Offshore wind farms could provide more electricity than the world even needs

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:55 am

The Guardian wrote:Erecting wind turbines on the world’s best offshore sites could provide more than enough clean energy to meet global electricity demand, according to a report.

A detailed study of the world’s coastlines has found that offshore windfarms alone could provide more electricity than the world needs – even if they are only built in windy regions in shallow waters near the shore.

Analysis by the International Energy Agency (IEA) revealed that if windfarms were built across all useable sites which are no further than 60km (37 miles) off the coast, and where coastal waters are no deeper than 60 metres, they could generate 36,000 terrawatt hours of renewable electricity a year. This clean energy boom would easily meeting the current global demand for electricity of 23,000 terrawatt hours.


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Post by nicko on Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:03 am

What happens when there's no wind ? Is there a way to store the Electricity ?
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Post by 'Wolfie on Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:37 am

nicko wrote:What happens when there's no wind ?    Is there a way to store the Electricity ?
.
Smile

Several means of storing energy are already available...  Some of those possible examples could include :

Pumped hydro'  (pump water up to dams with excess energies, then run back down through turbines during periods of high demand..)
Heat ('salt') ponds
Big batteries  --  especially once hydrogen cells are perfected to a commercially-viable level
Producing other fuel types, such as biodiesel, lpg, liquid hydrogen, using surplus power..


The people producing that report appear to be a bunch of ignorant nongs, though;  apparently seeking to ignore some salient points,  to wit :

*  electricity loses 'power' once you begin to conduct it over long distances --  over a few hundred kilometres, it will "lose" half - through such things as friction, heat, other radiation, leaks, and just the energy required to keep it moving (i.e. 'pumping' it into the energy 'grids'..);  so their "possible 36,000 terrawatt hours" effectively only produces than less than 18,000 tw/hrs" at the end users on the power grids;

*  whole also ignoring future growth in power requirements on one side, and future efficiencies on the other --  their "23,000 terrawatt hours" is only looking at current global energy demands;

*  they also appear to be ignoring other associated costs  :  e.g. pollution, environmental, local communities..  


Future global energy needs may well be covered by a combination of tidal, wind, geothermal and solar  --  but somehow I don't see one source alone solving all of the world's energy needs.

Also, the 1st Law of Thermodynamics always needs to be kept in mind --  within a closed system, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but only changed from one form to another..

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Post by nicko on Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:10 pm

I believe only two powers are really an option , Nuclear or Wave Power,and Wave power may not be possible in some cases. I have to favour Nuclear over all others !
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Post by Maddog on Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:21 pm

The IEA said earlier this week that global supplies of renewable electricity were growing faster than expected and could expand by 50% in the next five years, driven by a resurgence in solar energy. Offshore wind power would drive the world’s growth in clean power due to plummeting costs and new technological breakthroughs, including turbines close to the height of the Eiffel Tower and floating installations that can harness wind speeds further from the coast.

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Post by nicko on Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:02 pm

Wind Farms by all means, but out of sight of land,
[Even though they are "bird choppers" !]
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Post by eddie on Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:08 pm

This is pretty good news!

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Post by Maddog on Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:53 pm

eddie wrote:This is pretty good news!

It's always been just a matter of time until the market provides a solution. Wind is free and as soon as people have the technology to harness it and distribute it in an affordable manner, it will replace a dirty, finite resource.

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Post by eddie on Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:52 pm

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:This is pretty good news!

It's always been just a matter of time until the market provides a solution. Wind is free and as soon as people have the technology to harness it and distribute it in an affordable manner, it will replace a dirty, finite resource.  

I hope it happens soon.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:40 pm

nicko wrote:Wind Farms by all means, but out of sight of land,
 [Even though they are "bird choppers" !]

The "they kill birds" thing has got to stop. People who were really that worried about #BirdLivesMatter would try to ban skyscrapers, cars and cats, which kill far more birds than wind farms do.

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Post by Jules on Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:05 am

Joyous news.
99% of wars & conflicts [past & present] are ultimately related to the need for fuel.  I challenge anyone to tell me any different!

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:22 am

nicko wrote:I believe only two powers are really an option , Nuclear or Wave Power,and Wave power may not be possible in some cases. I have to favour Nuclear over all others !
.
sunny

More than half the world receives enough sunshine to provide enough "day to day" needs...

Solar and wind power are both widely variable, meaning that they need to be used in conjunction with both storeage systems and a backup (e.g. generators running off natural gas, 'biofuels', hydro schemes..).

Tidal generators need to be in places with decent swells, and they also suffer from the same problems with long distance power drains, when trying to distribute that electricity over more than a couple of hundred kilometres..


