Iran sends missiles against US bases in Iraq...here we go again.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just released, short range missiles have just rained down on US bases in Iraq.  Trump, the guy who blustered to get out of foreign adventures, has just started another war.

You just knew that a guy with that personality, could not help but stumble into some sort of international disaster.

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Post by nicko on Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:04 am

Quill, I said it was a missile , you were adamant it wasn't. An apology would be nice !
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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:16 pm

Maddog wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/world/middleeast/missile-iran-plane-crash.html

Now Iran admits it.  Looks like Walter Mitty was wrong again.  

Isn't it refreshing that the Iranians are so honest and forthcoming, Redneck?  Unlike the Russo-Republicans, Iranians have integrity and admit their mistakes.

Imagine Trump doing that:

  It was Obama's missiles, left over from 2016!  

Rolling Eyes

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by nicko on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:14 pm

Just admit you were wrong and we'll forget it !
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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:08 pm

nicko wrote: Just admit you were wrong and we'll forget it !

The Iranians were honorable in informing the world. The Prime Minister of Canada is sending an investigating team. Canadians and Iranians working together...see what can be accomplished. Trump could learn.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:50 pm

Original Quill wrote:
nicko wrote: Just admit you were wrong and we'll forget it !

The Iranians were honorable in informing the world.  The Prime Minister of Canada is sending an investigating team.  Canadians and Iranians working together...see what can be accomplished.  Trump could learn.

The admission was forced out of them, Quill. Both the country's civil aviation authority and the military were saying repeatedly that it was "a big lie" and "psycological warfare" by the United States and there were independent reports that bulldozers were working on the wreckage site almost straight away before independent inspectors could reach the scene. Some reports even said that there was little if any security and local scavengers were taking what might obviously have been vital evidence.

It was not until it became patently obvious and widely reported by the world's Press and broadcasters that there was proven satellite intelligence showing two missile launches and an explosion and that a locally shot video showing two ascending streaks of light followed by a flash had appeared on social media that Iran finally admitted the blunder and apologised - though still trying to shift part of the blame on America.

I fully accept that it was a tragic mistake, but I very much doubt whether Iran's anti-aircraft missile batteries' radar control is so unsophisticated that it could not tell the difference between a small cruise missile and a bloody big Boeing 737 as they are now claiming!

And since they had launched more than 20 ballistic missiles against US bases only a few hours earlier, what the hell were they thinking of by allowing Teheran Airport to permit commercial aircraft take-offs?

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:10 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

The Iranians were honorable in informing the world.  The Prime Minister of Canada is sending an investigating team.  Canadians and Iranians working together...see what can be accomplished.  Trump could learn.

The admission was forced out of them, Quill. Both the country's civil aviation authority and the military were saying repeatedly that it was "a big lie" and "psycological warfare" by the United States and there were independent reports that bulldozers were working on the wreckage site almost straight away before independent inspectors could reach the scene. Some reports even said that there was little if any security and local scavengers were taking what might obviously have been vital evidence.

It was not until it became patently obvious and widely reported by the world's Press and broadcasters that there was proven satellite intelligence showing two missile launches and an explosion and that a locally shot video showing two ascending streaks of light followed by a flash had appeared on social media that Iran finally admitted the blunder and apologised - though still trying to shift part of the blame on America.

I fully accept that it was a tragic mistake, but I very much doubt whether Iran's anti-aircraft missile batteries' radar control is so unsophisticated that it could not tell the difference between a small cruise missile and a bloody big Boeing 737 as they are now claiming!

And since they had launched more than 20 ballistic missiles against US bases only a few hours earlier, what the hell were they thinking of by allowing Teheran Airport to permit commercial aircraft take-offs?

My point is that the Iranians admitted their mistake when all the facts were known. Now, could you imagine Trump admitting that the assassination of Soleimani was his blunder?

