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Post by eddie on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:23 pm

”This is the first time that we have detected water on a planet in the habitable zone around a star where the temperature is potentially compatible with the presence of life,"

Water found for first time on potentially habitable planet A572d110

Astronomers have for the first time discovered water in the atmosphere of a planet orbiting within the habitable zone of a distant star.
The finding makes the world - which is called K2-18b - a plausible candidate in the search for alien life.
Within 10 years, new space telescopes might be able to determine whether K2-18b's atmosphere contains gases that could be produced by living organisms.
Details were published in the scientific journal Nature Astronomy.
The lead scientist, Prof Giovanna Tinetti of University College London (UCL) described the discovery as "mind blowing".
"This is the first time that we have detected water on a planet in the habitable zone around a star where the temperature is potentially compatible with the presence of life," she said.
The habitable zone is the region around a star where temperatures are sufficiently benign for water to exist in liquid form on the surface of a planet.
K2-18b is 111 light-years - about 650 million million miles - from Earth, too far to send a probe. So the only option is to wait for the next generation of space telescopes to be launched in the 2020s and to look for gasses in the planet's atmosphere that could only be produced by living organisms, according to UCL's Dr Ingo Waldmann.

"This is one of the biggest questions in science and we have always wondered if we are alone in the Universe," Dr Waldmann said. "Within the next 10 years, we will know whether there are chemicals that are due to life in those atmospheres."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49648746

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:32 pm

That's amazing. I find it mind-boggling that we've developed the techniques to look that far across space to see a planet, and then deduce from the reflection of light what gasses are in that planet's atmosphere.

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Post by eddie on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:35 pm

I knew that would get you all hot under the collar Wink

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:44 pm

eddie wrote:I knew that would get you all hot under the collar Wink

Cool

Water found for first time on potentially habitable planet A3f94dc0f0121ba202493b4332c39713

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:56 pm



Waffle...


They can claim anything they like... when it is impossible to ever prove...



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Post by eddie on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:01 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Waffle...


They can claim anything they like... when it is impossible to ever prove...



That is true, I can’t make that statement as it stands, untrue, but what do they get from lying?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Waffle...


They can claim anything they like... when it is impossible to ever prove...



Scientific equipment like long-range space telescopes are generally made available to many different teams of researchers, so anybody who's lying about a discovery will easily be caught out by the next team.

As far as the composition of this planet's atmosphere, anybody with a bit of know-how can design an experiment showing which colors are absorbed and which are reflected by any given gas. That's how scientists measure the composition of the atmospheres of every planet besides Earth, Mars and Venus, which are the only ones we've been able to study directly.

You seem to think that scientists are more or less constantly lying -- am I wrong? And if I'm not, then why do you think that?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:16 pm

More funding of taxpayers cash...!



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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:19 pm

Speculation about unprovable stuff is not fact...



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Post by eddie on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:26 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Speculation about unprovable stuff is not fact...



What do they get from lying?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:27 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Speculation about unprovable stuff is not fact...



What does a telescope do? What does a spectrometer do?

If you use both pieces of equipment, you can refract light from a distant source and analyze it. You could do it here on Earth.

The atmosphere of Venus, which was eventually studied by a probe, was accurately predicted by analyzing its light with a spectrometer.

If you were trained how to use this equipment, you could prove it yourself.

Why do you assume that they're lying, then?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:31 pm

And anyway, if they were merely speculating, as you say, then why would they even bother using all this equipment?

Why wouldn't they just say, Ah, we think there's this planet 650 million million miles away that has an atmosphere like Earth's.

Be a hell of a lot easier than having to secure the funding they'd need to properly study it.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:32 pm

More taxpayer funds, Eddie...



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Post by eddie on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:36 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:More taxpayer funds, Eddie...



Okay...but the money is funding the research so who benefits from it? If you had said “They’re taking one million from taxpayers but only spending £500k and pocketing the rest” - that would make sense.

So what is the point of them lying, Tommy?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:41 pm

They are pocketing all the money...

And paving the way for more money to be ploughed in to paying for even more 'equipment' and 'research'...



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Post by eddie on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:47 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:They are pocketing all the money...

And paving the way for more money to be ploughed in to paying for even more 'equipment' and 'research'...



