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Post by nicko on Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:32 pm

The girl missing from her hotel in Malaya has been found dead in Jungle. Report said she was naked when found. Why the fuck did they have to say that,it's bad enough she's dead without that , her poor Parents .
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Post by magica on Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:19 pm

It was odds on sadly. I never thought she would be alive, the jungle is treacherous. Thoughts to her parents.
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Post by Syl on Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:20 pm

Tragic. I wonder how and why, God willing she didn't suffer at the hands of anyone before she died.

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Post by Syl on Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:04 pm

This is such a heartbreaking case.
Her parents say she never went anywhere without them, yet she apparently climbed through the window at night and wandered off.


Nora Quoirin died from prolonged hunger and stress, police say

"Nora Quoirin died from internal bleeding thought to be caused by prolonged hunger and stress, Malaysian police have said.
Authorities on Thursday said there was currently no evidence of kidnapping in the London teenager's disappearance, and said the post-mortem did not find any sign she had been sexually abused.
Investigators said she had been dead for up to three days when the body was found.
The remains of the 15-year-old, who was born with the brain defect holoprosencephaly and was described by her family as "vulnerable", were found on Tuesday near a jungle stream 10 days after she went missing from a rainforest resort in Seremban."


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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/nora-quoirin-died-from-prolonged-hunger-and-stress-police-say/ar-AAFPyDf?MSCC=1565866525&ocid=spartanntp

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Post by magica on Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:46 pm

She wanted to see the waterfall. Maybe she woke early and took herself off. Tbh why leave a vulnerable girl downstairs, in fact I wouldn't have left any of them downstairs. I would've had that room. It's not the safest of places. Glad she wasn't raped or murdered. Such a shame, bless her.
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Post by Syl on Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:02 pm

magica wrote:She wanted to see the waterfall.  Maybe she woke early and took herself off.  Tbh why leave a vulnerable girl downstairs, in fact I wouldn't have left any of them downstairs.  I would've had that room.  It's not the safest of places.  Glad she wasn't raped or murdered.  Such a shame, bless her.

I'm not sure what the sleeping arrangements were Mags, but like you I would have wanted to be near her at night in a strange place.
I cant imagine the pain they are going through, it was supposed to be the holiday of a lifetime. Crying or Very sad

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:31 am



I don't believe a word of this autopsy... and I don't believe that she climbed out her window on her own either...



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Post by Syl on Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:50 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

I don't believe a word of this autopsy... and I don't believe that she climbed out her window on her own either...


There are thngs that dont add up.
Where she was found after the search party had already covered that area, her underwear was missing and hasn't yet been found, her mum said she never went out alone......it does sound suspicious.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:06 am



The whole thing stinks!


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Post by nicko on Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:17 am

Bring her home and have a PM by British experts, their "findings" are bullshit, their covering up !
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Post by magica on Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:40 pm

The more that is said, the more I feel there is more to this. She wasn't near the water fall, then money goes up and hey presto, she's found. No clothes, unless she took them off. Ill be glad when our people do the Autopsy, them I will believe, not those out there.
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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:39 pm



The family don't believe it either... they are pushing for a criminal investigation to be started...

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Post by Syl on Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:09 pm

Her parents must feel totally shattered.
It would be bad enough if the girl did wander off on her own accord, get lost and die from malnutrition, but to have the added fear that someone took her and deliberately harmed her must be unbearable.

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Post by eddie on Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:40 pm

I don’t understand how she wound up naked?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:55 pm

Apparently Scotland Yard assisted Malaysian police in their search. I would be surprised if no criminal investigation was opened into this; however, if no evidence of her being with another person or being harmed by another person emerges, there isn't much to be done.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:57 pm

Interesting post Ben, about there being assistance from Scotland Yard police...


Would be interested to know the extent of their involvement... and if they had 'boots on the ground' over there... and if so, the timeline and extent of their involvement relative to the original report of her disappearance...?


As I would think that they would not have had anyone out there for quite a while after initial report of disappearance... and therefore likely that any evidence that may have been there during the critical first few hours/couple of days etc, would not have been available to them by the time of any of them arriving at the location, for a variety of possible reasons...!?



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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Interesting post Ben, about there being assistance from Scotland Yard police...


Would be interested to know the extent of their involvement... and if they had 'boots on the ground' over there... and if so, the timeline and extent of their involvement relative to the original report of her disappearance...?


