Quack Doctor who claimed alkali kills cancer arrested

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:31 am

First topic message reminder :

Cancer quack Robert O. Young is arrested and arraigned.

One of the most egregiously practicing non-physicians who claim to be able to cure cancer that I’ve ever encountered was arrested—yes, arrested!—and arraigned on criminal charges. I’m referring to “Dr. Alkaline” himself, he of the pH Miracle Living program and his Articles of Health blog, “Dr.” Robert O. Young.

Itnow strikes me as an excellent time to revisit, review, and discuss what sorts of pseudoscience and quackery Young advocates to treat cancer and—as is the case with so many dubious practitioners—multiple other serious diseases, such as lupus, type I diabetes (you read that right, not type II diabetes), metastatic prostate cancer, and cancer in general. (Not surprisingly, Young is also quite antivaccine, publishing anecdotes from parents who believe their child is “vaccine damaged” and appeals to support antivaccine groups like the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC).) Let’s take a look at what happened last week and why, given the law in California, I’m not sure that this case will be the slam dunk we’d all like it to be. The law in California could easily make it a difficult task for the prosecutor to secure a conviction, much less a 15 year sentence. First, however, for those who are not familiar with Dr. Young, it’s important to provide a little primer on who he is, what he does, and why I am so outraged that he’s been allowed to continue to practice for more than 20 years.

The disturbing saga of “Dr.” Robert O. Young

Robert O. Young is pretty famous as far as “alternative medicine” practitioners go, spawning acolytes like Errol Denton who’s been in a spot of similar legal trouble lately, who trained under Young and remains an admirer. Although I had heard of Young before and written about him more in an amusing than outraged manner, I really first became aware of Young through the case of a woman with breast cancer named Kim Tinkham. Not entirely coincidentally, Tinkham briefly became famous back in 2008 after having appeared on Oprah Winfrey’s daytime talk show in the context of her belief in The Secret, that mystical, magical, childish belief system that the universe will bring you what you want if you only want it badly enough. It’s a system of belief that goes far beyond the reasonable concept that people who want something badly enough will be more likely to try to obtain it and thus more likely to get it and into the realm of wish fulfillment, where “wishing makes it so,” a concept that is the central dogma of alternative medicine. At the time, she had recently been diagnosed with breast cancer, described as stage III, and was being urged to undergo surgery. She refused. In 2007, Tinkham appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show.

In this interview, Kim Tinkham attributes her decision to “heal herself” to The Secret. Oprah, to her credit, was horrified and even called Tinkham “irresponsible” for not taking advantage of modern medicine. It turns out that the “alternative” practitioner she somehow found was Robert O. Young. It also unfortunately turns out that she died of her disease three years ago, losing her battle with breast cancer. In the interim, however, she did testimonials for Young, even going so far as to agree to appear in an hour-long interview with him.

Being a cancer surgeon and researcher, naturally I tend to write about cancer a lot more than other areas of medicine and science. It’s what I know best.  Over the weekend I heard some truly awesome news. One of the most egregiously practicing non-physicians who claim to be able to cure cancer that I’ve ever encountered was arrested—yes, arrested!—and arraigned on criminal charges. I’m referring to “Dr. Alkaline” himself, he of the pH Miracle Living program and his Articles of Health blog, “Dr.” Robert O. Young.

I’ve mentioned Robert O. Young from time to time on this blog, but it’s been at least a couple of years since I’ve discussed him other than in passing. Consequently, now strikes me as an excellent time to revisit, review, and discuss what sorts of pseudoscience and quackery Young advocates to treat cancer and—as is the case with so many dubious practitioners—multiple other serious diseases, such as lupus, type I diabetes (you read that right, not type II diabetes), metastatic prostate cancer, and cancer in general. (Not surprisingly, Young is also quite antivaccine, publishing anecdotes from parents who believe their child is “vaccine damaged” and appeals to support antivaccine groups like the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC).) Let’s take a look at what happened last week and why, given the law in California, I’m not sure that this case will be the slam dunk we’d all like it to be. The law in California could easily make it a difficult task for the prosecutor to secure a conviction, much less a 15 year sentence. First, however, for those who are not familiar with Dr. Young, it’s important to provide a little primer on who he is, what he does, and why I am so outraged that he’s been allowed to continue to practice for more than 20 years.