I think it shows the character of the two, one of whom reneges on agreements, acts rashly, and is an international killer...the other, an honest state actor.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by nicko on Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:04 pm

Never heard such bullshit in my life, for fuck sake Quill admit your wrong and don't keep making excuses for them. I thought you were more honest than this, seems I am sadly mistaken. In the future how can we believe anything you say ?
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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:02 am

nicko wrote:Never heard such bullshit in my life,   for fuck sake Quill admit your wrong and don't keep making excuses for them. I thought you were more honest than this, seems I am sadly mistaken. In the future how can we believe anything you say ?

Do you think it's worse than when I said occupying soldiers are baby killers?  That got you pretty hot.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

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Post by nicko on Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:42 am

No point arguing with you, you wont ever admit your wrong, I'll just go out and kill a few more Babies till you take your head from up your arse !
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:25 am

Original Quill wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

The admission was forced out of them, Quill. Both the country's civil aviation authority and the military were saying repeatedly that it was "a big lie" and "psycological warfare" by the United States and there were independent reports that bulldozers were working on the wreckage site almost straight away before independent inspectors could reach the scene. Some reports even said that there was little if any security and local scavengers were taking what might obviously have been vital evidence.

It was not until it became patently obvious and widely reported by the world's Press and broadcasters that there was proven satellite intelligence showing two missile launches and an explosion and that a locally shot video showing two ascending streaks of light followed by a flash had appeared on social media that Iran finally admitted the blunder and apologised - though still trying to shift part of the blame on America.

I fully accept that it was a tragic mistake, but I very much doubt whether Iran's anti-aircraft missile batteries' radar control is so unsophisticated that it could not tell the difference between a small cruise missile and a bloody big Boeing 737 as they are now claiming!

And since they had launched more than 20 ballistic missiles against US bases only a few hours earlier, what the hell were they thinking of by allowing Teheran Airport to permit commercial aircraft take-offs?

My point is that the Iranians admitted their mistake when all the facts were known.  Now, could you imagine Trump admitting that the assassination of Soleimani was his blunder?

I think it shows the character of the two, one of whom reneges on agreements, acts rashly, and is an international killer...the other, an honest state actor.
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:53 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

My point is that the Iranians admitted their mistake when all the facts were known.  Now, could you imagine Trump admitting that the assassination of Soleimani was his blunder?

I think it shows the character of the two, one of whom reneges on agreements, acts rashly, and is an international killer...the other, an honest state actor.

To describe the Iranians as "an honest state actor" makes about as much sense as describing Dracula as an appropriate manager of a blood bank.

Those two SAMs would not have been launched without an order from a senior officer, and if both the launch and the strike were monitored by a US surveillance satellite the incident MUST have been monitored by both the launch crew and their battalion or regimental HQ.

And why were bulldozers being used to attempt to clear debris from the crash site by first light according to many eye witness reports? An "honest" administration would never have allowed that to happen if it did not have something to hide.


Apparently Teheran airport control tower reported at a very early stage that no radio communication, let alone a mayday transmission, had been received and this alone tends to give lie to the immediate claim that it must have been a technical malfunction and that the aircraft has attempting to return to the airport. The two things don't add up; if the pilot had time to turn the aircraft round his co-pilot would have had time to at least send a mayday signal.

OK, so it was a tragic error...but your "honest state actors" through their civil aviation chief were desperately trying to hide the truth and blame non-existent US cruise missiles until they realised that they would be bound to give full access to the Ukrainian authorities at the very least.



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Post by nicko on Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:55 pm

Should target their Leader now, in for a Penny etc !
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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:01 pm

Fred M. wrote:Those two SAMs would not have been launched without an order from a senior officer, and if both the launch and the strike were monitored by a US surveillance satellite the incident MUST have been monitored by both the launch crew and their battalion or regimental HQ.

And yet, you, yourself go on to state that "no radio communication" was taking place. How could a "senior officer' have ordered the launch? There were ten take-offs that morning before the tragedy with the Ukraine airliner, and no missile was launched at them. It's appears to have been a tragic accident.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:05 pm

nicko wrote: Should target their Leader now, in for a Penny etc !

Or, their children. Isn't that usually how it's done? Wars are started by old men, but they are waged by the young.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:20 pm

Fred M. wrote:The two things don't add up; if the pilot had time to turn the aircraft round his co-pilot would have had time to at least send a mayday signal.

