Drop the term Anglo-Saxon as it is ‘bound up with white supremacy’, say academics

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Post by phildidge on Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:22 pm

Academics have called for the term Anglo-Saxon to be dropped because it is “bound up with white supremacy” — an idea described as “mad as a bag of ferrets” by one historian.

The term traditionally refers to groups from across the North Sea, including Angles and Saxons, who settled in Britain after the end of Roman rule, and to their descendants and their culture until the Norman Conquest.

However, it has also been used by imperialists and white-supremacists to describe white people of British origin. Hitler wrote admiringly of “Anglo-Saxon determination” to hold India. Some academics believe that the term is not only tainted by these associations but is also historically inaccurate.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drop-the-term-anglo-saxon-as-it-is-bound-up-with-white-supremacy-say-academics-d66dlztfj



The best response to this idocy, was by Historian and author Tom Holland. Who is very left wing to say the least but sums up dumb this view is.

Tom Holland wrote:
Ffs - you don’t take “problems with white supremacy seriously” by ceding a phrase used by our most heroic & admirable king to racists, & replacing it with a word profoundly inadequate to explicating the complexities of how an Anglian/Saxon polity emerged.

To reiterate: anyone not driven mad by spending too long in the hothouse of a US humanities department can recognise that when French economists, American Nazis & British archaeologists use the phrase ‘Anglo-Saxon’, they all mean different things by it. It’s really not difficult.

The only way that will change is if academics persist in waving the white flag (sic), surrendering the use of the phrase, & allowing racists to take possession of it.

Not least because ‘English’ is already the word that white racists in England tend to use to describe themselves, whereas for most people in this country ‘Anglo-Saxons’ = the losers who got shat on at the battle of Hastings

Plus, of course, describing the early Anglian & Saxon kingdoms as ‘English’ would be as anachronistic & distorting as describing Clovis as ‘French’.

The very contingency of the term ‘Anglo-Saxon’, the way it was constructed by Alfred to signify the emergent kingdom of what would become England, & to be back-projected onto an imagined past, is what makes it so useful.

It’s basically a projection of an academic culture war in the US onto the very different circumstances prevailing in this country. One might almost call it colonialist.

https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/1192703551090417664

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:00 pm

phil wrote:Academics have called for the term Anglo-Saxon to be dropped because it is “bound up with white supremacy” — an idea described as “mad as a bag of ferrets” by one historian.

I doubt this.  Sounds strawman. Any links?  Your OP offers nothing.

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Post by phildidge on Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:Academics have called for the term Anglo-Saxon to be dropped because it is “bound up with white supremacy” — an idea described as “mad as a bag of ferrets” by one historian.

I doubt this.  Sounds strawman.  Any links?  Your OP offers nothing.

The term Anglo-Saxon is 'bound up with white supremacy' and should be replaced with 'early English', academics have argued.

Anglo-Saxon traditionally refers to groups from Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands who settled in Britain at the end of Roman rule.

However, early medieval England specialist Mary Rambaran-Olm, an independent scholar and author, claimed the term is used by white supremacists to refer to white British people and should be banned.

The academic – raised in Canada and now based in Ireland – says previous objections to the term Dark Ages sets a precedent.

She told The Times: 'Generally, white supremacists use the term to make some sort of connection to their heritage (which is inaccurate) or to make associations with 'whiteness' but they also habitually misuse it to try and connect themselves to a warrior past.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7663127/Academic-says-Anglo-Saxon-dropped-links-white-supremacy.html

Sounds more like you are an idiot

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:33 pm

I think it's idiotic that anybody would think "racism" when they hear either "Anglo-Saxon" or "English."

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Post by eddie on Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:34 pm

Oh I wish people would just fuck off with their offended ways. I am sure people look for problems where none exist.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:44 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I doubt this.  Sounds strawman.  Any links?  Your OP offers nothing.

The term Anglo-Saxon is 'bound up with white supremacy' and should be replaced with 'early English', academics have argued.

Anglo-Saxon traditionally refers to groups from Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands who settled in Britain at the end of Roman rule.

However, early medieval England specialist Mary Rambaran-Olm, an independent scholar and author, claimed the term is used by white supremacists to refer to white British people and should be banned.

The academic – raised in Canada and now based in Ireland – says previous objections to the term Dark Ages sets a precedent.

She told The Times: 'Generally, white supremacists use the term to make some sort of connection to their heritage (which is inaccurate) or to make associations with 'whiteness' but they also habitually misuse it to try and connect themselves to a warrior past.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7663127/Academic-says-Anglo-Saxon-dropped-links-white-supremacy.html

Sounds more like you are an idiot

So, you are afraid of me.  What else is new?  I asked for some links.  You give a whole crock of shit, before finally nailing down one exemplar...some Irish teacher with a bazaar and esoteric idea..

It is apparently one person's thesis, and not a movement as your title suggests.  Whoops...there goes your whole thread.

You can't generalize from a single specific.  Try harder.

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:Academics have called for the term Anglo-Saxon to be dropped because it is “bound up with white supremacy” — an idea described as “mad as a bag of ferrets” by one historian.

I doubt this.  Sounds strawman.  Any links?  Your OP offers nothing.

Sadly this is the sort of unmitigated tripe that some of our so-called academics are prone to come out with from time to time.

Perhaps this so-called "academic" was so intent on getting her somewhat exotic surname and politically correct credentials more widely recognised that she failed to spot the word "Anglo" as being of both relevance and necessity in recording the ethnic background of those of us whose families have been around here since the fourth century.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:50 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I doubt this.  Sounds strawman.  Any links?  Your OP offers nothing.

Sadly this is the sort of unmitigated tripe that some of our so-called academics are prone to come out with from time to time.

Perhaps this so-called "academic" was so intent on getting her somewhat exotic surname and politically correct credentials more widely recognised that she failed to spot the word "Anglo" as being of both relevance and necessity in recording the ethnic background of those of us whose families have been around here since the fourth century.

She's got a thesis and a perspective, and I don't begrudge her that. I don't agree with it, and so I won't sign on.

But for Christ sake, this thread advertised it was some sort of movement. Now it pisses down to one person with a crazy idea.

You can't generalize from specifics. It's one wacko teacher, that's all.

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:55 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Sadly this is the sort of unmitigated tripe that some of our so-called academics are prone to come out with from time to time.

Perhaps this so-called "academic" was so intent on getting her somewhat exotic surname and politically correct credentials more widely recognised that she failed to spot the word "Anglo" as being of both relevance and necessity in recording the ethnic background of those of us whose families have been around here since the fourth century.

She's got a thesis and a perspective, and I don't begrudge her that.  I don't agree with it, and so I won't sign on.

But for Christ sake, this thread advertised it was some sort of movement.  Now it pisses down to one person with a crazy idea.

You can't generalize from specifics.  It's one wacko teacher, that's all.

