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Post by phildidge on Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:35 pm

This is the moment an arsonist set fire to a synagogue - but ensured an instant comeuppance.

Tristan Morgan, 51, was caught on camera pouring petrol on the religious building and set it alight.


But he is then seen taking the full blast of the explosion in his face in central Exeter, Devon.

The white supremacist was given an indefinite hospital order at the Old Bailey in London today.

He pleaded guilty to arson and two charges under the Terrorism Act, Plymouth Live says.

The footage, played in court, shows Morgan splash fuel through a window at Exeter Synagogue and, despite getting engulf in flames, he calmly walks away.

Morgan pats his singed head and drives off in a Mercedes Vito van.





https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/moment-white-supremacist-engulfed-flames-17479751

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:24 pm

grin angel

Divine intervention...

God doesn't like his temples being defiled..

Whether they be Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu or Rastafarian.

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Post by Vintage on Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:34 pm

Yes could be divine intervention, he seems pretty inept at arson though, he could hardly get through the window.

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Post by Syl on Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:54 am

What a dickhead. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Andy on Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:26 am

All far right fascist racists are dickheads.

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Post by Victorismyhero on Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:49 pm

It was a synagogue.....more likely to be a left wing facist nut job

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:25 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:It was a synagogue.....more likely to be a left wing facist nut job

In America, most Jews are LW...they are the backbone of the left. Thank god for them!  I'm sure it's the same there.

Why would they blow up their own house?

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Post by Andy on Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:41 pm

It's just Vic's weird rw delusion that left = bad, far right = good.
He is becoming more like Didge and SB every day.

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Post by Syl on Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:31 pm

Andy wrote:It's just Vic's weird rw delusion that left = bad, far right = good.
He is becoming more like Didge and SB every day.

It's in the Labour party where anti Semitism has raised it's ugly head recently, so his comment was valid surely.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:10 pm

Syl wrote:
Andy wrote:It's just Vic's weird rw delusion that left = bad, far right = good.
He is becoming more like Didge and SB every day.

It's in the Labour party where anti Semitism has raised it's ugly head recently, so his comment was valid surely.

Again, why would they blow up their own house? scratch

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Post by Victorismyhero on Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:04 pm

its corbyn and his cronies ( the lefts present representatives in the uk) that are the antisemites at the moment....so uou tell me?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:14 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

It's in the Labour party where anti Semitism has raised it's ugly head recently, so his comment was valid surely.

Again, why would they blow up their own house?  scratch

He's not saying that Jews would blow up their own synagogue, he's saying that it's the left wing who are allegedly antisemitic, not the right wing.


Last edited by Raggamuffin on Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by eddie on Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:25 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

It's in the Labour party where anti Semitism has raised it's ugly head recently, so his comment was valid surely.

Again, why would they blow up their own house?  scratch

He's not saying that Jews would blow up their own synagogue, he's saying that it's a left wing who are allegedly antisemitic, not the right wing.

Oh I think they heard him the first time, it just doesn’t sit too nicely is all.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:26 pm

The Independent describes him as "far-right," reporting that he had white supremacist literature and published a white supremacist song on Soundcloud.

I'd have to ask, again, why the issue of political affiliation (like race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.) comes into a story about crime, as though the criminal's political affiliation, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc., is what made him a criminal.

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Post by eddie on Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:46 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:The Independent describes him as "far-right," reporting that he had white supremacist literature and published a white supremacist song on Soundcloud.

I'd have to ask, again, why the issue of political affiliation (like race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.) comes into a story about crime, as though the criminal's political affiliation, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc., is what made him a criminal.

Point-scoring? Moment white supremacist is engulfed in flames after pouring petrol on synagogue 2190311264

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Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:23 pm

eddie wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:The Independent describes him as "far-right," reporting that he had white supremacist literature and published a white supremacist song on Soundcloud.

I'd have to ask, again, why the issue of political affiliation (like race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.) comes into a story about crime, as though the criminal's political affiliation, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc., is what made him a criminal.

Point-scoring? Moment white supremacist is engulfed in flames after pouring petrol on synagogue 2190311264

That and shit-slinging, all based on the fallacy that criminals all come from one group.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:24 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Again, why would they blow up their own house?  scratch

He's not saying that Jews would blow up their own synagogue, he's saying that it's the left wing who are allegedly antisemitic, not the right wing.