Not necessarily. If the pilot saw the missiles climbing and realized what was happening, it takes about a second to push the rudder and bank the plane. There would be no time for communication between the pilot and co-pilot, let alone for a m'aidez to go out...especially if the pilot were preoccupied with evasive maneuvers.

Once the plane is redirected, inertia causes it to go in the direction it's told. Thus, if the northbound aircraft took a right turn, the wreckage would head east, which it did.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Eilzel on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:20 pm

nicko wrote: Should target their Leader now, in for a Penny etc !

They absolutely shouldn't. Regime change by a foreign power ends badly.

Do you see the Iranian people on the streets in their thousands demanding the supreme leader step down?

Let the people of the country bring change themselves, much cleaner that way.

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:34 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred M. wrote:Those two SAMs would not have been launched without an order from a senior officer, and if both the launch and the strike were monitored by a US surveillance satellite the incident MUST have been monitored by both the launch crew and their battalion or regimental HQ.

And yet, you, yourself go on to state that "no radio communication" was taking place.  How could a "senior officer' have ordered the launch?    There were ten take-offs that morning before the tragedy with the Ukraine airliner, and no missile was launched at them.  It's appears to have been a tragic accident.

I fail to get your point. The fact that there was no radio communication between the aircraft and the control tower is totally separate to any military signal authorising the launch of the missiles .They would not have been on the same frequency anyway.

The SAMs were probably vehicle mounted and the crew would not have launched without orders.

No-one is doubting that it was a tragic accident; it was Iran's initial insistence, backed up by their accusations that the Western powers were guilty of lying and conducting "psychological warfare", that is in question.

And as events are unfolding, it now seems that ordinary Iranian people are demonstrating against their own government's action.
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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:39 pm

Fred M. wrote:I fail to get your point. The fact that there was no radio communication between the aircraft and the control tower is totally separate to any military signal authorising the launch of the missiles .They would not have been on the same frequency anyway.

Perhaps. But I tend to think that if the US can detect the trajectory of two short-range SAM's, some 7,500 miles around the world, they would have the capability to pick up the order that prompted it.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:44 pm

Fred M. wrote:And as events are unfolding, it now seems that ordinary Iranian people are demonstrating against their own government's action.

That's another matter. I daresay, Trump probably helped the Iranian government to rally the citizens, where they were otherwise having quite a difficult time of it.

The sophisticated approach would have been to let the whole thing implode. But, Trump lives to inflict pain, and he likes the visceral feeling of causing the pain directly.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:18 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred M. wrote:The two things don't add up; if the pilot had time to turn the aircraft round his co-pilot would have had time to at least send a mayday signal.

Not necessarily.  If the pilot saw the missiles climbing and realized what was happening, it takes about a second to push the rudder and bank the plane.  There would be no time for communication between the pilot and co-pilot, let alone for a m'aidez to go out...especially if the pilot were preoccupied with evasive maneuvers.

Once the plane is redirected, inertia causes it to go in the direction it's told.  Thus, if the northbound aircraft took a right turn, the wreckage would head east, which it did.

Simply pushing the rudder, or stabiliser, of an aircraft does not cause it to bank.

That is achieved by operating the ailerons on one wing  downwards and the other wing up causing the aircraft  to roll in one direction or another'

The rudder's purpose is simply to keep the nose of the aircraft in the correct direction by countering something called adverse yaw - the tendency of the aircraft to "revolve"  on its own axis as it banks.

Now I don't have a clue about how to fly a 737, but I don't think that the principles of flight can be much different to those of a De Havilland Chipmunk or an Avro Anson that I was taught 60 years ago!

Oh, and pilot and co-pilot are in constant conversation from take off to gear up and, most probably, to cruising height. The co-pilot would almost certainly have been trained to hit the emergency distress in a split second when a need arose.

All the evidence points to a catastrophic explosion.


