Quack Doctor who claimed alkali kills cancer arrested

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:31 am

First topic message reminder :

Cancer quack Robert O. Young is arrested and arraigned.

One of the most egregiously practicing non-physicians who claim to be able to cure cancer that I’ve ever encountered was arrested—yes, arrested!—and arraigned on criminal charges. I’m referring to “Dr. Alkaline” himself, he of the pH Miracle Living program and his Articles of Health blog, “Dr.” Robert O. Young.

Itnow strikes me as an excellent time to revisit, review, and discuss what sorts of pseudoscience and quackery Young advocates to treat cancer and—as is the case with so many dubious practitioners—multiple other serious diseases, such as lupus, type I diabetes (you read that right, not type II diabetes), metastatic prostate cancer, and cancer in general. (Not surprisingly, Young is also quite antivaccine, publishing anecdotes from parents who believe their child is “vaccine damaged” and appeals to support antivaccine groups like the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC).) Let’s take a look at what happened last week and why, given the law in California, I’m not sure that this case will be the slam dunk we’d all like it to be. The law in California could easily make it a difficult task for the prosecutor to secure a conviction, much less a 15 year sentence. First, however, for those who are not familiar with Dr. Young, it’s important to provide a little primer on who he is, what he does, and why I am so outraged that he’s been allowed to continue to practice for more than 20 years.

The disturbing saga of “Dr.” Robert O. Young

Robert O. Young is pretty famous as far as “alternative medicine” practitioners go, spawning acolytes like Errol Denton who’s been in a spot of similar legal trouble lately, who trained under Young and remains an admirer. Although I had heard of Young before and written about him more in an amusing than outraged manner, I really first became aware of Young through the case of a woman with breast cancer named Kim Tinkham. Not entirely coincidentally, Tinkham briefly became famous back in 2008 after having appeared on Oprah Winfrey’s daytime talk show in the context of her belief in The Secret, that mystical, magical, childish belief system that the universe will bring you what you want if you only want it badly enough. It’s a system of belief that goes far beyond the reasonable concept that people who want something badly enough will be more likely to try to obtain it and thus more likely to get it and into the realm of wish fulfillment, where “wishing makes it so,” a concept that is the central dogma of alternative medicine. At the time, she had recently been diagnosed with breast cancer, described as stage III, and was being urged to undergo surgery. She refused. In 2007, Tinkham appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show.

In this interview, Kim Tinkham attributes her decision to “heal herself” to The Secret. Oprah, to her credit, was horrified and even called Tinkham “irresponsible” for not taking advantage of modern medicine. It turns out that the “alternative” practitioner she somehow found was Robert O. Young. It also unfortunately turns out that she died of her disease three years ago, losing her battle with breast cancer. In the interim, however, she did testimonials for Young, even going so far as to agree to appear in an hour-long interview with him.

Being a cancer surgeon and researcher, naturally I tend to write about cancer a lot more than other areas of medicine and science. It’s what I know best.  Over the weekend I heard some truly awesome news. One of the most egregiously practicing non-physicians who claim to be able to cure cancer that I’ve ever encountered was arrested—yes, arrested!—and arraigned on criminal charges. I’m referring to “Dr. Alkaline” himself, he of the pH Miracle Living program and his Articles of Health blog, “Dr.” Robert O. Young.

I’ve mentioned Robert O. Young from time to time on this blog, but it’s been at least a couple of years since I’ve discussed him other than in passing. Consequently, now strikes me as an excellent time to revisit, review, and discuss what sorts of pseudoscience and quackery Young advocates to treat cancer and—as is the case with so many dubious practitioners—multiple other serious diseases, such as lupus, type I diabetes (you read that right, not type II diabetes), metastatic prostate cancer, and cancer in general. (Not surprisingly, Young is also quite antivaccine, publishing anecdotes from parents who believe their child is “vaccine damaged” and appeals to support antivaccine groups like the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC).) Let’s take a look at what happened last week and why, given the law in California, I’m not sure that this case will be the slam dunk we’d all like it to be. The law in California could easily make it a difficult task for the prosecutor to secure a conviction, much less a 15 year sentence. First, however, for those who are not familiar with Dr. Young, it’s important to provide a little primer on who he is, what he does, and why I am so outraged that he’s been allowed to continue to practice for more than 20 years.

