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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:18 pm



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHTPMzO00mQ

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:34 pm

What a brilliant man...most intelligent president ever.  Couple this with his great articulation and speaking abilities, his abilities to solve problems (like the Republican depression), and you have a golden age.

To understand, you have to listen.  "Don't send through coyotes..." is wise advice.  Still a licensed Arizona attorney, I have personal knowledge of what he is talking about.  There are illicit trades going across the border.  The coyotes make one trip with drugs, and the next with families.  Not good.

What Obama said, essentially, is watch who you befriend.  That's wise advice anywhere.

The great difference between Obama and Trump is, Obama didn't criminalize the process.  To criminalize is to warrant punishment, and that is what Trump is aiming at.  He doesn't care about infants, or elders...he only wants to hurt people.  Trump really doesn't care about the law...he's out to get people of color.  He is an abject racist.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:32 pm

Original Quill wrote:What a brilliant man...most intelligent president ever.  Couple this with his great articulation and speaking abilities, his abilities to solve problems (like the Republican depression), and you have a golden age.

To understand, you have to listen.  "Don't send through coyotes..." is wise advice.  Still a licensed Arizona attorney, I have personal knowledge of what he is talking about.  There are illicit trades going across the border.  The coyotes make one trip with drugs, and the next with families.  Not good.

What Obama said, essentially, is watch who you befriend.  That's wise advice anywhere.

The great difference between Obama and Trump is, Obama didn't criminalize the process.  To criminalize is to warrant punishment, and that is what Trump is aiming at.  He doesn't care about infants, or elders...he only wants to hurt people.  Trump really doesn't care about the law...he's out to get people of color.  He is an abject racist.

It's more than just coyotes.

It's a dangerous journey based on the elements and mother nature.

Look at the father and daughter who drowned a few weeks ago.

S. Texas is littered with dead bodies from recent crossings and crossings from before Trump.

Obama was right. He is also far more eloquent at saying basically the same thing Trump has said.

And let's not forget that Obama put folks in cages and holds the presidential record for deportations in one year.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:46 pm

Well, this whole thread is based on the pervasive misconception that Democrats don't give a toss about illegal immigration. They just don't make it into a) the nation's top priority, b) something to get emotional about and c) something that makes you hate illegal immigrants.

But when you're extremely upset about those hated illegal immigrants coming in "droves" and feel something must be done NOW, something as drastic as walling off an entire country, well, I imagine the Democrats' attitude would seem like not giving a toss.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:58 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Well, this whole thread is based on the pervasive misconception that Democrats don't give a toss about illegal immigration. They just don't make it into a) the nation's top priority, b) something to get emotional about and c) something that makes you hate illegal immigrants.


As per usual you are wrong,. I am showing up the double standards of the Democrats today compared to back then

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:08 pm

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Well, this whole thread is based on the pervasive misconception that Democrats don't give a toss about illegal immigration. They just don't make it into a) the nation's top priority, b) something to get emotional about and c) something that makes you hate illegal immigrants.


As per usual you are wrong,. I am showing up the double standards of the Democrats today compared to back then

As none other than Nancy Pelosi recently pointed out, the most radical advocates for illegal immigration in Congress number roughly four. This is nothing more than nut-picking, really -- saying that about 150 million people who affiliate with the Democrats all share the views of a few radicals.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:15 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

As per usual you are wrong,. I am showing up the double standards of the Democrats today compared to back then

As none other than Nancy Pelosi recently pointed out, the most radical advocates for illegal immigration in Congress number roughly four. This is nothing more than nut-picking, really -- saying that about 150 million people who affiliate with the Democrats all share the views of a few radicals.

