come under is Islam

Not really sure what the issue with that is??


Hilarious, so lets use smelly's absurd logic here

Hitler was a Christian/Catholic

The Lord's Resistance army is peopled by Christians.

There is the bible which is read by and followed by all Christians - the good and the bad alike

The umbrella that Christians come under is Christianity.

The bible teaches Herem, which means total annihilation.

Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites:

"And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

Throughout history Christianity is strewn with Herem.

During the Crusades in the Middle Ages, the Catholic popes declared the Muslims Amalekites.

Even American stories of the war with indigenous Indians claims not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not.


So by smelly's logic all Abrahamic religions are dangerous and need to eradicated, because people use the religious works to enact and justify violence.


Sorry you were saying?
Adolph Hitler was a Christian?!!

Adolf Hitler was raised by an anticlerical, skeptic father and a devout Catholic mother. Baptized and Confirmed as a child, he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood. In adulthood, he became disdainful of Christianity, but in power was prepared to delay clashes with the churches out of political considerations, It is generally believed by historians that Hitler's long term aim was the eradication of Christianity in Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

Infallible argument as usual Didge.  :asboredas: 

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:29 am

Tesstacious wrote:
Didge wrote:


Hilarious, so lets use smelly's absurd logic here

Hitler was a Christian/Catholic

The Lord's Resistance army is peopled by Christians.

There is the bible which is read by and followed by all Christians - the good and the bad alike

The umbrella that Christians come under is Christianity.

The bible teaches Herem, which means total annihilation.

Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites:

"And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

Throughout history Christianity is strewn with Herem.

During the Crusades in the Middle Ages, the Catholic popes declared the Muslims Amalekites.

Even American stories of the war with indigenous Indians claims not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not.


So by smelly's logic all Abrahamic religions are dangerous and need to eradicated, because people use the religious works to enact and justify violence.


Sorry you were saying?
Adolph Hitler was a Christian?!!

Adolf Hitler was raised by an anticlerical, skeptic father and a devout Catholic mother. Baptized and Confirmed as a child, he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood. In adulthood, he became disdainful of Christianity, but in power was prepared to delay clashes with the churches out of political considerations,  It is generally believed by historians that Hitler's long term aim was the eradication of Christianity in Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

Infallible argument as usual Didge.   :asboredas: 


Yes you never were that sharp were you Tess:


I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.

- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941



"We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession...."


- Article 20 of the program of the German Workers' Party (later named the National Socialist German Workers' Party, NSDAP)



I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.


As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 3

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:39 am

Didge wrote:
Tesstacious wrote:
Adolph Hitler was a Christian?!!

Adolf Hitler was raised by an anticlerical, skeptic father and a devout Catholic mother. Baptized and Confirmed as a child, he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood. In adulthood, he became disdainful of Christianity, but in power was prepared to delay clashes with the churches out of political considerations,  It is generally believed by historians that Hitler's long term aim was the eradication of Christianity in Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

Infallible argument as usual Didge.   :asboredas: 


Yes you never were that sharp were you Tess:


I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.

- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941



"We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession...."


- Article 20 of the program of the German Workers' Party (later named the National Socialist German Workers' Party, NSDAP)



I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.


As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 3

Well he would say that wouldn't he?  ::lies:: 

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:47 am

Actually Didge the subject of Hitler's religious beliefs is an interesting one. I did some study on it years ago as part of a Humanities course, but I can't remember now of course, being so ancient and all that. But I do remember the general concensus was that he was against Christianity per se. Maybe this should be on a separate thread, but anyway...

There is a book by Michael Hesemann, a German historian, in which he is interpreting Hitlers religion (that is actually the title of the book) like this:

Hitlers plans where going towards a "German pseudo-religion". Hitler got his first ideas from the "Ostara"-magazine, that was published between 1903 to 1931 and propagated Aryan and antisemitic theories. The publisher, an Austrian named Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels, wanted to get his followers to convert to Protestantism, but most of the Austrian population was strictly catholic at this time, so he failed. So Hitler, not wanting to share the fate of Liebenfels, had to keep an catholic facade. He needed the church (catholic and protestant) to get a chance to achieve his goals. Hitler found his idol in Richard Wagner. In his beliefs, Jesus Christ was Aryan, but was affected and influenced by the Jews and therefore his teachings were distorted.