The disturbing saga of “Dr.” Robert O. Young

Robert O. Young is pretty famous as far as “alternative medicine” practitioners go, spawning acolytes like Errol Denton who’s been in a spot of similar legal trouble lately, who trained under Young and remains an admirer. Although I had heard of Young before and written about him more in an amusing than outraged manner, I really first became aware of Young through the case of a woman with breast cancer named Kim Tinkham. Not entirely coincidentally, Tinkham briefly became famous back in 2008 after having appeared on Oprah Winfrey’s daytime talk show in the context of her belief in The Secret, that mystical, magical, childish belief system that the universe will bring you what you want if you only want it badly enough. It’s a system of belief that goes far beyond the reasonable concept that people who want something badly enough will be more likely to try to obtain it and thus more likely to get it and into the realm of wish fulfillment, where “wishing makes it so,” a concept that is the central dogma of alternative medicine. At the time, she had recently been diagnosed with breast cancer, described as stage III, and was being urged to undergo surgery. She refused. In 2007, Tinkham appeared on The Oprah Winfrey Show:

In this interview, Kim Tinkham attributes her decision to “heal herself” to The Secret. Oprah, to her credit, was horrified and even called Tinkham “irresponsible” for not taking advantage of modern medicine. It turns out that the “alternative” practitioner she somehow found was Robert O. Young. It also unfortunately turns out that she died of her disease three years ago, losing her battle with breast cancer. In the interim, however, she did testimonials for Young, even going so far as to agree to appear in an hour-long interview with him (now thrown down the memory hole, although I captured a copy of all six ten-minute segments of it for posterity and only wish I could put them back up on YouTube without a DMCA takedown notice and even potentially copyright charge). In any case, Tinkham is only one of Young’s victims, and she was fortunate enough to have survived longer than I would have guessed initially.

So who is “Dr.” Robert O. Young? Let’s take a look at his claimed credentials.

As Dr. Stephen Barrett notes, two of Young’s doctoral degrees were received from diploma mills and that Robert Bradford, who was convicted of laetrile smuggling in the 1970s didn’t, even have a college degree. Also, Clayton College of Natural Health was a nonaccredited correspondence school that taught a panoply of quackery. Not long after the state of Alabama began requiring accreditation for license renewal, the Clayton College of Natural Health closed in 2010. As Dr. Barrett drolly notes, the Clayton College of Natural Health did (and does) serve one good purpose, “Its credentials are a reliable sign of someone not to consult for advice.” No kidding. And, even though he claims to have an ND degree, the school from which he obtained it was not accredited, which means that Young’s ND degree is even more worthless than an ND from an “accredited” college of naturopathic medicine, as hard as to believe that’s possible. As The Eleventh Doctor would say, “Basically… run.”

But what about cancer? This is what Young claims to be able to treat is most commonly associated with. I think it’s helpful to read this particular manifesto he wrote a few years ago that sums up his view of cancer, What Is The Cause of Cancer? Is There A Cure? Then read my deconstruction from nearly seven years ago. The sheer level of quackery encompassed in Young’s ideas hurts my neurons. To him, cancer is not a mass of cells that have somehow freed themselves from the normal homeostatic controls that keep human cells differentiated, happy, and not growing out of control. To young, cancer is a “poisonous acidic liquid. But he’s not even consistent, because elsewhere he refers to cancer as “cell that has been spoiled or poisoned by metabolic or gastrointestinal acids” and the tumor mass as “body’s protective mechanism to encapsulate spoiled or poisoned cells from excess acid that has not been properly eliminated through urination, perspiration, defecation or respiration” and the “body’s solution to protect healthy cells and tissues.” These concepts, which aren’t even self-consistent in many areas, are so wrong on so many levels that it would take enormous amounts of verbiage to deconstruct them again.

Young is a perfect example of one aspect of quacks that distinguishes them from practitioners of science-based medicine. Science-based medicine recognizes the complexity of disease; it delves into that complexity, trying to make sense out of it and use that knowledge to develop better treatments for disease. Quacks choose to make sense of disease another way, and that way would be insulting to disease, if disease had feelings, in that they often tend to boil all disease down to one cause or a handful of tightly related causes. I’ve often wondered why. It’s more than just the fact that they don’t understand the science behind disease. After all, Young appears to understand acid-base science, but he only understands it at a very superficial level, demonstrating once again that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. What I end up wondering again and again is whether Young actually believes this nonsense. I suppose that on one level it doesn’t really matter. It continues to harm patients and it needs to be stopped.