Perhaps not, but as an Anglo-Saxon I enjoyed having my own two penn'orth of eccentricity.
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Post by Vintage on Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:06 pm

People have as much right to describe themselves as Anglo Saxon as do any other ethnic groups description of themselves, in different parts of the world various ethnic groups have exerted control over other ethnic groups, it just depends where you happened to be at the time. Therefore you can call anyone (insert skin colour here) supremasists, it all depends on what era you happen to be experiencing and what place in the world. Constantly seeing yourself as a victim because you aren't supreme in a particular era or place is never going to help you, get up on your hind legs and bring yourself up to speed and join in. There's always been supremastists whether the same/similar or different colour/religion/ideology to you, whether the same gender as you, depending on where you are on the planet or what era you exist in. There comes a time for every person to rise above this, take the opportunities that are there for you, many people have decided not to be a victim and take the opportunities and join in, I suppose you have to play the game as it is. The majority of people seem to want to meet you on equal terms if indeed that's what you want as well, by not being a victim and wanting special treatment, especially in Europe, I'm not sure its the same story in the US, maybe someone (Quill) will enlighten me.

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:02 am

A small few academics have mentioned this because they can get some easy attention and stir up a debate, it won't go anywhere because it is silly. They almost certainly know it won't go anywhere too.

No real news here, just more rage over small things that people said.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:11 am

Suspect

The links to that article lead nowhere, down here (the Times probably wants it's overseas readers to subscribe..).

Whenever I see stories like this, I'm left wondering :

"What 'academics' were they ?"
"How many ?"
"What uni'/college/pub were they at ?"

Who really gives a fuck, anyways, when all I got from the O/P was that some anonymous "academics" from some unnamed institution supposedly came out with yet another loopy and vacuous thought bubble..

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Post by gelico on Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:32 am

eddie wrote:Oh I wish people would just fuck off with their offended ways. I am sure people look for problems where none exist.





what you just said is EXACTLY what the woman at the library said to me when i asked her if she could photo copy my dbs cert for me. despite working there she had no idea how to reduce a document size,,,,,as you probably know a dbs cert is a long arsed document and i wanted the whole lot condensed onto an A4 sheet. we were both faffing about at the copy machine and she did it wrong twice and we were laughing and yakking away together just for a couple of minutes when ......

all of a sudden mrs jobsworth appeared on the scene and picked up some random card from one of the computers and said ''oh we can't allow this,,,,,we must be seen to be impartial, we are a library and offer a service to the public etc etc,,,,this could so easily offend someone with strong views''

the card???? the only thing i saw was the large print in red that said ''JESUS LIVES''

we both just stood there and said nothing but as soon as she moved off she said (your post)

she then went on to say to me ''this is a christian country, why the hell would anyone even be offended at that''?

i just gave her a look and said ''oh, don't even get me started with the offended competition''

we spent only another minute or two acknowledging to each other the clusterfuck society of the terminally offended that we seem to have to weave our way through

then she said ''but no one's allowed to say so though eh?''

my brain didn't even take in the full import of her words till later on


she was black,

her comment had nothing to do with being black

it was to do with insanity taking over and quite obviously felt that ''we'' as in sane voices were becoming a minority and there was nothing ''we'' could do about it


#offended?fuckoff






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Post by gelico on Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:40 am

Eilzel wrote:A small few academics have mentioned this because they can get some easy attention and stir up a debate, it won't go anywhere because it is silly. They almost certainly know it won't go anywhere too.

No real news here, just more rage over small things that people said.


hi les

hmmmm


A small few academics have mentioned that clapping could cause problems for the sensitive and that we should all do ''jazz hands'' (racist much) to show appreciation

that got laughed at and folk like you said '' it won't go anywhere because it is silly.''

isn't it now policy in at least 1 or 2 universities already? universities of all places, safe spaces? since when?

when i say folk like you, i meant that in no way to be derogatory at all. what i mean is the ''relax, it's all cool, it's all just a bit of silliness'' kind of doesn't work cos that ''silliness'' is taking a firm hold and it's grip seems to be ever tightening ,,,,,, no?

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:35 am

gelico wrote:
Eilzel wrote:A small few academics have mentioned this because they can get some easy attention and stir up a debate, it won't go anywhere because it is silly. They almost certainly know it won't go anywhere too.

No real news here, just more rage over small things that people said.


hi les

hmmmm


A small few academics have mentioned that clapping could cause problems for the sensitive and that we should all do ''jazz hands'' (racist much) to show appreciation

that got laughed at and folk like you said    '' it won't go anywhere because it is silly.''

isn't it now policy in at least 1 or 2 universities already?  universities of all places, safe spaces?  since when?  

when i say folk like you, i meant that in no way to be derogatory at all.  what i mean is the ''relax, it's all cool, it's all just a bit of silliness'' kind of doesn't work cos that ''silliness'' is taking a firm hold and it's grip seems to be ever tightening ,,,,,,  no?

No, the clapping ban is not policy. At Oxford Student Union events it is, but they aren't all or even a lot of uni events overall. It started at Manchester University, but even there it's only encouraged, not policy, at student union events. And even at them, this is more about students playing with campus democracy than a genuine offense at clapping.

All of which is overblown by a media that wants to attack young people and academics and turn generations and classes against one another.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:40 am

Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:


hi les

hmmmm


A small few academics have mentioned that clapping could cause problems for the sensitive and that we should all do ''jazz hands'' (racist much) to show appreciation

that got laughed at and folk like you said    '' it won't go anywhere because it is silly.''

isn't it now policy in at least 1 or 2 universities already?  universities of all places, safe spaces?  since when?  

when i say folk like you, i meant that in no way to be derogatory at all.  what i mean is the ''relax, it's all cool, it's all just a bit of silliness'' kind of doesn't work cos that ''silliness'' is taking a firm hold and it's grip seems to be ever tightening ,,,,,,  no?

No, the clapping ban is not policy. At Oxford Student Union events it is, but they aren't all or even a lot of uni events overall. It started at Manchester University, but even there it's only encouraged, not policy, at student union events. And even at them, this is more about students playing with campus democracy than a genuine offense at clapping.

All of which is overblown by a media that wants to attack young people and academics and turn generations and classes against one another.

Sorry mate that is simple bullshit, beause this kind of insanity is rampant espcially in the US
You may think its just one or two Universities, but when you read things like campuswatch, you will see its certainly more than just one or two Uni's or Colleges

So its not being overblown, its you downplaying a continued and growing problem on education systems. All again formed and created by Far left faculties

If you do not believe me. Then look at the work by Jonathan Haidt. Where he has looked at many of the problematic Uni's where the problem is rampant on the East and west coast US states. Basically the ones in Democrat states

You need to start waking up mate, because its getting tedius the poor mount of excuses you keep makling on this

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:14 am

phildidge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:


hi les

hmmmm


A small few academics have mentioned that clapping could cause problems for the sensitive and that we should all do ''jazz hands'' (racist much) to show appreciation

that got laughed at and folk like you said    '' it won't go anywhere because it is silly.''

isn't it now policy in at least 1 or 2 universities already?  universities of all places, safe spaces?  since when?  

when i say folk like you, i meant that in no way to be derogatory at all.  what i mean is the ''relax, it's all cool, it's all just a bit of silliness'' kind of doesn't work cos that ''silliness'' is taking a firm hold and it's grip seems to be ever tightening ,,,,,,  no?

No, the clapping ban is not policy. At Oxford Student Union events it is, but they aren't all or even a lot of uni events overall. It started at Manchester University, but even there it's only encouraged, not policy, at student union events. And even at them, this is more about students playing with campus democracy than a genuine offense at clapping.

All of which is overblown by a media that wants to attack young people and academics and turn generations and classes against one another.