As I would think that they would not have had anyone out there for quite a while after initial report of disappearance... and therefore likely that any evidence that may have been there during the critical first few hours/couple of days etc, would not have been available to them by the time of any of them arriving at the location, for a variety of possible reasons...!?



I didn't see whether Scotland Yard actually showed up in person, or how many personnel they sent. Bit like in Texas, when you hear that the Texas Rangers (state-level version of the FBI) showed up to a shooting incident, then you go there (as a reporter) and find out they sent out one guy to poke around for a few hours.

If this incident was treated as a missing-person from the beginning, there's a good chance that any evidence of a crime has been inadvertently cleared away or tainted. They don't preserve the crime scene if they don't think a crime has occurred.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:49 pm

So... why post anything about there being Scotland Yard assistance...?

And in a way that suggests that everything must have therefore been conclusively investigated etc as somehow having had the thumbs up from uk specialists...?


When it is really meaningless waffle...!?


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Post by eddie on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:00 am

Tommy Monk wrote:So... why post anything about there being Scotland Yard assistance...?

And in a way that suggests that everything must have therefore been conclusively investigated etc as somehow having had the thumbs up from uk specialists...?


When it is really meaningless waffle...!?


Why do you call something “waffle” when people are just exploring ideas?
What do you think then?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:02 am

Tommy Monk wrote:So... why post anything about there being Scotland Yard assistance...?

And in a way that suggests that everything must have therefore been conclusively investigated etc as somehow having had the thumbs up from uk specialists...?


When it is really meaningless waffle...!?


I said they assisted, I think you read the rest of that into what I said.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:02 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Interesting post Ben, about there being assistance from Scotland Yard police...


Would be interested to know the extent of their involvement... and if they had 'boots on the ground' over there... and if so, the timeline and extent of their involvement relative to the original report of her disappearance...?


As I would think that they would not have had anyone out there for quite a while after initial report of disappearance... and therefore likely that any evidence that may have been there during the critical first few hours/couple of days etc, would not have been available to them by the time of any of them arriving at the location, for a variety of possible reasons...!?



I didn't see whether Scotland Yard actually showed up in person, or how many personnel they sent. Bit like in Texas, when you hear that the Texas Rangers (state-level version of the FBI) showed up to a shooting incident, then you go there (as a reporter) and find out they sent out one guy to poke around for a few hours.

If this incident was treated as a missing-person from the beginning, there's a good chance that any evidence of a crime has been inadvertently cleared away or tainted. They don't preserve the crime scene if they don't think a crime has occurred.


Don't know what you are waffling about here...


The location of her disappearance would have been treated as a potential crime scene from the start...


And should have remained as a potential crime scene until at least the point where the post mortem results were established...


So... scene should have been preserved up until couple days ago...


And what is it exactly that you claim scotland yard police involvement was...?


And when, etc...?


Any link to back up your claim...!?

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Post by Cass on Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:44 am

Poor girl. I believe she probably wandered off herself and the parents are looking for someone to blame because they feel terrible guilt. I would be the same probably. At least I hope this is what happened as thinking of her being abducted is awful. Either way it’s so tragic.

RIP Nora x

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Post by eddie on Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:25 am

Cass wrote:Poor girl. I believe she probably wandered off herself and the parents are looking for someone to blame because they feel terrible guilt. I would be the same probably.  At least I hope this is what happened as thinking of her being abducted is awful. Either way it’s so tragic.

RIP Nora x

Probably killed herself because she had such an awful name.
Who calls their kid Nora?

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Post by Syl on Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:42 pm

eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:Poor girl. I believe she probably wandered off herself and the parents are looking for someone to blame because they feel terrible guilt. I would be the same probably.  At least I hope this is what happened as thinking of her being abducted is awful. Either way it’s so tragic.

RIP Nora x

Probably killed herself because she had such an awful name.
Who calls their kid Nora?

Eddie, that's not nice, and unlike you tbh.

I read today that the window in the girls room was broken and couldn't be locked. So it is possible someone could have opened the window from the outside.

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Post by Cass on Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:39 pm

eddie wrote:
Cass wrote:Poor girl. I believe she probably wandered off herself and the parents are looking for someone to blame because they feel terrible guilt. I would be the same probably.  At least I hope this is what happened as thinking of her being abducted is awful. Either way it’s so tragic.

RIP Nora x

Probably killed herself because she had such an awful name.
Who calls their kid Nora?

Seriously?