The disturbing saga of “Dr.” Robert O. Young

Robert O. Young is pretty famous as far as “alternative medicine” practitioners go, spawning acolytes like Errol Denton who’s been in a spot of similar legal trouble lately, who trained under Young and remains an admirer. Although I had heard of Young before and written about him more in an amusing than outraged manner, I really first became aware of Young through the case of a woman with breast cancer named Kim Tinkham. Not entirely coincidentally, Tinkham briefly became famous back in 2008 after having appeared on Oprah Winfrey’s daytime talk show in the context of her belief in The Secret, that mystical, magical, childish belief system that the universe will bring you what you want if you only want it badly enough. It’s a system of belief that goes far beyond the reasonable concept that people who want something badly enough will be more likely to try to obtain it and thus more likely to get it and into the realm of wish fulfillment, where “wishing makes it so,” a concept that is the central dogma of alternative medicine. At the time, she had recently been diagnosed with breast cancer, described as stage III, and was being urged to undergo surgery. She refused. In 2007, Tinkham appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show:

In this interview, Kim Tinkham attributes her decision to “heal herself” to The Secret. Oprah, to her credit, was horrified and even called Tinkham “irresponsible” for not taking advantage of modern medicine. It turns out that the “alternative” practitioner she somehow found was Robert O. Young. It also unfortunately turns out that she died of her disease three years ago, losing her battle with breast cancer. In the interim, however, she did testimonials for Young, even going so far as to agree to appear in an hour-long interview with him (now thrown down the memory hole, although I captured a copy of all six ten-minute segments of it for posterity and only wish I could put them back up on YouTube without a DMCA takedown notice and even potentially copyright charge). In any case, Tinkham is only one of Young’s victims, and she was fortunate enough to have survived longer than I would have guessed initially.

So who is “Dr.” Robert O. Young? Let’s take a look at his claimed credentials.

As Dr. Stephen Barrett notes, two of Young’s doctoral degrees were received from diploma mills and that Robert Bradford, who was convicted of laetrile smuggling in the 1970s didn’t, even have a college degree. Also, Clayton College of Natural Health was a nonaccredited correspondence school that taught a panoply of quackery. Not long after the state of Alabama began requiring accreditation for license renewal, the Clayton College of Natural Health closed in 2010. As Dr. Barrett drolly notes, the Clayton College of Natural Health did (and does) serve one good purpose, “Its credentials are a reliable sign of someone not to consult for advice.” No kidding. And, even though he claims to have an ND degree, the school from which he obtained it was not accredited, which means that Young’s ND degree is even more worthless than an ND from an “accredited” college of naturopathic medicine, as hard as to believe that’s possible. As The Eleventh Doctor would say, “Basically… run.”

But what about cancer? This is what Young claims to be able to treat is most commonly associated with. I think it’s helpful to read this particular manifesto he wrote a few years ago that sums up his view of cancer, What Is The Cause of Cancer? Is There A Cure? Then read my deconstruction from nearly seven years ago. The sheer level of quackery encompassed in Young’s ideas hurts my neurons. To him, cancer is not a mass of cells that have somehow freed themselves from the normal homeostatic controls that keep human cells differentiated, happy, and not growing out of control. To young, cancer is a “poisonous acidic liquid. But he’s not even consistent, because elsewhere he refers to cancer as “cell that has been spoiled or poisoned by metabolic or gastrointestinal acids” and the tumor mass as “body’s protective mechanism to encapsulate spoiled or poisoned cells from excess acid that has not been properly eliminated through urination, perspiration, defecation or respiration” and the “body’s solution to protect healthy cells and tissues.” These concepts, which aren’t even self-consistent in many areas, are so wrong on so many levels that it would take enormous amounts of verbiage to deconstruct them again.

Young is a perfect example of one aspect of quacks that distinguishes them from practitioners of science-based medicine. Science-based medicine recognizes the complexity of disease; it delves into that complexity, trying to make sense out of it and use that knowledge to develop better treatments for disease. Quacks choose to make sense of disease another way, and that way would be insulting to disease, if disease had feelings, in that they often tend to boil all disease down to one cause or a handful of tightly related causes. I’ve often wondered why. It’s more than just the fact that they don’t understand the science behind disease. After all, Young appears to understand acid-base science, but he only understands it at a very superficial level, demonstrating once again that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. What I end up wondering again and again is whether Young actually believes this nonsense. I suppose that on one level it doesn’t really matter. It continues to harm patients and it needs to be stopped.

