Angry Crowd In Minnesota Shouts ‘USA!’ After Council Bans Pledge Of Allegiance Because Of Diversity, Illegal Immigrants

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Post by phildidge on Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:52 am

At least 100 angry protesters vented their fury Monday night against a decision by a Minnesota city council to ban the Pledge of Allegiance, Fox News reported Wednesday.

The group reportedly stormed the council chambers, waved American flags and shouted “U.S.A.!”

St. Louis Park city council announced its decision following a unanimous vote, saying it was banning the pledge in consideration of the city’s “diverse community.”

St. Louis Park is located in Democratic Minnesota Rep. Ilhan Omar’s congressional district. (RELATED: A City In Minnesota Got Rid Of The Pledge Of Allegiance. It’s Backfiring)

“We concluded that in order to create a more welcoming environment to a diverse community we’re going to forgo saying the Pledge of Allegiance before every meeting,” Councillor Tim Brausen said before voting.


https://dailycaller.com/2019/07/10/crowd-chants-usa-ban-pledge-allegiance-minnesota/

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:56 am

Angry Crowd In Minnesota Shouts ‘USA!’ After Council Bans Pledge Of Allegiance Because Of Diversity, Illegal Immigrants 3724572420

100 militant anti-democracy rednecks running wild and making drunken fools of themselves, in a town of how many tens of thousands of inhabitants..

And this story is newsworthy why, exactly ?

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Post by phildidge on Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:59 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Angry Crowd In Minnesota Shouts ‘USA!’ After Council Bans Pledge Of Allegiance Because Of Diversity, Illegal Immigrants 3724572420

100 militant anti-democracy rednecks running wild and making drunken fools of themselves,  in a town of how many tens of thousands of inhabitants..

And this story is newsworthy why,  exactly  ?

How was this a democratic vote in the first place, when it did not involve the people?

Of course its newsworthy when any idiots from the left invoke PC nonsense

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:07 pm

Arrow

Stick those silly self-entitled overgrown brat big-mouthed "patriots" in the military for 3 or 4 years...

Teach those snowflake redneck bastards a few home truths, some good manners and a bit of self-disclipline..

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Post by Maddog on Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:58 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Arrow

Stick those silly self-entitled overgrown brat big-mouthed "patriots" in the military for 3 or 4 years...

Teach those snowflake redneck bastards a few home truths, some good manners and a bit of self-disclipline..

Do Australians get irony?

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:50 pm

phil wrote:Of course its newsworthy when any idiots from the left invoke PC nonsense

Didge, you're whining. Why should 100 people dictate to the duly elected representatives of the ENTIRE population? It’s supposed to be democracy, not autocracy.

If you don't like the council members, don't vote for them next time. Or, start a recall of some or all of them. Or, put a measure on the ballot and see how the rest of the people feel about the issue. There are rules to be followed. There is already a remedy.

In this case, it's the protesters who are carrying on the pc nonsense. They are in fact bawling for their loss of privileges. They want something that has been taken away. If they think the majority of the people agree with them, put it on the ballot.

LW'ers only protest when there is no alternative. The marches to end racism (Selma), sexism (Women’s March on Washington), and gay rights (NYC-Stonewall) were because the civil rights issues in question had never been considered, or were being intentionally ignored by representatives. The purpose of a demonstration is not to supplant the system, but to augment it. When they have a legal or political remedy otherwise, if they just follow it, they have no need to take unnecessary measures.

RW’ers whine when they see some false equivalency. In reality, they are expecting extraordinary privilege because they have always had privilege. That’s not equivalency. Now, as the system rights itself, they whine and moan about their loss of their privilege. They think that it is an equivalent to denial of their basic human rights. Not at all the same.

It’s the consequence of not thinking through the problem. Meh…what else is new with RW'ers?

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Post by Maddog on Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:Of course its newsworthy when any idiots from the left invoke PC nonsense

Didge, you're whining.  Why should 100 people dictate to the duly elected representatives of the ENTIRE population?  It’s supposed to be democracy, not autocracy.

