"I'm Not Sure I'm A Democrat Anymore," Democrats Move Too Far Left

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:59 am

"I'm Not Sure I'm A Democrat Anymore," Democrats Move Too Far Left. A Washington Post reporter tweeted during the Democratic Debate last night that someone said they aren't sure they are a Democrat anymore because the party has moved so far to the left.

The data proves it. Time and time again we see polling data showing that the Democrats have taken a far left turn in the past 10 years, so much so that movements like #WalkAway have started to emerge and regular people are shocked by what is being proposed.

Last night every candidate offered a healthcare plan for illegal immigrants and even went so far as to say we should not be charging people for crossing the border illegally. This is tantamount to open borders and mathematically impossible.

The Democrats have just said they would provide massive incentives and no penalty for people coming here illegally, a move that is sure to encourage more people to take a risky journey.

Trump tweeted that this move by Democrats sealed their fate, it will help him get reelected. But I think it will go further and this far left social justice pandering will help Republicans in general.


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Post by 'Wolfie on Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:22 am

Rolling Eyes

Fucking load of bullshit...

The American Democrats are still a ""right of centre" political party..

Moving left over the past two (not  one..) decades simply means a lot of them are more 'centrist'/moderate-liberals than they were in the 1980s.

The O/P is simply another example of early pre-selection disinformation/misdirection propaganda from the simpering far-right-whinger snowflakes of todays ultra-conservative redneck Repub's..

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:18 am

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:19 am

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:20 am

I suggest wolf, you actually look at the facts, as sen by the studies shown above

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:53 am

phildidge wrote:I suggest wolf, you actually look at the facts, as sen by the studies shown above

Idea

That misleading diagram is looking at the Repub's American-centric version of "liberal" versus "conservative" self-serving propaganda, Dodge...

Not the more "internationalist" economic definition of left vs. right /  regulated markets vs. "free" markets economic-political spectrum version (as taught in university-level economic education..).

Anybody who has actually been studying and learning 'Economics' subjects at both university and senior high school levels will recognise those graphs for the bullshit that they are.

While the American Democrats are following more "liberal" healthcare and education policies, they are still a free market leaning party, which keeps them right-of-centre on both the political spectrum, and the more accurate and defining "Political Compass" model..

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:09 am

Wolf is now trying to say that the Economist, a liberal publication

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/09/20/far-left-candidates-did-poorly-in-the-democratic-primaries

Like i say, the left are continually in denial mode. Where only aprt from a fw oddballs like Tommy, those of us on the centre right and right never denied the growing problem of the Far right


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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:52 pm

Democratic lawmakers are simply moving left to follow the trend of Americans overall.  As Biden is showing, the past Democratic lawmakers have been too right, too wishy-washy, following former Legislators like James O. Eastland of Mississippi and Herman Talmadge of Georgia, both high segregationists.

If that's the standard of previous Democrats...then a break with the past is a good thing.

Democratic legislators have a lot of catching up to do. Democratic voters no longer tolerate segregationists, white-supremacists and motorcycle gangs. It's time their hired people got up to speed.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:00 pm

Original Quill wrote:Democratic lawmakers are simply moving left to follow the trend of Americans overall.  As Biden is showing, the past Democratic lawmakers have been too right, too wishy-washy, following former Legislators like James O. Eastland of Mississippi and Herman Talmadge of Georgia, both high segregationists.

If that's the standard of previous Democrats...then a break with the past is a good thing.

Following the trends of americans?

Its going to ensure Trump wins the next election

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:11 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Democratic lawmakers are simply moving left to follow the trend of Americans overall.  As Biden is showing, the past Democratic lawmakers have been too right, too wishy-washy, following former Legislators like James O. Eastland of Mississippi and Herman Talmadge of Georgia, both high segregationists.

If that's the standard of previous Democrats...then a break with the past is a good thing.

Following the trends of americans?

Its going to ensure Trump wins the next election

So, you are betting that most Americans favor caging children, leaving them in unsanitary conditions, letting them die, separating families, increasing the wealth of the 1%, picking fights with Iran while kissing Putin's and Kim and Saudi Arabia's ass, increasing taxation of American farmers and industrial workers, chasing manufacturing over to foreign nations, ruining markets in the US, and threatening closing of the border with America's no. 1 trading partner?

It is what it is.  If that's what they want, they'll live with it.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Following the trends of americans?

