A POUND FOR YOUR THOUGHTS British - People Attempt To Guess The Cost Of American Health Care, Are Shocked When They Hear The Answers

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Post by Thorin on Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:51 am

First topic message reminder :

News website Joe interviewed young Brits on the street, and asked them about the price of health care in the United States. When the actual price tag is revealed, they are flabbergasted to learn the costs of various things that they take for granted. Watch:


https://digg.com/2019/british-people-attempt-to-guess-the-cost-of-american-health-care



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Post by Maddog on Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:17 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I know how insurance works.  But glad you simplified it.  Just pay for your own insurance, problem solved.  It's not like its optional under a nationalized plan anyway.  

Wait. You PAY FOR IT NOW, yet you want to bitch about a system under which you would continue to pay for it, but spend a lot less than $500/month?

Best I can tell, you're paying at least double what the average Canadian pays, perhaps even up to four times as much.

That is some really "original" thinking there.

I would pay more than 500 a month in additional taxes in Canada, or with Medicare for all.

Unlike insurance which is tied to risk, taxes are tied to income.

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Post by Maddog on Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:28 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:


You need to expand your circle of friends.  

Costs almost always rise for services, especially if you want a higher level of service.  I'm trying to think of a service that has gotten cheaper over the past few years.  Cant think of one.  

The problem with US healthcare is that the government has made it extremely complicated and convoluted.  Which is hardly a surprise.  

In fairness, I'm not American and don't live in America.

Among Brit friends there are Tories, Brexiteers, Liberals and Greens.

My American friends I've made here in Thailand or when travelling in other countries.

Perhaps Americans who travel just tend to be more likely to be liberal and open to socialy democratic ideas. At least that is my unanimous experience.

And it really doesn't surprise me at all.

No doubt your sample size of Americans is small. It appears you have friends of other political persuasions than your own, from other countries.

There is probably some truth to the idea that liberals travel more outside of the US than conservatives, especially to places like Thailand.

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:46 pm

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:


You need to expand your circle of friends.  

Costs almost always rise for services, especially if you want a higher level of service.  I'm trying to think of a service that has gotten cheaper over the past few years.  Cant think of one.  

The problem with US healthcare is that the government has made it extremely complicated and convoluted.  Which is hardly a surprise.  

In fairness, I'm not American and don't live in America.

Among Brit friends there are Tories, Brexiteers, Liberals and Greens.

My American friends I've made here in Thailand or when travelling in other countries.

Perhaps Americans who travel just tend to be more likely to be liberal and open to socialy democratic ideas. At least that is my unanimous experience.

And it really doesn't surprise me at all.

No doubt your sample size of Americans is small. It appears you have friends of other political persuasions than your own, from other countries.  

There is probably some truth to the idea that liberals travel more outside of the US than conservatives, especially to places like Thailand.  

I'd say around twenty, from places ranging from California and New York, to Georgia, North Carolina and Kansas. And ages ranging from around 24 to 50, so a pretty broad range if a small sample size. And this is just those I consider friends, I'm not including acquaintances, and being in Thailand for the whole Trump presidency has meant politics is a topic that often crops up.

Yeah I think liberals being more like to travel is given, especially given the conservative stereotype of foreign being considered at least worse than home if not outright bad lol

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Post by Maddog on Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:13 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

No doubt your sample size of Americans is small. It appears you have friends of other political persuasions than your own, from other countries.  

There is probably some truth to the idea that liberals travel more outside of the US than conservatives, especially to places like Thailand.  

I'd say around twenty, from places ranging from California and New York, to Georgia, North Carolina and Kansas. And ages ranging from around 24 to 50, so a pretty broad range if a small sample size. And this is just those I consider friends, I'm not including acquaintances, and being in Thailand for the whole Trump presidency has meant politics is a topic that often crops up.

Yeah I think liberals being more like to travel is given, especially given the conservative stereotype of foreign being considered at least worse than home if not outright bad lol

You will find plenty of conservatives or non political types in the Caribbean or Mexico. They have a different idea of a vacation. In fact they don't really use the word "travel".

But there is no doubt a stronger bias against "different cultures" amongst conservatives.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:00 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I know how insurance works.  But glad you simplified it.  Just pay for your own insurance, problem solved.  It's not like its optional under a nationalized plan anyway.  

Wait. You PAY FOR IT NOW, yet you want to bitch about a system under which you would continue to pay for it, but spend a lot less than $500/month?

Best I can tell, you're paying at least double what the average Canadian pays, perhaps even up to four times as much.

That is some really "original" thinking there.

I would pay more than 500 a month in additional taxes in Canada, or with Medicare for all.  

Unlike insurance which is tied to risk, taxes are tied to income.

