If god is all powerful why does he allow sin?

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:06 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:Four million over a decade??

Yeah religion is dying out faster than a fast thing

Don't suppose you have worldwide stats

Dear me, that is quite a lot of people over a short period smelly, even more so when you think of how many Eastern Europeans have come here who are mainly all Catholic, who without them coming, the figure would have been even lower of Christian belief, showing that the true figure leaving is more like 6 million here in the last 10 years, that is substantial.

No idea on the world, last I heard atheism or no belief was the third biggest.

oh yeah as long as the last you heard on the ole grapevine was that atheism or no belief was the third biggest i guess it must be true

so no stats on worldwide religious conversions then

just delusional pipe dreams

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Post by stardesk on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:08 pm

Inrerupting a lively battle between a couple of you, evolution has sod all to do with religion, simply because it deals with proven scientific knowledge, findings, and facts, whereas religion relies solely on believing in a mythical being who has no proof of existance. Simple, aint it fellas.
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Diverting away from the battle, I was browsing through some of my old myth files and came across the following which I'd completely forgotten about. Have fun reading it HF, then the usual denials and side-tracking.

LUCIFER:
The New International Bible, The New Worlds Translation, The New English Bible. All 3 versions agree with each other and this is the result in accordance with the references.

Isaiah 14:12 No names mentioned.
Luke 10:18  Satan is named but not Lucifer.
Revelations 9:1 No names mentioned.
Revelations 12:3-9 Satan, the Devil and a dragon mentioned but not Lucifer.
Hebrews 12:22 No names mentioned.

It is interesting to note that Poet and mystic W. Blake (CE 1757-1827) classed
Lucifer as an angel of light and life bringer.
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This is what Enoch says about Angels, who were apparently given specific areas
of responsibility.

Ancient & traditional zodiac signs ruled by Angels &/or spirits, adopted by
Christians to represent their Saints:
Sign     Saint Angel/Spirit
Leo     ST. Mark Luvah        & Verchiel
Taurus     ST. Luke Tharmas    & Asmodel
Scorpio     ST. John Urizen    & Barbiel
Aquarius     ST. Matthew Urthona    & Gabiel

List of signs of the zodiac and ruling Angels:    Ruling Angels according to ST. Paul:
Sign        Angel/Spirit           Celestial rank
Aries        Malchidiel           Seraphim                  Ail.
Taurus        Asmodel           Cherubim                  Tual
Gemini        Ambriel           Thrones                   Giel
Cancer        Muriel           Dominions                   Cael
Leo        Verchiel           Powers                  Ol
Virgo        Hamaliel           Virtues                   Voil
Libra        Zuriel           Principalities               Jael
Scorpio        Barbiel           Archangels                 Sosol
Sagittarius     Adnachiel           Angels                 Sizajasel
Capricorn      Hanael           Innocents                 Casujoiah
Aquarius       Gabiel           Martyrs                 Ausiul
Pisces       Bachiel           Confessors                 Pasiel

Angels ruling over their respective planets:
Sun =Michael.  Moon =Gabriel.   Mercury =Raphael.  Venus =Anael.   Mars=Camael.
Jupiter   Zadkiel.     Saturn   Zaphkiel (Zazel).
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The above just goes to show how entrenched the early church was in mysticism and the
occult. Dare we say an extension and continuation  of older Pagan beliefs?
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Post by stardesk on Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:22 pm

There you go gain HF: 'it governs that you are a series of accidental mutations starting from monkeys.'

You are getting boring now matey, with your continual repetition, why are you in a debate if all you can do is keep on repeating the same worn out claim? Change the record and come up with something more constructive.
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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:19 pm

stardesk wrote:There you go gain HF: 'it governs that you are a series of accidental mutations starting from monkeys.'

You are getting boring now matey, with your continual repetition, why are you in a debate if all you can do is keep on repeating the same worn out claim? Change the record and come up with something more constructive.

so what is the mechanism that evolution is driven by... Smile 

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Post by stardesk on Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:01 pm

God & Sin

The question has been asked why does god allow sin? Quite simple to understand, really, when you read various accounts in the Bible, more specifically the accounts of atrocities of the Israelites during their journey to the so called Promised Land, God portrays himself as the epitome of sin, of genocide, of infanticide, of paedophilia. Following are a few extracts from the book of Joshua:

Joshua 6:21  ‘They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.’

Joshua 10:10 (concerning the city of Gibeon): ‘The Lord threw them into confusion before Israel, who defeated them in a great victory…Israel pursued them along the road…and cut them down….as they fled the Lord hurled large hailstones down on them from the sky and more of them died from the hailstones than were killed by the swords of the Israelites.’

Joshua 10:28 ‘Joshua took Makkedah. He put the city and its king to the sword and totally destroyed everyone in it. He left no survivors.’

Joshua 10:29 ‘Then Joshua and all Israel moved on to Libnah…the Lord gave that city into in to Israels hands. The city and everyone it it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there.’

Numbers 31:17: (Concerning Midian where the Lord instructs the Israelites)…‘Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man., but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.’
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What kind of loving, caring father is this God? Evilness in the extreme. Would it not have been kinder to tell the Israelites to appraise them of their God, instruct and teach them the ‘Word?’ It seems not, for death and destruction are his Names. We see signs of this in very many stories throughout the OT. And Satan is maligned and called evil?
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HF, evolution was driven by the necessiry to adapt to various and changing environments and climates. Natural selection would have figuered in this process, the survival of the fittest and those who were able to adapt by changes in the body structure.
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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:40 pm

stardesk wrote:God & Sin

The question has been asked why does god allow sin? Quite simple to understand, really, when you read various accounts in the Bible, more specifically the accounts of atrocities of the Israelites during their journey to the so called Promised Land, God portrays himself as the epitome of sin, of genocide, of infanticide, of paedophilia. Following are a few extracts from the book of Joshua:

Joshua 6:21  ‘They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.’