Sorry mate that is simple bullshit, beause this kind of insanity is rampant espcially in the US
You may think its just one or two Universities, but when you read things like campuswatch, you will see its certainly more than just one or two Uni's or Colleges

So its not being overblown, its you downplaying a continued and growing problem on education systems. All again formed and created by Far left faculties

If you do not believe me. Then look at the work by Jonathan Haidt. Where he has looked at many of the problematic Uni's where the problem is rampant on the East and west coast US states. Basically the ones in Democrat states

You need to start waking up mate, because its getting tedius the poor mount of excuses you keep makling on this

Do you have any links with absolute evidence that a large number of universities have a campus wide policy of banning clapping?

I'll wait.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:47 am

Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Sorry mate that is simple bullshit, beause this kind of insanity is rampant espcially in the US
You may think its just one or two Universities, but when you read things like campuswatch, you will see its certainly more than just one or two Uni's or Colleges

So its not being overblown, its you downplaying a continued and growing problem on education systems. All again formed and created by Far left faculties

If you do not believe me. Then look at the work by Jonathan Haidt. Where he has looked at many of the problematic Uni's where the problem is rampant on the East and west coast US states. Basically the ones in Democrat states

You need to start waking up mate, because its getting tedius the poor mount of excuses you keep makling on this

Do you have any links with absolute evidence that a large number of universities have a campus wide policy of banning clapping?

I'll wait.

I can show you many links to similar stupid actions created by faculty and student Unions

In fact I have posted many said examples on here and still you downplay this

Plrease continue to bury your head in the sand on this mate

Yet you want me to post up more about Jazz hands?

Did you not even see the Socialist Democrats of America as well doing this?


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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:55 am

Oh and this was chatted about on Good Morning Britain the other day as well.

Warning, huge amoounts of snowflakeness ahead for posters

The worst thing is these idiots have no idea how to tackle things like anxiety. They wrongly believe to shield people. Which is not how you help people woth trauma or anxiety for example


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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:02 am

Jonathan Haidt: ‘Many people will soon find themselves mired in perpetual conflict over words’

Jonathan Haidt tells Katie Law why fearful parents have created a generation of students who want to shut down challenging ideas

Jonathan Haidt dislikes the term “snowflake”, preferring to use the more neutral “Gen Z” when describing the current state of colleges and universities all over the English-speaking world.

The softly-spoken American professor, who teaches moral psychology at ​NYU’s Stern School of Business and co-authored The Coddling of the American Mind, is talking about why he believes we are living in an age of “incoherence, anomie and moral chaos”. His theory is that in the past four to five years, thanks to overprotective middle-class parenting and changes in social media, “a small subset” of students born after 1996 are increasingly demanding to be shielded from words and ideas that don’t accord with their own beliefs.

He says the effects are becoming so widespread that, in the long term, they threaten to change the moral fabric of our society. Not only is this “great awokening”, as he half-jokily calls it, making young people hostile to different points of view, it is intimidating others on campus and prevents them from speaking up for fear that they be called out as racist, sexist, homophobic or worse.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/books/jonathan-haidt-the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-a4261081.html

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:26 am

Your first link is again just an isolated incident on one person complaining about this nonsense, it has no wider implications for the vast majority.

The second link is about the Oxford students union, which I already mentioned as one of the two brought up examples of this. Two.


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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:38 am

Eilzel wrote:Your first link is again just an isolated incident on one person complaining about this nonsense, it has no wider implications for the vast majority.

The second link is about the Oxford students union, which I already mentioned as one of the two brought up examples of this. Two.


Holy crap on a cracker, you really have your head firmley buried in the sand mate

Read the work by Jonathan haidt who is left wing by the way. They have looked at many Universities in the US

Its up to you mate, either you can continue to bury your head in the sand with this or actually wake up

You can start by reading "The Coddling of the American mind"


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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:01 am

phildidge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Your first link is again just an isolated incident on one person complaining about this nonsense, it has no wider implications for the vast majority.

The second link is about the Oxford students union, which I already mentioned as one of the two brought up examples of this. Two.


Holy crap on a cracker, you really have your head firmley buried in the sand mate

Read the work by Jonathan haidt who is left wing by the way. They have looked at many Universities in the US

Its up to you mate, either you can continue to bury your head in the sand with this or actually wake up

You can start by reading "The Coddling of the American mind"


What I've actually asked for is really, really simple. The claim is that this tiny minority is having a significant detrimental effect on university life (and it is inferred from this, wider society). The example given (by gelico) was that people moaning about clapping has led to a number of universities making this actual policy (as in, beyond mere student unions, of which I've only found 1.5 anyway). Which from what I can tell, is plainly false.

I will hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong if you or anyone can show clear and unequivocal proof that a dangerous number of universities have made this policy.

Until then, it's all bluster over nothing.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:09 am

phildidge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

No, the clapping ban is not policy. At Oxford Student Union events it is, but they aren't all or even a lot of uni events overall. It started at Manchester University, but even there it's only encouraged, not policy, at student union events. And even at them, this is more about students playing with campus democracy than a genuine offense at clapping.

All of which is overblown by a media that wants to attack young people and academics and turn generations and classes against one another.

Sorry mate that is simple bullshit, beause this kind of insanity is rampant espcially in the US
You may think its just one or two Universities, but when you read things like campuswatch, you will see its certainly more than just one or two Uni's or Colleges

So its not being overblown, its you downplaying a continued and growing problem on education systems. All again formed and created by Far left faculties

If you do not believe me. Then look at the work by Jonathan Haidt. Where he has looked at many of the problematic Uni's where the problem is rampant on the East and west coast US states. Basically the ones in Democrat states

You need to start waking up mate, because its getting tedius the poor mount of excuses you keep makling on this
Rolling Eyes

Utter bullshit,  Dodge...

A bit air headed activism by a few student unions does not equate to any real world campus-wide bans on any of these activities at many universities..

Those right-wing extremists blogs you love so much keep on failing to substantiate any of their wilder claims;  while the few left-leaning/"liberal" voices lambasting the more idiotic among those student activists hardly supports your regular histrionics on here.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:13 am

Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Holy crap on a cracker, you really have your head firmley buried in the sand mate

Read the work by Jonathan haidt who is left wing by the way. They have looked at many Universities in the US

Its up to you mate, either you can continue to bury your head in the sand with this or actually wake up

You can start by reading "The Coddling of the American mind"


What I've actually asked for is really, really simple. The claim is that this tiny minority is having a significant detrimental effect on university life (and it is inferred from this, wider society). The example given (by gelico) was that people moaning about clapping has led to a number of universities making this actual policy (as in, beyond mere student unions, of which I've only found 1.5 anyway). Which from what I can tell, is plainly false.

I will hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong if you or anyone can show clear and unequivocal proof that a dangerous number of universities have made this policy.

Until then, it's all bluster over nothing.

Its all bluster is it? You only take the enforement of Jazz hands as the denominating factor here and not the many cases of what students and faculties are doing in Colleges and Universities

Wow

Do you know what you remined me of?