Here are some key observations that came immediately to mind. First, Robert O. Young appears to be filthy rich from his business endeavors, so much so that he’s considered a flight risk because of his wealth and the numerous facilities around the world where he promotes his program. It’s mentioned elsewhere in the story that one patient paid $120,000 for treatments at his ranch. In the news report, it states that people seeking “treatment” at Young’s ranch pay up to $2,495 a night to stay there, with an image superimposed of a a price list ranging from $1,295 to $2,495 a night. There are top flight hotels in big cities that don’t charge that much for their luxury suites.

According to the Medical Board of California, here’s how the law ultimately caught up with “Dr.” Young:

   The Medical Board worked in conjunction with the San Diego District Attorney’s Office after an undercover investigator infiltrated Young’s avocado ranch where he was illegally treating patients. Both the Medical Board’s investigator and an investigator from the San Diego District Attorney’s Office were diagnosed with diseases and offered very pricy treatments. Many of Young’s patients were actually chronically ill and spent sums of up to $50,000 for Young’s treatment.

   Young is the author of the “pH Miracle,” a diet designed to “alkalinize the body. However, Young took it a step too far when he went beyond advocating dietary changes and began using intravenous treatments on patients housed at his avocado ranch in Valley Center.

So, basically, the law did an undercover sting operation and caught Young making bogus diagnoses and offering treatments for them. The sad thing to me, however, is the strong implication that if Young had advocated only dietary changes to treat cancer, he wouldn’t have gotten in trouble even though there is no evidence that dietary changes can cure any cancer. That is the state the law regulating medical practice, not just in California, but in many states.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/01/27/cancer-quack-robert-o-young-is-arrested-and-arraigned-but-will-he-be-convicted/

Phrased it as it was very long.   I hope this man is put away for a very long time.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:24 pm

People do sometimes die because they can't handle the chemo. It's absurd to say someone's lying about it. That's the trouble with it - it's toxic to the tumour but it's toxic for the rest of the body too.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:26 pm

Something we can agree on Rags.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:28 pm

come on guys give me hand here, i'm trying to get us back on track...

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:31 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Actually true friends do not shy away from speaking their minds to each other and for someone who claims to have me on ignore you obviously keep lying yourself.
Yes cancer is a sensitive subject which you and your husband do not seem to realise how much so it is with his utterly stupid advice on the subject.
So yes again I do know what was said, because again an oncologist would not say that it would be unprofessional.

So take your fake bullshit and swivel it, this is why so many get angry because of you and your husbands stupidity on medical treatment for cancer as countless times you have been proven to be wrong and advise dangerous advice to people.

So I will say what I like, if Eddie has issue with that she will take it up with me, not some deranged born again freak  

That's what friends are for, a true friend will speak up when they think you're in the wrong. We'd all be fucked if our friends just told us what we want to hear in deference to our delicate little feelings.

I wouldn't expect a friend to tell me I was lying about a relatives death. What planet are you residing on?

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:32 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

That's what friends are for, a true friend will speak up when they think you're in the wrong. We'd all be fucked if our friends just told us what we want to hear in deference to our delicate little feelings.

I wouldn't expect a friend to tell me I was lying about a relatives death. What planet are you residing on?


Then you have no concept of true friends, because a real friend does not hold back to say something they see as wrong, because a real friends speaks their mind

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:34 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I wouldn't expect a friend to tell me I was lying about a relatives death. What planet are you residing on?


Then you have no concept of true friends, because a real friend does not hold back to say something they see as wrong, because a real friends speaks their mind

Well you're talking crap. Chemo does sometimes weaken a patient so much that their body can't cope with it. If you mean that an oncologist would be unlikely to admit that to a relative, then say so.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:37 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Then you have no concept of true friends, because a real friend does not hold back to say something they see as wrong, because a real friends speaks their mind

Well you're talking crap. Chemo does sometimes weaken a patient so much that their body can't cope with it. If you mean that an oncologist would be unlikely to admit that to a relative, then say so.

Another self confessed online oncologist, gets funnier by the minute.

At least we now know what a crap friend you would make, no doubt a sheep to people


Also caught you out lying also, you claimed to have placed me on ignore

See, not difficult to expose a lie is it?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:39 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well you're talking crap. Chemo does sometimes weaken a patient so much that their body can't cope with it. If you mean that an oncologist would be unlikely to admit that to a relative, then say so.