Here are some key observations that came immediately to mind. First, Robert O. Young appears to be filthy rich from his business endeavors, so much so that he’s considered a flight risk because of his wealth and the numerous facilities around the world where he promotes his program. It’s mentioned elsewhere in the story that one patient paid $120,000 for treatments at his ranch. In the news report, it states that people seeking “treatment” at Young’s ranch pay up to $2,495 a night to stay there, with an image superimposed of a a price list ranging from $1,295 to $2,495 a night. There are top flight hotels in big cities that don’t charge that much for their luxury suites.

According to the Medical Board of California, here’s how the law ultimately caught up with “Dr.” Young:

   The Medical Board worked in conjunction with the San Diego District Attorney’s Office after an undercover investigator infiltrated Young’s avocado ranch where he was illegally treating patients. Both the Medical Board’s investigator and an investigator from the San Diego District Attorney’s Office were diagnosed with diseases and offered very pricy treatments. Many of Young’s patients were actually chronically ill and spent sums of up to $50,000 for Young’s treatment.

   Young is the author of the “pH Miracle,” a diet designed to “alkalinize the body. However, Young took it a step too far when he went beyond advocating dietary changes and began using intravenous treatments on patients housed at his avocado ranch in Valley Center.

So, basically, the law did an undercover sting operation and caught Young making bogus diagnoses and offering treatments for them. The sad thing to me, however, is the strong implication that if Young had advocated only dietary changes to treat cancer, he wouldn’t have gotten in trouble even though there is no evidence that dietary changes can cure any cancer. That is the state the law regulating medical practice, not just in California, but in many states.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/01/27/cancer-quack-robert-o-young-is-arrested-and-arraigned-but-will-he-be-convicted/

Phrased it as it was very long.   I hope this man is put away for a very long time.

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Post by Stephenmarra on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:18 pm

Guest wrote:Thank you Joy but it is not worth it, I am not allowed an opinion and now abused in the worst possible way, thanks Eddie I shall now leave if you think this of me


Good bye

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:21 pm

Joy Division wrote:Eddie, it's not my business, but I honestly don't think Dodge has not  meant to offend or hurt you, i think he just finds it difficult to comprehend medical staff being able to tell you that chemo had been the actual cause of death..
Your a young woman who has lost the main man in her life since you were a baby...it doesn't come much more sad or hard a loss as that.

But please Eddie, a Didge has not disbelieved what you said just to hurt you , it's just that he couldn't see that being told to you...that does not mean that wasn't what you were told..and after reading further what you said about it, I totally believe you as you have no reason to lie about it..and as if you would anyway,

I kindly ask you Eddie if you can forgive Didge, I honestly don't think he said that for the wrong reasons..I'm not arse crawling for anyone here, I just would not like to see two old school posters fall out , I ask you kindly to realise his reasons for doubting what you said and that it was not done out of malice.

JDxx

Didge is an egotistical prick. Bet I'm not the first to say so or think it.

JD, I know what the oncologist said to me and my mother.
I don't need for anyone else to believe me, you know why?
Because I am not didge and I don't need to win.
I've defended him so many times when people have said how horrible he is and how rude he is and arrogant.


Hope he gets shagged tonight. Perhaps he'll have chilled out by tomorrow.
Poor sod.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:21 pm

boy oh boy, if you want to know about being abused for your opinion I could write a book... Smile 

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:22 pm

And off he goes AGAIN!
Again. And again. And again.

And why make a big deal out if it???
I'll tell you why; EGO!!!!!
And why pm people about it???
I'll tell you why: EGO

Who voted him for speaker of the house?
Jesus, that guy could row with the fucking mirror.


Last edited by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:24 pm

JD, he was asked by many people to stop and refused to. He was also wrong about chemo but refused to admit it. His choice and Eddie has every right to be bloody pissed off with him. He knew he was upsetting her and carried.

Perhaps when he comes back he will apologise to her.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:25 pm

eddie wrote:cheers 

Kiss my armpits. HAHAHAHAHA

Burrrr-gerrrr

did you put deodorant on  lol! 

loving it edds x

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:26 pm

Eddie is understandably very upset as the topic involves her father..and quote right too...