wow, as usual on the defensive

Those socialist Democrats want open borders, which is basically insanity. They are the same ones who refuse to condemn the Socialism of Venezuela. Which has millions flee the country as refugees, child mortality rise to appalling levels, mass people starving, lacking basic medicines and they have the audacity to call the detention centers concentration camps? When they should be looking to fix the root cause of why people are fleeing. The babrity in these countries where people lack human rights. When will people like you learn that you are never going to fix a problem by using short term fix measures? They never work, unless you fix problems at their core and again these idiot socialist Democrats are even making the matter worse, by calling for people to come and claim asylum in the US. Hence they are part behind the increase in numbers. Not only that they simple do not care about the people coming, they simple want to use them as pawns so they can impliment their socialist policies. Not one has condemned the terrorist attack at the detention center, which they helped incite, with their hateful view of the border patrols and people runing the detention centers. They are simple irresponsible, and as bigoted and hateful as trump

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:34 pm

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

As per usual you are wrong,. I am showing up the double standards of the Democrats today compared to back then

As none other than Nancy Pelosi recently pointed out, the most radical advocates for illegal immigration in Congress number roughly four. This is nothing more than nut-picking, really -- saying that about 150 million people who affiliate with the Democrats all share the views of a few radicals.

wow, as usual on the defensive

Those socialist Democrats want open borders, which is basically insanity. They are the same ones who refuse to condemn the Socialism of Venezuela. Which has millions flee the country as refugees, child mortality rise to appalling levels, mass people starving, lacking basic medicines and they have the audacity to call the detention centers concentration camps? When they should be looking to fix the root cause of why people are fleeing. The babrity in these countries where people lack human rights. When will people like you learn that you are never going to fix a problem by using short term fix measures? They never work, unless you fix problems at their core and again these idiot socialist Democrats are even making the matter worse, by calling for people to come and claim asylum in the US. Hence they are part behind the increase in numbers. Not only that they simple do not care about the people coming, they simple want to use them as pawns so they can impliment their socialist policies. Not one has condemned the terrorist attack at the detention center, which they helped incite, with their hateful view of the border patrols and people runing the detention centers. They are simple irresponsible, and as bigoted and hateful as trump

What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with what I just said.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:35 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

wow, as usual on the defensive

Those socialist Democrats want open borders, which is basically insanity. They are the same ones who refuse to condemn the Socialism of Venezuela. Which has millions flee the country as refugees, child mortality rise to appalling levels, mass people starving, lacking basic medicines and they have the audacity to call the detention centers concentration camps? When they should be looking to fix the root cause of why people are fleeing. The babrity in these countries where people lack human rights. When will people like you learn that you are never going to fix a problem by using short term fix measures? They never work, unless you fix problems at their core and again these idiot socialist Democrats are even making the matter worse, by calling for people to come and claim asylum in the US. Hence they are part behind the increase in numbers. Not only that they simple do not care about the people coming, they simple want to use them as pawns so they can impliment their socialist policies. Not one has condemned the terrorist attack at the detention center, which they helped incite, with their hateful view of the border patrols and people runing the detention centers. They are simple irresponsible, and as bigoted and hateful as trump

What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with what I just said.

You are a democrat are you not?

You have called for open borders have you not?

You are a socialist right?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:48 pm

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

wow, as usual on the defensive

Those socialist Democrats want open borders, which is basically insanity. They are the same ones who refuse to condemn the Socialism of Venezuela. Which has millions flee the country as refugees, child mortality rise to appalling levels, mass people starving, lacking basic medicines and they have the audacity to call the detention centers concentration camps? When they should be looking to fix the root cause of why people are fleeing. The babrity in these countries where people lack human rights. When will people like you learn that you are never going to fix a problem by using short term fix measures? They never work, unless you fix problems at their core and again these idiot socialist Democrats are even making the matter worse, by calling for people to come and claim asylum in the US. Hence they are part behind the increase in numbers. Not only that they simple do not care about the people coming, they simple want to use them as pawns so they can impliment their socialist policies. Not one has condemned the terrorist attack at the detention center, which they helped incite, with their hateful view of the border patrols and people runing the detention centers. They are simple irresponsible, and as bigoted and hateful as trump

What you just said had absolutely nothing to do with what I just said.