Myself years ago not believeing there was Asian grooming gangs. I continually buried my head in the sand over this because I did not want to believe it was true and in the end it was true and I felt a right wally. Just as many people did, because they and I simple were not listening. I am not going to make that same mistake again

This is exactly what you are doing now with the growing policies based around the fragility of students

So for you to be pendantic over asking how many Universities have imposed this. Is just about the worst slight of hand, because it ignores the many other problematic polices that are continually being inforced in Universities

The reality is you are being so utterly closeminded, as you simple do not want to believe this

Go figure

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:16 am

gelico wrote:
eddie wrote:Oh I wish people would just fuck off with their offended ways. I am sure people look for problems where none exist.





what you just said is EXACTLY what the woman at the library said to me when i asked her if she could photo copy my dbs cert for me.  despite working there she had no idea how to reduce a document size,,,,,as you probably know a dbs cert is a long arsed document and i wanted the whole lot condensed onto an A4 sheet.  we were both faffing about at the copy machine and she did it wrong twice and we were laughing and yakking away together just for a couple of minutes when ......

all of a sudden mrs jobsworth appeared on the scene and picked up some random card from one of the computers and said ''oh we can't allow this,,,,,we must be seen to be impartial, we are a library and offer a service to the public etc etc,,,,this could so easily offend someone with strong views''  

the card????   the only thing i saw was the large print in red that said  ''JESUS LIVES''

we both just stood there and said nothing but as soon as she moved off she said  (your post)

she then went on to say to me ''this is a christian country, why the hell would anyone even be offended at that''?

i just gave her a look and said ''oh, don't even get me started with the offended competition''

we spent only another minute or two acknowledging to each other the clusterfuck society of the terminally offended that we seem to have to weave our way through

then she said  ''but no one's allowed to say so though eh?''

my brain didn't even take in the full import of her words till later on


she was black,

her comment had nothing to do with being black

it was to do with insanity taking over and quite obviously felt that ''we''  as in sane voices were becoming a minority and there was nothing ''we'' could do about it


#offended?fuckoff






+1

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:30 am

phildidge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Holy crap on a cracker, you really have your head firmley buried in the sand mate

Read the work by Jonathan haidt who is left wing by the way. They have looked at many Universities in the US

Its up to you mate, either you can continue to bury your head in the sand with this or actually wake up

You can start by reading "The Coddling of the American mind"


What I've actually asked for is really, really simple. The claim is that this tiny minority is having a significant detrimental effect on university life (and it is inferred from this, wider society). The example given (by gelico) was that people moaning about clapping has led to a number of universities making this actual policy (as in, beyond mere student unions, of which I've only found 1.5 anyway). Which from what I can tell, is plainly false.

I will hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong if you or anyone can show clear and unequivocal proof that a dangerous number of universities have made this policy.

Until then, it's all bluster over nothing.

Its all bluster is it? You only take the enforement of Jazz hands as the denominating factor here and not the many cases of what students and faculties are doing in Colleges and Universities

Wow

Do you know what you remined me of?

Myself years ago not believeing there was Asian grooming gangs. I continually buried my head in the sand over this because I did not want to believe it was true and in the end it was true and I felt a right wally. Just as many people did, because they and I simple were not listening. I am not going to make that same mistake again

This is exactly what you are doing now with the growing policies based around the fragility of students

So for you to be pendantic over asking how many Universities have imposed this. Is just about the worst slight of hand, because it ignores the many other problematic polices that are continually being inforced in Universities

The reality is you are being so utterly closeminded, as you simple do not want to believe this

Go figure

All right, show me any conclusive evidence of masses of UK universities enforcing policies like this.

Apparently you're conceding the clapping ban isn't a thing in anymore places than have already been mentioned.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:35 am

Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Its all bluster is it? You only take the enforement of Jazz hands as the denominating factor here and not the many cases of what students and faculties are doing in Colleges and Universities

Wow

Do you know what you remined me of?

Myself years ago not believeing there was Asian grooming gangs. I continually buried my head in the sand over this because I did not want to believe it was true and in the end it was true and I felt a right wally. Just as many people did, because they and I simple were not listening. I am not going to make that same mistake again

This is exactly what you are doing now with the growing policies based around the fragility of students

So for you to be pendantic over asking how many Universities have imposed this. Is just about the worst slight of hand, because it ignores the many other problematic polices that are continually being inforced in Universities

The reality is you are being so utterly closeminded, as you simple do not want to believe this

Go figure

All right, show me any conclusive evidence of masses of UK universities enforcing policies like this.

Apparently you're conceding the clapping ban isn't a thing in anymore places than have already been mentioned.

Seriously?

What did I ask you to do, in regards to the research by Jonathan hadit?

Seriously?

How many times have I actually posted many examples of Univerities and Colleges imposing policies?

Shall we discuss Evergreen?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRdayXEOwuMG9DG66Bvx6YbUnhw-buS5K

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:43 am

To make headway on solving the world’s most complex problems, scholars and policy makers must deploy the best ideas. This typically requires consulting a wide range of perspectives.

While a community of inquiry defined by intellectual humility, curiosity, empathy, and trust may hold many beliefs in common, few ideas will be beyond discussion, revision, or good-faith debate.

The surest sign of an unhealthy scholarly culture is the presence of orthodoxy. Orthodoxies are most readily apparent when people fear shame, ostracism, or any other form of social or professional retaliation for questioning or challenging a commonly held idea.

The best way to defend against orthodoxies — or to neutralize them — is to foster commitment to open inquiry, viewpoint diversity and constructive disagreement.

When these elements are missing, orthodoxies can take root and thrive.




https://heterodoxacademy.org/the-problem/

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:44 am

phildidge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Its all bluster is it? You only take the enforement of Jazz hands as the denominating factor here and not the many cases of what students and faculties are doing in Colleges and Universities

Wow

Do you know what you remined me of?

Myself years ago not believeing there was Asian grooming gangs. I continually buried my head in the sand over this because I did not want to believe it was true and in the end it was true and I felt a right wally. Just as many people did, because they and I simple were not listening. I am not going to make that same mistake again

This is exactly what you are doing now with the growing policies based around the fragility of students

So for you to be pendantic over asking how many Universities have imposed this. Is just about the worst slight of hand, because it ignores the many other problematic polices that are continually being inforced in Universities

The reality is you are being so utterly closeminded, as you simple do not want to believe this

Go figure

All right, show me any conclusive evidence of masses of UK universities enforcing policies like this.

Apparently you're conceding the clapping ban isn't a thing in anymore places than have already been mentioned.

Seriously?

What did I ask you to do, in regards to the research by Jonathan hadit?

Seriously?

How many times have I actually posted many examples of Univerities and Colleges imposing policies?

Shall we discuss Evergreen?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRdayXEOwuMG9DG66Bvx6YbUnhw-buS5K

If I watched every video you posted on here, I'd lose hours of my life.

Surely you have a list of universities doing these kinds of things, if they exist.

The odd video is not proof of anything, or if there is a list of sorts within the video just point me exactly to it, cause I'm not watching entire videos from probably more speculation or isolated incidents.

If these kinds of policies exist in a large number of universities, there'll be an article or list somewhere.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:47 am

In an environment that is insufficiently open, facts can be corrupted or suppressed for the benefit of special interests. Important innovations can be set back or outright snuffed out. Avoidable problems can fester and spread. Personal and intellectual growth can be stunted.

Open Inquiry is Threatened on Several Fronts

Across the political spectrum there are people who make it their business to surveille and mob scholars who threaten their preferred narratives.

Expanding bureaucracies at many colleges and universities subject ever more of campus life to administrative oversight — and encourage people to resolve disputes through reporting, investigations and academic reprisals rather than good-faith debate and discussion.

