Why do straight men have a problem with homosexual men but not gay women?

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Post by FluffyBunny on Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:24 pm

First topic message reminder :

I know this does not apply to all straight men btw,the vast majority of which are not homophobic at all.

What does interest me as a straight female is why some men seem to be quite damning and intolerant of gay men but have no problem with gay women? It does seem to be a male trend as women often befriend gay men,their sexuality not being an issue at all.

Is it simply because lesbians together are asthetically pleasing to an onlooker straight male (hence their use in porn etc)?

I was just wondering what exactly is the mentality behind those men who seemingly won't tolerate gay men?

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:48 pm

Erm no we don't, most normal people are not homophobic in the UK or USA these days; only the morons, like you for instance.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:55 pm

It's normal and natural to have a dislike for anything abnormal and unnatural.



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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:59 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It's normal and natural to have a dislike for anything abnormal and unnatural.



very well said ...

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:33 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It's normal and natural to have a dislike for anything abnormal and unnatural.



yes it is but it is getting to the point where we are being forced to accept what we don't like or approve

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:46 pm

VOD(original) wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:It's normal and natural to have a dislike for anything abnormal and unnatural.



yes it is but it is getting to the point where we are being forced to accept what we don't like or approve

If you're going to reject homosexuality on the grounds that it's "not natural" even though it is, since it's been observed throughout the animal kingdom, shouldn't you also reject eyeglasses, pacemakers, crutches, etc. on the same grounds?

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It's normal and natural to have a dislike for anything abnormal and unnatural.



Then all those straight people who don't dislike homosexuals must also be abnormal by your twisted reasoning...

So you're mattiducatti then (the only miserable bigot who obsesses over these terms)  Rolling Eyes 

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:33 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:It's normal and natural to have a dislike for anything abnormal and unnatural.



Then all those straight people who don't dislike homosexuals must also be abnormal by your twisted reasoning...

So you're mattiducatti then (the only miserable bigot who obsesses over these terms)  Rolling Eyes 


It was funny that he was praising himself up on flap about Tommy, even though it was obvious it was him from the start.


Okay Tomy, is attraction normal?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:51 pm

There are differences between modern day inventions that improve the lives of people who use them, and a sexually deviant practice being forced noto everyone to accept as right.
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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:There are differences between modern day inventions that improve the lives of people who use them, and a sexually deviant practice being forced noto everyone to accept as right.


That never answered my question, so I will expand it to you.

Can you control who physically attracts you?
By this I do not mean act on it but who you find attractive.

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:02 pm


"Deviant" from what, TM? If from the purpose of procreation, that would make the majority of hetero sex deviant too.

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:11 pm

lovedust wrote:
"Deviant" from what, TM?  If from the purpose of procreation, that would make the majority of hetero sex deviant too.

Exactly; oral sex between man I woman I suppose is deviance according to Monk, perhaps he never partakes in sex for fun like a good little boy  Laughing 

I personally can't think of anything more unnatural than trying to force gay people to not be gay...

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:15 pm

Well, if sex is only for procreation and anything else is deviant, I'm deviant lol

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Post by nicko on Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:23 pm

go and play with your boomerang wanker, you haven't a clue.
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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:33 pm

I was answering brokeback Bens question previously.

But Didge, to answer your point, some people are attracted to children or sheep for example, that does not justify having some sort of deviant sex with them.


If someone is attracted to another of the same sex then that just shows they have something wrong with their internal programming, because attraction is a key part of the reproductive system. And that is designed to be between two of opposite sex.

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:35 pm

Or perhaps it was built into some to stop the population growing too much?

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I was answering brokeback Bens question previously.

But Didge, to answer your point, some people are attracted to children or sheep for example, that does not justify having some sort of deviant sex with them.


If someone is attracted to another of the same sex then that just shows they have something wrong with their internal programming, because attraction is a key part of the reproductive system. And that is designed to be between two of opposite sex.

'brokeback Ben' is that some incredibly mature way of implying Ben is gay (as if that were an insult) because he supports gay rights same as most straight people in the US and UK?

You avoided the question like a snake I see- do you consider oral sex or any sex for fun as deviant?

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:41 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I was answering brokeback Bens question previously.

But Didge, to answer your point, some people are attracted to children or sheep for example, that does not justify having some sort of deviant sex with them.