If you don't like the council members, don't vote for them next time.  Or, start a recall of some or all of them.  Or, put a measure on the ballot and see how the rest of the people feel about the issue.  There are rules to be followed.  There is already a remedy.

In this case, it's the protesters who are carrying on the pc nonsense.  They are in fact bawling for their loss of privileges.  They want something that has been taken away.  If they think the majority of the people agree with them, put it on the ballot.

LW'ers only protest when there is no alternative.  The marches to end racism (Selma), sexism (Women’s March on Washington), and gay rights (NYC-Stonewall) were because the civil rights issues in question had never been considered, or were being intentionally ignored by representatives.  The purpose of a demonstration is not to supplant the system, but to augment it.  When they have a legal or political remedy otherwise, if they just follow it, they have no need to take unnecessary measures.

RW’ers whine when they see some false equivalency.  In reality, they are expecting extraordinary privilege because they have always had privilege.  That’s not equivalency.  Now, as the system rights itself, they whine and moan about their loss of their privilege.  They think that it is an equivalent to denial of their basic human rights.  Not at all the same.

It’s the consequence of not thinking through the problem.  Meh…what else is new with RW'ers?

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Post by phildidge on Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:43 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Arrow

Stick those silly self-entitled overgrown brat big-mouthed "patriots" in the military for 3 or 4 years...

Teach those snowflake redneck bastards a few home truths, some good manners and a bit of self-disclipline..


I would imagine the vast majority of those in the Military would join and back these patriots.

What you are overlooking is the reason behind this daft policy was a claim to take into consideration the diverse community of non-citizens. Whilst at the same time, clearly not taking into consideration the actual citizens and residents of the Community. Hence it is a complete double standard.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:55 pm

phildidge wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Arrow

Stick those silly self-entitled overgrown brat big-mouthed "patriots" in the military for 3 or 4 years...

Teach those snowflake redneck bastards a few home truths, some good manners and a bit of self-disclipline..


I would imagine the vast majority of those in the Military would join and back these patriots.

I don't think so.  Not in Minnesota, anyway.

phil wrote:What you are overlooking is the reason behind this daft policy was a claim to take into consideration the diverse community of non-citizens. Whilst at the same time, clearly not taking into consideration the actual citizens and residents of the Community. Hence it is a complete double standard.

I would bet the "actual citizens" would vote consistent with the city counsel, and likewise any measure on the issue put on the ballot.

If the dissidents are dissatisfied, they should put it on the ballot.  If they don't, it's proof final that they don't care that much. It's just a chance to have a party.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:40 pm

How stupid. I presume that immigrants actually want to be in the US, so they feel loyal to it. If they don't, why are they there?

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Post by Maddog on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:47 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:How stupid. I presume that immigrants actually want to be in the US, so they feel loyal to it. If they don't, why are they there?

They tend to be more patriotic than alleged lawyers from San Francisco. Wink

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Post by phildidge on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:50 pm

Maddog wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:How stupid. I presume that immigrants actually want to be in the US, so they feel loyal to it. If they don't, why are they there?

They tend to be more patriotic than alleged lawyers from San Francisco. Wink  


lol!

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:51 pm

Maddog wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:How stupid. I presume that immigrants actually want to be in the US, so they feel loyal to it. If they don't, why are they there?

They tend to be more patriotic than alleged lawyers from San Francisco. Wink  

It's about ideology, Redneck. Professions don't matter...but location certainly does. Minnesota happens to be much less conservative than, say, the south.

Didge was talking about the military. The National Guard from Minnesota can be expected to be a slice of attitude from Minnesota.

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Post by Maddog on Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

They tend to be more patriotic than alleged lawyers from San Francisco. Wink  

It's about ideology, Redneck.  Professions don't matter...but location certainly does.  Minnesota happens to be much less conservative than, say, the south.

Didge was talking about the military.  The National Guard from Minnesota can be expected to be a slice of attitude from Minnesota.

Well, the Redneck mayor would like the pledge reinstated.

It's pretty common prior to the start of government businesses. Kind of like flying the US flag at a government building.

And my statement still stands. Immigrants are often better citizens than folks that are born here.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:41 pm

Maddog wrote:Well, the Redneck mayor would like the pledge reinstated.

