I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

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I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:23 pm

I will keep this short and sweet, but some have a problem with kids having autism as well as adults too with Aspergers...

Apparently all a lie and fabricated to get benefits money.

To deny such condition exists is to deny any mental condition, I find it ridiculous how some small minded come to these conclusions despite the evidence to support their existence ...

But that it s benefit haters for you.

I think things like saying these conditions don't exist in thread titles should be stopped, they are not matter of fact, they are passed of as opinion to stir hatred towards others.

JD.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:27 pm

A lot of threads here could be said to be a dig at someone I guess.

The thread was not about autism or aspergers anyway.
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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:17 pm

Joy Division wrote:I will keep this short and sweet, but some have a problem with kids having autism as well as adults too with Aspergers...

Apparently all a lie and fabricated to get benefits money.

To deny such condition exists is to deny any mental condition, I find it ridiculous  how some small minded come to these conclusions despite the evidence to support their existence ...

But that it s benefit haters for you.

I think things like saying these conditions don't exist in thread titles should be stopped, they are not matter of fact, they are passed of as opinion to stir hatred towards others.

JD.

No its bone idle people like Catman we are referring to. Spongers never done a days work and shitting themselves at the prospect of ATOS making a move in their direction.


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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:27 pm

You really are a foul petty little man with an obvious inferiority complex. You know full well Phil has been employed for many years before having to look after his partner. We also know that you gave up work to look after your sons (you told us). You obviously feel guilty about relying on your wife and emasculated, or you wouldn't post in the way you do. It's pretty obvious.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:52 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:A lot of threads here could be said to be a dig at someone I guess.

The thread was not about autism or aspergers anyway.


But the same thing was said about autism before, dyslexia is as real as any other condition.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:10 am

Joy Division wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:A lot of threads here could be said to be a dig at someone I guess.

The thread was not about autism or aspergers anyway.


But the same thing was said about autism before, dyslexia is as real as any other condition.

So you decide the subject of threads now? If they're a dig at you, I can understand it, but it wasn't anything to do with you.
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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:34 am

Get a grip JD.

My thread title was about a genuine news item, "more or less".

Now, what I would suggest is this:

Ben sorts out some of these new posters on here.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:36 am

Joy Division wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:A lot of threads here could be said to be a dig at someone I guess.

The thread was not about autism or aspergers anyway.


But the same thing was said about autism before, dyslexia is as real as any other condition.

Well there are at least 2 experts who have conducted a scientific study on it who disagree. I would say that they are as entitled to present their opinion and reasons for that opinion as anyone else wouldnt you?

Telling people what they can and cannot debate about is suppression.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:09 am

sphinx wrote:
Joy Division wrote:


But the same thing was said about autism before, dyslexia is as real as any other condition.

Well there are at least 2 experts who have conducted a scientific study on it who disagree.  I would say that they are as entitled to present their opinion and reasons for that opinion as anyone else wouldnt you?

Telling people what they can and cannot debate about is suppression.



Autism, dyslexia, ADHD, Aspergers ...they are all recognised conditions, or are the real experts Who deal with people like that , as well as the medical field all wrong?

I'm suppressing no -one, I'm saying these rubbish claims /opinions made by BA are bullshit, I don't care what your while two experts say. Facts say otherwise ...

Or are those affected by those conditions just lying Sphinx?


Funny thin is, if anyone came in saying your Fybnromyalgia was bullshit, then you would have something to say about that....I think there are many faking that as they are lazy, but as I'm no expert I will go with the health professionals and acknowledge that it is a genuine condition ...I won't make a thread title up saying it does not exist.


Debating does not involve telling ridiculous lies saying a recognised condition doesn't exist.


You should have kept quiet, as this one was bound to bite you in the arse, what you're trying to do is justify stirring hate and as well as encouraging bias towards the unemployed and disabled, please don't try to pass it off as debate.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:12 am

It is worth discussing though because we hear about these things so much in the papers. I watched a You Tube of a bloke talking about his aspergers, but there didn't appear to be anything wrong with him IMO.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:15 am

Raggamuffin wrote:It is worth discussing though because we hear about these things so much in the papers. I watched a You Tube of a bloke talking about his aspergers, but there didn't appear to be anything wrong with him IMO.