If someone is attracted to another of the same sex then that just shows they have something wrong with their internal programming, because attraction is a key part of the reproductive system. And that is designed to be between two of opposite sex.


Why would it be wrong to be attracted to men and no people are not attracted to animals, they are attracted to the sex, not the animal itself. So on that as with those who abuse young children, it is the sex that drives the attraction.
Attraction between men and women, men and men etc can be non-sexual, it can be romantic attraction, sensual etc
So if attraction is built in which we cannot control as you admit, then it is normal for men to find other men attracted, as with women who find women attractive

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I was answering brokeback Bens question previously.

But Didge, to answer your point, some people are attracted to children or sheep for example, that does not justify having some sort of deviant sex with them.


If someone is attracted to another of the same sex then that just shows they have something wrong with their internal programming, because attraction is a key part of the reproductive system. And that is designed to be between two of opposite sex.

Bwhahahaha, sounds like you're one of those guys who acts like he hates gay people but then gets aroused by gay pornography, like in my link above.

You can tell us, we (or at least most of us) won't think any different of you. Smile

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:07 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:I was answering brokeback Bens question previously.

But Didge, to answer your point, some people are attracted to children or sheep for example, that does not justify having some sort of deviant sex with them.


If someone is attracted to another of the same sex then that just shows they have something wrong with their internal programming, because attraction is a key part of the reproductive system. And that is designed to be between two of opposite sex.

Bwhahahaha, sounds like you're one of those guys who acts like he hates gay people but then gets aroused by gay pornography, like in my link above.

You can tell us, we (or at least most of us) won't think any different of you. Smile


He has a flawed argument, he thinks two men engaging in sex is wrong because he cannot dispute the fact people are attracted to each other and there is a proportion of gay men that do not engage in gay sex and never have done, but are attracted to men and not women. So if his argument is of the sexual act of between homosexuals, with anal and oral sex, then again these sex acts are very normal in heterosexual relationships, so he has no claim to this being abnormal.

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:22 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:

yes it is but it is getting to the point where we are being forced to accept what we don't like or approve

If you're going to reject homosexuality on the grounds that it's "not natural" even though it is, since it's been observed throughout the animal kingdom, shouldn't you also reject eyeglasses, pacemakers, crutches, etc. on the same grounds?

bit silly Ben  ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:24 pm

Sassy wrote:Or perhaps it was built into some to stop the population growing too much?

i have often thought that sassy but then most gay couple's desire to be parents so that can't be the reason .

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:26 pm

VOD(original) wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

If you're going to reject homosexuality on the grounds that it's "not natural" even though it is, since it's been observed throughout the animal kingdom, shouldn't you also reject eyeglasses, pacemakers, crutches, etc. on the same grounds?

bit silly Ben  ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

Why is that silly?

Btw I have no idea how true it is that most gay people want to be parents- I know I never did (may not have a choice but I never did)- but regardless IF homosexuality is possibly a natural check on population (which I actually don't think it is); then that is simply countered anyway by modern science (though a gay person can of course 'do the deed' one way or another even without science)

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:27 pm

VOD(original) wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:

yes it is but it is getting to the point where we are being forced to accept what we don't like or approve

If you're going to reject homosexuality on the grounds that it's "not natural" even though it is, since it's been observed throughout the animal kingdom, shouldn't you also reject eyeglasses, pacemakers, crutches, etc. on the same grounds?

bit silly Ben  ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

Not at all, VOD. Homosexuality doesn't harm people, whereas a lot of the modern things we use to make parts of our lives better also make other parts of our lives worse -- look at the food industry, for one big example.

Maybe if people like yourself could keep from sticking your nose into things in which nobody's being victimized, you'd focus your energy on things that actually matter.

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:29 pm

Exactly, because two people loving one another are do so much harm, aren't they!  Rolling Eyes 

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Post by nicko on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:06 pm

what an erudite reply,[look it up bonzo]
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Post by eddie on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:10 pm

Well to answer the OP question, I have also asked men who dislike gay sex that question, and its never been answered propeely.

Ive also said some men are hypocritical as they like anal sex with women.

Hey ho, you never get a straight answer out of these straight guys.

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:14 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:

bit silly Ben  ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

Not at all, VOD. Homosexuality doesn't harm people, whereas a lot of the modern things we use to make parts of our lives better also make other parts of our lives worse -- look at the food industry, for one big example.