Okay. So you think all this kind of research is simply a way of rich people stealing taxpayers money?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:47 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:They are pocketing all the money...

And paving the way for more money to be ploughed in to paying for even more 'equipment' and 'research'...



How do you know?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:52 pm



Because they are all getting paid for their 'work'...


And the article talks about the creation of a new load of space telescopes... funded by whom...!?



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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:32 am

Water found for first time on potentially habitable planet 1399249160

Tommy would prefer that all "taxpayer funds" should forthwith be withheld from all scientific and medical research, (even though Tommy himself won't be paying his fair share of taxes, anyways)...

And instead should be directed instead into the coffers of his beloved new-fascists neo-nazi isolationist 'Brexit Party';   party, party, party..

All heil Herr Farage --  Tommy's new Messiah --  let's all "Make Britain Great Again !"

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Post by Eilzel on Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:48 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Waffle...


They can claim anything they like... when it is impossible to ever prove...



Science starts with possibility and exploration, tommy. They can't prove it outright, not yet; but the fact they think they have identified such a planet gives hope that we can reach it some day - and think of all the benefits and wonders that could bring (just used a fraction of your tiny imagination ffs).

If left to people like you we just wouldn't seek, wouldn't find. Stifle all scientific curiosity.

Jeez we really would still be living in caves if history was only filled with people like you Rolling Eyes

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:12 am


It would take 200 million years to get there...

So totally pointless!!!

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Post by nicko on Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:28 am

Again +1
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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:34 pm

There is nothing pointless about searching the galaxy for signs that there's life out there somewhere besides Earth.

The day we find proof that there's life elsewhere, it will change the way we see ourselves forever. It will make the discovery of the Americas look like finding a fiver in your jacket pocket.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:13 pm



So... how are they gonna prove that there is some sort of life on this planet then...!?


Truth is... they're not...!


So just a load of guff really...!


lol!

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Post by gelico on Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

So... how are they gonna prove that there is some sort of life on this planet then...!?




maybe not this particular planet, Tommy, although if they've found signs of water then it's possible

but surely to imagine that we are the only life forms on one planet amongst billions of planets is surely guff

stands to reason we're not the only ones

don't you find it exciting?


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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:08 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
So... how are they gonna prove that there is some sort of life on this planet then...!?

Truth is... they're not...!

So just a load of guff really...!

lol!
Idea

Just piss off,  you fucking know-nothing jackass...

All you're doing now is embarrassing yourself more and more, with each subsequent post..

You wouldn't recognise the "truth" if it bit you on your stupid fat arse.

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Post by gelico on Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:24 pm

'Wolfie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
So... how are they gonna prove that there is some sort of life on this planet then...!?

Truth is... they're not...!

So just a load of guff really...!

lol!
Idea

Just piss off,  you fucking know-nothing jackass...

All you're doing now is embarrassing yourself more and more, with each subsequent post..


You wouldn't recognise the "truth" if it bit you on your stupid fat arse.




Shocked

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Post by nicko on Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:18 pm

Wolfie, keyboard Warrior par-excellence !
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Post by eddie on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:39 pm

'Wolfie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
So... how are they gonna prove that there is some sort of life on this planet then...!?

Truth is... they're not...!

So just a load of guff really...!

lol!
Idea

Just piss off,  you fucking know-nothing jackass...

All you're doing now is embarrassing yourself more and more, with each subsequent post..

You wouldn't recognise the "truth" if it bit you on your stupid fat arse.

Why are you being abusive to someone who has a different view to your own? Is it because you think you’re right?

Good job you’re not a teacher of children.

I actually don’t think you’ll even know what this post means.

Bzzzzzzz.

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Post by eddie on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:48 pm

gelico wrote:
'Wolfie wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
So... how are they gonna prove that there is some sort of life on this planet then...!?

Truth is... they're not...!

So just a load of guff really...!

lol!
Idea

Just piss off,  you fucking know-nothing jackass...

All you're doing now is embarrassing yourself more and more, with each subsequent post..


You wouldn't recognise the "truth" if it bit you on your stupid fat arse.




Shocked

Yeah, no “How did you come to this conclusion?”
Just a shit ton of abuse and nothingness.