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Post by eddie on Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:39 pm

So....if she hadn’t died, could I have said

“Probably went missing because Nora is such a shite name”?

Is it the fact I don’t like her name or the fact she died and I didn’t like her name?

And Syl yes, it is VERY like me! I make jokes all the time. I’d have said that anywhere, anytime.

Not bothered.  I don’t find jokes offensive because they’re jokes! I’m not laughing at the girl dying I’m laughing at the name.
Unclench fgs.

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Post by Syl on Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:53 pm

eddie wrote:So....if she hadn’t died, could I have said

“Probably went missing because Nora is such a shite name”?

Is it the fact I don’t like her name or the fact she died and I didn’t like her name?

And Syl yes, it is VERY like me! I make jokes all the time. I’d have said that anywhere, anytime.

Not bothered.  I don’t find jokes offensive because they’re jokes! I’m not laughing at the girl dying I’m laughing at the name.
Unclench fgs.

You can explain it any way you like, it was a nasty thing to say.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:12 pm

Eddie, you might find that kind of thing funny, but you have to accept that others don't.

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Post by Cass on Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:35 pm

eddie wrote:So....if she hadn’t died, could I have said

“Probably went missing because Nora is such a shite name”?

Is it the fact I don’t like her name or the fact she died and I didn’t like her name?

And Syl yes, it is VERY like me! I make jokes all the time. I’d have said that anywhere, anytime.

Not bothered.  I don’t find jokes offensive because they’re jokes! I’m not laughing at the girl dying I’m laughing at the name.
Unclench fgs.

I’m not clenched up at all. I just found what you said is, in my opinion, in very bad taste. But to each their own.


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Post by Original Quill on Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:37 pm

I see her as a sweet, vulnerable child with a disability. My heart is broken for her.

I want to say, Why god...why her?

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Post by magica on Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:15 pm

[quote="eddie"]
Cass wrote:Poor girl. I believe she probably wandered off herself and the parents are looking for someone to blame because they feel terrible guilt. I would be the same probably.  At least I hope this is what happened as thinking of her being abducted is awful. Either way it’s so tragic.

RIP Nora x

Probably killed herself because she had such an awful name.
Who calls their kid Nora? [/quot


Oh Ed what a nasty thing to say. Evil or Very Mad
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Post by eddie on Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:56 pm

The joke was about her NAME. If she hadn’t died and turned up alive and well and I’d said:

“She probably tried to commit suicide because she had an awful name”

would anyone have minded then?


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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:58 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Eddie, you might find that kind of thing funny, but you have to accept that others don't.

She wasn't joking about her death. She wasn't joking about the horror that happened to the girl. Edds is a caring mother, and it really frustrates me that anybody would act like she joked about the girl's death. I promise, she would never do that.

She joked about the girl's name, that's all. If she'd tried to make out that it was funny that she died, that would be one thing. Sure, it was edgy and dark, but please look back and ask yourself if you really think that joke was about the girl's death before getting so self-righteous.

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Post by Syl on Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:01 am

eddie wrote:The joke was about her NAME. If she hadn’t died and turned up alive and well and I’d said:

“She probably tried to commit suicide because she had an awful name”

would anyone have minded then?


The girl is dead though, and you 'joke' that she probably killed herself because of her name.
Canyou imagine, if they happened to see this, how a remark like that would hurt her grieving parents?
It's cruel....and if you and Ben cant see that, just try to put yourselves in Nora's mum and dads shoes and try to imagine how you would feel..

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Post by eddie on Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:20 am

I’m not making fun of her death, I’m making fun of her name.

Some people don’t understand that jokes have a context.
The context isn’t her death, it’s her name.

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Post by eddie on Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:29 am

”A joke about a bad thing isn’t as bad as the bad thing, or necessarily condoning the bad thing. It could be anti the bad thing. It depends on the actual joke.”