Maybe if people like yourself could keep from sticking your nose into things in which nobody's being victimized, you'd focus your energy on things that actually matter.

If you care to read my comments on gays you will find i have no problem with them and i don't stick my nose into anyone's business , but as you mention being victimized then i think gays do want everything their own way and will go to whatever means possible to get it .
If gays are not harming anyone , then why do they insist on forcing people of faith to accept their way of life when it goes against what we believe , why do they want to marry in a church when most gays don't believe in God , why do that ?


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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:15 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:

bit silly Ben  ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

Not at all, VOD. Homosexuality doesn't harm people, whereas a lot of the modern things we use to make parts of our lives better also make other parts of our lives worse -- look at the food industry, for one big example.

Maybe if people like yourself could keep from sticking your nose into things in which nobody's being victimized, you'd focus your energy on things that actually matter.

If you care to read my comments on gays you will find i have no problem with them and i don't stick my nose into anyone's business , but as you mention being victimized then i think gays do want everything their own way and will go to whatever means possible to get it .
If gays are not harming anyone , then why do they insist on forcing people of faith to accept their way of life when it goes against what we believe , why do they want to marry in a church when most gays don't believe in God , why do that ?

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:20 pm

But i really don't care what gays do they live their lives i live mine, if they don't affect my life i am happy and happy for them .

I find it really boring to be honest all the fuss when they have been given permission to marry let them get on and do it but don't force vicars of Pastors to marry to them if it isn't what they believe at least respect them .

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:38 pm

VOD(original) wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Not at all, VOD. Homosexuality doesn't harm people, whereas a lot of the modern things we use to make parts of our lives better also make other parts of our lives worse -- look at the food industry, for one big example.

Maybe if people like yourself could keep from sticking your nose into things in which nobody's being victimized, you'd focus your energy on things that actually matter.

If you care to read my comments on gays you will find i have no problem with them and i don't stick my nose into anyone's business , but as you mention being victimized then i think gays do want everything their own way and will go to whatever means possible to get it .
If gays are not harming anyone , then why do they insist on forcing people of faith to accept their way of life when it goes against what we believe , why do they want to marry in a church when most gays don't believe in God , why do that ?

Some gay people do believe in God. The problem is interpretation AND conviction Dibs. Imagine there is a gay man. He is born a Christian, let's say CofE; he knows what the Bible (written by men thousands of years ago) says. HOWEVER he knows he believes in God. And more so he knows that God loves him and wants him to be happy with his partner. You cannot say for certain this man is not right. The man may believe he has spoken to God through prayer and that through prayer God answered him

(As a side; I would obviously find such a story unquestionable bullshit- but as a believer yourself you will have a harder time rebuking this than I do)...

This sort of thing has happened before. With divorce for instance. Whole institutions as laid down in scripture torn apart by the whims of religious men. Further; since the Bible was written by men and much of its edicts you yourself discard now, it is not beyond reasonable than God can reveal (in the minds of believers) a new truth more appropriate for the time.

If a gay man adamantly believes in God and believer his God would want him happily married to his partner then there are no real strong grounds you can tell him he is wrong.

Now I don't believe in God; nor do I want or intend to get married in a church. But I'm not talking about myself here; I'm simply giving you the view of a hypothetical gay man- though I did once watch a young man give a long speech to a Methodist congregation on this subject that was well recieved.

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:47 pm

It's most likely because a straight guy just couldn't bring himself to think about or watch two gay guys in action as they are attracted to women only, so a woman upon a woman is the very tolerable in some men's views...

But just like man on man, woman upon woman does nothing for me though...

But that in no way detracts from the fact Marc Almond is one of our best ever products as a musician...

If some were to think about it, some of the worlds very best artists are gay.Smile

I'm just your average married guy and gay people have been around as long as straight people.

...I do struggle to understand bisexuals though!


Soft Cell....ok!!Smile


Although Marc Almond is gay, Dave Ball is not ...just thought I would keep everyone straight on that...

Pun intended !! Laughing 

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:29 pm

Eilzel, not avoided, sexual activity between those of opposite sex is completely normal as it is part of normal attraction.