Concerns about placating donors, ensuring high enrollments or positive course evaluations can distort research and pedagogy — especially for the growing numbers of contingent faculty whose careers and livelihoods can be threatened by a single upset student, donor or colleague.

And, of course, many fear losing the esteem of, or being ostracized by, one’s peers for saying the “wrong” thing (a risk which is more pronounced in highly-homogenous environments). Even in the absence of formal sanctions, social and professional isolation can make academic life extremely difficult and unpleasant — and many reasonably prefer to self-censor rather than risk it. This is a significant concern among students, faculty, and administrators.

https://heterodoxacademy.org/the-problem/

Maybe Eizel can explain to me why such an organisation exists. If as he believe its a minor problem?

Sorry mate, this is one area, where you have your head firmly in the sand over. The reason and like I said, you simple do not want to believe it. Like I said, I made this mistake before, even when faced with a mass of evidence. You are doing the same now.


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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:50 am

Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Seriously?

What did I ask you to do, in regards to the research by Jonathan hadit?

Seriously?

How many times have I actually posted many examples of Univerities and Colleges imposing policies?

Shall we discuss Evergreen?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRdayXEOwuMG9DG66Bvx6YbUnhw-buS5K

If I watched every video you posted on here, I'd lose hours of my life.

Surely you have a list of universities doing these kinds of things, if they exist.

The odd video is not proof of anything, or if there is a list of sorts within the video just point me exactly to it, cause I'm not watching entire videos from probably more speculation or isolated incidents.

If these kinds of policies exist in a large number of universities, there'll be an article or list somewhere.

You would lose hours of your life?

Is that your excuse for being closeminded?

So you admit to not watching them?

Proving you are closeminded then to this issue

Like i said, read the work of Jonathan hadit. You wont of course, even though he has studied this

You are just like many of these students. You refuse to see any view point, unless it fits your own

You are living proof of this very problem

You just got banged to rights

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:04 am

Campus trigger warnings are statements cautioning individuals that they are about to be exposed to content in readings, classes, films or speeches they may find upsetting. Intended to shield students from what they might experience as distressing or traumatizing, trigger warnings remain controversial. Students often request or even demand such warnings as a protection from potentially disturbing content, while many faculty and university officials are disdainful, viewing them as examples of excessive political correctness, threats to free speech, or the unnecessary coddling of overly sensitive students.

Although trigger warnings are hotly debated in higher education, serving like a Rorschach card upon which one’s political views of college life are projected, little is actually known about their impact. Is their aim true? Are they helpful or harmful?

We now have some initial empirical evidence about these questions. A research team, led by a postdoctoral fellow at the University of Waikato, (New Zealand) has just published a large-scale study that examines whether trigger warnings act as intended – reducing distress for people later exposed to upsetting information – or misfire – priming anxiety in individuals who are led by the warnings to expect and experience negative affect.

The researchers conducted six experiments involving 1,394 subjects, some of which were college students and others who were online participants. Some subjects were given a message prior to the material they were soon to see. An example: “TRIGGER WARNING: The following video may contain graphic footage of a fatal car crash. You might find this content disturbing.” Other subjects did not receive this or any other warning. All participants were then exposed to the content and subsequently asked to report on the extent to which they experienced distress, negative emotions or intrusive thoughts related to it.

The results? Across all the variations in the studies, trigger warnings had trivial effects. In the words of Mevagh Sanson, senior author of the study, “The results suggest a trigger warning is neither meaningfully helpful nor harmful.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2019/03/22/colleges-dont-be-so-quick-on-the-trigger-warnings-they-may-misfire/#1887fdcc5653

Maybe Eizel can explain why a study was carried out if its only a few as he believes creates such policies in Colleges and Universities?

Come on mate, explain why this study was created?

Is it because trigger warning policies are litteraly now rampant on College and University campuses?

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:07 am


Talk of trigger warnings and microaggressions are sweeping through university campuses, but some researchers question whether they have any psychological basis

WARNINGS before lectures. Speakers banned. Debate stifled. Students are increasingly making demands about what can and can’t be said on campus. This month, online magazine Spiked revealed that 55 per cent of UK universities are censoring speech.

For many, it is a worrying sign that students are turning away from a diversity of thought that would promote critical thinking, the very thing university education is designed to support.

But can students’ concerns be dismissed as mere political correctness?



Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23731660-100-trigger-warnings-are-taking-over-universities-but-do-they-work/#ixzz64lI6fveS


Nothing to see here Folks, as Eizel thinks I am simple making this up
Like i say, nothing worse than people i respect being so utterly closeminded on an issue

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:09 am

In the fight against campus censorship in the UK, spiked’s Free Speech University Rankings has been a game-changer.

Before we launched the FSUR in 2015, as the UK’s first-ever annual analysis of campus censorship, many people in politics and the media were blissfully unaware of what was happening to free speech on campus, and the students fighting against censorship were badly in need of some backup.

Today, the issue is barely out of the headlines, politicians have launched inquiries, made speeches and issued guidance to try to tackle the problem, and students have scored real, lasting victories against campus bans. We at spiked are proud of the role that we, and the FSUR, have played in this.


https://www.spiked-online.com/free-speech-university-rankings/

Its only a few according to Eizel
Now where have I heard that phrase before?

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:17 am

The FSUR 2018 found that 54% of institutions were ranked Red, meaning they
actively censor speech by banning certain views from being expressed on campus
and / or ban specific texts, speakers and groups from campus on the basis of their
content / views.

Out of the remaining institutions, 40% were ranked Amber, meaning they chill
speech through unnecessary regulation, burdensome speaker-vetting procedures or
guidance warning students against engaging in vague categories of expression – for
example, ‘offensive’ or ‘provocative’ speech.

Just 6% were ranked Green, meaning they place no significant restrictions on
speech, as far as we are aware.

https://media.spiked-online.com/website/images/2019/02/21153835/FSUR-PACK-2018.pdf



Apparantly I am being told its just a few.

Happy to provide a shovel to help dig out Eilzel from the hole he has dug for himself here.

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:27 am

Those articles link to rankings and a quick look at what they interpret as 'censorship' shows that some of the things, while I may not agree with banning them, are a far cry from banning clapping.

Banning the Far Right and Islamists is not something I'd do, but it is easy to see why they would.
Banning transphobic propaganda is more understandable, but is censorship.
Banning things that offend religions is silly imo, but again is not so ridiculous.

I'm not apologising for the above btw, I wouldn't ban any of it and think it is ridiculous for students to do so when what they should be doing is challenging it on campus. On that we probably agree.

However, to cast the above in the same light as banning clapping or the word 'Anglo-Saxon' is comparing chalk and cheese.

The above examples can be justified (wrongly imo) to some extent as genuine efforts to maintain some perceived notion of decency and tolerance. Banning clapping or the word Anglo-Saxon would be unjustifiable and stupid. The things in the links are true, though I don't think they should be. But the clapping and Anglo-Saxon term have and will lead to absolutely nothing.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:38 am

Eilzel wrote:Those articles link to rankings and a quick look at what they interpret as 'censorship' shows that some of the things, while I may not agree with banning them, are a far cry from banning clapping.

Banning the Far Right and Islamists is not something I'd do, but it is easy to see why they would.
Banning transphobic propaganda is more understandable, but is censorship.
Banning things that offend religions is silly imo, but again is not so ridiculous.