Its going to ensure Trump wins the next election

So, you are betting that most Americans favor caging children, leaving them in unsanitary conditions, letting them die, separating families, increasing the wealth of the 1%, picking fights with Iran while kissing Putin's and Kim and Saudi Arabia's ass, increasing taxation of American farmers and industrial workers, chasing manufacturing over to foreign nations, ruining markets in the US, and threatening closing of the border with America's no. 1 trading partner?

It is what it is.  If that's what they want, they'll live with it.

I doubt they favour caging children, but then Obama did the same. hence by your reasoning democrats also favour caging children, correct? By voting into power a second term. Polls show the vast majority of Americans are against illigral immigration and with good cause. As for one it never tackles the core problem of people leaving their countries under poor conditions. The reality is now the Democrats want to give free health to illergal immigrants when not all Americans even have this. They are placing illegal immigrants over that of american citizens. That is like a goldmine to Trump for relection.

I think the conditons are poor with illegal immigrants and refugees in the US, but it has been in part created by democrats. Who now by their stance will have m,ade the matter a hundred times worse with a view to the world. That people can forgo any view to legally enter the US. They can now illegal enter and when caught will have better care and well being that American citizens. How do you think that is going to make many Americans feel who pay their taxes.??

Let me repeat, I dont want Trump top be elected, but the Democrats are ensuring this is going to happen. If a party offers more rights to people not citizens over their own. Yopu know that party has lost its way and fails to even understand what to do about the problem. The US has seen an unpresidented rise of illegal immigration, because Democrats keep harping on abouyt having open borders.

What really annoys me and we saw the other day a father and child drowned was how the media reacted to this story. Yes its a tragic death, which no blame ios on the US for this. Why did the father take the child on such a periless journey? For one reason, because entering with children garners sympathy. That is exploiting children. The child should have stayed with the mother. As many suffered hardships on such hourneys and are malnourished and parents are placing children at risk on these journeys. Simple to use them as leverage to gain entry. Now you could argue you could blame them, when they suffer already in their own countries, but this is what is wrong and why the whole method to solve this problem is not lookinat the root cause. People are placing their children at risk, because rthey know when there, they will gain sympathy. Which the Democrats are making happen with their stance.

Having sai that the Democrats at least some of them want to tackle the problems at their root cause. Yet they all have to be behind placcing the wellfare of people, their well  being and equality around the world, over that of doing buisness with countries that appalling ly abuse them. The rorot cause here is championing the rights and well being of people in all nations

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:41 pm

phil wrote:I doubt they favour caging children...

They would have to if they favored voting for Trump.

phil wrote:but then Obama did the same.

No he didn't. That's a fallacious RW deception point. Trump changed the goal posts...it's not the same game anymore.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:I doubt they favour caging children...

They would have to if they favored voting for Trump.

phil wrote:but then Obama did the same.

No he didn't.  That's a fallacious RW deception point.  Trump changed the goal posts...it's not the same game anymore.

Its not a lie Quill

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-migrant-children-policy-under-trump-obama-2018-6?r=US&IR=T

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:45 pm

Which more to the point, why is it only now Democrats are speaking out?
I find that bullshit and politically motivated

If OPbama did this, which is clear this happened under him, then where were the drmocrat voicies against him on this?

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:51 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

They would have to if they favored voting for Trump.



No he didn't.  That's a fallacious RW deception point.  Trump changed the goal posts...it's not the same game anymore.

Its not a lie Quill

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-migrant-children-policy-under-trump-obama-2018-6?r=US&IR=T

You miss the point.  It's not even the same discussion: your article is about caging of criminals, a completely different matter.

Trump altered the goal posts and didn't make innocent people into criminals.  Obama respected due process of law.  Trump doesn't.  If you change the game, then there's no grounds for comparison.


Last edited by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Its not a lie Quill

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-migrant-children-policy-under-trump-obama-2018-6?r=US&IR=T

You miss the point.  Trump altered the goal posts.  Obama respected due process of law.  Trump doesn't.  If you change the game, then there's no grounds for comparison.

How is due process okay, when both caged children?

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:00 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You miss the point.  Trump altered the goal posts.  Obama respected due process of law.  Trump doesn't.  If you change the game, then there's no grounds for comparison.

How is due process okay, when both caged children?