Oh, OK...so, changing the subject.

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Post by eddie on Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:24 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:The Independent describes him as "far-right," reporting that he had white supremacist literature and published a white supremacist song on Soundcloud.

I'd have to ask, again, why the issue of political affiliation (like race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.) comes into a story about crime, as though the criminal's political affiliation, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc., is what made him a criminal.

Point-scoring? Moment white supremacist is engulfed in flames after pouring petrol on synagogue 2190311264

That and shit-slinging, all based on the fallacy that criminals all come from one group.

Like I said, point-scoring.

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Post by phildidge on Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:02 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:The Independent describes him as "far-right," reporting that he had white supremacist literature and published a white supremacist song on Soundcloud.

I'd have to ask, again, why the issue of political affiliation (like race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.) comes into a story about crime, as though the criminal's political affiliation, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc., is what made him a criminal.

The person is definately far right

However when it comes to antisemitism, the Far left and Far right are very much alligned in their hate of Jews. Often using each others antisemtic conspiracy literature, holocaust denial literature, antisemetic troupes etc.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:06 pm

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:The Independent describes him as "far-right," reporting that he had white supremacist literature and published a white supremacist song on Soundcloud.

I'd have to ask, again, why the issue of political affiliation (like race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.) comes into a story about crime, as though the criminal's political affiliation, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc., is what made him a criminal.

The person is definately far right

However when it comes to antisemitism, the Far left and Far right are very much alligned in their hate of Jews. Often using each others antisemtic conspiracy literature, holocaust denial literature, antisemetic troupes etc.

I just want to know why everyone has to figure out whether a criminal was right-wing or left-wing; it still doesn't prove anything about the left or right as a whole.

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Post by phildidge on Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:10 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

The person is definately far right

However when it comes to antisemitism, the Far left and Far right are very much alligned in their hate of Jews. Often using each others antisemtic conspiracy literature, holocaust denial literature, antisemetic troupes etc.

I just want to know why everyone has to figure out whether a criminal was right-wing or left-wing; it still doesn't prove anything about the left or right as a whole.

Never claimed it proves left or right wing as a whole, hence why I said the Far left and the far right.
We certainly know the ideology around what caused the holocaust, as we do the pogroms in Russia and later under Communism, in Russia, Poland etc. The reality is that the extreme left and right completely overlap, when it cimes to hating Jews.

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Post by Jules on Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:06 am

AFAIC all arson crimes are murder/manslaughter till proven otherwise. Even in totally 'abandoned' dilapidated buildings there is ALWAYS a risk that some vagrant or druggie is fast asleep in there.


Pure evil!! Cage him & MELT the key.  No

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Post by Jules on Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:11 am

The last time there was arson, people DID die. Six small kids - the offspring of the very arsonists.

They tried to be clever and ended up accidentally killing their own children. The Philpotts.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:20 am

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

I just want to know why everyone has to figure out whether a criminal was right-wing or left-wing; it still doesn't prove anything about the left or right as a whole.

Never claimed it proves left or right wing as a whole, hence why I said the Far left and the far right.
We certainly know the ideology around what caused the holocaust, as we do the pogroms in Russia and later under Communism, in Russia, Poland etc. The reality is that the extreme left and right completely overlap, when it cimes to hating Jews.

Yet you only invoke right wing examples. Both Nazi German, and Stalinist Russia were horrors that turned into authoritarian, RW regimes. Neither were socialist or Marxist. They were both abominations.

Perhaps you ought to amend your theory to say: alterations of theories of original thinkers, turn out to be authoritarian. If a doctor performs a proven procedure that goes awry, do we blame the doctor or the procedure? All you have shown is that going astray = bad things.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:32 am

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Never claimed it proves left or right wing as a whole, hence why I said the Far left and the far right.
We certainly know the ideology around what caused the holocaust, as we do the pogroms in Russia and later under Communism, in Russia, Poland etc. The reality is that the extreme left and right completely overlap, when it cimes to hating Jews.