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Post by eddie on Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:33 am

Ricky Gervais puts it best:

Because she did that thing that people do. She didn’t say, “What, you find jokes about rape funny?” She said, “What, you find rape funny?” The answer to that is, no, of course not. No one finds rape funny. Not even rapists find rape funny, know what I mean? Noone ever gives evidence saying, “It was dark, he wore a ski mask, and he was giggling.” That’s never… So… I sent back, “You mean jokes about rape?” She said, “Yes.” -I went, “Depends on the joke.” “-It fucking doesn’t!” I’m going, “No, it does! It does! It depends on the joke. It’s about context, it’s about content. What do you mean by a rape joke?” She said, “Even a joke with the word ‘rape’ in it is unacceptable.” I said, “That’s ridiculous, it depends what the joke is.” I tweeted that clip of me in The Office, going, “I think there’s been a rape up there!” Everyone gets that because of the context. And the target is a middle-aged man, who’s so narcissistic, he’ll say anything to win a silly game. You have to understand the joke and where it comes from. I said, “Some jokes don’t punch up or down. They don’t punch anywhere. They can just be a pun, a play on words, that don’t really mean anything.” A joke went round when I was a kid, even adults told it. I’ll tell you. A woman goes running into a police station. She says, “Help, I’ve been graped!” The policeman says, “Do you mean raped?” She says, “No, there was a bunch of them.” That is a rape joke, right? So…. And I even said to her, “No, I agree, in most cases, yeah. Real rape jokes, they are fucking horrible when the victim is the target. Disgusting! I’d never tell those. But it depends on the joke, not the word or the subject.” I calmed it down, and they agreed some jokes are worse than others. She ended it by saying, “Well, okay, I see your point, but… still… I will laugh at a joke with the word ‘rape’ in it, when no-one in the audience has been raped.” I should have left it. I just sent back, “What a weird door policy.” You turn up to a comedy gig, pay your money, someone says, “Can I just ask you a question?” Yeah. Have you ever been raped? I have, yes. You can’t come in. What? Why? A lady says she won’t laugh if you’re in. Off you go.”


And if you don’t get where I’m coming from with jokes, then that’s all I can offer. You either get it, or you don’t.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:22 am

Eds, you're being set upon by the Mean Girls.  They see things in very two-dimensional terms: ummm, this good; that bad.

Subtleties are lost.  This is a daily experience for Wolf. Which is why he comes on strong at the start.  I only hope you remember that.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:42 am

eddie wrote:
I don’t understand how she wound up naked?

Basketball

If she was found without any clothes or personal possessions, after she died -- even if it turns out she wasn't attacked physically or sexually, maybe she was still robbed after her death...

Countries like Malaysia and Indonesia do have great disparities in income, with larger proportions of poorer people -- and as a result, more of that certain type of opportunistic thieves who don't give a damn about human decency and "moral" behaviours..

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:01 am



She was robbed for her underwear...!!!???

WTF are you talking about, fleakeeper...!!!???

Have you not read anything about this girls disappearance???


It is said that all she had with her when she disappeared was the underwear that she was wearing... and was found without any of this underwear...!



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Post by Cass on Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:36 am

Original Quill wrote:Eds, you're being set upon by the Mean Girls.  They see things in very two-dimensional terms: ummm, this good; that bad.

Subtleties are lost.  This is a daily experience for Wolf.  Which is why he comes on strong at the start.  I only hope you remember that.

I’m most certainly not a mean girl. Nobody was being mean to Eddie. I, along with others, pointed out that we didn’t think this was a joking matter. She put her view across, Syl countered, end of discussion. I don’t play school yard games. At all.

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Post by eddie on Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:40 am

If she hadn’t died and turned up alive and well, my “joke” would have been seen differently.

We all know it.

It’s okay to laugh at a joke.
And the joke was about her name. Not her death.

Knee jerk reactions are killing free speech.

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Post by eddie on Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:46 am

Original Quill wrote:Eds, you're being set upon by the Mean Girls.  They see things in very two-dimensional terms: ummm, this good; that bad.

Subtleties are lost.  This is a daily experience for Wolf.  Which is why he comes on strong at the start.  I only hope you remember that.

I don’t agree about your wolf comment, but I’ll think on it.
I’m nothing, if not open minded.

I think this.... people think they should act a certain way in a certain circumstance. That’s why the “mean girls” as you call them, cannot see where raw humour and truth, can come from.

And I repeat, if she hadn’t died would the joke about her name have had the same reaction?
Of course not.

It’s a very difficult concept to grasp, I get that. So let them have their opinion.
And I’ll always have my opinion, and I know it’s not for everyone. I’m okay with that.

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Post by Cass on Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:35 am

eddie wrote:If she hadn’t died and turned up alive and well, my “joke” would have been seen differently.

We all know it.

It’s okay to laugh at a joke.
And the joke was about her name. Not her death.

Knee jerk reactions are killing free speech.