Hitlers target was actually to destroy Christianity to make way for his German religion, but considering the percentage of German Christians, this was not possible, so Hitler started with the Jewish population. Nonetheless there have been assaults on catholic churches and priests too.

According to Hesemann, the destruction of Christianity in the Third Reich would have been Hitlers plan after the "Endsieg".

So, personally, I can't say if that is the truth, but it seems reasonable in some factors, but I want to close with a quote from Hitler, spoken in 1941:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.

Source:

Michael Hesemann - Hitlers Religion

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:26 am

Still being silly though Tess, was Hitler a Christian?

Yes, whether you believe he remained a Catholic or not he was a Christian and the acts of the German people were also Christians under the Nazi's.

Did the Nazi party promote itself as positive Christianity?

Yes

Where was the anti Jew view taken from ?

Lutheranism

What is Lutheranism?

Christianity

Anything more stupid to add Tess or do you fail to see the point?

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:33 am

Didge wrote:Still being silly though Tess, was Hitler a Christian?

Yes, whether you believe he remained a Catholic or not he was a Christian and the acts of the German people were also Christians under the Nazi's.

Did the Nazi party promote itself as positive Christianity?

Yes

Where was the anti Jew view taken from ?

Lutheranism

What is Lutheranism?

Christianity

Anything more stupid to add Tess or do you fail to see the point?

Well golly gosh, imagine that - all those university lecturers telling me those silly lies.  Good thing you're around to put us all straight eh...

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:35 am

Tesstacious wrote:
Didge wrote:Still being silly though Tess, was Hitler a Christian?

Yes, whether you believe he remained a Catholic or not he was a Christian and the acts of the German people were also Christians under the Nazi's.

Did the Nazi party promote itself as positive Christianity?

Yes

Where was the anti Jew view taken from ?

Lutheranism

What is Lutheranism?

Christianity

Anything more stupid to add Tess or do you fail to see the point?

Well golly gosh, imagine that - all those university lecturers telling me those silly lies.  Good thing you're around to put us all straight eh...

Islamoprejudice & Anti-Semitism:  - Page 3 Pgceio10


PMSL, was Hitler raised a Christian?

Yes, ha ha ha ha., seriously, people debate whether he was or not or even remained a Christian, even from your original link, seriously how daft can you get and miss the whole point.

Did the Nazi party promote itself as positive Christianity?

Yes




So was I wrong to say Hitler was a Christian/Catholic?

Nope, ha ha ha ha ha ha

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:04 am

Tesstacious wrote:
Didge wrote:


Hilarious, so lets use smelly's absurd logic here

Hitler was a Christian/Catholic

The Lord's Resistance army is peopled by Christians.

There is the bible which is read by and followed by all Christians - the good and the bad alike

The umbrella that Christians come under is Christianity.

The bible teaches Herem, which means total annihilation.

Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites:

"And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

Throughout history Christianity is strewn with Herem.

During the Crusades in the Middle Ages, the Catholic popes declared the Muslims Amalekites.

Even American stories of the war with indigenous Indians claims not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not.


So by smelly's logic all Abrahamic religions are dangerous and need to eradicated, because people use the religious works to enact and justify violence.


Sorry you were saying?
Adolph Hitler was a Christian?!!

Adolf Hitler was raised by an anticlerical, skeptic father and a devout Catholic mother. Baptized and Confirmed as a child, he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood. In adulthood, he became disdainful of Christianity, but in power was prepared to delay clashes with the churches out of political considerations,  It is generally believed by historians that Hitler's long term aim was the eradication of Christianity in Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

Infallible argument as usual Didge.   :asboredas: 

Oh yeah

Didge loves the whole "hitler was Christian therefore Christianity is responsible for the holocaust"

If you want to see him self destruct then wait till he is in full flow and has made the point about how Christian doctrine supports the holocaust and then ask him about sura9:29 and if that supports killing or not

The result is a runaway train being thrown into reverse gear

Lol

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:06 am

Didge wrote:
Tesstacious wrote:
Adolph Hitler was a Christian?!!