Yet you only invoke right wing examples.  Both Nazi German, and Stalinist Russia were horrors that turned into authoritarian, RW regimes.  Neither were socialist or Marxist.  They were both abominations.

Perhaps you ought to amend your theory to say: alterations of theories of original thinkers, turn out to be authoritarian.  If a doctor performs a proven procedure that goes awry, do we blame the doctor or the procedure?  All you have shown is that going astray = bad things.
Idea

That's why I prefer the 'Political Compass model over the more simple single-line 'Political Spectrum'

Where you will find both Hitler and Stalin up there at the "authoritarian"/totalitarian end --  actually much closer to one another,  while most people on here will be down towards the "liberalism"/smaller gov't end..

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Irrespective of whether "socialist" or "free market", many contributors here are  still closer to one anothers political leanings than they are to any tyrannical dictators --  whether prepared to admit it or not, (unless it's smelly' and Tommy - where they like to live in their own universes..).

For the record,  I've always landed in the bottom-left quadrant (moderate socialist/libertarian..) close, amid the likes of Ghandi and Nelson Mandela, when I've tried their quiz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

As always, though -- nothing's perfect, and there are still some limitations in it's applications, and some critics not happy with their results ==

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_Compass

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:58 am

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Never claimed it proves left or right wing as a whole, hence why I said the Far left and the far right.
We certainly know the ideology around what caused the holocaust, as we do the pogroms in Russia and later under Communism, in Russia, Poland etc. The reality is that the extreme left and right completely overlap, when it cimes to hating Jews.

Yet you only invoke right wing examples.  Both Nazi German, and Stalinist Russia were horrors that turned into authoritarian, RW regimes.  Neither were socialist or Marxist.  They were both abominations.

Perhaps you ought to amend your theory to say: alterations of theories of original thinkers, turn out to be authoritarian.  If a doctor performs a proven procedure that goes awry, do we blame the doctor or the procedure?  All you have shown is that going astray = bad things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

I see you are coming out with revisionist bullshit again, as Communiosm is based on both maxism and socialism. For you to claim Communims as right wing as as dumb s Tommy claiming Nazism being left wing.

Seriously fuck off and get an education, as i Have no wish to debate someone as a dumb and an apologist of left wing extremism as you

Prehaps you should stop being such a twat within debates, as you are now back on ignore

Bravo

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:08 pm

phil wrote:as Communiosm is based on both maxism and socialism.

And baking cake is based on flower and eggs. Are you saying that there can't be bad cake if the recipe goes wrong?

Nazism simply borrowed the title of socialism, and failed to follow the form. Lenin took Marxism and turned it into Bolshevism. In each case they changed the recipe and fooked it up.

If you take a recipe for crème brûlée, and try to add jalapeño peppers, it's likely to a disappointment.

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Post by Guest on Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:as Communiosm is based on both maxism and socialism.

And baking cake is based on flower and eggs.  Are you saying that there can't be bad cake if the recipe goes wrong?

Nazism simply borrowed the title of socialism, and failed to follow the form.  Lenin took Marxism and turned it into Bolshevism.  In each case they changed the recipe and fooked it up.

If you take a recipe for crème brûlée, and try to add jalapeño peppers, it's likely to a disappointment.

Muslims and commies are the same

you both continually bang on about the golden age of islam/communism/socialism but when presented with dozens of times that your precious ideologies have been implemented and failed resulting in millions dead and even more in permanent poverty

you both say the same thing "thats not proper socialism/communism/islam, if only proper islam/socialism was practiced it would be a utopia and work perfectly"

the truly funny thing is that when these ideologies are put into place, they are put into place by true believers, just like you quill, lenin wasnt a halfway marxist he was a full blown marxist,yet you are basically saying he perverted and corrupted the very ideologies he believed in.

why would true believers corrupt their own belief system?? if socialism is supposed to be this great game change and ake eveyones lives better why wouldnt those in charge implment it correctly?? it would be like farage winning the next GE with a majority and then going to europe and revoking article 50, joining the euro and signing up the EU army.

i think the truer analogy would be the episode of friends where monica makes the meat truffle - she followed the recipe exactly but the pages for truffle and shepards pie were stuck together so she created a monster

thats your ideologies right there - a monster that simply doesnt work no how closely you follow the recipe. its amusing to watch you delcare that of all the billions of people in teh world you alone know how to make communism work properly

step aside soviet union, quill is here to show you how its done





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Post by 'Wolfie on Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:24 pm

Moment white supremacist is engulfed in flames after pouring petrol on synagogue 3408175593

More totally insane bullshit from the craziest Flap'ster crawling around NewsFix at the moment...