Sources, please. I've seen plenty of sources that say that $500 in Canadian currency insures a family of four, including supplemental private insurance. And $500 U.S. is well over $650 Canadian.

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Post by Maddog on Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:45 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I would pay more than 500 a month in additional taxes in Canada, or with Medicare for all.  

Unlike insurance which is tied to risk, taxes are tied to income.

Sources, please. I've seen plenty of sources that say that $500 in Canadian currency insures a family of four, including supplemental private insurance. And $500 U.S. is well over $650 Canadian.

I've done the math before.

Do you really think everyone in Canada pays the same for insurance?

Do you think everyone in the US pays the same for their social security and medicare taxes?


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Post by Maddog on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:05 pm

To help inform such discussions, we used publically available tax and health-care expenditure data to calculate how much different types of families will pay for public health-care insurance this year. We estimate that the average Canadian family (two parents, two children) earning $119,082 will pay $11,735 for public health-care insurance in 2015. Meanwhile, a single individual earning $42,244 will pay $4,222.

As one would expect, there’s a great deal of variation in the amount paid for health care by families earning different levels of income. For example, the 10 per cent of Canadian families with the lowest incomes will pay an average of about $477 for public health care, while families among the top 10 per cent of income earners in Canada will pay $37,180.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-health-care-in-Canada

I can't find what I will pay as a single person making more than twice the $42,244 figure, but it will be far more than $5,500 I pay now, with much longer waits. My GP saw something she didn't like on an x-ray last month. I saw a cardiologist less than 24 hours later and a had a full stress test.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:34 pm

Maddog wrote:To help inform such discussions, we used publically available tax and health-care expenditure data to calculate how much different types of families will pay for public health-care insurance this year. We estimate that the average Canadian family (two parents, two children) earning $119,082 will pay $11,735 for public health-care insurance in 2015. Meanwhile, a single individual earning $42,244 will pay $4,222.

As one would expect, there’s a great deal of variation in the amount paid for health care by families earning different levels of income. For example, the 10 per cent of Canadian families with the lowest incomes will pay an average of about $477 for public health care, while families among the top 10 per cent of income earners in Canada will pay $37,180.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-health-care-in-Canada

I can't find what I will pay as a single person making more than twice the $42,244 figure, but it will be far more than $5,500 I pay now, with much longer waits. My GP saw something she didn't like on an x-ray last month. I saw a cardiologist less than 24 hours later and a had a full stress test.      

Individual results may vary, but the stats don't lie. Countries with national health insurance have healthier people than our country does.

And of course wealthier people pay more in tax. Should they pay the same as someone making a tenth of what they earn?

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Post by eddie on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:40 pm

See. This is my point in the “Les apology thread”.

Nobody can agree on facts....

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Post by Maddog on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:52 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:To help inform such discussions, we used publically available tax and health-care expenditure data to calculate how much different types of families will pay for public health-care insurance this year. We estimate that the average Canadian family (two parents, two children) earning $119,082 will pay $11,735 for public health-care insurance in 2015. Meanwhile, a single individual earning $42,244 will pay $4,222.

As one would expect, there’s a great deal of variation in the amount paid for health care by families earning different levels of income. For example, the 10 per cent of Canadian families with the lowest incomes will pay an average of about $477 for public health care, while families among the top 10 per cent of income earners in Canada will pay $37,180.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-health-care-in-Canada

I can't find what I will pay as a single person making more than twice the $42,244 figure, but it will be far more than $5,500 I pay now, with much longer waits. My GP saw something she didn't like on an x-ray last month. I saw a cardiologist less than 24 hours later and a had a full stress test.      

Individual results may vary, but the stats don't lie. Countries with national health insurance have healthier people than our country does.

And of course wealthier people pay more in tax. Should they pay the same as someone making a tenth of what they earn?

Should wealthier people pay more for all forms of insurance?

Not that it matters the least bit to you, but I will not pay less like you suggested.

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Post by Maddog on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:55 pm

eddie wrote:See. This is my point in the “Les apology thread”.

Nobody can agree on facts....

The fact's are not nailed down. I haven't said how much I earn, so it's hard to determine what I would pay in Canada, and for what type of service.

As for what it would cost here, you could ask every person at the next Dem debate and get that many different answers.

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Post by Maddog on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:57 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I would pay more than 500 a month in additional taxes in Canada, or with Medicare for all.  

Unlike insurance which is tied to risk, taxes are tied to income.

Sources, please. I've seen plenty of sources that say that $500 in Canadian currency insures a family of four, including supplemental private insurance. And $500 U.S. is well over $650 Canadian.

So for the record, the numbers you quote are for a family of four, making far below the average.

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