Ben, the 'brokeback' name was just a bit of fun, and I don't hate homosexuals, if anything I feel pity and feel sorry for them, much like I do with anyone who has an affliction. The nut houses are full of people who believe things that are completely bonkers and go against all things rational, and even when presented with indisputable facts and reality, they will still believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Homosexuals are similar in this respect, as it is undeniable that biological design dictates attraction to be between opposite sexes for the purpose of sexual coupling and reproduction, but they refuse to recognise this, and admit that maybe they have got it wrong. The 'I/we do it so it must be right/normal/natural' argument is flawed on so many levels. There are people out there who like to do all sorts of crazy things, this doesn't make it right/normal/natural, but using that same argument can seek to legitimise anything and everything, so where do you draw the line? I draw the line at abnormal and unnatural behaviour being promoted as normal and natural and people being forced to accept it as such 'or else!'. I believe that people should be free to do what they want (within reason, and that includes homosexuals doing what they want behind closed doors), and for people not be persecuted for their views or beliefs (this means homosexuals being free from persecution and also others who think homosexuality is wrong to be free to express that view!). And by the way, I find that picture completely repulsive! (Am I allowed to say that without being called 'homophobic'? As it seems to me that these days, you have to say you do 'like' it, to be considered as NOT 'homophobic'!!! Although, to the leftie, to say you liked to see a picture of 2 men kissing would imply you are homosexual, and to say you didn't like it then that means you are a 'homophobe', and you then have a 'hatred' for homosexuals which then also means you are really a secret homosexual too!!!)

Then there is the other talk of 'what harm is it doing?' (where shall we start?), under the pretence that 'it's just 2 people showing love and that is of course good' etc, going against all the precepts of what is normal/natural, right and proper, and completely ignoring the beliefs of everyone else!

What 2 consenting adults do in their own home behind closed doors is up to them, but there is a difference between allowing homosexuals to practice without persecution or prosecution (which I am all in favour of, although it should still be frowned upon in my opinion), to what we have now with it being launched into mainstream society as being right/normal/natural/equal (with those who quite rightly disagree being the ones who are frowned upon).

I would suggest that the former is (if anything) only a very limited harm (and then being mostly restricted to only those themselves involved), but the latter is seeking to impose itself onto everyone else regardless of beliefs or views in what can only be described as a truly dictatorial style with the usual bully boy style threats of comply or else!!!

Then there is the harm to democracy, the 'gay marriage' bill being brought in by Torys after Cameron specifically stating that he would not be pursuing this move a few days before being elected, and then brought it forward completely without mandate.
Then it only got voted through parliament with the backing of 'opposition' Labour MPs, as it was otherwise destined to be defeated!
How many times do we have a bill put forward by the govt, that is so unpopular with its own MPs that it can only pass with the support of the opposition?

You couldn't make it up!!!

The list of harm goes on....!
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Post by Eilzel on Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:44 am

Then elaborate on the ACTUAL harm. Because like it or not governments will pass laws that were not in a manifesto- this is the only one you seem to be bitching about.

You are still trying to assert what everyone else thinks on what is natural I see; the arrogance continues.

And even if in your narrow view it is not natural- so what? Does it affect you if two men get married? What harm is caused by presenting a view there is nothing wrong with being gay? Don't skirt this question WHAT HARM do those things ACTUALLY cause to YOU in you day to day life?

To me your whole view is incredibly narrow minded- YOU don't like 'the idea' of homosexuality- so we should be confined to the bedroom- no holding hands in the street; no mention of people being gay in schools (except when the words are used as insult eh?); no marriage- just because of what YOU think.

Well news flash- from actually knowing people and talking to people about gay rights issues, your views have been left behind- and I have spoken to many on this- business managers to factory workers, old people, young people, gay people, straight people, black people, white people, Christians, atheists and agnostics, Brits and non-Brits- I have YET to speak to a single person on this matter who even disagrees with gay marriage  Smile 

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:26 am

Eilzel wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:

If you care to read my comments on gays you will find i have no problem with them and i don't stick my nose into anyone's business , but as you mention being victimized then i think gays do want everything their own way and will go to whatever means possible to get it .
If gays are not harming anyone , then why do they insist on forcing people of faith to accept their way of life when it goes against what we believe , why do they want to marry in a church when most gays don't believe in God , why do that ?