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Post by Maddog on Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:19 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

And yet, you, yourself go on to state that "no radio communication" was taking place.  How could a "senior officer' have ordered the launch?    There were ten take-offs that morning before the tragedy with the Ukraine airliner, and no missile was launched at them.  It's appears to have been a tragic accident.

I fail to get your point. The fact that there was no radio communication between the aircraft and the control tower is totally separate to any military signal authorising the launch of the missiles .They would not have been on the same frequency anyway.

The SAMs were probably vehicle mounted and the crew would not have launched without orders.

No-one is doubting that it was a tragic accident; it was Iran's initial insistence, backed up by their accusations that the Western powers were guilty of lying and conducting "psychological warfare", that is in question.

And as events are unfolding, it now seems that ordinary Iranian people are demonstrating against their own government's action.

Between the funeral and this missile attack on a plane the Iranians seem to be the biggest threat to the Iranians.


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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:34 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred M. wrote:And as events are unfolding, it now seems that ordinary Iranian people are demonstrating against their own government's action.

That's another matter.  I daresay, Trump probably helped the Iranian government to rally the citizens, where they were otherwise having quite a difficult time of it.

The sophisticated approach would have been to let the whole thing implode.  But, Trump lives to inflict pain, and he likes the visceral feeling of causing the pain directly.

You may well be right about Trump, but I wouldn't care to express an opinion on that because I am not a psychologist.

Having said that, I can see that taking out a military commander who is said to be personally responsible for much of the world's proxy fundamentalist terrorism and who may well have been behind other attacks including that on the US embassy is little different to and equally as justified as Obama's successful strike against Bin Laden.

With hindsight, however, I agree with you that with domestic opposition to the Theocratic dictatorship in Iran already mounting he might well have been best advised to keep out of it and let matters take what increasingly appears to be a natural course.
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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:55 pm

Fred M. wrote:You may well be right about Trump, but I wouldn't care to express an opinion on that because I am not a psychologist.

I don't think you have to be a psychologist to understand a politician's policies, nor even his style. I realize that there is a lot of talk out there about Trump and dementia, but until there is an actual, professional diagnosis, and a court decree, we need to take him at his word.

His word, over three years of repeated history, tells us that he is a counter-puncher, who hasn't an ounce of compassion or humanism, and that he lives solely for the sake of schadenfreude.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:08 pm

Fred M. wrote:Having said that, I can see that taking out a military commander who is said to be personally responsible for much of the world's proxy fundamentalist terrorism and who may well have been behind other attacks including that on the US embassy is little different to and equally as justified as Obama's successful strike against Bin Laden.

Taking out a solo actor who causes trouble is much different than taking out a state actor who causes trouble. The solo actor is not acting on behalf of a nation state, and can be treated more-or-less as a criminal. However, a state actor carries the weight of the nation state behind him.

Trump might well have put us in a state of war with Iran. Remember, he promised to withdraw from the ME, saying he was opposed to endless wars. Taking him at his word, this is the classic stumbling over himself. He has no strategic plan, and as a result he bounces around like a ball in a pinball machine.

Like a bull in a china shop…only it matters what you break.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:27 pm

Fred M. wrote:Simply pushing the rudder, or stabiliser, of an aircraft does not cause it to bank.

I know how the controls of an aircraft work.  Note I said "push the rudder and bank the plane..."  "And" expresses a conjunction, so that it is two things: rudder and banking. I was not suggesting that one causes the other.

More to the point, both control maneuvers can be done in the same second.  The actual point is that such action takes far less than the time it would take to transmit a m'aidez, even had the pilot and co-pilot had opportunity to talk about it.  Thus, the action putting the aircraft debris to the east took far less time than broadcasting a distress call.

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:02 pm

Maddog wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

I fail to get your point. The fact that there was no radio communication between the aircraft and the control tower is totally separate to any military signal authorising the launch of the missiles .They would not have been on the same frequency anyway.

The SAMs were probably vehicle mounted and the crew would not have launched without orders.

No-one is doubting that it was a tragic accident; it was Iran's initial insistence, backed up by their accusations that the Western powers were guilty of lying and conducting "psychological warfare", that is in question.