I'm not apologising for the above btw, I wouldn't ban any of it and think it is ridiculous for students to do so when what they should be doing is challenging it on campus. On that we probably agree.

However, to cast the above in the same light as banning clapping or the word 'Anglo-Saxon' is comparing chalk and cheese.

The above examples can be justified (wrongly imo) to some extent as genuine efforts to maintain some perceived notion of decency and tolerance. Banning clapping or the word Anglo-Saxon would be unjustifiable and stupid. The things in the links are true, though I don't think they should be. But the clapping and Anglo-Saxon term have and will lead to absolutely nothing.


Seriously? You are still harping on and centralising over the clapping? When it is just one of a number of censuring policies that have been introduced?

You reek of desperation here mate. Why can you not admit there is a major problems in Colleges and Universities?

We also see you also hold the same bias yourself to understand others to ban certain speech you do not like
That makes you anti-secualar and illiberal?

I detest holocaust denial, but I would never ban people for this. I would rightfully challenge their poor unfounded claims. By discrediting their views with factual evidence. 

Now wonder that you are litterally blind to all this. You actyually agree with most of this crap. You may disagree with banning but agree with why and how some do this. Where you base this on decency to being justified. That has to go down as the most contradictory claptrap I have ever heard. 

Its the same reasoning found in countless Universities and collegese which often stem from faculty. That seek to control how we speak and what we can speak about. This is evident with even your view around what you find as decent

Holy crap on a cracker.

The left are the new religious idiots, the enemies of science, rationality and reason. That if they do not like something. Its now indecent to the likes of your disciples. You certainly have not given up religion buddy. You hold to a new form of this. Which seeks to decide what is decent to talk about

Mate let me know when you wake up? bewcause frankily the excuses you have given here in the face of overwhelming evidence is appalling.

You showed zero humility here to the reality you clearly do not want to believe the facts here

Ergo, utterly closeminded

Insteqad of excuses, you simple should have stated, its wrong for any Universitiy to do this. You tried instead to make allowances

Do you know what mate, people like you are the fucking problem

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:50 am

Yes, yes, yes, enough with feigned over-emotiveness ffs.

By claiming to 'understand why' someone does something, do not, I repeat, does NOT, mean I am biased or agree with it. It means I understand why.

Did you ever watch Joker? One of the things that can be taken from that film is that while COMPLETELY disagreeing with what the protagonist becomes, we as an audience CAN see how he got there.

That is very much how I feel about BS censorship of things that might offend people. I don't agree with it at all, even though I see WHY people would feel that way. It's called empathy. May be a foreign concept to you since apparently you cannot comprehend why many would deem it necessary to ban certain words.

I focus on the clapping and Anglo-Saxon term because those are the things beyond rational. The reasons given for banning them stretch all commonsense - and hey, would you look at that, neither thing is banned or even close to the realm of being banned.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:03 am

Eilzel wrote:Yes, yes, yes, enough with feigned over-emotiveness ffs.

By claiming to 'understand why' someone does something, do not, I repeat, does NOT, mean I am biased or agree with it. It means I understand why.

Did you ever watch Joker? One of the things that can be taken from that film is that while COMPLETELY disagreeing with what the protagonist becomes, we as an audience CAN see how he got there.

That is very much how I feel about BS censorship of things that might offend people. I don't agree with it at all, even though I see WHY people would feel that way. It's called empathy. May be a foreign concept to you since apparently you cannot comprehend why many would deem it necessary to ban certain words.

I focus on the clapping and Anglo-Saxon term because those are the things beyond rational. The reasons given for banning them stretch all commonsense - and hey, would you look at that, neither thing is banned or even close to the realm of being banned.  


And further proof of what I have been stated in you being close minded
Your first point of attack is on me over emotiomns.
Not the facts surrounded your actual excuses here

You are biased, when you make a point of decency. Have you learnt nothing how such a word was used to demean homosexuals for centuries. This is why you are fucking clueless. Thw whole concept around decency has been used to persecute people for simple being in love as conscenting adults and you even argued off this as a view to understand their reasons?

One word to say to that

wow

I agree its important to understand everything and how people become. Whoich is why I am trying to explain to you the problems with Universities and Colleges today, which you have at every step tried to downplay and even deny. So why have you done so?

You do realise you have done this throughout with trying to look clever by asking me to post more links to banning clapping? You knew the view was around poor policies being created by Universities and Colleges and you sought to look a smart alec and say. "Well its only been one and half Universities, so what is the problem?" 

Ignoring the blatnat fact that this is just one of a number of policies created based around the fragility of students. Meaning you failed to see the bigger picture of the issue. 

You then claim you do not agree will all of it? Really? You either agree to have a multicultural society, one which has njow seen the rise of Muslim/Christian families protest the right to teach your very existance and inclusion. I disagree with these protestors, but they have every right to do so. I am in your courner on this, but I would never ban them.

So if you focus on the clapping and banning the word "Anglo Saxon". Why is it it is already starting to happen, where One University has done so and academics are looking to  the same with language? So yes in Oxford it has been banned to clap. This is how a pandemic always starts and spreads. Unless you speask up against this. Instead of as you are doing making pathetic excuses. Then you allign yourself with irrational beliefs.

Its time you starting speaking out against not only poor religious beliefs, but even beliefs that stem from your political ideology

phildidge

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:36 am

Lets give examples of appalling laws based around views formed around negative decency policies Eilzel

Stonning women to death for adultery

Hanging homosexuals for homosexuality

Beheading people through execution for people guilty of blasphemy

Beheading people for insulting a religion

Beheading people for apostacy

Honour killings

Forced marriages

Forced Hijab wearing

Denying females the right to walk in public alone

Punishing couples for simple being seen together

These laws are all based aound a notion of decency to certain cultures or religions

Want to rethink your stupidity stance around decency?

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:13 am

phildidge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Yes, yes, yes, enough with feigned over-emotiveness ffs.

By claiming to 'understand why' someone does something, do not, I repeat, does NOT, mean I am biased or agree with it. It means I understand why.

Did you ever watch Joker? One of the things that can be taken from that film is that while COMPLETELY disagreeing with what the protagonist becomes, we as an audience CAN see how he got there.

That is very much how I feel about BS censorship of things that might offend people. I don't agree with it at all, even though I see WHY people would feel that way. It's called empathy. May be a foreign concept to you since apparently you cannot comprehend why many would deem it necessary to ban certain words.

I focus on the clapping and Anglo-Saxon term because those are the things beyond rational. The reasons given for banning them stretch all commonsense - and hey, would you look at that, neither thing is banned or even close to the realm of being banned.  


And further proof of what I have been stated in you being close minded
Your first point of attack is on me over emotiomns.
Not the facts surrounded your actual excuses here

You are biased, when you make a point of decency. Have you learnt nothing how such a word was used to demean homosexuals for centuries. This is why you are fucking clueless. Thw whole concept around decency has been used to persecute people for simple being in love as conscenting adults and you even argued off this as a view to understand their reasons?

One word to say to that

wow

I agree its important to understand everything and how people become. Whoich is why I am trying to explain to you the problems with Universities and Colleges today, which you have at every step tried to downplay and even deny. So why have you done so?

You do realise you have done this throughout with trying to look clever by asking me to post more links to banning clapping? You knew the view was around poor policies being created by Universities and Colleges and you sought to look a smart alec and say. "Well its only been one and half Universities, so what is the problem?" 