Some gay people do believe in God. The problem is interpretation AND conviction Dibs. Imagine there is a gay man. He is born a Christian, let's say CofE; he knows what the Bible (written by men thousands of years ago) says. HOWEVER he knows he believes in God. And more so he knows that God loves him and wants him to be happy with his partner. You cannot say for certain this man is not right. The man may believe he has spoken to God through prayer and that through prayer God answered him

(As a side; I would obviously find such a story unquestionable bullshit- but as a believer yourself you will have a harder time rebuking this than I do)...

This sort of thing has happened before. With divorce for instance. Whole institutions as laid down in scripture torn apart by the whims of religious men. Further; since the Bible was written by men and much of its edicts you yourself discard now, it is not beyond reasonable than God can reveal (in the minds of believers) a new truth more appropriate for the time.

If a gay man adamantly believes in God and believer his God would want him happily married to his partner then there are no real strong grounds you can tell him he is wrong.

Now I don't believe in God; nor do I want or intend to get married in a church. But I'm not talking about myself here; I'm simply giving you the view of a hypothetical gay man- though I did once watch a young man give a long speech to a Methodist congregation on this subject that was well recieved.

Lez i know some gay people believe in God and want to get married in the church and if their church will marry them then hallelujah , but i think Ben's accusation that i am sticking my nose into others business is out of order i haven't criticized gays i simply said that from a biblical view God says it is a sin as any other sin and everyone sins so who am i to judge them , all i know is what scripture says and as i am not God i won't judge others ,but i see i am being judged by Ben for my faith which isn't hurting anyone because the simple answer is , if gays believe in God and their church will marry them then that's up to the vicar and he knows the scriptures and will have to explain to God how he came to that decision .

@Ben this is a debate forum to debate topics are you another person who disagrees with freedom of speech , why did you start a forum did you expect everyone to join and just agree with you .

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:35 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Eilzel, not avoided, sexual activity between those of opposite sex is completely normal as it is part of normal attraction.

Ben, the 'brokeback' name was just a bit of fun, and I don't hate homosexuals, if anything I feel pity and feel sorry for them, much like I do with anyone who has an affliction. The nut houses are full of people who believe things that are completely bonkers and go against all things rational, and even when presented with indisputable facts and reality, they will still believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Homosexuals are similar in this respect, as it is undeniable that biological design dictates attraction to be between opposite sexes for the purpose of sexual coupling and reproduction, but they refuse to recognise this, and admit that maybe they have got it wrong. The 'I/we do it so it must be right/normal/natural' argument is flawed on so many levels. There are people out there who like to do all sorts of crazy things, this doesn't make it right/normal/natural, but using that same argument can seek to legitimise anything and everything, so where do you draw the line? I draw the line at abnormal and unnatural behaviour being promoted as normal and natural and people being forced to accept it as such 'or else!'. I believe that people should be free to do what they want (within reason, and that includes homosexuals doing what they want behind closed doors), and for people not be persecuted for their views or beliefs (this means homosexuals being free from persecution and also others who think homosexuality is wrong to be free to express that view!). And by the way, I find that picture completely repulsive! (Am I allowed to say that without being called 'homophobic'? As it seems to me that these days, you have to say you do 'like' it, to be considered as NOT 'homophobic'!!! Although, to the leftie, to say you liked to see a picture of 2 men kissing would imply you are homosexual, and to say you didn't like it then that means you are a 'homophobe', and you then have a 'hatred' for homosexuals which then also means you are really a secret homosexual too!!!)

Then there is the other talk of 'what harm is it doing?' (where shall we start?), under the pretence that 'it's just 2 people showing love and that is of course good' etc, going against all the precepts of what is normal/natural, right and proper, and completely ignoring the beliefs of everyone else!

What 2 consenting adults do in their own home behind closed doors is up to them, but there is a difference between allowing homosexuals to practice without persecution or prosecution (which I am all in favour of, although it should still be frowned upon in my opinion), to what we have now with it being launched into mainstream society as being right/normal/natural/equal (with those who quite rightly disagree being the ones who are frowned upon).

I would suggest that the former is (if anything) only a very limited harm (and then being mostly restricted to only those themselves involved), but the latter is seeking to impose itself onto everyone else regardless of beliefs or views in what can only be described as a truly dictatorial style with the usual bully boy style threats of comply or else!!!