I don’t think I agree with Tommy, but at least I ask Fucking questions.

Abuse is nothing more then a big fat shit ton of verbal runny shit. It stinks and no one wants to associate with it.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:48 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

So... how are they gonna prove that there is some sort of life on this planet then...!?


Truth is... they're not...!


So just a load of guff really...!


lol!

The OP says that instruments are expected to become sensitive enough to detect the sort of chemicals that are created by living things in a planet's atmosphere within the next decade.

They already know that this planet has water and is in the Goldilocks zone of its sun.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:22 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

So... how are they gonna prove that there is some sort of life on this planet then...!?


Truth is... they're not...!


So just a load of guff really...!


lol!

The OP says that instruments are expected to become sensitive enough to detect the sort of chemicals that are created by living things in a planet's atmosphere within the next decade.

They already know that this planet has water and is in the Goldilocks zone of its sun.


So... considering the first claim that the current instruments have discovered water on this distant planet..?


How accurate are these current instruments...!?


Name me one planet that has had a claim of water being there, and has been conclusively proven to be accurate...!?




Also... these proposed new instruments... how are they going to be tested for guaranteeing their accuracy...!?


lol!


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Post by Eilzel on Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:49 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

So... how are they gonna prove that there is some sort of life on this planet then...!?


Truth is... they're not...!


So just a load of guff really...!


lol!

The OP says that instruments are expected to become sensitive enough to detect the sort of chemicals that are created by living things in a planet's atmosphere within the next decade.

They already know that this planet has water and is in the Goldilocks zone of its sun.


So... these new instruments...


Proven to be accurate...!?


lol!



So what do you we shoild do tommy? Just shut down all scientific investigation into outer space?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:53 am



"...Earth is the only planet known to have stable bodies of liquid water on its surface, and liquid water is essential to all known life forms on Earth..."


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_liquid_water

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:56 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

"...Earth is the only planet known to have stable bodies of liquid water on its surface, and liquid water is essential to all known life forms on Earth..."


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_liquid_water

And?

'known' planet.

Are you using wikipedia to argue we should stop exploring new possibilities?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:56 am

So... considering the first claim that the current instruments have discovered water on this distant planet..?


How accurate are these current instruments...!?


Name me one planet that has had a claim of water being there, and has been conclusively proven to be accurate...!?




Also... these proposed new instruments... how are they going to be tested for guaranteeing their accuracy...!?


lol!

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Post by gelico on Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:10 am

Tommy Monk wrote:So... considering the first claim that the current instruments have discovered water on this distant planet..?


How accurate are these current instruments...!?


Name me one planet that has had a claim of water being there, and has been conclusively proven to be accurate...!?



space exploration is a relatively new thing though tommy

just because one hasn't been found yet does that mean we shouldn't look?

i ask you this again

with all the billions of planets that are actually out there, do you think that we are the only life forces there are?






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Post by Eilzel on Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:16 am

Tommy Monk wrote:So... considering the first claim that the current instruments have discovered water on this distant planet..?


How accurate are these current instruments...!?


Name me one planet that has had a claim of water being there, and has been conclusively proven to be accurate...!?




Also... these proposed new instruments... how are they going to be tested for guaranteeing their accuracy...!?


lol!

That's not answering the question.

Considering your recent exchanges with Andy, that reeks of hypocrisy.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:33 am

Tommy Monk wrote:So... considering the first claim that the current instruments have discovered water on this distant planet..?


How accurate are these current instruments...!?


Name me one planet that has had a claim of water being there, and has been conclusively proven to be accurate...!?




Also... these proposed new instruments... how are they going to be tested for guaranteeing their accuracy...!?


lol!

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:51 am

Hypocrite.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:19 am



It would take 200 million years to get there... and another 200 million to get back to report the findings...


So who gives a fuck...!!!???

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

It would take 200 million years to get there... and another 200 million to get back to report the findings...


So who gives a fuck...!!!???

Spectrometers are highly accurate instruments in most cases. You can use one to take a chemical analysis of a sample of liquid and determine what chemicals are in it.

All chemicals react with light in a distinctive way, and spectrometers are used to analyze the light reflected and absorbed by chemicals to determine what they are.