But this did not have to happen , a serious as the issue is, it came down to Didge not believing Eddie when she was told by the oncologist the cause of her fathers passing.

This is extremely upsetting for Eddie and I agree that a Didge should have used lighter words in his opinion of not believing what the oncologist told her.

And although Eds is hurt and fuming, she probably knows deep, deep down that Didge did not mean to hurt or upset her, Didge could have been more tactful.

I just hope Didge comes back and that him and Eddie can sort this out between them.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:26 pm

eddie wrote:And off he goes AGAIN!
Again. And again. And again.

And why make a big deal out if it???
I'll tell you why; EGO!!!!!
And why pm people about it???
I'll tell you why: EGO

Who voted him for speaker of the house?  
Jesus, that guy could row with the fucking mirror.
eddie your invited to my Christmas party you have me in hysterics here girl  ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: 

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:26 pm

eddie wrote:And off he goes AGAIN!
Again. And again. And again.

And why make a big deal out if it???
I'll tell you why; EGO!!!!!
And why pm people about it???
I'll tell you why: EGO

Who voted him for speaker of the house?  
Jesus, that guy could row with the fucking mirror.

Forgot to say....

 cheers 


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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:27 pm

Sassy wrote:JD, he was asked by many people to stop and refused to.   He was also wrong about chemo but refused to admit it.   His choice and Eddie has every right to be bloody pissed off with him.   He knew he was upsetting her and carried.

Perhaps when he comes back he will apologise to her.

Well I hope so Sassy, he certainly could have been more tactful, but I don't want to see either leave.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:27 pm

eddie wrote:
eddie wrote:And off he goes AGAIN!
Again. And again. And again.

And why make a big deal out if it???
I'll tell you why; EGO!!!!!
And why pm people about it???
I'll tell you why: EGO

Who voted him for speaker of the house?  
Jesus, that guy could row with the fucking mirror.

Forgot to say....

 cheers 





 lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! 

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:30 pm

Joy Division wrote:Eddie is understandably very upset as the topic involves her father..and quote right too...

But this did not have to happen , a serious as the issue is,  it came down to Didge not believing Eddie when she was told by the oncologist the cause of her fathers passing.

This is extremely upsetting for Eddie and I agree that a Didge should have used lighter words in his opinion of not believing what the oncologist told her.

And although Eds is hurt and fuming, she probably knows deep, deep down that Didge did not mean to hurt or upset her, Didge could have been more tactful.

I just hope Didge comes back and that him and Eddie can sort this out between them.

Yeah blah blah love love chatter chatter

He called me a liar about my own fathers death
He's. A. Prick.

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:32 pm

Sassy wrote:JD, he was asked by many people to stop and refused to.   He was also wrong about chemo but refused to admit it.   His choice and Eddie has every right to be bloody pissed off with him.   He knew he was upsetting her and carried.

Perhaps when he comes back he will apologise to her.

I don't even get why he'd find it so hard to believe???? Does he think doctors don't speak compassionately and honestly??

If that's the case he has a lower opinion of them than he makes out.

Oh! I think that may make him a...... Liar???

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:33 pm

and so say all of us  cheers cheers 

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:33 pm

Joy Division wrote:
Sassy wrote:JD, he was asked by many people to stop and refused to.   He was also wrong about chemo but refused to admit it.   His choice and Eddie has every right to be bloody pissed off with him.   He knew he was upsetting her and carried.

Perhaps when he comes back he will apologise to her.

Well I hope so Sassy, he certainly could have been more tactful, but I don't want to see either leave.

How does one tell someone they're lying about their father's death in a tactful manner?

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:38 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

Well I hope so Sassy, he certainly could have been more tactful, but I don't want to see either leave.

How does one tell someone they're lying about their father's death in a tactful manner?

See Ragga, I'd never presume someone was lying over a situation they told me about?
Perhaps he lies.

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Post by Stephenmarra on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:38 pm

eddie wrote:
Joy Division wrote:Eddie is understandably very upset as the topic involves her father..and quote right too...

But this did not have to happen , a serious as the issue is,  it came down to Didge not believing Eddie when she was told by the oncologist the cause of her fathers passing.