"Muslims and commies are the same"

Moment white supremacist is engulfed in flames after pouring petrol on synagogue 3489511464

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Post by nicko on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:18 pm

instead of throwing insults around [as usual] tell us why they are not the same, if you can !
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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:30 pm

nicko wrote:instead of throwing insults around [as usual] tell us why they are not the same,  if you can !

We've had this discussion ad nauseam, nicko.

Here, eg:

Original Quill wrote:Date: 11.16.17
You speak from ignorance, didge.  Or, to be blunt, but kind, you don't know shit about socialism.  To group 300-years of political/economic thinking together, and call it all the same, is shear ignorance.

Socialism has to do with neither the Soviet Union nor the Nazi Third Reich.  That is all part of the propaganda lies told during the Cold War--which is where you get your ideas.  Even Marx said before his death in 1883, the closest thing to what he had in mind was the United Kingdom.  France had regressed since the Paris Commune (1871), and Germany and Russia weren't ready.

Marx believed in a form of evolution known as dialectical materialism.  To him, economics was a science, not an artifice.  Things had to happen naturally, and couldn't be created artificially.  It was because Russia had yet to go through a real industrial stage that the Soviet Union was not ready.  Lenin's answer was to force it by leap-frogging into an industrial stage equivalent to Britain.  

Thus: the Bulshevik state--which Stalin took by the horns and man-handled (the economy) into modernity and industrialism.  Stalin could never have done this with socialism, as socialism depended upon a natural evolution.  Politically, it required an authoritarian, totalitarian system.  That is the very antithesis of socialism.  Russia's soviet system was more in keeping with the Czarist authoritarian scheme, and there's you link to the many deaths that occurred during that period.

China's Mao adopted the Leninist/Stalinist management system, only he adapted it to an agrarian society.  Same problems; same results.  Other regimes that have followed reflect further deterioration of the forced, totalitarian state.  

Marx would have said: I told you so...  Forcing industrialism was a lot like the old alchemists, who tried to transform lead into gold.  When it's scientific, it has to happen according to the laws of nature.  You can't force it.  

The Soviets and China were more like the alchemists, than Marx.  Just as lead won't turn into gold, totalitarianism won't result in socialism.  You can't blame gold, for lead being lead; and you can't blame socialism, for totalitarianism being totalitarianism.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:37 pm

nicko wrote:instead of throwing insults around [as usual] tell us why they are not the same,  if you can !

Mat he speaks the worst revisionist going

Like those on the far right try to claim Nazism was left wing

Now we have idiots on the far left claim communism has nothing to do with socialism and marxism. Where now even more stupid we had that clown Quill claim it is right wing

Its embarressing to watch and read and now I have him on ignore

Its pointless debating with such stupidity, as what they are doing is proving what apoloigists they are

We all know that histories shows that Marxism and pure socialism requires totatlitarianism to form governements. It does not mean they are all interchangeable, as they have differences, but idiots like quill try to play off this to claim they have no connection, when they are very much conneted and hsare many of the sam political ideals

Dont bother wasting your tiume with the idiot. I have done this debate with the revisionist idiot and why its pointless. None of the left wing on here even support his lunacy on this

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:43 pm

I will jusat let someone easily show up Quill being a cluelss wally   Laughing


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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:45 pm


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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:28 pm

nicko wrote:Now we have idiots on the far left claim communism has nothing to do with socialism and marxism. Where now even more stupid we had that clown Quill claim it is right wing

And explaining it in historical detail.  Whereas you have only your Classic Comic books from 1943 to rely on.  

Totalitarianism derives from either side of the road, left or right.  It's the result of perversions, not the underlying theories. But, in the end it's still totalitarianism.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:39 pm


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Post by 'Wolfie on Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:32 am

Basketball

Jordan Peterson is a dick..