You are a democrat are you not?

You have called for open borders have you not?

You are a socialist right?

I have said before that peaceful (emphasize that word) people should ideally have the freedom to go where they wish. That doesn't mean I'm not also realistic and cognizant of the practical need for controls over immigration.

I'm not a socialist, either -- I think the Nordic mixed economic system works best and have said before, I don't want government employees making my TVs and smartphones any more than I want private-sector employees policing my streets.

That may be called "democratic socialism" or whatever label you want to put on it, but it's definitely not Venezuela or Cuba.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Well, this whole thread is based on the pervasive misconception that Democrats don't give a toss about illegal immigration. They just don't make it into a) the nation's top priority, b) something to get emotional about and c) something that makes you hate illegal immigrants.

But when you're extremely upset about those hated illegal immigrants coming in "droves" and feel something must be done NOW, something as drastic as walling off an entire country, well, I imagine the Democrats' attitude would seem like not giving a toss.

Exactly. When Obama set the record for deportation in a year he was much quieter about it and his supporters gave him a pass.

It's not what you do, it' all about style. Obama has style.

Same as when he droned the fuck out of kids. He knew how to do with a professional demeanor.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:02 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

You are a democrat are you not?

You have called for open borders have you not?

You are a socialist right?

I have said before that peaceful (emphasize that word) people should ideally have the freedom to go where they wish. That doesn't mean I'm not also realistic and cognizant of the practical need for controls over immigration.

I'm not a socialist, either -- I think the Nordic mixed economic system works best and have said before, I don't want government employees making my TVs and smartphones any more than I want private-sector employees policing my streets.

That may be called "democratic socialism" or whatever label you want to put on it, but it's definitely not Venezuela or Cuba.

The Nordic countries are capitalists.

You could Google the DSA. They will outline exactly what it is.

It's a mythical system just like Venezuela, except in their fairy tale, it works.

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Post by eddie on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:03 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Well, this whole thread is based on the pervasive misconception that Democrats don't give a toss about illegal immigration. They just don't make it into a) the nation's top priority, b) something to get emotional about and c) something that makes you hate illegal immigrants.

But when you're extremely upset about those hated illegal immigrants coming in "droves" and feel something must be done NOW, something as drastic as walling off an entire country, well, I imagine the Democrats' attitude would seem like not giving a toss.

Exactly. When Obama set the record for deportation in a year he was much quieter about it and his supporters gave him a pass.

It's not what you do, it' all about style. Obama has style.

Same as when he droned the fuck out of kids. He knew how to do with a professional demeanor.
   

What do you mean “droned the fuck out of kids”?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:04 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Well, this whole thread is based on the pervasive misconception that Democrats don't give a toss about illegal immigration. They just don't make it into a) the nation's top priority, b) something to get emotional about and c) something that makes you hate illegal immigrants.

But when you're extremely upset about those hated illegal immigrants coming in "droves" and feel something must be done NOW, something as drastic as walling off an entire country, well, I imagine the Democrats' attitude would seem like not giving a toss.

Exactly. When Obama set the record for deportation in a year he was much quieter about it and his supporters gave him a pass.

It's not what you do, it' all about style. Obama has style.

Same as when he droned the fuck out of kids. He knew how to do with a professional demeanor.
   

There was nothing to "give him a pass" on, as the majority of his supporters had no problem with deporting people with no legal right to reside in the United States.

Again, most Democrats don't agree with the notion of open borders. That's a right-wing rage fantasy.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:07 pm

eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Exactly. When Obama set the record for deportation in a year he was much quieter about it and his supporters gave him a pass.

It's not what you do, it' all about style. Obama has style.

Same as when he droned the fuck out of kids. He knew how to do with a professional demeanor.
   

What do you mean “droned the fuck out of kids”?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-drone-war-is-a-shameful-part-of-his-legacy/2016/05/05/a727eea8-12ea-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html?utm_term=.97ef4b17339d


Children died.