Then there is the harm to democracy, the 'gay marriage' bill being brought in by Torys after Cameron specifically stating that he would not be pursuing this move a few days before being elected, and then brought it forward completely without mandate.
Then it only got voted through parliament with the backing of 'opposition' Labour MPs, as it was otherwise destined to be defeated!
How many times do we have a bill put forward by the govt, that is so unpopular with its own MPs that it can only pass with the support of the opposition?

You couldn't make it up!!!

The list of harm goes on....!

fantastic post .

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:55 am

VOD Christians did not invent marriage or did they even have such a wedding ceremony until hundreds of years later, as people were for the vast majority not married in a church, though some asked and received blessings.
Your faith is not the problem either, it is the hypocrisy of those of some Christians that stand by a view to discriminate gays whilst ignoring other commands to put to death children for example for and what is their heinous crime? Cursing their parents. So if you do not view the command to kill children who curse, of which not many Christians do, why would those that do not back views from the same chapter in the bible to back up their anti homosexual views.

Jesus never stated a thing on the matter and we know full well also he forgave people, just like the woman about to be stoned. So you have every right to not like the practice, but you do not have the right to deny them equal rights and equal rights is being they are able to marry.
Just because a faith or should I say some of its followers is at odds with homosexuality, that does not excuse its followers to seek to discriminate homosexuals. Of which we saw this yesterday when many Christians pulled out of a charity, because the charity allowed equal opportunity in its work place, married homosexuals. Now they thus stopped the money with due care for the starving children, but more to make a point out of denying a homosexual couple the right to work for a Christian Charity.

That shows how far and bad some within religion will go to discriminate and use influence to create further problems.


They have rights just like you but some seem intent of making them inferior and not have equal rights, ( which thy have been fighting for years to have)  based only on nothing more than ignorance.
The intent is then clear, they are not being accepted as equals by some in society who are prejudice and these people wish to deny equality and yet in the same breath moan about Gay marriage, when there never should have been any law to deny them being able to get married.

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:58 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Eilzel, not avoided, sexual activity between those of opposite sex is completely normal as it is part of normal attraction.

Ben, the 'brokeback' name was just a bit of fun, and I don't hate homosexuals, if anything I feel pity and feel sorry for them, much like I do with anyone who has an affliction. The nut houses are full of people who believe things that are completely bonkers and go against all things rational, and even when presented with indisputable facts and reality, they will still believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Homosexuals are similar in this respect, as it is undeniable that biological design dictates attraction to be between opposite sexes for the purpose of sexual coupling and reproduction, but they refuse to recognise this, and admit that maybe they have got it wrong. The 'I/we do it so it must be right/normal/natural' argument is flawed on so many levels. There are people out there who like to do all sorts of crazy things, this doesn't make it right/normal/natural, but using that same argument can seek to legitimise anything and everything, so where do you draw the line? I draw the line at abnormal and unnatural behaviour being promoted as normal and natural and people being forced to accept it as such 'or else!'. I believe that people should be free to do what they want (within reason, and that includes homosexuals doing what they want behind closed doors), and for people not be persecuted for their views or beliefs (this means homosexuals being free from persecution and also others who think homosexuality is wrong to be free to express that view!). And by the way, I find that picture completely repulsive! (Am I allowed to say that without being called 'homophobic'? As it seems to me that these days, you have to say you do 'like' it, to be considered as NOT 'homophobic'!!! Although, to the leftie, to say you liked to see a picture of 2 men kissing would imply you are homosexual, and to say you didn't like it then that means you are a 'homophobe', and you then have a 'hatred' for homosexuals which then also means you are really a secret homosexual too!!!)

Then there is the other talk of 'what harm is it doing?' (where shall we start?), under the pretence that 'it's just 2 people showing love and that is of course good' etc, going against all the precepts of what is normal/natural, right and proper, and completely ignoring the beliefs of everyone else!

What 2 consenting adults do in their own home behind closed doors is up to them, but there is a difference between allowing homosexuals to practice without persecution or prosecution (which I am all in favour of, although it should still be frowned upon in my opinion), to what we have now with it being launched into mainstream society as being right/normal/natural/equal (with those who quite rightly disagree being the ones who are frowned upon).