Another self confessed online oncologist, gets funnier by the minute.

At least we now know what a crap friend you would make, no doubt a sheep to people


Also caught you out lying also, you claimed to have placed me on ignore

See, not difficult to expose a lie is it?  

You think a good friend should call me a liar?

I'm glad you're not my mate. If I was Eddie, I'd tell you to eff off, but maybe she's too polite.

I took you off ignore to reply to your crass and insensitive posts on this thread - I read what you said when others quoted you.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Didge, two years ago my friend died, she had recovered from breast cancer, been clear for 5 years and then it came back, went into her bones, lungs, kidneys and brain. I sat with her and held her hand while the oncologist explained to her that they could give her chemo that MIGHT give her more time with her boys, but there was a chance it would weaken her body and kill too many 'good' cells for her to survive and that the choice was hers. She chose the chemo and it gave her a few months, but it was an informed choice and she knew that it could make her time shorter, not longer. That is what an oncologist tells you.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Another self confessed online oncologist, gets funnier by the minute.

At least we now know what a crap friend you would make, no doubt a sheep to people


Also caught you out lying also, you claimed to have placed me on ignore

See, not difficult to expose a lie is it?  

You think a good friend should call me a liar?

I'm glad you're not my mate. If I was Eddie, I'd tell you to eff off, but maybe she's too polite.

I took you off ignore to reply to your crass and insensitive posts on this thread - I read what you said when others quoted you.


Eddie will not tell me to eff off, because she also knows I have her best interests at heart and know she has a magical relationship, which she very much deserves, I can though tell her what I feel and know she will not fall out, because no matter if I see her views wrong here, she knows I mean no wrong to her

Now more bullshit, you took me off ignore?

Bollocks, the fact is you make a statement which was clearly false

Not a very good liar are you, means you are introvert, which is not a bad thing, but you lie badly

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Post by Stephenmarra on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:44 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Stephenmarra wrote:

Sorry Didge, if  any friend of mine  that  was in the habit of calling me a liar would very much be an ex friend.
An asshole, an ignorant tw** or stupid c*** is all good and possibly sound advice from a friend but liar that's a no-no.


Hence why you would have no friends, being honest to a friend knowing they have lied is able to help that friend get past why they needed to lie, and Ben agrees with me, showing why an honest friend is way better than one that just is like a pet dog only in agreement

Billy no mates if you have views like that, or are just a sheep and would have no real friends

Go figure  

Wow Didge !
I can count the number of my  true friends on the fingers of one hand, but the question of whether I would lie to them or them to me is hmmm!  unheard of !
Alas yes I pity anyone that goes through life without. So go  for your  condescending bullshit I'm I happy bunny  with the few true friends I have.  Rolling Eyes
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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:46 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You think a good friend should call me a liar?

I'm glad you're not my mate. If I was Eddie, I'd tell you to eff off, but maybe she's too polite.

I took you off ignore to reply to your crass and insensitive posts on this thread - I read what you said when others quoted you.


Eddie will not tell me to eff off, because she also knows I have her best interests at heart and know she has a magical relationship, which she very much deserves, I can though tell her what I feel and know she will not fall out, because no matter if I see her views wrong here, she knows I mean no wrong to her

Now more bullshit, you took me off ignore?

Bollocks, the fact is you make a statement which was clearly false

Not a very good liar are you, means you are introvert, which is not a bad thing, but you lie badly

Yes, I took you off ignore. Prove I'm lying - arsehole.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:47 pm

Stephenmarra wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Hence why you would have no friends, being honest to a friend knowing they have lied is able to help that friend get past why they needed to lie, and Ben agrees with me, showing why an honest friend is way better than one that just is like a pet dog only in agreement

Billy no mates if you have views like that, or are just a sheep and would have no real friends

Go figure  

Wow Didge !
I can count the number of my  true friends on the fingers of one hand, but the question of whether I would lie to them or them to me is hmmm!  unheard of !
Alas yes I pity anyone that goes through life without. So go  for your  condescending bullshit I'm I happy bunny  with the few true friends I have.  Rolling Eyes


You can count?

Well that is pleasing to know, did you manage to count to one?


If you are happy you would have no need to exonerate yourself, only a person not happy with themselves reacts to such a claim and then further exposes they are not as you do now, as if happy you would just laugh..