And a clueless conservative-minded wally..

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:54 am

Are you sure he is a white supremacist???

He could just be a labour voter

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:54 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Basketball

Jordan Peterson is a dick..

And a clueless conservative-minded wally..

It's so easy to poke holes in his verbal images--I hesitate to call them theories, or even ideas--so I never bother.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:00 pm

Original Quill wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote: Basketball

Jordan Peterson is a dick..

And a clueless conservative-minded wally..

It's so easy to poke holes in his verbal images--I hesitate to call them theories, or even ideas--so I never bother.

Uh huh

You're like that small guy who who pretends to go for the big guy all the while calling for your friends to hold you back

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:42 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It's so easy to poke holes in his verbal images--I hesitate to call them theories, or even ideas--so I never bother.

Uh huh

You're like that small guy who who pretends to go for the big guy all the while calling for your friends to hold you back

Razz Razz  Your verbal images aren't much better than Peterson's.  You use adjectives in the place of facts.  In other words, you don't have any substantiation.

And that is the problem with Jordan Peterson.  He's a showman, not an original thinker.  Now, if you've paid attention, there's another showman on the scene.  Sex trafficker Donald Trump uses the same verbal images to sell real estate, and Republicans, on his properties.

There's a lesson there: Trump has no original ideas, either.  Even his slogan borrows from the past: Make America Great Again.  He sounds like an old-timer reminiscing about how he trekked to school in the snow.

But, hey.  This is serious business here.  Looking at ancient pictures from the old folks home is not helping.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

Uh huh

You're like that small guy who who pretends to go for the big guy all the while calling for your friends to hold you back

Razz Razz  Your verbal images aren't much better than Peterson's.  You use adjectives in the place of facts.  In other words, you don't have any substantiation.

And that is the problem with Jordan Peterson.  He's a showman, not an original thinker.  Now, if you've paid attention, there's another showman on the scene.  Sex trafficker Donald Trump uses the same verbal images to sell real estate, and Republicans, on his properties.

There's a lesson there: Trump has no original ideas, either.  Even his slogan borrows from the past: Make America Great Again.  He sounds like an old-timer reminiscing about how he trekked to school in the snow.

But, hey.  This is serious business here.  Looking at ancient pictures from the old folks home is not helping.

Quill you're the amateur boxer saying "I could beat Mike tyson with one arm, but it's so easy I won't even bother"

Sure pal

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:54 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Razz Razz  Your verbal images aren't much better than Peterson's.  You use adjectives in the place of facts.  In other words, you don't have any substantiation.

And that is the problem with Jordan Peterson.  He's a showman, not an original thinker.  Now, if you've paid attention, there's another showman on the scene.  Sex trafficker Donald Trump uses the same verbal images to sell real estate, and Republicans, on his properties.

There's a lesson there: Trump has no original ideas, either.  Even his slogan borrows from the past: Make America Great Again.  He sounds like an old-timer reminiscing about how he trekked to school in the snow.

But, hey.  This is serious business here.  Looking at ancient pictures from the old folks home is not helping.

Quill you're the amateur boxer saying "I could beat Mike tyson with one arm, but it's so easy I won't even bother"

Sure pal

I notice when you haven't got an answer on the issue, you turn to disparaging your adversary. Shall we stipulate that it means you concede the point in discussion? Because that's what is going on.

It's in keeping with the lack of original thought. Twisted Evil

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Post by Guest on Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:04 pm

You're a showman as well Quill..

Only you're selling snake oil, how many times how you been proved wrong???

Every single prediction of yours has failed to come to pass.

Trump ditched the Iran deal LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD

Trump pulled out of the bullshit Paris accord LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD

He elected kavs LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD.

He clamped done on illegal brown skin immigration LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD

What have you done??? Pissed your panties and watched from the cheap seats

You're a spectator

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:43 pm

Russe wrote:You're a showman as well Quill..

Right.  I'm rubber and you're glue... eh Russe?

Clever.  Rolling Eyes

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Post by Lurker on Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:52 pm

A little bit of Karma. Too bad he didn't burn to death.

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