He's probably on the other side. I don't doubt that there are two sides to a political question. But, he lost.

Instead of wasting their time bawling like babies, protesters should get a recall petition going, or put the measure on the ballot.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:49 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:Well, the Redneck mayor would like the pledge reinstated.

He's probably on the other side.  I don't doubt that there are two sides to a political question.  But, he lost.

Instead of wasting their time bawling like babies, protesters should get a recall petition going, or put the measure on the ballot.

This doesn't need to go on a ballot. It's simply a procedure for opening a government meeting. Same as what the date and time for the meetings are.

The council got the message. I'm sure they will go baxk to saying the pledge.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:50 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

He's probably on the other side.  I don't doubt that there are two sides to a political question.  But, he lost.

Instead of wasting their time bawling like babies, protesters should get a recall petition going, or put the measure on the ballot.

This doesn't need to go on a ballot. It's simply a procedure for opening a government meeting. Same as what the date and time for the meetings are.  

The council got the message. I'm sure they will go baxk to saying the pledge.  

Well, it's already received a vote of the City Counsel to do away with the ritual. The question becomes, how to override that? I'm pretty sure the Counsel is not in a mood to change it's mind.

The only way to override a vote of the Counsel is by the ballot, or in the courts. I doubt there are legal grounds to get a court to overturn a co-equal branch of government. So...the ballot is the only thing left.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

This doesn't need to go on a ballot. It's simply a procedure for opening a government meeting. Same as what the date and time for the meetings are.  

The council got the message. I'm sure they will go baxk to saying the pledge.  

Well, it's already received a vote of the City Counsel to do away with the ritual.  The question becomes, how to override that?  I'm pretty sure the Counsel is not in a mood to change it's mind.

The only way to override a vote of the Counsel is by the ballot, or in the courts.  I doubt there are legal grounds to get a court to overturn a co-equal branch of government.  So...the ballot is the only thing left.

Horseshit.

First of all, it's council not counsel.

Secondly, the public is invited to these open meetings for the very reason of addressing and or bitching at their representatives.

It's how local government business is conducted.

In theory anyway, a city government is supposed to listen to those that attend open meetings.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:22 pm

Maddog wrote:It's how local government business is conducted.

That's the point. Once a vote is taken, you need a ballot measure to overturn it.

Maddog wrote:In theory anyway, a city government is supposed to listen to those that attend open meetings.

It's a little more organized than having a bunch of Trumpsters bawling, waving Nazi flags and tearing up the joint. The decision is made, and the next step is to petition for a ballot measure.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:It's how local government business is conducted.

That's the point.  Once a vote is taken, you need a ballot measure to overturn it.

Maddog wrote:In theory anyway, a city government is supposed to listen to those that attend open meetings.

It's a little more organized than having a bunch of Trumpsters bawling, waving Nazi flags and tearing up the joint.  The decision is made, and the next step is to petition for a ballot measure.

The council can reinstate the pledge, the same way they removed it.

Do you think people should be allowed to voice their opinions at a council meeting?


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Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:35 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That's the point.  Once a vote is taken, you need a ballot measure to overturn it.



It's a little more organized than having a bunch of Trumpsters bawling, waving Nazi flags and tearing up the joint.  The decision is made, and the next step is to petition for a ballot measure.

The council can reinstate the pledge, the same way they removed it.

Why would they want to?  They've made their choice.  Probably knew they had the votes on their side.  People in Minnesota are pretty liberal.

Something you need to know about politics: officials don't cow from a political fight.  You've watched Trump.  So, you see him wringing hands and fretting about a decision he made that drew criticism?  Most politicians know the polls long before they take a vote.  They know how the people feel.  They know they are gonna win.

I would say this is a done deal.  The fact that the opposition could muster only 100 protesters is telling.  They probably are the only 100 people in the state who feel as they do.  What Fox News is doing is whipping up the support of more conservative voters elsewhere in the country by telling a good story...saying, shame, look at those liberals in Minnesota, siding with Kaepernick!

