Trump has floated assassination of Soleimani since 2017, according to reports that deal a blow to his claims otherwise

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Trump has floated assassination of Soleimani since 2017, according to reports that deal a blow to his claims otherwise Empty Trump has floated assassination of Soleimani since 2017, according to reports that deal a blow to his claims otherwise

Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:31 pm

The Trump administration’s argument that it killed Iranian military leader Qassem Soleimani to stop an “imminent” attack on Americans was just dealt another blow.

A pair of news reports claim that a) President Donald Trump was thinking about killing Soleimani as far back as spring 2017, and b) he went as far as authorizing a strike on Soleimani last June.

On Sunday, the Washington Post reported that Trump had “floated the possibility” of killing Soleimani in spring 2017, after Iranian-backed rebels in Yemen fired a missile at Riyadh, Saudi Arabia’s capital, just hours before Trump arrived in the country. Then-Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, however, reportedly advised against it, and no action was taken. (Mattis declined a request for comment.)

And on Monday, NBC News reported that Trump had authorized a strike on Soleimani in June 2019, but with conditions. Iran had just shot down a US military drone, and top aides like Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and then-national security adviser John Bolton pushed the president to take out the Iranian general in response. Trump authorized the hit with one important caveat: that action would come only if Iran killed an American.

That red line was crossed in late December, when an Iranian-backed militia killed a US contractor in Iraq. Trump officially signed off on the Soleimani operation after current Defense Secretary Mark Esper detailed his options — with the Pentagon chief making clear that he favored killing the general.

If true, these reports cast serious doubt on the administration’s claim that Soleimani was planning an “imminent” attack and killing him was the only way to stop it from happening.

https://www.vox.com/2020/1/13/21063527/trump-iran-soleimani-kill-wapo-nbc-news

So similar to finding out that Bush really wanted to invade Iraq since at least 1999 -- it's a bit creepy.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:29 pm

The death of Soleimani was one of the options Trump considered when the US drone was shot down. Trump openly admitted it was not a functional equivalent (the term he used is proportional response).

So, why is it now the functional equivalent to 'speculations' as to what Soleimani might be planning? Trump has no standards which he might carry from one discussion to the next. He is free-lancing it. He has no strategy, by which he would be guided.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:08 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
The Trump administration’s argument that it killed Iranian military leader Qassem Soleimani to stop an “imminent” attack on Americans was just dealt another blow.

A pair of news reports claim that a) President Donald Trump was thinking about killing Soleimani as far back as spring 2017, and b) he went as far as authorizing a strike on Soleimani last June.

On Sunday, the Washington Post reported that Trump had “floated the possibility” of killing Soleimani in spring 2017, after Iranian-backed rebels in Yemen fired a missile at Riyadh, Saudi Arabia’s capital, just hours before Trump arrived in the country. Then-Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, however, reportedly advised against it, and no action was taken. (Mattis declined a request for comment.)

And on Monday, NBC News reported that Trump had authorized a strike on Soleimani in June 2019, but with conditions. Iran had just shot down a US military drone, and top aides like Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and then-national security adviser John Bolton pushed the president to take out the Iranian general in response. Trump authorized the hit with one important caveat: that action would come only if Iran killed an American.

That red line was crossed in late December, when an Iranian-backed militia killed a US contractor in Iraq. Trump officially signed off on the Soleimani operation after current Defense Secretary Mark Esper detailed his options — with the Pentagon chief making clear that he favored killing the general.

If true, these reports cast serious doubt on the administration’s claim that Soleimani was planning an “imminent” attack and killing him was the only way to stop it from happening.

https://www.vox.com/2020/1/13/21063527/trump-iran-soleimani-kill-wapo-nbc-news

So similar to finding out that Bush really wanted to invade Iraq since at least 1999 -- it's a bit creepy.

I would hope this general was on any Presidents radar. The guy's job was to kill Americans and it's allies.


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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:47 am

Maddog wrote:The guy's job was to kill Americans and it's allies.

And obviously America's job is to kill Muslims and their allies. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Who lied to get it all started back in 2003?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:33 pm

Keeping someone on your radar is a bit different from nuking them from orbit...

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:25 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Keeping someone on your radar is a bit different from nuking them from orbit...

He was targeted in a foreign country after he organized the killing of an American and an attack on our embassy.

While it may end up being a bad idea, it's not an immoral act in the grand scheme of things. Its hoe the game is played.

Speaking of bad ideas, were you this concerned about Khadaffi?

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:22 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Keeping someone on your radar is a bit different from nuking them from orbit...

He was targeted in a foreign country after he organized the killing of an American and an attack on our embassy.