Let me know if you want to debate as will run rings around your childish points son

 Smile 

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:49 pm

Sassy wrote:Oh for crying out loud Phil, stop talking rubbish.   As Eddie says, chemo is a balancing act, with advanced cancer they are trying to find the dose that will kill off the cancer before you, and sometimes when someone is very sick they can't judge that dose exactly.   You would die from the cancer anyway, so you take a chance.   Mostly it works, occasionally your system is weaker than they think and it doesn't.   To deny it is to deny how chemo works.   Thankfully, most of the time the balancing act kills of the cancer, but if you are sicker than they think and weaker than they think, it doesn't.   Stop being such a bloody know all.

It still gives you the chance that untested treatments never will.

Sassy unfortunately didge has the same complex my brother has; it's called the god complex. He is right, no matter what.
That's why he's not married too lol

You're  absolutely right in what you say, as that is what the oncologist basically said.
She also said that lost of times the chemo and it's complications can kill you before it has a chance to kill,the cancer cells.

Thanks for understanding what the oncologist said.

It's strange  how everyone else believes that the doctor was human enough to have a proper honest conversation with us and understands it's not that far-fetched enough to believe?


Last edited by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:50 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Eddie will not tell me to eff off, because she also knows I have her best interests at heart and know she has a magical relationship, which she very much deserves, I can though tell her what I feel and know she will not fall out, because no matter if I see her views wrong here, she knows I mean no wrong to her

Now more bullshit, you took me off ignore?

Bollocks, the fact is you make a statement which was clearly false

Not a very good liar are you, means you are introvert, which is not a bad thing, but you lie badly

Yes, I took you off ignore. Prove I'm lying - arsehole.


By your last few replies I just did prove it.

Busted

We both know you lie badly, because you are introvert, you have both pet hates and fears, which shines through when you post

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:51 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, I took you off ignore. Prove I'm lying - arsehole.


By your last few replies I just did prove it.

Busted

We both know you lie badly, because you are introvert, you have both pet hates and fears, which shines through when you post

Liar. I took you off ignore, and I then replied to your posts.

Why anyone likes you is a mystery - you sound like a complete moron to me.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:52 pm

eddie wrote:
Sassy wrote:Oh for crying out loud Phil, stop talking rubbish.   As Eddie says, chemo is a balancing act, with advanced cancer they are trying to find the dose that will kill off the cancer before you, and sometimes when someone is very sick they can't judge that dose exactly.   You would die from the cancer anyway, so you take a chance.   Mostly it works, occasionally your system is weaker than they think and it doesn't.   To deny it is to deny how chemo works.   Thankfully, most of the time the balancing act kills of the cancer, but if you are sicker than they think and weaker than they think, it doesn't.   Stop being such a bloody know all.

It still gives you the chance that untested treatments never will.

Sassy unfortunately didge has the same comely my brother has; it's called the god complex. He is right, no matter what.

You're  absolutely right in what you say, as that is what the oncologist basically said.
She also said that lost of times the chemo and it's complications can kill you before it has a chance to kill,the cancer cells.

Thanks for understanding what the oncologist said.

It's strange  how everyone else believes that the doctor was human enough to have a proper honest conversation with us and understands it's not that far-fetched enough to believe?


I have no God complex as am wrong on things and again have proven I show when I do, poor showing Eddie, you would seek to now make this about me, you lied, except you did and I know you did, You can be convincing, I give you that, but I know you are lying because now you attack me as if I am mentally unbalanced claiming to have a god complex. The same person that recognises the magic and blessing you have with your own partner, that is not someone unbalanced is it?

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


By your last few replies I just did prove it.

Busted

We both know you lie badly, because you are introvert, you have both pet hates and fears, which shines through when you post

Liar. I took you off ignore, and I then replied to your posts.

Why anyone likes you is a mystery - you sound like a complete moron to me.


PMSL, exposed

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Post by Stephenmarra on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:53 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Stephenmarra wrote:

Wow Didge !
I can count the number of my  true friends on the fingers of one hand, but the question of whether I would lie to them or them to me is hmmm!  unheard of !
Alas yes I pity anyone that goes through life without. So go  for your  condescending bullshit I'm I happy bunny  with the few true friends I have.  Rolling Eyes


You can count?

Well that is pleasing to know, did you manage to count to one?