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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:08 pm

eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Well, this whole thread is based on the pervasive misconception that Democrats don't give a toss about illegal immigration. They just don't make it into a) the nation's top priority, b) something to get emotional about and c) something that makes you hate illegal immigrants.

But when you're extremely upset about those hated illegal immigrants coming in "droves" and feel something must be done NOW, something as drastic as walling off an entire country, well, I imagine the Democrats' attitude would seem like not giving a toss.

Exactly. When Obama set the record for deportation in a year he was much quieter about it and his supporters gave him a pass.

It's not what you do, it' all about style. Obama has style.

Same as when he droned the fuck out of kids. He knew how to do with a professional demeanor.
   

What do you mean “droned the fuck out of kids”?

I knew Obama did a lot of drone strikes in Muslim countries while fighting the so-called "War on Terror," so I looked it up. As many as roughly 800 civilians were killed in well over 500 drone strikes ordered by Obama in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen. I didn't see anything about how many of them were children, but it seems unlikely that none of them were.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:10 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Exactly. When Obama set the record for deportation in a year he was much quieter about it and his supporters gave him a pass.

It's not what you do, it' all about style. Obama has style.

Same as when he droned the fuck out of kids. He knew how to do with a professional demeanor.
   

There was nothing to "give him a pass" on, as the majority of his supporters had no problem with deporting people with no legal right to reside in the United States.

Again, most Democrats don't agree with the notion of open borders. That's a right-wing rage fantasy.

Then why are the same people upset with Trump?

I'll answer my own question.

Because they are partisan hacks who will flip flop like mackerel on the floor of boat.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:15 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:

What do you mean “droned the fuck out of kids”?

I knew Obama did a lot of drone strikes in Muslim countries while fighting the so-called "War on Terror," so I looked it up. As many as roughly 800 civilians were killed in well over 500 drone strikes ordered by Obama in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen. I didn't see anything about how many of them were children, but it seems unlikely that none of them were.


https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-01/drone-wars-the-full-data

You can  get the full details there for casualties.
I also do nopt agree with the woke article by the Washington Post. As Obama did not set out to kill children or civillians. Sometimes they are sadly collateral damage in times of conflict. The point is to minimise this as much as possible. Looking at the states for Afghanistan for the last 4 years its about a maximum estimate 10% fatality civillian rate and 90% Militants/insurgents. The minimum estimate fatalities was about 3 to 4%

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:21 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Exactly. When Obama set the record for deportation in a year he was much quieter about it and his supporters gave him a pass.

It's not what you do, it' all about style. Obama has style.

Same as when he droned the fuck out of kids. He knew how to do with a professional demeanor.
   

There was nothing to "give him a pass" on, as the majority of his supporters had no problem with deporting people with no legal right to reside in the United States.

Again, most Democrats don't agree with the notion of open borders. That's a right-wing rage fantasy.

Then why are the same people upset with Trump?

I'll answer my own question.

Because they are partisan hacks who will flip flop like mackerel on the floor of boat.  

If Trump was merely continuing Obama's policies, I'd completely agree with you -- but you know that's not what he's doing.

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:51 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Then why are the same people upset with Trump?

I'll answer my own question.

Because they are partisan hacks who will flip flop like mackerel on the floor of boat.  

If Trump was merely continuing Obama's policies, I'd completely agree with you -- but you know that's not what he's doing.

His policies are not that different.

His attitude is. He enjoys It, Obama didn't.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:08 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

I have said before that peaceful (emphasize that word) people should ideally have the freedom to go where they wish. That doesn't mean I'm not also realistic and cognizant of the practical need for controls over immigration.

I'm not a socialist, either -- I think the Nordic mixed economic system works best and have said before, I don't want government employees making my TVs and smartphones any more than I want private-sector employees policing my streets.

That may be called "democratic socialism" or whatever label you want to put on it, but it's definitely not Venezuela or Cuba.

The Nordic countries are capitalists.

You could Google the DSA. They will outline exactly what it is.