..the minute we begin to say that about everyone with a condition , then that's when we have failed to show any knowledge and a lack of understanding..
Of course some will feign condition, but there are plenty more who are genuine.

Do you agree that BA titled his thread correctly?

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:17 am

Btw you can tell BA I'm gonna kick his fucking arse!

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:17 am

Joy Division wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:It is worth discussing though because we hear about these things so much in the papers. I watched a You Tube of a bloke talking about his aspergers, but there didn't appear to be anything wrong with him IMO.

..the minute we begin to say that about everyone with a condition , then that's when we have failed to show any knowledge and a lack of understanding..
Of course some will feign  condition, but there are plenty more who are genuine.

Do you agree that BA titled his thread correctly?

I don't think he was faking it, he really thought he had it. What I'm saying is that I think it's overdiagnosed and that people are a bit "different" are labelled when there's nothing wrong with them.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:22 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

..the minute we begin to say that about everyone with a condition , then that's when we have failed to show any knowledge and a lack of understanding..
Of course some will feign  condition, but there are plenty more who are genuine.

Do you agree that BA titled his thread correctly?

I don't think he was faking it, he really thought he had it. What I'm saying is that I think it's overdiagnosed and that people are a bit "different" are labelled when there's nothing wrong with them.

Yes I agree..some do get that wrong diagnosis , possibly just because they are different...

BA's title reads 'Aspergers and ADHD don't exist'

That reads that those conditions don't exist,so nobody could possibly have them...

Do you think BA worded that correctly?

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:34 am

Joy Division wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't think he was faking it, he really thought he had it. What I'm saying is that I think it's overdiagnosed and that people are a bit "different" are labelled when there's nothing wrong with them.

Yes I agree..some do get that wrong diagnosis , possibly just because they are different...

BA's title reads 'Aspergers and ADHD don't exist'

That reads that those conditions don't exist,so nobody could possibly have them...

Do you think BA worded that correctly?

He said dyslexia - not aspergers.

I do think they exist, but are overdiagnosed - like bipolar disorder.
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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:17 am

Joy Division wrote:
sphinx wrote:

Well there are at least 2 experts who have conducted a scientific study on it who disagree.  I would say that they are as entitled to present their opinion and reasons for that opinion as anyone else wouldnt you?

Telling people what they can and cannot debate about is suppression.



Autism, dyslexia, ADHD, Aspergers ...they are all recognised conditions, or are the real experts Who deal with people like that , as well as the medical field all wrong?

I'm suppressing no -one, I'm saying these rubbish claims /opinions made by BA are bullshit, I don't care what your while two experts say. Facts say otherwise ...

Or are those affected by those conditions just lying Sphinx?


Funny thin is, if anyone came in saying your Fybnromyalgia was bullshit, then you would have something to say about that....I think there are many faking that as they are lazy, but as I'm no expert I will go with the health professionals and acknowledge that it is a genuine condition ...I won't make a thread title up saying it does not exist.


Debating does not involve telling ridiculous lies saying a recognised condition doesn't exist.


You should have kept quiet, as this one was bound to bite you in the arse, what you're trying to do is justify stirring hate and as well as encouraging bias towards the unemployed and disabled, please don't try to pass it off as debate.

I am well used to people claiming fibro is made up JD - I simply reply with the facts (the fMRI brain scan results, the neuro transmitter levels, especially factor P, ) if people say about faking it I tell them it is not as easy as they may think - a skilled rheumatologist using the pressure point test alone will be 88% accurate which is comparable to blood tests in some other conditions (read B http://www.aaaceus.com/courses/NL0309/ARTICLE%204.pdf for an explanation of the study and results)

I think you have slightly misread what has been put - the title was to do with ADHD and dyslexia not autism and aspergers. Personally I believe that both dyslexia and ADHD are real - but that that are massively over claimed and significantly over diagnosed in some area.

The crux for me of the study quoted is if you take 2 young people with the same difficulty reading and diagnose one as dyslexic and one as behind and give them the appropriate assistance then the results will be no different - that would be like diagnosing one person as fibro and one person as hypochondriac and prescribing placebos and having both show the same improvement which just does not happen .