They are playing the long term, playing to Trump's base.  Even Trump doesn’t care.  His libertarian soul is probably praying for freedom to rape 12-year old girls.  Now that’s a cause for conservatives.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The council can reinstate the pledge, the same way they removed it.

Why would they want to?  They've made their choice.  Probably knew they had the votes on their side.  People in Minnesota are pretty liberal.

Something you need to know about politics: officials don't cow from a political fight.  You've watched Trump.  So, you see him wringing hands and fretting about a decision he made that drew criticism?  Most politicians know the polls long before they take a vote.  They know how the people feel.  They know they are gonna win.

I would say this is a done deal.  The fact that the opposition could muster only 100 protesters is telling.  They probably are the only 100 people in the state who feel as they do.  What Fox News is doing is whipping up the support of more conservative voters elsewhere in the country by telling a good story...saying, shame, look at those liberals in Minnesota, siding with Kaepernick!

They are playing the long term, playing to Trump's base.  Even Trump doesn’t care.  His libertarian soul is probably praying for freedom to rape 12-year old girls.  Now that’s a cause for conservatives.

City councils change their minds all of the time after input from their citizens.

That's why the meetings are open to citizen input.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:05 pm

Mayor Jake Spano said the council’s next step is to talk with residents about what they would like to see before they decide whether to reinstate the pledge. The outline for what that community input could look like will likely be discussed at the council’s study session July 22.

There is no law that council meetings have to start off with the pledge, but if you take a look at two dozen of the largest cities across the state, the majority of them do.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/07/09/trump-tweets-outrage-over-st-louis-parks-pledge-of-allegiance-contretemps/

If someone would like actual facts, as opposed to rantings from a "lawyer".

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:19 pm

Maddog wrote:Mayor Jake Spano said the council’s next step is to talk with residents about what they would like to see before they decide whether to reinstate the pledge. The outline for what that community input could look like will likely be discussed at the council’s study session July 22.

There is no law that council meetings have to start off with the pledge, but if you take a look at two dozen of the largest cities across the state, the majority of them do.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/07/09/trump-tweets-outrage-over-st-louis-parks-pledge-of-allegiance-contretemps/

If someone would like actual facts, as opposed to rantings from a "lawyer".

But Mayor Spano didn't vote in the affirmative on the question of dropping the pledge. He lost. So, for sure he's not the spokesman for the majority. He can't speak for the council when he talks about "next step" or reinstatement of the pledge. If he faces a vote on July 22nd--as much as he talks with optimism--he probably will lose again.

Move on. One hundred wimpy protesters is nothing. Let the grumps take it to a higher authority.

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:Well, the Redneck mayor would like the pledge reinstated.

He's probably on the other side.  I don't doubt that there are two sides to a political question.  But, he lost.

Instead of wasting their time bawling like babies, protesters should get a recall petition going, or put the measure on the ballot.

No need. The esteemed "attorney" is wrong, per as usual.

Are you sure you even live in the US?


MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) – The St. Louis Park City Council voted 7-0 to return to its previous practice of saying the Pledge of Allegiance during city council meetings. The council met Monday and amended its rules and procedures after protesters prepared to defend the Pledge of Allegiance.


https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/07/15/protesters-prepare-as-st-louis-park-city-council-meet-for-reconsideration/

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:13 pm

Cool

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:14 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

The council can reinstate the pledge, the same way they removed it.

Why would they want to?  They've made their choice.  Probably knew they had the votes on their side.  People in Minnesota are pretty liberal.

Something you need to know about politics: officials don't cow from a political fight.  You've watched Trump.  So, you see him wringing hands and fretting about a decision he made that drew criticism?  Most politicians know the polls long before they take a vote.  They know how the people feel.  They know they are gonna win.

I would say this is a done deal.  The fact that the opposition could muster only 100 protesters is telling.  They probably are the only 100 people in the state who feel as they do.  What Fox News is doing is whipping up the support of more conservative voters elsewhere in the country by telling a good story...saying, shame, look at those liberals in Minnesota, siding with Kaepernick!