As long as the telescope is doing its job and the spectrometer is doing its job, the reading should be mostly accurate.

Again -- discovering life on another planet would obviously be the biggest discovery in the history of humanity, by a long way. It's worth doing.

And you haven't answered my questions about how scientists could forge a result like this one when other scientists can and will be checking their findings.

When grants are made for scientific research, they almost always go to the research departments of universities. The universities are then held accountable for how the money is spent.

They're allowed to spend on the production end of experimentation -- providing the raw materials and infrastructure needed to conduct experiments -- and to spend on the salaries of the researchers themselves, who are not normally paid massive salaries.

For example, researchers at Caltech average around $90,000 a year.

They certainly don't just take grant money and stuff it into their own pockets. Do you think there's anybody in the world who'd let them simply do that?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:46 pm

So... considering the first claim that the current instruments have discovered water on this distant planet..?


How accurate are these current instruments...!?


Name me one planet that has had a claim of water being there, and has been conclusively proven to be accurate...!?




Also... these proposed new instruments... how are they going to be tested for guaranteeing their accuracy...!?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:So... considering the first claim that the current instruments have discovered water on this distant planet..?


How accurate are these current instruments...!?


Name me one planet that has had a claim of water being there, and has been conclusively proven to be accurate...!?




Also... these proposed new instruments... how are they going to be tested for guaranteeing their accuracy...!?

I really think you should look into these questions for yourself. One, I don't think you'll believe me, and two, I think it'd do you good to research something you don't understand very well with an open mind -- with all due respect.

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Post by phildidge on Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:31 pm

Hmmm. What is the reality of this situation?

If there is life there. It clearly sees life here as of no cocnern. Or is not at a stage to understand how we could be a threat to them.

because the reality is and through history. We have always looked to expand and colonise areas for our own benefit

So if we could reach this world. Do you not think that again humanity would not look to care about what illnesses we would pass onto them?

The reality is this and evolution proves this. Given half the chance. We would colonise and control this planet if the species there. Were lessw evolved than humans. Its part of human nature in a number of people. Its why we should never use people that have seen combat/war. As many suffer post traumatic stress. As they leave themselves open to conflictions.

Why are we so happy we have seen planet that can sustain life?

because it provides a potential hope for the future for humans to colonise ans survive.

Happy for people to disagree with me on this and prove me wrong

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:14 pm

I just think this search is something we as a species HAVE to do. We owe it to ourselves to do whatever we can to find out if there are other living things on other planets.

As far as we can tell, we're the most intelligent things this planet has managed to evolve. If any Earthling is going to find life elsewhere, it will be us, or else some other intelligent species that replaces us eons from now will have to give it a shot.

And evolution on Earth has only selected for high, human-style intelligence *once* in 4.5 billion years.

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Post by phildidge on Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:26 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:I just think this search is something we as a species HAVE to do. We owe it to ourselves to do whatever we can to find out if there are other living things on other planets.

As far as we can tell, we're the most intelligent things this planet has managed to evolve. If any Earthling is going to find life elsewhere, it will be us, or else some other intelligent species that replaces us eons from now will have to give it a shot.

And evolution on Earth has only selected for high, human-style intelligence *once* in 4.5 billion years.

ben I have faith that humanity will evolve

Sadly with climate change I only see conflict in the near future. I also see if we could reach this planet. We would be ignornat as we were in the past. When the Europeans landed in the Americas and cause millions to die from diseases they brought with them.


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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:53 pm

I know the answers to my questions...


I am asking you if you know...?



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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:58 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I know the answers to my questions...


I am asking you if you know...?



I would love to hear your thoughts, then. Don't know why you're asking questions if you already have all the answers, though.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:54 am

Ben Reilly wrote:I just think this search is something we as a species HAVE to do. We owe it to ourselves to do whatever we can to find out if there are other living things on other planets.

As far as we can tell, we're the most intelligent things this planet has managed to evolve. If any Earthling is going to find life elsewhere, it will be us, or else some other intelligent species that replaces us eons from now will have to give it a shot.

And evolution on Earth has only selected for high, human-style intelligence *once* in 4.5 billion years.

Idea

Anybody who has read 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' knows that both white mice and dolphins are much more highly evolved critters than mere ol' humans ...

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