Surely at the end of the day we should be worrying about outcome - if supported reading produces the same outcome as labelling dyslexic at a third of the cost then surely that is all that is needed? Like I said I believe the condition is real - I just believe diagnostic criteria are far far too lax which does not benefit the few who genuinely have the physical problem and allows too many children without the problem to receive sub standard teaching in the first place resulting in them needing remedial help just through bad teaching.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by gerber on Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:40 am

sphinx wrote:
Joy Division wrote:



Autism, dyslexia, ADHD, Aspergers ...they are all recognised conditions, or are the real experts Who deal with people like that , as well as the medical field all wrong?

I'm suppressing no -one, I'm saying these rubbish claims /opinions made by BA are bullshit, I don't care what your while two experts say. Facts say otherwise ...

Or are those affected by those conditions just lying Sphinx?


Funny thin is, if anyone came in saying your Fybnromyalgia was bullshit, then you would have something to say about that....I think there are many faking that as they are lazy, but as I'm no expert I will go with the health professionals and acknowledge that it is a genuine condition ...I won't make a thread title up saying it does not exist.


Debating does not involve telling ridiculous lies saying a recognised condition doesn't exist.


You should have kept quiet, as this one was bound to bite you in the arse, what you're trying to do is justify stirring hate and as well as encouraging bias towards the unemployed and disabled, please don't try to pass it off as debate.

I am well used to people claiming fibro is made up JD - I simply reply with the facts (the fMRI brain scan results, the neuro transmitter levels, especially factor P, ) if people say about faking it I tell them it is not as easy as they may think - a skilled rheumatologist using the pressure point test alone will be 88% accurate which is comparable to blood tests in some other conditions (read B http://www.aaaceus.com/courses/NL0309/ARTICLE%204.pdf for an explanation of the study and results)

I think you have slightly misread what has been put - the title was to do with ADHD and dyslexia not autism and aspergers.  Personally I believe that both dyslexia and ADHD are real - but that that are massively over claimed and significantly over diagnosed in some area.

The crux for me of the study quoted is if you take 2 young people with the same difficulty reading and diagnose one as dyslexic and one as behind and give them the appropriate assistance then the results will be no different - that would be like diagnosing one person as fibro and one person as hypochondriac and prescribing placebos and having both show the same improvement which just does not happen .

Surely at the end of the day we should be worrying about outcome - if supported reading produces the same outcome as labelling dyslexic at a third of the cost then surely that is all that is needed?  Like I said I believe the condition is real - I just believe diagnostic criteria are far far too lax which does not benefit the few who genuinely have the physical problem and allows too many children without the problem to receive sub standard teaching in the first place resulting in them needing remedial help just through bad teaching.

Sphynx

I agree completely with your comments. Bad, poor and lazy teaching are causing huge holes in some childrens' education. there always have been slow learners, the ones not wishing to learn, the lazy ones who cannot be bothered and the disruptive ones who hide behind a mask of fear of learning.

I do worry about the amount of medication dished out to young vulnerable children the consequences have to be fully medically monitored. Some do need medication but i along with many others doubt it is all that are prescribed. Some just need time, persuasion, care, attention and love and proper teaching from teachers who are there to change the lives of their class, not the ones who are there for the money, pension and thirteen weeks holidays a year.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:55 am

I actually had to fight to keep my 3rd child away from being assessed and statemented.

There is plenty of significant evidence that the male brain develops on average 18 months behind the female brain - and no child can do something until the appropriate brain connections have formed. This means that is is totally normal in boys for a small number to not develop the necessary connections for reading until they are 7.

The British education system puts too much pressure on too fast - children are expected to hit targets at 6 that some boys will not develop ability for until 7 and the parents of those children can come under intense pressure to have them "investigated".

It would have achieved nothing and probably been harmful to my son to have had investigations and statements as it would have highlighted him and picked him out making him feel different and inadequate - around his 7th birthday he went from near bottom of the class reading to the top few over a course of 6 to 8 weeks and he has been consistently high - all he needed was time and gentle encouragement and acceptable. I shudder to think of the what would have happened if I had gone down the "theres something wrong that needs treatment" path.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:33 am

sphinx wrote:I actually had to fight to keep my 3rd child away from being assessed and statemented.