They are playing the long term, playing to Trump's base.  Even Trump doesn’t care.  His libertarian soul is probably praying for freedom to rape 12-year old girls.  Now that’s a cause for conservatives.

tongue

Wrong.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:21 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Why would they want to?  They've made their choice.  Probably knew they had the votes on their side.  People in Minnesota are pretty liberal.

Something you need to know about politics: officials don't cow from a political fight.  You've watched Trump.  So, you see him wringing hands and fretting about a decision he made that drew criticism?  Most politicians know the polls long before they take a vote.  They know how the people feel.  They know they are gonna win.

I would say this is a done deal.  The fact that the opposition could muster only 100 protesters is telling.  They probably are the only 100 people in the state who feel as they do.  What Fox News is doing is whipping up the support of more conservative voters elsewhere in the country by telling a good story...saying, shame, look at those liberals in Minnesota, siding with Kaepernick!

They are playing the long term, playing to Trump's base.  Even Trump doesn’t care.  His libertarian soul is probably praying for freedom to rape 12-year old girls.  Now that’s a cause for conservatives.

tongue

Wrong.

No, I nailed it. Minnesota is much too liberal.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Maddog on Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:23 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

tongue

Wrong.

No, I nailed it.  Minnesota is much too liberal.

They reversed their decision.

You nailed nothing.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:33 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

No, I nailed it.  Minnesota is much too liberal.

They reversed their decision.

You nailed nothing.

It (the pledge) has become a symbol for white nationalism, since Trump made it an issue with Kaepernick. Several entities around the nation have dropped the practice.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:46 pm

Daily Caller wrote:California Community College Board Of Trustees President Says Goodbye To The Pledge Of Allegiance Over ‘White Nationalism’ History

NEETU CHANDAK

A California community college board of trustees president is ditching the Pledge of Allegiance in meetings because of its history with “nativism and white nationalism.”

Santa Barbara City College (SBCC) board President Robert Miller said to former adjunct instructor Celeste Barber that he would rather pledge to the Constitution than an object, a Jan. 21 email obtained by Campus Reform said. Miller wrote:

I decided to discontinue use of the Pledge of Allegiance for reasons related to its history and symbolism. Our flag is a powerful symbol of freedom and our system of government, but I prefer to pledge allegiance to our constitution, instead of a physical object. Indeed, when sworn in, each Trustee takes an oath to support and defend the U.S. and California constitutions.

I also object to the phrase “one nation under God.” The First Amendment not only protects freedom of speech and religion, it also expressly prohibits laws that establish a religion. The U.S. Supreme Court has expressly extended those rights to those who express no belief in God. Thus, I disagree with the 1955 act of Congress to add this phrase to the Pledge of Allegiance.

Miller added the pledge’s author, Francis Bellamy, was a Baptist minister who wrote it in the 1890s out of concern of the increasing number of immigrants to America.

It appears Trump's attempt to deify the flag has backfired.  The nation is changing, and a lot is happening.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Maddog on Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:14 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

They reversed their decision.

You nailed nothing.

It (the pledge) has become a symbol for white nationalism, since Trump made it an issue with Kaepernick.  Several entities around the nation have dropped the practice.


You were wrong.

I was right.

But we we are both used to that aren't we.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:57 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It (the pledge) has become a symbol for white nationalism, since Trump made it an issue with Kaepernick.  Several entities around the nation have dropped the practice.


You were wrong.  

I was right.

But we we are  both used to that aren't we.  

Redneck, you are trolling.  You're not the least bit interested in the subject, nor the discussion.  Frankly, I suspect it is because you can't hold your own, so you avoid and try to save face.  But the point is, by trolling you give up the debate.  You show you're weak and afraid.

You haven't offered any link to substantiate yourself.  So no, as of now you haven't proved anything.  But even if you have proof, it's one and only one small city.  You can't generalize from specifics.

We've moved on.  There are hundreds, if not thousands of political and corporate entities that are now renouncing the pledge to the flag.  Trump has branded it with his stamp of white supremacy.  Like King Midas' younger brother, everything he touches turns to shit.

Don't be afraid.  Join in the subject now and again.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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