If you are happy you would have no need to exonerate yourself, only a person not happy with themselves reacts to such a claim and then further exposes they are not as you do now, as if happy you would just laugh..


Let me know if you want to debate as will run rings around your childish points son

 Smile 
Maybe you could, but would that make you right ?
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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:53 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Liar. I took you off ignore, and I then replied to your posts.

Why anyone likes you is a mystery - you sound like a complete moron to me.


PMSL, exposed

Liar.

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:53 pm

Sassy wrote:Didge, two years ago my friend died, she had recovered from breast cancer, been clear for 5 years and then it came back, went into her bones, lungs, kidneys and brain.   I sat with her and held her hand while the oncologist explained to her that they could give her chemo that MIGHT give her more time with her boys, but there was a chance it would weaken her body and kill too many 'good' cells for her to survive and that the choice was hers.   She chose the chemo and it gave her a few months, but it was an informed choice and she knew that it could make her time shorter, not longer.   That is what an oncologist tells you.

Yes and if they're honest human beings they'll also say "Sorry we tried but it didn't work and in this instance the chemo weakened him and as a result he died"

You're wasting your breath. He will never admit he's wrong.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:54 pm

Stephenmarra wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


You can count?

Well that is pleasing to know, did you manage to count to one?


If you are happy you would have no need to exonerate yourself, only a person not happy with themselves reacts to such a claim and then further exposes they are not as you do now, as if happy you would just laugh..


Let me know if you want to debate as will run rings around your childish points son

 Smile 
Maybe you could, but would that make you right ?


I am not always right Stephen, once I was very racist and very homophopbic, I later realised that was wrong, see not difficult to recognise when wrong is it

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:55 pm

eddie wrote:
Sassy wrote:Didge, two years ago my friend died, she had recovered from breast cancer, been clear for 5 years and then it came back, went into her bones, lungs, kidneys and brain.   I sat with her and held her hand while the oncologist explained to her that they could give her chemo that MIGHT give her more time with her boys, but there was a chance it would weaken her body and kill too many 'good' cells for her to survive and that the choice was hers.   She chose the chemo and it gave her a few months, but it was an informed choice and she knew that it could make her time shorter, not longer.   That is what an oncologist tells you.

Yes and if they're honest human beings they'll also say "Sorry we tried but it didn't work and in this instance the chemo weakened him and as a result he died"

You're wasting your breath. He will never admit he's wrong.


Now you are being a child, I have admitted I have been wrong and stated so which you know very well, so if you want to continue being silly, then sorry Edds you are being the child here, I hold my view and will stick to it

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:56 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


PMSL, exposed

Liar.


Yes, I exposed you were, thus you were busted again

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:57 pm

Yes and if they're honest human beings they'll also say "Sorry we tried but it didn't work and in this instance the chemo weakened him and as a result he died"


Read your words again Eddie, is that what was really said to you?


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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:58 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Liar.


Yes, I exposed you were, thus you were busted again

In what way? Explain properly or admit you're lying.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:59 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Yes, I exposed you were, thus you were busted again

In what way? Explain properly or admit you're lying.


Simple, claim to have me on ignore, then the next day post to me, showing you do not have me on ignore, thus negating the views and posts already stated by you saying why you placed me on ignore, thus exposing those points as lies, because now you do not have me on ignore


Simple

DOH

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:00 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
eddie wrote:

Sassy unfortunately didge has the same comely my brother has; it's called the god complex. He is right, no matter what.

You're  absolutely right in what you say, as that is what the oncologist basically said.
She also said that lost of times the chemo and it's complications can kill you before it has a chance to kill,the cancer cells.

Thanks for understanding what the oncologist said.

It's strange  how everyone else believes that the doctor was human enough to have a proper honest conversation with us and understands it's not that far-fetched enough to believe?


I have no God complex as am wrong on things and again have proven I show when I do, poor showing Eddie, you would seek to now make this about me, you lied, except you did and I know you did, You can be convincing, I give you that, but I know you are lying because now you attack me as if I am mentally unbalanced claiming to have a god complex. The same person that recognises the magic and blessing you have with your own partner, that is not someone unbalanced is it?

Would you,like me swear on my own life??? You silly little man.
You think I'd lie about to my dad's death to prove a point??? Are you insane?
It's not even that unbelievable!!!!!

I just read all this to my OH, who's just walked in and he said "Jesus! Why are you bothering with the wanker?"