Not by me. I don’t like making fun of people especially more so when it’s a child.

I can laugh at jokes. All the time. But I personally did not think what you said was funny.

Nor do I ever act. What I write is what and who I am as you very well know. Sure behaving, not acting, in a certain way in certain circumstances is appropriate and good manners. So please don’t try to patronize me by saying I don’t see where things come from. We have different personalities, life experiences etc...

I knew you were not joking about her death. And so did the others.

I don’t see anyone here trying to take away your free speech. For someone who is all about Free Speech and being truthful and blunt, you sure don’t half dislike it if someone responds in the same way to you.

Seems like I am repeating myself so I’ll wish you a good night and go eat my sushi before the princess wakes up. We let dad and mum escape out for the night. Have a good Sunday x

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Post by eddie on Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:57 am

I understand all of what you said, even your little dig at my “free speech” attitude..even though I never said you couldn’t have your own “free speech” remark that opposed me.
So not sure that I made any comment about free speech.

But your first comment was: “Seriously?”

So if the joke had been made about an adult that had died, you wouldn’t have said “Seriously?”

I get it. The “Nora is a shit name” joke would be okay if Nora was above..what age by the way??


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Post by Eilzel on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:41 am

A few weeks ago, following the shooting in El Paso, Neil DeGrasse Tyson made an ill-timed tweet about other things that killed more each month than guns. It was a fair point, horrendously badly timed (there are other issues around that point but they are not relevant to my point).

Regardless of whether he was 'right' or 'correct' to make that tweet, it was grossly insensitive to make it right after the event, with millions still shocked and saddened, and those immediately affected still grieving.

In this case, the girl has JUST been found dead. It isn't hard to see why making a joke related to the matter is going to be seen in bad taste.

I wouldn't analyse 'why' people are offended, it is pretty obvious. You are entitled to make the joke, but appreciate why most will not like it at all and are free to say so.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:05 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Eddie, you might find that kind of thing funny, but you have to accept that others don't.

She wasn't joking about her death. She wasn't joking about the horror that happened to the girl. Edds is a caring mother, and it really frustrates me that anybody would act like she joked about the girl's death. I promise, she would never do that.

She joked about the girl's name, that's all. If she'd tried to make out that it was funny that she died, that would be one thing. Sure, it was edgy and dark, but please look back and ask yourself if you really think that joke was about the girl's death before getting so self-righteous.

Self righteous? You can see that a few people really didn't like that "joke". Instead of telling me to look back, maybe you and eddie should look back and see how bad that "joke" was. The "joke" was against her parents for naming her, and they're shocked and grieving. It's fine to be a bit quirky and "edgy", as you call it, but sometimes you both need to think before you speak. Blurting things out is for kids, not adults.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:12 am

eddie wrote:The joke was about her NAME. If she hadn’t died and turned up alive and well and I’d said:

“She probably tried to commit suicide because she had an awful name”

would anyone have minded then?


Yes!

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:16 am

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Eds, you're being set upon by the Mean Girls.  They see things in very two-dimensional terms: ummm, this good; that bad.

Subtleties are lost.  This is a daily experience for Wolf.  Which is why he comes on strong at the start.  I only hope you remember that.

I don’t agree about your wolf comment, but I’ll think on it.
I’m nothing, if not open minded.

I think this.... people think they should act a certain way in a certain circumstance. That’s why the “mean girls” as you call them, cannot see where raw humour and truth, can come from.

And I repeat, if she hadn’t died would the joke about her name have had the same reaction?
Of course not.  

It’s a very difficult concept to grasp, I get that. So let them have their opinion.
And I’ll always have my opinion, and I know it’s not for everyone.  I’m okay with that.  

Raw humour? Truth? You call that truth?

What is particular awful is that you are insisting that others are to blame for not getting your "joke" instead of understanding that it was awful. They do get it, they just don't like it. There's humour and then there's bad taste. That was in bad taste.

Difficult concept to grasp? Please stop pretending that you're some kind of guru who is more intelligent than anyone else.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:49 am

Original Quill wrote:Eds, you're being set upon by the Mean Girls.  They see things in very two-dimensional terms: ummm, this good; that bad.

Subtleties are lost.  This is a daily experience for Wolf.  Which is why he comes on strong at the start.  I only hope you remember that.

What? Are you suggesting that Wolf wants to be subtle but he thinks nobody will get it so he hurls abuse around instead? Laughing

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