It's a mythical system just like Venezuela, except in their fairy tale, it works.      
Rolling Eyes

"The Nordic countries are capitalists."

Another bullshit statement from people who don't actually understand economic systems and definitions..


It's a lost cause here, Ben, whenever anyone tries to discuss economics with clueless right-whingers like Maddog and Dodge who simply keep on parroting their insipid claims that the Venezuelan dictatatorship is "socialism", and that Sweden's mixed economy is "capitalist".

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:35 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

As per usual you are wrong,. I am showing up the double standards of the Democrats today compared to back then

As none other than Nancy Pelosi recently pointed out, the most radical advocates for illegal immigration in Congress number roughly four. This is nothing more than nut-picking, really -- saying that about 150 million people who affiliate with the Democrats all share the views of a few radicals.

I know. It's whataboutism. Whatabout Obama? Instead of having any concern for the problem.

It's a difficult journey, but the ones that Trump is abusing have already made it. So Obama was being honest, Trump was not. The whataboutism fails.

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Post by phildidge on Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:06 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The Nordic countries are capitalists.

You could Google the DSA. They will outline exactly what it is.

It's a mythical system just like Venezuela, except in their fairy tale, it works.      
Rolling Eyes

"The Nordic countries are capitalists."

Another bullshit statement from people who don't actually understand economic systems and definitions..


It's a lost cause here, Ben,  whenever anyone tries to discuss economics with clueless right-whingers like Maddog and Dodge who simply keep on parroting their insipid claims that the Venezuelan dictatatorship is "socialism", and that Sweden's mixed economy is "capitalist".

The Nordic countries economies are capitalist, that is a simple fact. Other aspects of their policies are socialist in principle. Hence why its classed as a Socialist democracy based on economic capitalism

https://www.bbntimes.com/en/global-economy/the-scandinavian-style-of-capitalism

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:20 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The Nordic countries are capitalists.

You could Google the DSA. They will outline exactly what it is.

It's a mythical system just like Venezuela, except in their fairy tale, it works.      
Rolling Eyes

"The Nordic countries are capitalists."

Another bullshit statement from people who don't actually understand economic systems and definitions..


It's a lost cause here, Ben,  whenever anyone tries to discuss economics with clueless right-whingers like Maddog and Dodge who simply keep on parroting their insipid claims that the Venezuelan dictatatorship is "socialism", and that Sweden's mixed economy is "capitalist".

Who controls the means of production in Sweden?

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pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Maddog on Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:24 pm

phildidge wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Rolling Eyes

"The Nordic countries are capitalists."

Another bullshit statement from people who don't actually understand economic systems and definitions..


It's a lost cause here, Ben,  whenever anyone tries to discuss economics with clueless right-whingers like Maddog and Dodge who simply keep on parroting their insipid claims that the Venezuelan dictatatorship is "socialism", and that Sweden's mixed economy is "capitalist".

The Nordic countries economies are capitalist, that is a simple fact. Other aspects of their policies are socialist in principle. Hence why its classed as a Socialist democracy based on economic capitalism

https://www.bbntimes.com/en/global-economy/the-scandinavian-style-of-capitalism

Sweden has the same type of economy as the US, UK and Australia. The 4 countries have slightly different levels of taxation and welfare spending.

Wolf seems to think that having taxes or government programs makes a country socialist.

The Romans had that and no calls them socialist.

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pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by phildidge on Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:45 pm

Maddog wrote:
phildidge wrote:

The Nordic countries economies are capitalist, that is a simple fact. Other aspects of their policies are socialist in principle. Hence why its classed as a Socialist democracy based on economic capitalism

https://www.bbntimes.com/en/global-economy/the-scandinavian-style-of-capitalism

Sweden has the same type of economy as the US, UK and Australia. The 4 countries have slightly different levels of taxation and welfare spending.

Wolf seems to think that having taxes or government programs makes a country socialist.

The Romans had that and no calls them socialist.  

Have a green

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