And you know what?
He's right.

Fuck off you stupid prick.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:01 pm

Didge, how bloody dare you? Have you any idea how your posts will upset Eddie? Any empathy at all?

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:02 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Yes, I exposed you were, thus you were busted again

In what way? Explain properly or admit you're lying.


Ragga, don't bother.
Not a day goes by without the Ego having a row.
Don't waste your time.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:02 pm

eddie wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


I have no God complex as am wrong on things and again have proven I show when I do, poor showing Eddie, you would seek to now make this about me, you lied, except you did and I know you did, You can be convincing, I give you that, but I know you are lying because now you attack me as if I am mentally unbalanced claiming to have a god complex. The same person that recognises the magic and blessing you have with your own partner, that is not someone unbalanced is it?

Would you,like me swear on my own life??? You silly little man.
You think I'd lie about to my dad's death to prove a point??? Are you insane?
It's not even that unbelievable!!!!!

I just read all this to my OH, who's just walked in and he said "Jesus! Why are you bothering with the wanker?"

And you know what?
He's right.

Fuck off you stupid prick.  

Such a child, so much of a wanker I know what magic you have, now you show and will see why you are being the idiot, I have every right not to believe you as to your claim what was stated, even more so by your previous post to what you said "the chemo weakened him" not kill him.


So grow Eddie, you are being pathetic here

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:03 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

In what way? Explain properly or admit you're lying.


Ragga, don't bother.
Not a day goes by without the Ego having a row.
Don't waste your time.


Pathetic, you know I admit when wrong, you are being a silly child

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:03 pm

PhilDidge wrote:Yes and if they're honest human beings they'll also say "Sorry we tried but it didn't work and in this instance the chemo weakened him and as a result he died"


Read your words again Eddie, is that what was really said to you?

No you stupid twat.
Read again what she said:

"Effectively, yes"


Now fuck off

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:04 pm

cheers 

Kiss my armpits. HAHAHAHAHA

Burrrr-gerrrr

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:04 pm

eddie wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:Yes and if they're honest human beings they'll also say "Sorry we tried but it didn't work and in this instance the chemo weakened him and as a result he died"


Read your words again Eddie, is that what was really said to you?

 No you stupid twat.
Read again what she said:

"Effectively, yes"


Now fuck off


No I will not fuck off, your own words, were chemo weakened him, thus now we see the truth coming out, your own belief thus it was the chemo, I again do not believe the oncologist said that


Grow the fuck up

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:06 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

In what way? Explain properly or admit you're lying.


Simple, claim to have me on ignore, then the next day post to me, showing you do not have me on ignore, thus negating the views and posts already stated by you saying why you placed me on ignore, thus exposing those points as lies, because now you do not have me on ignore


Simple

DOH  

It's you who's simple. Do you think that it's impossible to take somone off ignore? I suggest you go into your own profile and work out how to use the friends and foes feature instead of sitting there spouting bullshit.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:07 pm

eddie wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:Yes and if they're honest human beings they'll also say "Sorry we tried but it didn't work and in this instance the chemo weakened him and as a result he died"


Read your words again Eddie, is that what was really said to you?

 No you stupid twat.
Read again what she said:

"Effectively, yes"


Now fuck off

Well said. I would have said that to him on the previous page.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:07 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Simple, claim to have me on ignore, then the next day post to me, showing you do not have me on ignore, thus negating the views and posts already stated by you saying why you placed me on ignore, thus exposing those points as lies, because now you do not have me on ignore


Simple

DOH  

It's you who's simple. Do you think that it's impossible to take somone off ignore? I suggest you go into your own profile and work out how to use the friends and foes feature instead of sitting there spouting bullshit.


Actually I just proved you are daft, your words to putting me on ignore are exposed as lies, because you went back on them dummy

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:08 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's you who's simple. Do you think that it's impossible to take somone off ignore? I suggest you go into your own profile and work out how to use the friends and foes feature instead of sitting there spouting bullshit.


Actually I just proved you are daft, your words to putting me on ignore are exposed as lies, because you went back on them dummy

Guess what? You're a moron, you're a nasty piece of work, and you're totally thick.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Actually I just proved you are daft, your words to putting me on ignore are exposed as lies, because you went back on them dummy

Guess what? You're a moron, you're a nasty piece of work, and you're totally thick.