Adolf Hitler was raised by an anticlerical, skeptic father and a devout Catholic mother. Baptized and Confirmed as a child, he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood. In adulthood, he became disdainful of Christianity, but in power was prepared to delay clashes with the churches out of political considerations,  It is generally believed by historians that Hitler's long term aim was the eradication of Christianity in Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

Infallible argument as usual Didge.   :asboredas: 


Yes you never were that sharp were you Tess:


I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.

- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941



"We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession...."


- Article 20 of the program of the German Workers' Party (later named the National Socialist German Workers' Party, NSDAP)



I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.


As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 3

Any of his quotes reference Islam??

No??

How very convenient for your argument eh??

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:16 am

More like how convenient you avoid my whole point on the Abrahamic faiths.

Never mind smelly, it was once again very easy for me to expose your illogical view points.

Never claimed the Holocaust was because of Christianity, I was showing using your illogical view point it would be, that is the saddest part about your ignorance smelly, which you fail to see.

Lutheranism played a massive part in anti-antisemitism views held by many Germans, but like Islamism, it is an interpretation of a faith, which again you fail to understand.


There is no denying the Nazi party advocated positive Christianity also, hence on all fronts you are down the hole unable to get out


Never mind sonny

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:22 am

Didge wrote:More like how convenient you avoid my whole point on the Abrahamic faiths.

Never mind smelly, it was once again very easy for me to expose your illogical view points.

Never claimed the Holocaust was because of Christianity, I was showing using your illogical view point it would be, that is the saddest part about your ignorance smelly, which you fail to see.

Lutheranism played a massive part in anti-antisemitism views held by many Germans, but like Islamism, it is an interpretation of a faith, which again you fail to understand.


There is no denying the Nazi party advocated positive Christianity also, hence on all fronts you are down the hole unable to get out


Never mind sonny


Folks what you will see is the lefts classic disassociation theory in action

Islamism is the term the left use to describe the mythical "other Islam" followed by their imaginary not Muslim Muslim "extremists"


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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:27 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Didge wrote:More like how convenient you avoid my whole point on the Abrahamic faiths.

Never mind smelly, it was once again very easy for me to expose your illogical view points.

Never claimed the Holocaust was because of Christianity, I was showing using your illogical view point it would be, that is the saddest part about your ignorance smelly, which you fail to see.

Lutheranism played a massive part in anti-antisemitism views held by many Germans, but like Islamism, it is an interpretation of a faith, which again you fail to understand.


There is no denying the Nazi party advocated positive Christianity also, hence on all fronts you are down the hole unable to get out


Never mind sonny


Folks what you will see is the lefts classic disassociation theory in action

Islamism is the term the left use to describe the mythical "other Islam" followed by their imaginary not Muslim Muslim "extremists"


No myth, Islamism is an interpretation, one of advocating killing innocents, when Islam does not teach to kill innocent people, it does advocate defending itself, but again not through means which the Islamist wrongly interpret Islam. If you claim it is the same, then why is there different view points taught within Islam, just as there is within Christianity?

DOH


You find the same with Christian extremist, but of course smelly will claim they are true followers of Christianity, if they are extremists?

Take your time dummy


DOH


Still unable to distinguish left from right, if you need help, you are so far right you have fallen off the scales

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:28 am

I love how he says folks, talk about desperate for attention and an audience, ha ha ha ha ha ha

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:34 am

More myths and propaganda for the left folks

A question to the forum if Islam doesn't teach killing in any form then how can its teachings be interpreted to mean kill??

Here is an exercise for the forum

"At the T-junction do NOT go left, go right"

Now I challenge anyone including the left, to interpret what I have just said so that they can understand it to mean to take the left option

Proceed

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:41 am

smelly_bandit wrote:More myths and propaganda for the left folks

A question to the forum if Islam doesn't teach killing in any form then how can its teachings be interpreted to mean kill??