There was no attack on US embassies, nor was any immanent attack planned. As Lurker says:

Trump has floated assassination of Soleimani since 2017, according to reports that deal a blow to his claims otherwise The_bo10

It’s all made up after-the-fact, to make an act of war appear justified to Congress: Look over there, not over here. This is how you merge criminality with politics.

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Post by nicko on Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:57 pm

"no attack on American Embassies" ?
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Post by Maddog on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:08 pm

nicko wrote: "no attack on American Embassies" ?


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/02/world/middleeast/iraq-embassy-attack.html

Yeah, this is fake news.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:25 pm

nicko wrote: "no attack on American Embassies" ?

No, nothing immanent, as the law requires, 50 U.S.C. 1541–1548.  @ 1541:

50 USC 1541, et seq., as amended. wrote:(a)  Congressional declaration

It is the purpose of this chapter to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgment of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.

(b)  Congressional legislative power under necessary and proper clause

Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

(c)  Presidential executive power as Commander-in-Chief;  limitation

The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

In all cases. only Congress has the power to declare war or engage in warlike activities.  The president may act on his own, but only if the threat on the US is immanent.  As the cartoon says, crying "immanent" when there is no threat, is the same as the little boy who kept crying "wolf" when there was no threat of a wolf.

Trump was crying wolf when he murdered Soleimani, a warlike action.

It was a breach of the law. However, the remedy for Congress is to defund the military for the costs of any action, or more. Thus, the Executive Branch will have to fund it's own transgression.

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Post by Thorin on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:35 pm

So Trump did something new and now Iranians are demanding the fall of the Theocratic regime. No Third world war has started and Iran even worse took down a jet liner. The cracks are opening up

Again Trump had balls to act off a number of warnings. The Iranians refused to take heed and rightfully paid the consequence

Democrats Politicians would have instead dropped their trousers and offered their arsehole to be fist fucked again by the Iranian regime

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/11/protesters-call-supreme-leader-resign-iran-finally-admits-downing-airliner-12042404/

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:46 pm

Frankly, I don't like BJ. Under the above reasoning, BJ could be taken out by bombing Heathrow Airport while BJ is boarding an airplane. That's the equivalent of what Trump did, only in Iraq.

Most people, me included, don't think that is civilized behavior. And frankly, it's against International law, and US law.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:54 pm

Thorin wrote:So Trump did something new and now Iranians are demanding the fall of the Theocratic regime. No Third world war has started and Iran even worse took down a jet liner. The cracks are opening up

Again Trump had balls to act off a number of warnings. The Iranians refused to take heed and rightfully paid the consequence

Democrats Politicians would have instead dropped their trousers and offered their arsehole to be fist fucked again by the Iranian regime

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/11/protesters-call-supreme-leader-resign-iran-finally-admits-downing-airliner-12042404/

Trump really didn't do anything new. He killed an Iraqi General who was actively engaged in trying to or succeeding in killing Americans and American allies. It's not like he bombed this general in his own country. American forces are there to keep the peace in Iraq. While I think they should be gone, if they are there, anyone starting shit in Iraq, is fair game in that country. Especially foreign generals.

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Post by Thorin on Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:07 pm

Maddog wrote:
Thorin wrote:So Trump did something new and now Iranians are demanding the fall of the Theocratic regime. No Third world war has started and Iran even worse took down a jet liner. The cracks are opening up

Again Trump had balls to act off a number of warnings. The Iranians refused to take heed and rightfully paid the consequence

Democrats Politicians would have instead dropped their trousers and offered their arsehole to be fist fucked again by the Iranian regime

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/11/protesters-call-supreme-leader-resign-iran-finally-admits-downing-airliner-12042404/

Trump really didn't do anything new. He killed an Iraqi General who was actively engaged in trying to or succeeding in  killing Americans and American allies. It's not like he bombed this general in his own country. American forces are there to keep the peace in Iraq. While I think they should be gone, if they are there, anyone starting shit in Iraq, is fair game in that country. Especially foreign generals.

The point is it sent a major huge message, which clearly Iran has gotten. There has been no real retaliation (granted there still could be one) and there is valid reasons for this. Iran is suffering under sanction. From what I understand the Iranians have placed a leash on their militia groups. As they want take the heat off to get sanctions lifted. They would be dumb to organise another attack as, it will lead to more crippling airstrikes, this time hitting their infrastructure.

I agree to get the ground forces out, so yes lets do that

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:59 pm

phil wrote:Iran is suffering under sanction. From what I understand the Iranians have placed a leash on their militia groups. As they want take the heat off to get sanctions lifted.

There will be no lifting of sanctions on Iran.  Iran is too ingrained in the alt.right mythology.  Trump has a huge hard-on for Iran, if only because Iran is too associated with Obama, another of Trump's obsessions.  Iranians are the proverbial bad guys, black hats and boots. They always will be.

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