There is plenty of significant evidence that the male brain develops on average 18 months behind the female brain - and no child can do something until the appropriate brain connections have formed.  This means that is is totally normal in boys for a small number to not develop the necessary connections for reading until they are 7.

The British education system puts too much pressure on too fast - children are expected to hit targets at 6 that some boys will not develop ability for until 7 and the parents of those children can come under intense pressure to have them "investigated".  

It would have achieved nothing and probably been harmful to my son to have had investigations and statements as it would have highlighted him and picked him out making him feel different and inadequate - around his 7th birthday he went from near bottom of the class reading to the top few over a course of 6 to 8 weeks and he has been consistently high - all he needed was time and gentle encouragement and acceptable.  I shudder to think of the what would have happened if I had gone down the "theres something wrong that needs treatment" path.


What about toddlers who are not savvy enough to pretend to display many characteristics ...maybe they just need a wee 'shove ' or a little gentle encouragement.

And btw Sphinx...health professionals don't just give kids a title for no reason, nor do they do they imply or insinuate to.
you that your child may have something like autism, Aspergers ,dyspraxia or other on a whim.

When we took our toddler to a paediatrician ( a different one for a second time) she said that autism was in the back of her mind, but would have to have him properly assessed by another two health professionals trained in what to look for as well as herself, the three of them all agreed he had and was displaying many of the signs.

So anyone trying to tell me that health professional are dishing out medical titles like autism are talikng right out their arse, perhaps ADHD, but not autism ...

Nobody just gets you in a room after looking at your kid for five minutes then sticks their kneck out to say they have autism....I can assure you, it just doesn't work like that.


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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:41 am

sphinx wrote:I actually had to fight to keep my 3rd child away from being assessed and statemented.

There is plenty of significant evidence that the male brain develops on average 18 months behind the female brain - and no child can do something until the appropriate brain connections have formed.  This means that is is totally normal in boys for a small number to not develop the necessary connections for reading until they are 7.

The British education system puts too much pressure on too fast - children are expected to hit targets at 6 that some boys will not develop ability for until 7 and the parents of those children can come under intense pressure to have them "investigated".  

It would have achieved nothing and probably been harmful to my son to have had investigations and statements as it would have highlighted him and picked him out making him feel different and inadequate - around his 7th birthday he went from near bottom of the class reading to the top few over a course of 6 to 8 weeks and he has been consistently high - all he needed was time and gentle encouragement and acceptable.  I shudder to think of the what would have happened if I had gone down the "theres something wrong that needs treatment" path.


...you make these 'inbestigations' sound sinister Sphinx, if a bairn needs help then they do, there is nothing wrong with that, teaching staff are trained specially on how to teach children who may be a bit more slow and how to ease theor fears, so I would rather have my kids feel comfortable where they can put their hand up if there is something they don't understand , rather than sit there quiet, feeling too ashamed to put their hand up because they don't know the answer...which bairn do tou think will get on better Sphix?

How would it make matters worse for the bairn if they did not get that bit extra help or even just guidance?

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:46 am

Joy Division wrote:
sphinx wrote:I actually had to fight to keep my 3rd child away from being assessed and statemented.

There is plenty of significant evidence that the male brain develops on average 18 months behind the female brain - and no child can do something until the appropriate brain connections have formed.  This means that is is totally normal in boys for a small number to not develop the necessary connections for reading until they are 7.

The British education system puts too much pressure on too fast - children are expected to hit targets at 6 that some boys will not develop ability for until 7 and the parents of those children can come under intense pressure to have them "investigated".  

It would have achieved nothing and probably been harmful to my son to have had investigations and statements as it would have highlighted him and picked him out making him feel different and inadequate - around his 7th birthday he went from near bottom of the class reading to the top few over a course of 6 to 8 weeks and he has been consistently high - all he needed was time and gentle encouragement and acceptable.  I shudder to think of the what would have happened if I had gone down the "theres something wrong that needs treatment" path.