Because under Obama the people jailed were criminals, who had broken laws other that mere entry into the US.  Under Trump, all immigrants, including asylum seekers, are classified as criminals.  That's a violation of due process.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:01 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:

How is due process okay, when both caged children?

Because under Obama the people jailed were criminals, who had broken laws other that mere entry into the US.  Under Trump, all immigrants, including asylum seekers, are classified as criminals.  That's a violation of due process.

What the fuck has that got to do with Obama also caging children?

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:02 pm

Either both Presidents were wrong

Or both Presidents are right to cage children Quill

To me both are wrong

So where do you stand?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:06 pm

What is the difference between an asylum seeker and a criminal?

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:09 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:What is the difference between an asylum seeker and a criminal?

One tries to sneak into a country. The criminal, often with then using children for sympathy to then claim they are not criminal

the other declares asyylum at the border

So did you enter this country legally, or claim assylum?

Does that answer your question?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:11 pm

Should asylum seekers be treated differently from criminals?

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:12 pm

There was no equivalency between the actions of the Obama and Trump. Obama was picking up criminals, and holding the children for protective custody. No one argues with the holding of criminals, and protecting children.

Trump is holding everyone, without regard for criminal behavior. He's just rounding up immigrants without cause, and caging them. How would you like to be arrested and held in a cage without cause? Huge violation of due process.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:13 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Should asylum seekers be treated differently from criminals?

Of course they should be treated differently. One should be processed for their claims, the other kicked out, right?

One has to ask why you are now only borther about this, when it happened under Obama

I mean, why did you not sneak into this country Ben?

Is it like many migrants that go through the process, you respect the laws?

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:There was no equivalency between the actions of the Obama and Trump.  Obama was picking up criminals, and holding the children for protective custody.  No one argues with the holding of criminals, and protecting children.

Trump is holding everyone, without regard for criminal behavior.  He's just rounding up immigrants without cause, and caging them.  How would you like to be arrested and held in a cage without cause?  Huge violation of due process.

Oh I see, you are now declaring who is a criminal and who is not and what do you base this on?

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:17 pm

I mean both the argument by Ben and Quill is very redundent. As the view by Democrats is to have open borders and give more rights to people crossing the border, no matter if they are criminals, assylum seekers, immigrants or illegal immigrants.

I mean if you both believe in due process, then your point would be backing trump to process the nass increase and that the democrats should realse money to deal with the problem right?

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:21 pm

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:What is the difference between an asylum seeker and a criminal?

One tries to sneak into a country. The criminal, often with then using children for sympathy to then claim they are not criminal

Crossing the border is a misdemeanor. Not a serious criminal act. There's no proof that children are being used. It's just a RW invention.

phil wrote:the other declares asyylum at the border

But Trump turns away lawful asylum-seekers arriving at the border, cutting staff and falsely arguing overcrowding. He forces them to cross elsewhere. He plays tricks.


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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:24 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:There was no equivalency between the actions of the Obama and Trump.  Obama was picking up criminals, and holding the children for protective custody.  No one argues with the holding of criminals, and protecting children.

Trump is holding everyone, without regard for criminal behavior.  He's just rounding up immigrants without cause, and caging them.  How would you like to be arrested and held in a cage without cause?  Huge violation of due process.

Oh I see, you are now declaring who is a criminal and who is not and what do you base this on?

The law is written by legislators. I'm just declaring the facts: Obama defined criminals as people who committed serious felonies. Trump simply declares that all immigrants are criminals.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:

One tries to sneak into a country. The criminal, often with then using children for sympathy to then claim they are not criminal

Crossing the border is a misdemeanor. Not a serious criminal act.  There's no proof that children are being used.  It's just a RW invention.

phil wrote:the other declares asyylum at the border

But Trump turns away lawful asylum-seekers arriving at the border, cutting staff and falsely arguing overcrowding.  He forces them to cross elsewhere.  He plays tricks.


So anyone breaking into your house to you is a misdemeanor?

Its still a criminal act

How many times do I have to spell this out for you

Unless you solve the proble at its root cause, these problems will continue to exist and will create resentment and divide

You look to solve the issues of poverty for poeople and help them obtain well being and human rights

Simple holding up a becon to say come live here, does nothing for the hundreds of millions left behind in these countries. All you do is ensure, the countryopening the door, is unable to cope with the influx and you create a continious cycle of the same problems

If people have dignity, well being and human rights, a roof over their head and well being. Then poeople are less likely to flee are they not?