Joshua 10:10 (concerning the city of Gibeon): ‘The Lord threw them into confusion before Israel, who defeated them in a great victory…Israel pursued them along the road…and cut them down….as they fled the Lord hurled large hailstones down on them from the sky and more of them died from the hailstones than were killed by the swords of the Israelites.’

Joshua 10:28 ‘Joshua took Makkedah. He put the city and its king to the sword and totally destroyed everyone in it. He left no survivors.’

Joshua 10:29 ‘Then Joshua and all Israel moved on to Libnah…the Lord gave that city into in to Israels hands. The city and everyone it it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there.’

Numbers 31:17: (Concerning Midian where the Lord instructs the Israelites)…‘Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man., but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.’
-----------------------
What kind of loving, caring father is this God? Evilness in the extreme. Would it not have been kinder to tell the Israelites to appraise them of their God, instruct and teach them the ‘Word?’ It seems not, for death and destruction are his Names. We see signs of this in very many stories throughout the OT. And Satan is maligned and called evil?
------------------------

HF, evolution was driven by the necessiry to adapt to various and changing environments and climates. Natural selection would have figuered in this process, the survival of the fittest and those who were able to adapt by changes in the body structure.

ha ha ha how does natural selection change a species in to another... Smile 

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Post by stardesk on Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:38 pm

What, nothing to say about sin, HF?

Expanding on an interpretation of Natural selection, genomes and DNA, among other things, cause changes in a species, usually generated by changes in the environment, climate, and food resources. That is a 'natural' process, that process has obviously 'selected' the best way forward.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:55 pm

stardesk wrote:What, nothing to say about sin, HF?

Expanding on an interpretation of Natural selection, genomes and DNA, among other things, cause changes in a species, usually generated by changes in the environment, climate, and food resources. That is a 'natural' process, that process has obviously 'selected' the best way forward.

selective wording eh, within a species, not to another species... Smile 

sin yes lots to say about sin, it can all be forgiven if you just accept Jesus as you Lord and Saviour... Smile 

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Post by stardesk on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:34 pm

Worshpping Jesus does not absolve God from the evilness he generated in the Israelites. See the above accounts.

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Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:40 pm

stardesk wrote:Worshpping Jesus does not absolve God from the evilness he generated in the Israelites. See the above accounts.

I've seen them all before, i've debated them all before... Smile 

why do yo worship the sun , moon or earth??

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Post by stardesk on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:44 pm

HF, where do you get the idea that we worship the sun and moon etc? I personally worship nothing, especially make-believe gods. I'll leave that to people like yourself, who haven't taken their heads out of their religious books, and looked around the world at other possibilities, at the proven facts of evolution. This topic is about whether god allows sin, and on reading various passages in the Bible the obvious answer is yes, he does.

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Post by Guest on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:24 pm

stardesk wrote:HF, where do you get the idea that we worship the sun and moon etc? I personally worship nothing, especially make-believe gods. I'll leave that to people like yourself, who haven't taken their heads out of their religious books, and looked around the world at other possibilities, at the proven facts of evolution. This topic is about whether god allows sin, and on reading various passages in the Bible the obvious answer is yes, he does.

oh sorry is it mother earth who offers us her bounty...lol

evolution is no proven fact..lol found any mutations, did you find out about the colour of the eyes of these ancestral apes of ours??

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:32 pm

heavenly father wrote:
stardesk wrote:HF, where do you get the idea that we worship the sun and moon etc? I personally worship nothing, especially make-believe gods. I'll leave that to people like yourself, who haven't taken their heads out of their religious books, and looked around the world at other possibilities, at the proven facts of evolution. This topic is about whether god allows sin, and on reading various passages in the Bible the obvious answer is yes, he does.

oh sorry is it mother earth who offers us her bounty...lol

evolution is no proven fact..lol found any mutations, did you find out about the colour of the eyes of these ancestral apes of ours??

There's a lot of proof of evolution ... as you've been told. You're just obstinate. But to address the eye color question, eyes are made of soft tissues, there's really no way they could have been preserved well enough naturally to provide that information.

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Post by stardesk on Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:27 pm

Hi Ben. Quite right about eye tissues not being preserved. Being flesh and tissue they soon rot down and don't fossilize like bones.

HF, most animals and especially primates have brown eyes and early man probably also had brown ones.

Being flippant, can you wiggle your ears? Of course you can as we all can, just like most animals. An ability left over from our more animal-like ancestors.

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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:15 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Ben. Quite right about eye tissues not being preserved. Being flesh and tissue they soon rot down and don't fossilize like bones.

HF, most animals and especially primates have brown eyes and early man probably also had brown ones.

Being flippant, can you wiggle your ears? Of course you can as we all can, just like most animals. An ability left over from our more animal-like ancestors.

You can wiggle your ears??

Doctor Xavier will have his eyes on you

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Post by stardesk on Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:21 pm

Does God allow sin? Of course not. Our minds think both positive and negative thoughts. Sometimes those thoughts are transmitted into actions, whether good or sinful, according to how we react to an outside stimulus, and of course the mood we're in at the time. God doesn't come in to it. We have choices haven't we. I'm basically a good person but yes, I've had sinful thoughts and done sinful deeds, just like everyone else.
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