Here is an exercise for the forum

"At the T-junction do NOT go left, go right"

Now I challenge anyone including the left, to interpret what I have just said so that they can understand it to mean to take the left option

Proceed  

Hilarious interpretation by smelly as why again is there different schools of thought in Islam and Christianity.

By his logic, all Christians are proponents of Herem, which is genocide.
I do not claim the Quran is peaceful, because it advocates to fight back against people, but what smelly does is ignore countless verses, take some verses the Islamists claim back their view and thus smelly agrees with the Islamists. It does not get any more dafter than that, he ignores countless scholars that teach different to Islamists, which always negates his argument

I love how smelly always ignores all my points because they do not fit his idiotic agenda.

Again does he not advocate Herem, as it is commanded in the Bible, guess he must have amnesia

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Post by Guest on Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:49 pm

so based on the lack of response

we must conclude that when an instruction is given in clear and unambiguous language, then we see that there is no room for personal interpretation.

this is good, we are making progress

now if we apply this logic to Islamic scripture which is given in clear and unambiguous language, we see that like the above example there is no room for personal interpretation

so for example the following sura in the qur'an

9:29
O ye who believe! Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


we see that there are several parts to the above which must be examined

"Fight" - constitutes a clear instruction

"those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,"
- the subject of the instruction

"until" - constitutes a control measure and a means by which hostilities can end

"they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."   - constitutes the compromise and prerequisites which are required in order for hostilities to end

so in basic terms, the above sura has effectively declared unilateral war against anyone and everyone who does not believe as muhhamd did, and commands those who do, to kill and fight those who don't UNTIL they do or until they surrender their freedoms and pay financial compensation and accept second class status

we we see such commands laid out so clearly then we must accept that  there is very little "interpreting" needed in order to justify or indeed explain where the violence we see carried out by Muslims across the world comes from

it comes from Islam

the left of course will attempt to portray this violent hate mongering religion as separate from a mythical "peaceful" Islam  

in fact they have even invented a new name for it - they call it Islamism --------------> ://?roflmao?/: 

and they then attempt to say that it is not "real Islam" that is to say it is not the Islam observed and practiced by "real Muslims" but rather it is the "not Islam" Islam followed by "not Muslim" Muslim "extremists"

however this myth continues to fail when we apply their logic to a second example

lets consider

2:173
He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful.


the above sura taken from the same qur'an as the previous example (9:29)

in the above sura we see the prohibition relating to willingly eating pork

if the extremist refrains from eating pork because of this and the "moderate" refrains from eating pork because of this,

then the question i have to asked is who is doing the misinterpreting??

the extremist who is following the qur'an as is read??

or

the moderate who is follwoing the qur'an as is read??

 Wink 

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Post by SEXY MAMA on Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:16 pm

Does the Qur’an Teach Violence?


By Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi

Q: Does Islam really teach peace? I am a Christian and I do not hate Muslims, but I read in the Qur’an verses like, “And slay them wherever ye catch them..” (2:191) and “…But if they turn away, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” (4:89). How can a peaceful religion teach these things? How do you explain these verses. These quotations from your Holy Book do really make us very uneasy with your faith. I would appreciate your reply.


A: Thank you very much for your kind words that you do not hate Muslims. Hate is not good for any person. I want to assure you that we Muslims also do not hate non-Muslims, be they Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist or followers of any religion or no religion. Our religions does not allow killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. The life of all human beings is sacrosanct according to the teachings of the Qur’an and the guidance of our blessed Prophet Muhammad -peace be upon him and upon all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah.


The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, “…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.” (al-An’am 6:151) and Allah says in the Qur’an, “Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)” (al-Isra’ 17:33). According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. (See al-Ma’idah 5:32)


However, your question is valid then how come the Qur’an says, “kill them wherever you find them…” as it is mentioned in Surah al-Baqarah 2:191 and Surah al-Nisa’ 4:89. The answer is simple and that is you should read these verses in their textual and historical context. You should read the whole verse and it is better that you read few verses before and few after. Read the full text and see what is said:


“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)


For your second quotation also read the full text:


“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. (Al-Nisa’ 4:89-91)


Now tell me honestly, do these verses give a free permission to kill any one any where? These verses were revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the “terrorist”. These verses are not a permission for “terrorism” but they are a warning against the “terrorists.” But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized.