Two problems with current nuclear power generation :
*  dealing with wastes --  there are still millions of tonnes accumulating aroind the world, with the corporatists' blind hopes that some day some future generations will find a cost-effective way of dealing with it;
*  it is expensive..

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Post by Vintage on Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:22 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
nicko wrote:Wind Farms by all means, but out of sight of land,
 [Even though they are "bird choppers" !]

The "they kill birds" thing has got to stop. People who were really that worried about #BirdLivesMatter would try to ban skyscrapers, cars and cats, which kill far more birds than wind farms do.

I would although not cats, there must be another alternative..

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Post by Vintage on Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:23 am

Jules wrote:Joyous news.
99% of wars & conflicts [past & present] are ultimately related to the need for fuel.  I challenge anyone to tell me any different!




Clean Water or water of any kind for some?

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:28 am

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:This is pretty good news!

It's always been just a matter of time until the market provides a solution. Wind is free and as soon as people have the technology to harness it and distribute it in an affordable manner, it will replace a dirty, finite resource.  
Basketball

And in the meantime, the world's population (and energy needs..) keep on growing...

For reasons I've already pointed out,  even using that research/lobby group's own figure of annual possible wind generation of 36,000 tw/hrs of electricity at the sources of production,  in the long run it will still only supply around 25 -> 30% of the world's future energy needs..

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:36 am

Vintage wrote:
Jules wrote:Joyous news.
99% of wars & conflicts [past & present] are ultimately related to the need for fuel.  I challenge anyone to tell me any different!

Clean Water or water of any kind for some?
Basketball

Around 40% of wars have been fought over religious, cultural and political differences...

After discounting that biggish minority, the remainder have often been in the cause of chasing more economic resources than that 'aggressor' country, state or tribe had at home,  including :

Land
Gold, silver, diamonds
Energy resources -- Coal, Oil, Natural Gas
Minerals and ores
Fresh water

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Post by Vintage on Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:39 am

The bottom line is population after all. At one time the human population and other species were at a sustainable level that managed to survive very well with the resources available, then the human race over populated and the rest is history, or will be for everything else on the planet sooner than later and maybe in the near future the human race itself.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:59 am

'Wolfie wrote:
Vintage wrote:
Jules wrote:Joyous news.
99% of wars & conflicts [past & present] are ultimately related to the need for fuel.  I challenge anyone to tell me any different!

Clean Water or water of any kind for some?
Basketball

Around 40% of wars have been fought over religious, cultural and political differences...

After discounting that biggish minority, the remainder have often been in the cause of chasing more economic resources than that 'aggressor' country, state or tribe had at home,  including :

Land
Gold, silver, diamonds
Energy resources -- Coal, Oil, Natural Gas
Minerals and ores
Fresh water

I tend to think that religious and other differences have been used to whitewash the real intent behind almost every war ever fought.

Some leader looks to the people living, for lack of a better phrase, "over there" and decides he wants their stuff.

So he says, "Those people don't worship our god/look like us/act like us, we should kill them (and take their stuff)!"

Fish in a barrel.

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Post by nicko on Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:05 am

Jules,your wrong ,most wars are caused by Religion, ! or "we fancy the land your living on" !
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Post by Jules on Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:43 pm

Vintage wrote:
Jules wrote:Joyous news.
99% of wars & conflicts [past & present] are ultimately related to the need for fuel.  I challenge anyone to tell me any different!

Clean Water or water of any kind for some?

The operative word in my post was "ultimately". I inserted that word for a reason.
When people mention ''clean water, land grabs, gold mining'' etc, they've moved on to secondary reasons, or they're talking about the actual EFFECTS of war, not the cause.
Ultimately it all boils down to the pressing need for energy/fuel and the desperate search to find it.

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Post by Jules on Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:50 pm

'Wolfie wrote:
Vintage wrote:

Clean Water or water of any kind for some?
Basketball

Around 40% of wars have been fought over religious, cultural and political differences...

After discounting that biggish minority, the remainder have often been in the cause of chasing more economic resources than that 'aggressor' country, state or tribe had at home,  including :

Land
Gold, silver, diamonds
Energy resources -- Coal, Oil, Natural Gas
Minerals and ores
Fresh water

Those are sought primarily for enrichment, to enhance international purchasing power.
They are merely trading commodities, a form of currency.

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Post by nicko on Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:53 pm

Wolfie is correct with his 40% !
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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:35 pm

I personally think that religion has not really caused many wars -- not nearly 40 percent.

I think that religion has been used to justify a great many wars -- but I think the real reason most leaders have started wars is to acquire resources.

Remember, most wars in human history were fought with sticks and stones, by tribes that are long forgotten.

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Post by Jules on Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:10 pm

Indeed. Historically many acts were committed under the banner of religion.
The true motives & agendas are another matter.

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