What about toddlers who are not savvy enough to pretend to display many characteristics ...maybe they just need a wee 'shove ' or a little gentle encouragement.

And btw Sphinx...health professionals don't just give kids a title for no reason, nor do they do they imply or insinuate to.
you that your child may have something like autism, Aspergers ,dyspraxia or other on a whim.

When we took our toddler to a paediatrician  ( a different one for a second time) she said that autism was in the back of her mind, but would have to have him properly assessed by another two health professionals trained in what to look for as well as herself, the three of them all agreed he had and was displaying many of the signs.

So anyone trying to tell me that health professional are dishing out medical titles like autism are talikng right out their arse, perhaps ADHD, but  not autism ...

Nobody just gets you in a room after looking at your kid for five minutes then  sticks their kneck out to say they have autism....I can assure you, it just doesn't work like that.


JD this may come to you as a shock but every single case is a unique person and what is the case for one person is totally wrong for another.

I have not talked about toddlers or health professionals - although certain health professionals will certainly give out titles for the reason of gaining funding.

Again stating that ADHD or dyslexia are not real is not remotely stating or suggesting that autism is not real.

Again I do not believe that ADHD and Dyslexia are unreal - I just believe believe the diagnostic criteria have become so wide and unspecific that they are significantly over diagnosed and that there are far far too many people who are not properly trained giving out diagnoses. That is ADHD and Dsylexia - not autism. I am not talking about your child.

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Re: I call an end to bullshit thread titles...

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:59 am

Joy Division wrote:
sphinx wrote:I actually had to fight to keep my 3rd child away from being assessed and statemented.

There is plenty of significant evidence that the male brain develops on average 18 months behind the female brain - and no child can do something until the appropriate brain connections have formed.  This means that is is totally normal in boys for a small number to not develop the necessary connections for reading until they are 7.

The British education system puts too much pressure on too fast - children are expected to hit targets at 6 that some boys will not develop ability for until 7 and the parents of those children can come under intense pressure to have them "investigated".  

It would have achieved nothing and probably been harmful to my son to have had investigations and statements as it would have highlighted him and picked him out making him feel different and inadequate - around his 7th birthday he went from near bottom of the class reading to the top few over a course of 6 to 8 weeks and he has been consistently high - all he needed was time and gentle encouragement and acceptable.  I shudder to think of the what would have happened if I had gone down the "theres something wrong that needs treatment" path.


...you make these 'inbestigations' sound sinister Sphinx, if a bairn needs help then they do, there is nothing wrong with that, teaching staff are trained specially on how to teach children who may be a bit more slow and how to ease theor fears, so I would rather have my kids feel comfortable where they can put their hand up if there is something they don't understand , rather than sit there quiet, feeling too ashamed to put their hand up because they don't know the answer...which bairn do tou think will get on better Sphix?

How would it make matters worse for the bairn if they did not get that bit extra help or even just guidance?

That is my point JD - there are bairns being investigated when they do not need help - it is like investigating 9 month old babies because they have not started walking.

Teaching staff in the UK - especially younger ones - are NOT trained in teaching children who are slightly slow they are trained to think that all children should be developmentally capable of reading by age 6 and a half when all research shows a portion of boys will not be developmentally capable of reading until 7. Taking a child that is not developmentally capable of something and putting a remedial title on them and giving them extra lessons and support will not help them it will harm them - it is pointing at them saying "inadequate".

This is not about bairns who dont understand - this is about pushing children too far before they are ready. My son understood everything fine - he just did not get reading because his brain had not yet developed - if you consider that between 1 and 3% of boys will fall into this category it might give you and idea of how many are stuck thinking there is something wrong when actually it is perfectly normal. If you have a male child under 7 who understands his lessons, grasps concepts, etc but is simply slow to read (but can read individual letters) then please please please leave them alone - carry on reading to them, pointing at words with your finger but do not assess them or statement them or give them special support - wait until they are at least 3 months past 7 before doing an assessment because it is almost certain that it is a simple case of brain development.

You need to understand that the problems you encountered are not the ones others have encountered - and that what helped your child may be damaging to another.

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