It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.


Let me mention just a few verses from the Old Testament and New Testament and tell me what do you say about them:


“When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)


“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you… Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)


Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)


Even in the New Testament we read the following statement attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples:


“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)
Does the Qur’an Teach Violence?


By Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi

Q: Does Islam really teach peace? I am a Christian and I do not hate Muslims, but I read in the Qur’an verses like, “And slay them wherever ye catch them..” (2:191) and “…But if they turn away, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” (4:89). How can a peaceful religion teach these things? How do you explain these verses. These quotations from your Holy Book do really make us very uneasy with your faith. I would appreciate your reply.


A: Thank you very much for your kind words that you do not hate Muslims. Hate is not good for any person. I want to assure you that we Muslims also do not hate non-Muslims, be they Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist or followers of any religion or no religion. Our religions does not allow killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. The life of all human beings is sacrosanct according to the teachings of the Qur’an and the guidance of our blessed Prophet Muhammad -peace be upon him and upon all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah.


The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, “…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.” (al-An’am 6:151) and Allah says in the Qur’an, “Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)” (al-Isra’ 17:33). According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. (See al-Ma’idah 5:32)


However, your question is valid then how come the Qur’an says, “kill them wherever you find them…” as it is mentioned in Surah al-Baqarah 2:191 and Surah al-Nisa’ 4:89. The answer is simple and that is you should read these verses in their textual and historical context. You should read the whole verse and it is better that you read few verses before and few after. Read the full text and see what is said:


“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)


For your second quotation also read the full text:


“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. (Al-Nisa’ 4:89-91)


Now tell me honestly, do these verses give a free permission to kill any one any where? These verses were revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the “terrorist”. These verses are not a permission for “terrorism” but they are a warning against the “terrorists.” But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized.


It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.


Let me mention just a few verses from the Old Testament and New Testament and tell me what do you say about them:


“When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)


“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you… Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)


Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)


Even in the New Testament we read the following statement attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples:


“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27






_________________
"Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” — Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
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Post by Guest on Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:44 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:so based on the lack of response

we must conclude that when an instruction is given in clear and unambiguous language, then we see that there is no room for personal interpretation.

this is good, we are making progress

now if we apply this logic to Islamic scripture which is given in clear and unambiguous language, we see that like the above example there is no room for personal interpretation

so for example the following sura in the qur'an

9:29
O ye who believe! Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


we see that there are several parts to the above which must be examined

"Fight" - constitutes a clear instruction

"those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,"
- the subject of the instruction

"until" - constitutes a control measure and a means by which hostilities can end

"they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."   - constitutes the compromise and prerequisites which are required in order for hostilities to end

so in basic terms, the above sura has effectively declared unilateral war against anyone and everyone who does not believe as muhhamd did, and commands those who do, to kill and fight those who don't UNTIL they do or until they surrender their freedoms and pay financial compensation and accept second class status

we we see such commands laid out so clearly then we must accept that  there is very little "interpreting" needed in order to justify or indeed explain where the violence we see carried out by Muslims across the world comes from

it comes from Islam

the left of course will attempt to portray this violent hate mongering religion as separate from a mythical "peaceful" Islam  

in fact they have even invented a new name for it - they call it Islamism --------------> ://?roflmao?/: 

and they then attempt to say that it is not "real Islam" that is to say it is not the Islam observed and practiced by "real Muslims" but rather it is the "not Islam" Islam followed by "not Muslim" Muslim "extremists"

however this myth continues to fail when we apply their logic to a second example

lets consider

2:173
He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful.


the above sura taken from the same qur'an as the previous example (9:29)

in the above sura we see the prohibition relating to willingly eating pork

if the extremist refrains from eating pork because of this and the "moderate" refrains from eating pork because of this,

then the question i have to asked is who is doing the misinterpreting??  

the extremist who is following the qur'an as is read??

or

the moderate who is follwoing the qur'an as is read??