This is extremely upsetting for Eddie and I agree that a Didge should have used lighter words in his opinion of not believing what the oncologist told her.

And although Eds is hurt and fuming, she probably knows deep, deep down that Didge did not mean to hurt or upset her, Didge could have been more tactful.

I just hope Didge comes back and that him and Eddie can sort this out between them.

Yeah blah blah love love chatter chatter

He called me a liar about my own fathers death
He's. A. Prick.

Aye ! but one wonders if Didge realises what he has posted is so wrong ? If not, he is one rather sick and sad puppy.
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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:38 pm

Well, I would have rather he stayed and apologised, but there you go.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:42 pm

agree sassy

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:45 pm

VOD(original) wrote:agree sassy

To be honest VOD, after what you said to me, I don't think you a GIG have a leg to stand on in this argument, this is a drop in the ocean in comparison. And you and he have never apologised, just insisted that you were being abused a well  Rolling Eyes 

Now, I have a feeling you are trying to make up for it, but if you are, an apology would go an awful long way.

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Post by Stephenmarra on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:48 pm

VOD(original) wrote:agree sassy
Thurded, hate to say it but he would be a miss to the forum. Shocked
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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:51 pm

Stephenmarra wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:agree sassy
Thurded, hate to say it but he would be a miss to the forum. Shocked

Absolutely.
I never wanted nor asked him to leave.

But he is getting rude, arrogant and extremely patronising toward posters.

And I don't want an apology tbh.
I find apologies worthless.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:52 pm

Sassy wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:agree sassy

To be honest VOD, after what you said to me, I don't think you a GIG have a leg to stand on in this argument, this is a drop in the ocean in comparison.   And you and he have never apologised, just insisted that you were being abused a well  Rolling Eyes 

Now, I have a feeling you are trying to make up for it, but if you are, an apology would go an awful long way.

you are right sassy , i think we apologized on ado but it didn't go down very well and i understand why , but what i said was out of order and very wrong and so i sincerely apologize to you for the hurt i caused you i can only offer my apology and hope it means something to you i can do no more , and i sincerely hope your test result tomorrow is positive and i mean that from the bottom of my heart .

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:54 pm

VOD(original) wrote:
Sassy wrote:

To be honest VOD, after what you said to me, I don't think you a GIG have a leg to stand on in this argument, this is a drop in the ocean in comparison.   And you and he have never apologised, just insisted that you were being abused a well  Rolling Eyes 

Now, I have a feeling you are trying to make up for it, but if you are, an apology would go an awful long way.

you are right sassy , i think we apologized on ado but it didn't go down very well and i understand why , but what i said was out of order and very wrong and so i sincerely apologize to you for the hurt i caused you i can only offer my apology and hope it means something to you i can do no more , and i sincerely hope your test result tomorrow is positive and i mean that from the bottom of my heart .

Thank you VOD, apology accepted, lets close the chapter.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:27 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
and the guys who make millions out of chemo are living fine and the poor sods who take the chemo die..

 Mad 

THE scumbag frauds like you, your slovenly strife DVO, and your dumbo mates Baggs' and Tess' are responsible for far more deaths and suffering than any genuine cancer doctors..
You brave little keyboard warriors.. You spineless and deceitful scam_artists.    ::slap::

Do you mean me? How am I responsible for loads of deaths?

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:
 Mad 

THE scumbag frauds like you, your slovenly strife DVO, and your dumbo mates Baggs' and Tess' are responsible for far more deaths and suffering than any genuine cancer doctors..
You brave little keyboard warriors.. You spineless and deceitful scam_artists.    ::slap::

Do you mean me? How am I responsible for loads of deaths?

He just waffles. He needs some syrup over him.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:35 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Do you mean me? How am I responsible for loads of deaths?

He just waffles. He needs some syrup over him.

He just makes these random accusations against me for no apparent reason.  Laughing 

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:24 pm

Well didge left but is now posting on flap about the same thing.
Stupid fucking egotistical prick.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:31 pm

eddie wrote:Well didge left but is now posting on flap about the same thing.
Stupid fucking egotistical prick.

he's nothing if not persistent...

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:45 pm

eddie wrote:Well didge left but is now posting on flap about the same thing.
Stupid fucking egotistical prick.

About you?