I would suggest that the former is (if anything) only a very limited harm (and then being mostly restricted to only those themselves involved), but the latter is seeking to impose itself onto everyone else regardless of beliefs or views in what can only be described as a truly dictatorial style with the usual bully boy style threats of comply or else!!!

Then there is the harm to democracy, the 'gay marriage' bill being brought in by Torys after Cameron specifically stating that he would not be pursuing this move a few days before being elected, and then brought it forward completely without mandate.
Then it only got voted through parliament with the backing of 'opposition' Labour MPs, as it was otherwise destined to be defeated!
How many times do we have a bill put forward by the govt, that is so unpopular with its own MPs that it can only pass with the support of the opposition?

You couldn't make it up!!!



The list of harm goes on....!

Possibly post of the year absolutely spot on..... Smile Smile 

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:15 am

So we know some posters can agree but not counter the counters done to his post.

Hey ho

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:27 am

VOD(original) wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Some gay people do believe in God. The problem is interpretation AND conviction Dibs. Imagine there is a gay man. He is born a Christian, let's say CofE; he knows what the Bible (written by men thousands of years ago) says. HOWEVER he knows he believes in God. And more so he knows that God loves him and wants him to be happy with his partner. You cannot say for certain this man is not right. The man may believe he has spoken to God through prayer and that through prayer God answered him

(As a side; I would obviously find such a story unquestionable bullshit- but as a believer yourself you will have a harder time rebuking this than I do)...

This sort of thing has happened before. With divorce for instance. Whole institutions as laid down in scripture torn apart by the whims of religious men. Further; since the Bible was written by men and much of its edicts you yourself discard now, it is not beyond reasonable than God can reveal (in the minds of believers) a new truth more appropriate for the time.

If a gay man adamantly believes in God and believer his God would want him happily married to his partner then there are no real strong grounds you can tell him he is wrong.

Now I don't believe in God; nor do I want or intend to get married in a church. But I'm not talking about myself here; I'm simply giving you the view of a hypothetical gay man- though I did once watch a young man give a long speech to a Methodist congregation on this subject that was well recieved.

Lez i know some gay people believe in God and want to get married in the church and if their church will marry them then hallelujah , but i think Ben's accusation that i am sticking my nose into others business is out of order i haven't criticized gays i simply said that from a biblical view God says it is a sin as any other sin and everyone sins so who am i to judge them , all i know is what scripture says and as i am not God i won't judge others ,but i see i am being judged by Ben for my faith which isn't hurting anyone because the simple answer is , if gays believe in God and their church will marry them then that's up to the vicar and he knows the scriptures and will have to explain to God how he came to that decision .

@Ben this is a debate forum to debate topics are you another person who disagrees with freedom of speech , why did you start a forum did you expect everyone to join and just agree with you .

I was really getting to your point about most gay not believing in God; which I don't think anyone knows is true or not but I think most likely more gay people believe in some God rather than no God. I was also simply explaining how many, including straight vicars, may have conviction that God is ok with gay marriage- many believe God reveals himself to them in thought- certainly a lot of Biblical scripture is totally ignored even by the clergy in todays world.

I think Ben is more likely talking of a lot of Christians, especially in the USA, in general interfering in gay rights issues. I mean imagine we had had a referendum on this issue- how would you have voted?

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:30 am

The religious nuts in America do seem to be a little extreme.

Thankfully we don't have that here (yet).

I think JD had a good point - men aren't going to get bummed by a lady (unless you ask nicely) - but a man?? Men are more aggressive too - men like the demure, ladylike woman don't they?

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:33 am

BigAndy9 wrote:The religious nuts in America do seem to be a little extreme.

Thankfully we don't have that here (yet).

I think JD had a good point - men aren't going to get bummed by a lady (unless you ask nicely) - but a man??  Men are more aggressive too - men like the demure, ladylike woman don't they?

Haha, well I've never had assertions of being aggressive made on me- but you do highlight an interesting point here BigA- is a factor in homophobic attitudes some peculiar fear by Joey Hetero of being raped by sweet speaking gay bloke  Wink 

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:33 am

Eilzel wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:

Lez i know some gay people believe in God and want to get married in the church and if their church will marry them then hallelujah , but i think Ben's accusation that i am sticking my nose into others business is out of order i haven't criticized gays i simply said that from a biblical view God says it is a sin as any other sin and everyone sins so who am i to judge them , all i know is what scripture says and as i am not God i won't judge others ,but i see i am being judged by Ben for my faith which isn't hurting anyone because the simple answer is , if gays believe in God and their church will marry them then that's up to the vicar and he knows the scriptures and will have to explain to God how he came to that decision .