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Oh I see, you are now declaring who is a criminal and who is not and what do you base this on?

The law is written by legislators.  I'm just declaring the facts: Obama defined criminals as people who committed serious felonies.  Trump simply declares that all immigrants are criminals.

The law should be rewritten to act against counties that abuse human rights,. but you are against foriegn intervention

You claim to stand for people fleeing whiolst not lifting a finger for the 11 million children that die each year around the world

So where is your moral compass standing here Quill?

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:41 pm

phil wrote:So where is your moral compass standing here Quill?

Obama's got it.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:43 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:So where is your moral compass standing here Quill?

Obama's got it.

I am interested in helping the world Quill and its children, not simple your courner of the world

Do you not think that to help this problem is by bringing about equality, well being and helping tackle poverty in these countries?

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:58 pm

phil wrote:Do you not think that to help this problem is by bringing about equality, well being and helping tackle poverty in these countries?

My goals are more down-to-earth.  I would like to see health care for all in this country.

Then, moving on, fewer wars and meddling in the affairs of others.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:Do you not think that to help this problem is by bringing about equality, well being and helping tackle poverty in these countries?

My goals are more down-to-earth.  I would like to see health care for all in this country.

My goals outweigh yours then, when I would like to see free health care for the world

If the democrats are going to actually spend money on free health care for illegall immigrants over their own citizens, who vote for them. Its a vote losing disaster to do, Being as many hispanic and african Americans donot even have that Quill
Just saying

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:05 pm

phil wrote:My goals outweigh yours then, when I would like to see free health care for the world

But are they achievable? Sometimes one-step-at-a-time gets things done with a certainty, when pie-in-the-sky dreams remain in the sky.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:My goals outweigh yours then, when I would like to see free health care for the world

But are they achievable?  Sometimes one-step-at-a-time gets things done with a certainty, when pie-in-the-sky dreams remain in the sky.

One step at a time?
How is placing illegal immigrants to have free health care over all Americans having access. One step at a time? Thos same illegal immigrants when they become legal then lose this status and then have no medical care. How is that benewfitting those most in need?

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:52 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But are they achievable?  Sometimes one-step-at-a-time gets things done with a certainty, when pie-in-the-sky dreams remain in the sky.

One step at a time?
How is placing illegal immigrants to have free health care over all Americans having access. One step at a time? Thos same illegal immigrants when they become legal then lose this status and then have no medical care. How is that benewfitting those most in need?

I'm quite fond of our neighbors to the south. This is an overwhelmingly wealthy nation, and I have no problem with helping them with the necessities of life.

Also, only a minority of asylum-seekers are illegal. If we didn't have a hateful and racist Trump leading the show, we might be a lot more generous to them. If they were Norwegians, Trump would be waiting at the docks with candy.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:55 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:

One step at a time?
How is placing illegal immigrants to have free health care over all Americans having access. One step at a time? Thos same illegal immigrants when they become legal then lose this status and then have no medical care. How is that benewfitting those most in need?

I'm quite fond of our neighbors to the south.  This is an overwhelmingly wealthy nation, and I have no problem with helping them with the necessities of life.  

Also, only a minority of asylum-seekers are illegal.  If we didn't have a hateful and racist Trump leading the show, we might be a lot more generous to them.  If they were Norwegians, Trump would be waiting at the docks with candy.

And the above fails to answer 11 million children dying globally each year.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:18 am

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I'm quite fond of our neighbors to the south.  This is an overwhelmingly wealthy nation, and I have no problem with helping them with the necessities of life.  

Also, only a minority of asylum-seekers are illegal.  If we didn't have a hateful and racist Trump leading the show, we might be a lot more generous to them.  If they were Norwegians, Trump would be waiting at the docks with candy.

And the above fails to answer 11 million children dying globally each year.

Little steps, my friend, little steps. The Trump administration just killed 7 of them right on our border. Clean our own house before cleaning another's.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:21 am

Little steps, oh for fuck sake

Just how many steps does the US need to fight for the well being and euqlity of many nations?

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:28 am

phildidge wrote:Little steps, oh for fuck sake

Just how many steps does the US need to fight for the well being and euqlity of many nations?

Well, we don't need to be fighting other nation's battles.  The more we stay out of them, the better off we are.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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