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:01 pm

Sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:Well didge left but is now posting on flap about the same thing.
Stupid fucking egotistical prick.

About you?

Haha of course.
I did mention it but he logged on and shouted the same shit.

Costa backed me, and she doesn't even like me lol
Keith did too.

He thinks I'm lying because I don't agree with chemo! But that's why he's stupid!
I don't agree with chemo BECAUSE of what happened!!!

I even said this, way back, on another thread.

Oh well.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:09 pm

Well i agree with chemo (obviously lol) but think him calling you a liar about it is just outrageous.

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:13 pm

Sassy wrote:Well i agree with chemo (obviously lol) but think him calling you a liar about it is just outrageous.

He doesn't understand that we developed a relationship with her so she was human when she spoke to us.
I don't understand why he's behaved this way.

I've just read on flap he's coming back here now so I'm going to try and ignore the prick.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:15 pm

Best idea, if he does I hope he apologies.

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:19 pm



Sassy wrote:Best idea, if he does I hope he apologies.

No he's not. He's coming back to "give me responses to my poor vindictive posts"  Shocked 

Can't wait  Rolling Eyes 

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:20 pm

Now that really is pathetic. And quite nasty.

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:23 pm

Sassy wrote:Now that really is pathetic.   And quite nasty.

Well. We shall see.
I actually and honestly sass, don't understand why he thinks I'm lying???? I can't see it?

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:31 pm

Because Didge can't deal with things that undermine what he says. He can't see that there are things for and against everything, so he won't even look at something that undermines his argument. The fact is, if he really knew about chemo, it doesn't undermine the argument. Chemo kills any cells that are dividing, good and bad. Cancer cells divide and divide again very quickly, so it is going to get more cancer cells than good cells. But sometimes the body can't cope with that, especially if it effects cells in the main organs. You take it and hope that your body is strong enough to cope and sometimes it's not, so the chemo kills you faster than the cancer, but you'd die anyway from the cancer, so you take that chance. You wouldn't live without it, it just gives you a chance, and the stronger you are, the more of a chance it gives you.

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:39 pm

Sassy wrote:Because Didge can't deal with things that undermine what he says.   He can't see that there are things for and against everything, so he won't even look at something that undermines his argument.   The fact is, if he really knew about chemo, it doesn't undermine the argument.   Chemo kills any cells that are dividing, good and bad.  Cancer cells divide and divide again very quickly, so it is going to get more cancer cells than good cells.   But sometimes the body can't cope with that, especially if it effects cells in the main organs.   You take it and hope that your body is strong enough to cope and sometimes it's not, so the chemo kills you faster than the cancer, but you'd die anyway from the cancer, so you take that chance.   You wouldn't live without it, it just gives you a chance, and the stronger you are, the more of a chance it gives you.  

That isn't what he's disputing though sass.
He thinks because I was saying that I'd give alternative remedies a chance, (and I never said I wouldn't have chemo, only that I might not), that I've made up this lie to prove that a doctor has admitted that chemo "killed" my dad.
We all know that if he'd never had cancer he'd never have had the chemo!! So on his death certificate it would say "Cause of death - Cancer"
Obviously!!!!!!

But the oncologist did say that, effectively, it was the chemo that caused his death.

This is why I am a little uncertain about chemo.

He is very narrow minded and blinkered. He doesn't see a whole picture and he doesn't understand me at all.

I will,never feel the same about him again, unfortunately.
I have been warned about his ways and never accepted it.

Never mind. We learn and we move on.
I have nothing to prove as most her have testified to.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:48 pm

Well have to say Eddie, as soon as I knew what I had I researched and researched and researched, and there are some particularly good sites, one by a scientist in America who was married to a man who had the very worst form of CLL (CLL Topics) and she worked on behalf of people with CLL, and a blog by Professor Terry Hamblin who was the top CLL specialist in the country and then got CLL himself. Both those point out 'alternatives' that can help and recommend them, but that is all they can do, help. The only thing that can halt it for a while (it's the only cancer that has no cure) is chemo. I've had the mildest, but if in the future I need something stronger I'll have it.

My ex last year had a very nasty cancer (rectal) and was in a coma after the op, then had to have chemo and radiotherapy. At the time it was awful, but he now has his life back and he had been given three months to live.

I might use alternatives to help, but I would never turn down chemo.

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