@Ben this is a debate forum to debate topics are you another person who disagrees with freedom of speech , why did you start a forum did you expect everyone to join and just agree with you .

I was really getting to your point about most gay not believing in God; which I don't think anyone knows is true or not but I think most likely more gay people believe in some God rather than no God. I was also simply explaining how many, including straight vicars, may have conviction that God is ok with gay marriage- many believe God reveals himself to them in thought- certainly a lot of Biblical scripture is totally ignored even by the clergy in todays world.

I think Ben is more likely talking of a lot of Christians, especially in the USA, in general interfering in gay rights issues. I mean imagine we had had a referendum on this issue- how would you have voted?

it's hard to get a representation of such a tiny minority of people and how would you word the question...

if they read their bible they will see clearly what God says about homosexuality and God's plan for marriage..

if they wish to delude themselves that is entirely up to them..

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:35 am

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

I was really getting to your point about most gay not believing in God; which I don't think anyone knows is true or not but I think most likely more gay people believe in some God rather than no God. I was also simply explaining how many, including straight vicars, may have conviction that God is ok with gay marriage- many believe God reveals himself to them in thought- certainly a lot of Biblical scripture is totally ignored even by the clergy in todays world.

I think Ben is more likely talking of a lot of Christians, especially in the USA, in general interfering in gay rights issues. I mean imagine we had had a referendum on this issue- how would you have voted?

it's hard to get a representation of such a tiny minority of people and how would you word the question...

if they read their bible they will see clearly what God says about homosexuality and God's plan for marriage..

if they wish to delude themselves that is entirely up to them..

God opposes fornication too GIG; people wearing clothes of mixed fibres; the consuming of shell fish; divorce; working Sundays- I don't think too many people pay much attention to those parts of the Bible thesedays GIG  Cool 

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:39 am

Eilzel wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

it's hard to get a representation of such a tiny minority of people and how would you word the question...

if they read their bible they will see clearly what God says about homosexuality and God's plan for marriage..

if they wish to delude themselves that is entirely up to them..

God opposes fornication too GIG; people wearing clothes of mixed fibres; the consuming of shell fish; divorce; working Sundays- I don't think too many people pay much attention to those parts of the Bible thesedays GIG  Cool 

Lol and tha's your best defence...good look with that... Smile 

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:40 am

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

God opposes fornication too GIG; people wearing clothes of mixed fibres; the consuming of shell fish; divorce; working Sundays- I don't think too many people pay much attention to those parts of the Bible thesedays GIG  Cool 

Lol and tha's your best defence...good look with that... Smile 

Defense of what? I was explaining modern religious ignorance of parts of scripture. Care to explain your comments?

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:42 am

Eilzel wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

Lol and tha's your best defence...good look with that... Smile 

Defense of what? I was explaining modern religious ignorance of parts of scripture. Care to explain your comments?

defence of deliberate misrepresentation of Gods word ...lol

and of course your ignorance of God's word but hey why would you want to know the truth when it doesn't suit you... Smile 

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:42 am

Eilzel wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

it's hard to get a representation of such a tiny minority of people and how would you word the question...

if they read their bible they will see clearly what God says about homosexuality and God's plan for marriage..

if they wish to delude themselves that is entirely up to them..

God opposes fornication too GIG; people wearing clothes of mixed fibres; the consuming of shell fish; divorce; working Sundays- I don't think too many people pay much attention to those parts of the Bible thesedays GIG  Cool 

Very true and good points - I remember the good old days of nothing being open on a Sunday.

Sunday dinner with Radio 1 on then on to the settee to watch Formula 1  Smile 

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:50 am

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

Defense of what? I was explaining modern religious ignorance of parts of scripture. Care to explain your comments?

defence of deliberate misrepresentation of Gods word ...lol

and of course your ignorance of God's word but hey why would you want to know the truth when it doesn't suit you... Smile 

I am not defending them- to me they believe as much a load of bull as you do. I am simply presenting the facts. And since you cannot claim God has not spoken to any individual (do you believe God can do this btw?) then your opposition becomes weak.

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