And as events are unfolding, it now seems that ordinary Iranian people are demonstrating against their own government's action.

Between the funeral and this missile attack on a plane the Iranians seem to be the biggest threat to the Iranians.


They're a pretty volatile lot...now they are out on the streets chanting "Death to Britain."

Mind you, they always seem to be chanting "death to..." somebody or another. If it ain't the USA, it's Israel. If in ain't Israel it's Britain. If it ain't Britain it will probably be France, Germany, Lichtenstein, Guinea Bissau..............

If there were an Olympic Games category for chanting and flag-waving, the Iranians would be world champions.
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:09 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred M. wrote:Simply pushing the rudder, or stabiliser, of an aircraft does not cause it to bank.

I know how the controls of an aircraft work.  Note I said "push the rudder and bank the plane..."  "And" expresses a conjunction, so that it is two things: rudder and banking.  I was not suggesting that one causes the other.

More to the point, both control maneuvers can be done in the same second.  The actual point is that such action takes far less than the time it would take to transmit a m'aidez, even had the pilot and co-pilot had opportunity to talk about it.  Thus, the action putting the aircraft debris to the east took far less time than broadcasting a distress call.

So do I. I was simply pointing out that ailerons and not a rudder make an aircraft bank. I may have learned Principles of Flight during my days as an Air Training Corps cadet and aircrew selection candidate for the RAF many, many years ago, but like riding a bike, once learned they are never forgotten.

Anyway, I can hone up on them in four weeks' time...my 80th birthday present from the family was an hour "flying" a wartime Spitfire Mk1X....sadly only a simulator bolted firmly to the ground.
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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:12 pm

Fred M. wrote:I was simply pointing out that ailerons and not a rudder make an aircraft bank.

So, you agree with me that you have to do both turn and bank, independently.  Actually, to turn in an airplane, you need not only the rudder and the banking, but lift as well, to compensate for loss of altitude that the maneuver causes.  That's three controls, all of which can be done simultaneously...and can be done in the split second between seeing the SAM's and responding.

Recall you said:

Fred M. wrote:The two things don't add up; if the pilot had time to turn the aircraft round his co-pilot would have had time to at least send a mayday signal.

The real point here is that there would not be enough time in that same split second to have a back-and-forth dialogue with one's co-pilot about making a distress call.  That takes several seconds if not minutes. Then you have to make the distress call itself.  So, no, there would not have been enough time to send the m'aidez call in the same span.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Maddog on Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:50 pm

The short story deals with a vague and mild-mannered man who drives into Waterbury, Connecticut, with his wife for their regular weekly shopping and his wife's visit to the beauty parlor. During this time he has five heroic daydream episodes. The first is as a pilot of a U.S. Navy flying boat in a storm, then he is a magnificent surgeon performing a one-of-a-kind surgery, then as a deadly assassin testifying in a courtroom, and then as a Royal Air Force pilot volunteering for a daring, secret suicide mission to bomb an ammunition dump. As the story ends, Mitty imagines himself facing a firing squad, "inscrutable to the last." Each of the fantasies is inspired by some detail of Mitty's mundane surroundings:

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:40 pm

Maddog wrote:The short story deals with a vague and mild-mannered man who drives into Waterbury, Connecticut, with his wife for their regular weekly shopping and his wife's visit to the beauty parlor. During this time he has five heroic daydream episodes. The first is as a pilot of a U.S. Navy flying boat in a storm, then he is a magnificent surgeon performing a one-of-a-kind surgery, then as a deadly assassin testifying in a courtroom, and then as a Royal Air Force pilot volunteering for a daring, secret suicide mission to bomb an ammunition dump. As the story ends, Mitty imagines himself facing a firing squad, "inscrutable to the last." Each of the fantasies is inspired by some detail of Mitty's mundane surroundings:

Absolutely correct, Maddog. An exercise in semantics over the terminology of Principles of Flight must be incredibly boring for anyone (probably everyone) who has no interest in the subject.

Quill, for all I know, may be a qualified pilot with a PPL; I, on the other hand am just someone who didn't make the grade in flight training 60 years ago. You pays your money and you takes your choice!