Much brighter than you because such childish words have no affect and meaning and only intelligence knows that such childish insults are meaningless

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:10 pm

"She also said that lost of times the chemo and it's complications can kill you before it has a chance to kill,the cancer cells."


Did you see the word ALSO?????

She also said, also
Also

Go and find my original post of what the conversation was, because that's the conversation.
And she ALSO said......above


for someone who thinks he's pretty smart you're really quite an idiot.

Now kiss my arse you dumb fuck.


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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:10 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Guess what? You're a moron, you're a nasty piece of work, and you're totally thick.


Much brighter than you because such childish words have no affect and meaning and only intelligence knows that such childish insults are meaningless

Oh, and you're an arsehole as well.

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:11 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Guess what? You're a moron, you're a nasty piece of work, and you're totally thick.


Much brighter than you because such childish words have no affect and meaning and only intelligence knows that such childish insults are meaningless

Have you got a girlfriend? If you haven't I can see why.
If you have go and fuck her silly because you have too much pent up frustration.

It's a debate forum. Prick.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:11 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Much brighter than you because such childish words have no affect and meaning and only intelligence knows that such childish insults are meaningless

Oh, and you're an arsehole as well.


Priceless....................... lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! 

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:12 pm

eddie wrote:"She also said that lost of times the chemo and it's complications can kill you before it has a chance to kill,the cancer cells."


Did you see the word ALSO?????

She also said, also
Also

Go and find my original post of what the conversation was, because that's the conversation.
And she ALSO said......above


for someone who thinks he's pretty smart you're really quite an idiot.

Now kiss my arse you dumb fuck.



hearsay Eddie and again because you yourself believe that is what killed him, again sorry I do not believe she would say Chemo killed him, because again your views on this


Your childish insults mean nothing and care little if you think I believe for one minute your anger here reflects your true character, thus you do not accept my view, good, I do not accept yours, you have to deal with that, not me

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:13 pm

eddie wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:


Much brighter than you because such childish words have no affect and meaning and only intelligence knows that such childish insults are meaningless

Have you got a girlfriend? If you haven't I can see why.
If you have go and fuck her silly because you have too much pent up frustration.

It's a debate forum. Prick.


More childish insults, I am married, but thanks for your kind words[/quote]


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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:13 pm

Eddie, it's not my business, but I honestly don't think Dodge has not meant to offend or hurt you, i think he just finds it difficult to comprehend medical staff being able to tell you that chemo had been the actual cause of death..
Your a young woman who has lost the main man in her life since you were a baby...it doesn't come much more sad or hard a loss as that.

But please Eddie, a Didge has not disbelieved what you said just to hurt you , it's just that he couldn't see that being told to you...that does not mean that wasn't what you were told..and after reading further what you said about it, I totally believe you as you have no reason to lie about it..and as if you would anyway,

I kindly ask you Eddie if you can forgive Didge, I honestly don't think he said that for the wrong reasons..I'm not arse crawling for anyone here, I just would not like to see two old school posters fall out , I ask you kindly to realise his reasons for doubting what you said and that it was not done out of malice.

JDxx


Last edited by Joy Division on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Stephenmarra on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:14 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
eddie wrote:

Would you,like me swear on my own life??? You silly little man.
You think I'd lie about to my dad's death to prove a point??? Are you insane?
It's not even that unbelievable!!!!!

I just read all this to my OH, who's just walked in and he said "Jesus! Why are you bothering with the wanker?"

And you know what?
He's right.

Fuck off you stupid prick.  

Such a child, so much of a wanker I know what magic you have, now you show and will see why you are being the idiot, I have every right not to believe you as to your claim what was stated, even more so by your previous post to what you said "the chemo weakened him" not kill him.


So grow Eddie, you are being pathetic here
Didge, You have every right that  you don't believe her as a poster.
As a friend,  Hmmmmm ! think about it !
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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:14 pm

Thank you Joy but it is not worth it, I am not allowed an opinion and now abused in the worst possible way, thanks Eddie I shall now leave if you think this of me


Good bye

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:17 pm

PhilDidge wrote:Thank you Joy but it is not worth it, I am not allowed an opinion and now abused in the worst possible way, thanks Eddie I shall now leave if you think this of me


Good bye


Didge , please hang around for now at least, your both old timers on forums amd I. Sure deep down Eds knows you did not intend to upset her, it's just differing opinions of the medical field!!

Please wait Didge...

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