Ignoring the blatnat fact that this is just one of a number of policies created based around the fragility of students. Meaning you failed to see the bigger picture of the issue. 

You then claim you do not agree will all of it? Really? You either agree to have a multicultural society, one which has njow seen the rise of Muslim/Christian families protest the right to teach your very existance and inclusion. I disagree with these protestors, but they have every right to do so. I am in your courner on this, but I would never ban them.

So if you focus on the clapping and banning the word "Anglo Saxon". Why is it it is already starting to happen, where One University has done so and academics are looking to  the same with language? So yes in Oxford it has been banned to clap. This is how a pandemic always starts and spreads. Unless you speask up against this. Instead of as you are doing making pathetic excuses. Then you allign yourself with irrational beliefs.

Its time you starting speaking out against not only poor religious beliefs, but even beliefs that stem from your political ideology

Going round in circles isn't getting us anywhere, especially when you clearly still think Oxford has banned clapping completely, which as stated is NOT the case. It is only banned in the minority of events which are Student Union events, it is NOT university policy.

Since you can't even grasp that clear point, the rest is wasted time.

_________________
"The reactionary is always willing to take a progressive attitude on any issue that is dead" Teddy Roosevelt

"The beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms" Socrates
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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:22 am

Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:


And further proof of what I have been stated in you being close minded
Your first point of attack is on me over emotiomns.
Not the facts surrounded your actual excuses here

You are biased, when you make a point of decency. Have you learnt nothing how such a word was used to demean homosexuals for centuries. This is why you are fucking clueless. Thw whole concept around decency has been used to persecute people for simple being in love as conscenting adults and you even argued off this as a view to understand their reasons?

One word to say to that

wow

I agree its important to understand everything and how people become. Whoich is why I am trying to explain to you the problems with Universities and Colleges today, which you have at every step tried to downplay and even deny. So why have you done so?

You do realise you have done this throughout with trying to look clever by asking me to post more links to banning clapping? You knew the view was around poor policies being created by Universities and Colleges and you sought to look a smart alec and say. "Well its only been one and half Universities, so what is the problem?" 

Ignoring the blatnat fact that this is just one of a number of policies created based around the fragility of students. Meaning you failed to see the bigger picture of the issue. 

You then claim you do not agree will all of it? Really? You either agree to have a multicultural society, one which has njow seen the rise of Muslim/Christian families protest the right to teach your very existance and inclusion. I disagree with these protestors, but they have every right to do so. I am in your courner on this, but I would never ban them.

So if you focus on the clapping and banning the word "Anglo Saxon". Why is it it is already starting to happen, where One University has done so and academics are looking to  the same with language? So yes in Oxford it has been banned to clap. This is how a pandemic always starts and spreads. Unless you speask up against this. Instead of as you are doing making pathetic excuses. Then you allign yourself with irrational beliefs.

Its time you starting speaking out against not only poor religious beliefs, but even beliefs that stem from your political ideology

Going round in circles isn't getting us anywhere, especially when you clearly still think Oxford has banned clapping completely, which as stated is NOT the case. It is only banned in the minority of events which are Student Union events, it is NOT university policy.

Since you can't even grasp that clear point, the rest is wasted time.


Wow so now your argument is over semantics. Its still banning clapping in certain events, which does nothing to help people with mental haealth or sensory issues.

The rest left you flapping like a fisjh out of water and i am disappointed with you badly. With how you debated here

We both know this and i expected better reasoning from you

Oh well, the reality is you continue to allow your bias to deny you the ability to see a problem. Which is the real issue here

Where you constantly turn a blind eye to political extremism controlling our places of laeraning which should be places to discuss difficult and contencious topics

You have certainly lost any view or form of what it means to be secular and Liberal mate

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:27 am

phildidge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:


And further proof of what I have been stated in you being close minded
Your first point of attack is on me over emotiomns.
Not the facts surrounded your actual excuses here

You are biased, when you make a point of decency. Have you learnt nothing how such a word was used to demean homosexuals for centuries. This is why you are fucking clueless. Thw whole concept around decency has been used to persecute people for simple being in love as conscenting adults and you even argued off this as a view to understand their reasons?

One word to say to that

wow

I agree its important to understand everything and how people become. Whoich is why I am trying to explain to you the problems with Universities and Colleges today, which you have at every step tried to downplay and even deny. So why have you done so?

You do realise you have done this throughout with trying to look clever by asking me to post more links to banning clapping? You knew the view was around poor policies being created by Universities and Colleges and you sought to look a smart alec and say. "Well its only been one and half Universities, so what is the problem?" 

Ignoring the blatnat fact that this is just one of a number of policies created based around the fragility of students. Meaning you failed to see the bigger picture of the issue. 

You then claim you do not agree will all of it? Really? You either agree to have a multicultural society, one which has njow seen the rise of Muslim/Christian families protest the right to teach your very existance and inclusion. I disagree with these protestors, but they have every right to do so. I am in your courner on this, but I would never ban them.

So if you focus on the clapping and banning the word "Anglo Saxon". Why is it it is already starting to happen, where One University has done so and academics are looking to  the same with language? So yes in Oxford it has been banned to clap. This is how a pandemic always starts and spreads. Unless you speask up against this. Instead of as you are doing making pathetic excuses. Then you allign yourself with irrational beliefs.

Its time you starting speaking out against not only poor religious beliefs, but even beliefs that stem from your political ideology

Going round in circles isn't getting us anywhere, especially when you clearly still think Oxford has banned clapping completely, which as stated is NOT the case. It is only banned in the minority of events which are Student Union events, it is NOT university policy.

Since you can't even grasp that clear point, the rest is wasted time.


Wow so now your argument is over semantics. Its still banning clapping in certain events, which does nothing to help people with mental haealth or sensory issues.

The rest left you flapping like a fisjh out of water and i am disappointed with you badly. With how you debated here

We both know this and i expected better reasoning from you

Oh well, the reality is you continue to allow your bias to deny you the ability to see a problem. Which is the real issue here

Where you constantly turn a blind eye to political extremism controlling our places of laeraning which should be places to discuss difficult and contencious topics

You have certainly lost any view or form of what it means to be secular and Liberal mate

Wow.

_________________
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"The beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms" Socrates
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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:34 am

Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:


Wow so now your argument is over semantics. Its still banning clapping in certain events, which does nothing to help people with mental haealth or sensory issues.

The rest left you flapping like a fisjh out of water and i am disappointed with you badly. With how you debated here

We both know this and i expected better reasoning from you

Oh well, the reality is you continue to allow your bias to deny you the ability to see a problem. Which is the real issue here

Where you constantly turn a blind eye to political extremism controlling our places of laeraning which should be places to discuss difficult and contencious topics

You have certainly lost any view or form of what it means to be secular and Liberal mate

Wow.


You may claim wow, but the moment you placed decency as a form of understanding. The very thing that has persecuted homosexuals for centuries. That is not understanding, but being in tune with idiocy. I can see someones arguemnts but never forma view around understanding them when they deny the very equality and well being of an indivvidual. I will defend their rights to express them, but will clearly never understand an argument to criminalise people based off decency that has no effect on the well being of others.
I am happy to admit I am wrong here, if you can prove to me, you for once excepted what i said was true and not instead looked to downplay everything I said

Over to you

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:50 am

Anglo-Saxons rebranded as migrant success story by historian Tom Holland

The Anglo-Saxons are often thought of as brutish invaders who put native Brits to the sword and shunned Roman-style civilisation in favour of mead binges and brawls in drafty wooden huts.