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Dear me, the Jizya was a tax set aside for non-Muslims, which exempted them from fighting but also protecting them as subjects. Also only men would pay this tax, not women or children, so how can this verse mean to fight Non-Muslims?
It cannot, it means clearly that Muslims can only fight if those non-Muslim men who have not paid the tax, just like anyone who dodges taxes, but smelly must believe we should do nothing about Tax dodging, as no doubt he believes in that. This tax was also way less than that paid by Muslims.


Now surely if it means as smelly claims it means, maybe he can explain why it was paid back when Muslims had to retreat from a territory?


'Umar gave his government an administrative structure. Departments of treasury, army and public revenues were established. Regular salaries were set up for soldiers. A popuation census was held. Elaborate land surveys were conducted to assess equitable taxes. New cities were founded. The areas which came under his rule were divided into provinces and governors were appointed. New roads were laid, canals were lug and wayside hotels were built. Provision was made for he support of the poor and the needy from public funds. He defined, by precept and by example, the rights and privileges of non-Muslims, an example of which is the following contract with the Christians of Jerusalem:

"This is the protection which the servant of God, 'Umar, the Ruler of the Believers has granted to the people of Eiliya [Jerusalem]. The protection is for their lives and properties, their churches and crosses, their sick and healthy and for all their coreligionists. Their churches shall not be used for habitation, nor shall they be demolished, nor shall any injury be done to them or to their compounds, or to their crosses, nor shall their properties be injured in any way. There shall be no compulsion for these people in the matter of religion, nor shall any of them suffer any injury on account of religion... Whatever is written herein is under the covenant of God and the responsibility of His Messenger, of the Caliphs and of the believers, and shall hold good as long as they pay Jizya [the tax for their defense] imposed on them."

Those non-Muslims who took part in defense together with the Muslims were exempted from paying Jizya, and when the Muslims had to retreat from a city whose non-Muslim citizens had paid this tax for their defense, the tax was returned to the non-Muslims. The old, the poor and the disabled of Muslims and non-Muslims alike were provided for from the public treasury and from the Zakat funds.


Oh dear, poor smell's concept has just sank faster than HMS Hood did


Now you find no comparison with Herem in the bible:



Herem or cherem (Hebrew: חרם, ḥērem), as used in the Tanakh, means ‘devote’ or ‘destroy’.[2] It is also referred to as the ban. The term has been explained in different ways by scholars. It has been defined as "a mode of secluding, and rendering harmless, anything imperilling the religious life of the nation,"[3] or "the total destruction of the enemy and his goods at the conclusion of a campaign,"[4] or "uncompromising consecration of property and dedication of the property to God without possibility of recall or redemption.[2] J. A. Thompson suggests that herem meant that in the hour of victory all that would normally be regarded as booty, including the inhabitants of the land, was to be devoted to God. Thus would every harmful thing be burned out and the land purified.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herem_(war_or_property)


So we see and I do not think Islam is not a pacifist religion, it certainly allows Muslims to fight back, but why does Smelly ignore all the verses on only fighting to transgress? But the Biblical deity orders genocide, which smelly seems to have once again had a bout of amnesia, maybe he can explain both points, because as seen throughout history Christians have tried to justify committing genocide using this exact same Herem view point which shows anyone of a faith can interpret a view to commit violence, no matter which Abrahamic faith.


Try again dummy

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Post by Guest on Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:48 pm

Herem or cherem (Hebrew: חרם, ḥērem), as used in the Tanakh, means ‘devote’ or ‘destroy’.[2] It is also referred to as the ban. The term has been explained in different ways by scholars. It has been defined as "a mode of secluding, and rendering harmless, anything imperilling the religious life of the nation,"[3] or "the total destruction of the enemy and his goods at the conclusion of a campaign,"[4] or "uncompromising consecration of property and dedication of the property to God without possibility of recall or redemption.[2] J. A. Thompson suggests that herem meant that in the hour of victory all that would normally be regarded as booty, including the inhabitants of the land, was to be devoted to God. Thus would every harmful thing be burned out and the land purified.[5]

Nothing further need be said on herem

Sounds pretty good to me

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Post by Guest on Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:51 pm

Mama mama mama

Run along child, you will skin your knees if you carry on like that

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