Whatever happened, regardless of whichever combination of yoke and pedals was used on the flight deck of that airliner, some stupid Iranian Revolutionary Guard bastard on the ground launched a couple of missiles that killed a hell of a lot of innocent people - needlessly.
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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:10 pm

Fred, I think Redneck's post is meant for me, not you.  Red always returns to the same theme: he mocks anyone who has achieved more than him.

Essentially, it's his jealousy and low self-esteem.  Anyone who has achieved more than his mundane existence, is allegedly "showing him up."  So, he takes the position that it could never happen.  It’s denial.

It's better than other subjects he would open up on.  He is a rank southerner. How would you like a diatribe on how the Negroid race is inferior?  Or, how you should carry a handgun into your wife's birthing room.  Better for us that he hides those views.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:03 am

Original Quill wrote:Fred, I think Redneck's post is meant for me, not you.  Red always returns to the same theme: he mocks anyone who has achieved more than him.

Essentially, it's his jealousy and low self-esteem.  Anyone who has achieved more than his mundane existence, is allegedly "showing him up."  So, he takes the position that it could never happen.  It’s denial.

It's better than other subjects he would open up on.  He is a rank southerner.  How would you like a diatribe on how the Negroid race is inferior?  Or, how you should carry a handgun into your wife's birthing room.  Better for us that he hides those views.

Oh dear. Is the Civil War about to be re-run?
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Post by Maddog on Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:28 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Fred, I think Redneck's post is meant for me, not you.  Red always returns to the same theme: he mocks anyone who has achieved more than him.

Essentially, it's his jealousy and low self-esteem.  Anyone who has achieved more than his mundane existence, is allegedly "showing him up."  So, he takes the position that it could never happen.  It’s denial.

It's better than other subjects he would open up on.  He is a rank southerner.  How would you like a diatribe on how the Negroid race is inferior?  Or, how you should carry a handgun into your wife's birthing room.  Better for us that he hides those views.

Oh dear. Is the Civil War about to be re-run?

Quill will be leading a squadron of A-10 Warthogs when it does. Or at least we will be writing about it. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:43 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Fred, I think Redneck's post is meant for me, not you. Red always returns to the same theme: he mocks anyone who has achieved more than him.

Essentially, it's his jealousy and low self-esteem. Anyone who has achieved more than his mundane existence, is allegedly "showing him up." So, he takes the position that it could never happen. It’s denial.

It's better than other subjects he would open up on. He is a rank southerner. How would you like a diatribe on how the Negroid race is inferior? Or, how you should carry a handgun into your wife's birthing room. Better for us that he hides those views.

Oh dear. Is the Civil War about to be re-run?

If you've been reading my posts, Fred, you know that the civil war was a symptom, not a cause. America has always been two countries...two cultures 1) a progressive manufacturing and mercantile north; 2) a regressive, cash-cropping agrarian south, for which slavery provided the engine. From 1792 to 1860 this pot stewed, until it boiled over with the civil war.

The American civil war never established anything. Reconstruction was a farce. Lincoln, the only force of reconciliation, was murdered. And Andrew Johnson, an avowed slaver from North Carolina/Tennessee, became president. It was a mess. If anything, with the pandering of Republicans, the south has increased its racist, violence-prone, ignorant ways and the civil war was never more than a bump in the road.

So, yes, something is about to be re-run. But it is much deeper than the civil war. It's good vs. evil, with the south trying to make evil look like a perfumed, dressed-up pig turd.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:51 pm

Iran sends missiles against US bases in Iraq...here we go again. - Page 2 300px-A-10_-_32156159151

Wiki wrote:The Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II is a single-seat, twin turbofan engine, straight wing jet aircraft developed by Fairchild-Republic for the United States Air Force (USAF).

It is commonly referred to by the nicknames "Warthog" or "Hog", although the A-10's official name comes from the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, a World War II fighter-bomber effective at attacking ground targets.

The A-10 was designed for close air support (CAS) of friendly ground troops, attacking armored vehicles and tanks, and providing quick-action support against enemy ground forces.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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