However, according to a popular historian, the forebears of the English should be viewed more kindly — as immigrants who forged new identities in a diverse postcolonial society.

Tom Holland’s comments came after an Oxford University academic warned that non-white students might think “what is in this for me?” if required to study topics such as Saxons or Tudors.

Mr Holland, whose books include Athelstan: The Making of England, a biography of the first king of the English, tweeted: “It should not be beyond the wit of competent teachers to render the Anglo-Saxons — immigrants…

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/anglo-saxons-rebranded-as-migrant-success-story-by-historian-tom-holland-l3p7s9z2n

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Post by gelico on Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:06 pm

Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:


And further proof of what I have been stated in you being close minded
Your first point of attack is on me over emotiomns.
Not the facts surrounded your actual excuses here

You are biased, when you make a point of decency. Have you learnt nothing how such a word was used to demean homosexuals for centuries. This is why you are fucking clueless. Thw whole concept around decency has been used to persecute people for simple being in love as conscenting adults and you even argued off this as a view to understand their reasons?

One word to say to that

wow

I agree its important to understand everything and how people become. Whoich is why I am trying to explain to you the problems with Universities and Colleges today, which you have at every step tried to downplay and even deny. So why have you done so?

You do realise you have done this throughout with trying to look clever by asking me to post more links to banning clapping? You knew the view was around poor policies being created by Universities and Colleges and you sought to look a smart alec and say. "Well its only been one and half Universities, so what is the problem?" 

Ignoring the blatnat fact that this is just one of a number of policies created based around the fragility of students. Meaning you failed to see the bigger picture of the issue. 

You then claim you do not agree will all of it? Really? You either agree to have a multicultural society, one which has njow seen the rise of Muslim/Christian families protest the right to teach your very existance and inclusion. I disagree with these protestors, but they have every right to do so. I am in your courner on this, but I would never ban them.

So if you focus on the clapping and banning the word "Anglo Saxon". Why is it it is already starting to happen, where One University has done so and academics are looking to  the same with language? So yes in Oxford it has been banned to clap. This is how a pandemic always starts and spreads. Unless you speask up against this. Instead of as you are doing making pathetic excuses. Then you allign yourself with irrational beliefs.

Its time you starting speaking out against not only poor religious beliefs, but even beliefs that stem from your political ideology

Going round in circles isn't getting us anywhere, especially when you clearly still think Oxford has banned clapping completely, which as stated is NOT the case. It is only banned in the minority of events which are Student Union events, it is NOT university policy.

Since you can't even grasp that clear point, the rest is wasted time.



les, what if it were something like a minority of students 'felt uncomfortable' around gay people so the student union decided to ban gay people from attending certain events.

even if it were only A FEW events dotted here and there and it really WASN'T university policy,,,,,

would you be so complacent about it?



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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:01 pm

gelico wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:


And further proof of what I have been stated in you being close minded
Your first point of attack is on me over emotiomns.
Not the facts surrounded your actual excuses here

You are biased, when you make a point of decency. Have you learnt nothing how such a word was used to demean homosexuals for centuries. This is why you are fucking clueless. Thw whole concept around decency has been used to persecute people for simple being in love as conscenting adults and you even argued off this as a view to understand their reasons?

One word to say to that

wow

I agree its important to understand everything and how people become. Whoich is why I am trying to explain to you the problems with Universities and Colleges today, which you have at every step tried to downplay and even deny. So why have you done so?

You do realise you have done this throughout with trying to look clever by asking me to post more links to banning clapping? You knew the view was around poor policies being created by Universities and Colleges and you sought to look a smart alec and say. "Well its only been one and half Universities, so what is the problem?" 

Ignoring the blatnat fact that this is just one of a number of policies created based around the fragility of students. Meaning you failed to see the bigger picture of the issue. 

You then claim you do not agree will all of it? Really? You either agree to have a multicultural society, one which has njow seen the rise of Muslim/Christian families protest the right to teach your very existance and inclusion. I disagree with these protestors, but they have every right to do so. I am in your courner on this, but I would never ban them.

So if you focus on the clapping and banning the word "Anglo Saxon". Why is it it is already starting to happen, where One University has done so and academics are looking to  the same with language? So yes in Oxford it has been banned to clap. This is how a pandemic always starts and spreads. Unless you speask up against this. Instead of as you are doing making pathetic excuses. Then you allign yourself with irrational beliefs.

Its time you starting speaking out against not only poor religious beliefs, but even beliefs that stem from your political ideology

Going round in circles isn't getting us anywhere, especially when you clearly still think Oxford has banned clapping completely, which as stated is NOT the case. It is only banned in the minority of events which are Student Union events, it is NOT university policy.

Since you can't even grasp that clear point, the rest is wasted time.



les, what if it were something like a minority of students 'felt uncomfortable' around gay people so the student union decided to ban gay people from attending certain events.

even if it were only A FEW events dotted here and there and it really WASN'T university policy,,,,,

would you be so complacent about it?



Since no one is a victim of a clapping ban there is no comparison.

_________________
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"The beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms" Socrates
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Post by gelico on Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:15 pm

Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:



les, what if it were something like a minority of students 'felt uncomfortable' around gay people so the student union decided to ban gay people from attending certain events.

even if it were only A FEW events dotted here and there and it really WASN'T university policy,,,,,

would you be so complacent about it?



Since no one is a victim of a clapping ban there is no comparison.


but les, i disagree. they are ALL being turned into victims by giving them these ridiculous so called ''safe spaces'' and ''trigger warnings'' etc. they're not going to get any of that shit in the big wide world so it's actually really damaging and limiting and harmful to them in the long run to be allowing this.

furthermore, most of the students would have been used to clapping from being babies, so being suddenly denied a form of expression that they have always used throughout their whole lives can possibly really stress them out.

but you see, it's not a gay issue is it? it doesn't affect you or your life in any way so,,,,,meh


Rolling Eyes



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Post by Eilzel on Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:23 pm

gelico wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:



les, what if it were something like a minority of students 'felt uncomfortable' around gay people so the student union decided to ban gay people from attending certain events.

even if it were only A FEW events dotted here and there and it really WASN'T university policy,,,,,

would you be so complacent about it?



Since no one is a victim of a clapping ban there is no comparison.


but les, i disagree.  they are ALL being turned into victims by giving them these ridiculous so called ''safe spaces'' and ''trigger warnings'' etc.  they're not going to get any of that shit in the big wide world so it's actually really damaging and limiting and harmful to them in the long run to be allowing this.

furthermore, most of the students would have been used to clapping from being babies, so being suddenly denied a form of expression that they have always used throughout their whole lives can possibly really stress them out.

but you see, it's not a gay issue is it?  it doesn't affect you or your life in any way so,,,,,meh


Rolling Eyes



Such a stupid claim. I care about issues with ACTUAL victims - racism, sexism, ageism, whatever it is. Pretty low and unusual for you to play the 'you only care if it concerns gay people' card, more so since YOU brought that up, not me Rolling Eyes

As for the clapping, I agree that it IS ridiculous. So it's a good thing it is only happening in student union events at ONE university.

There are bigger problems in the world than this, get real.

_________________
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