Debate at schools is being shut down by a 'worrying trend towards an intolerance of different opinions', warns Ofsted chief

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Post by Thorin on Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:20 pm

Debate at schools is being shut down by a “worrying trend towards an intolerance of different opinions", the Ofsted chief has warned.

Amanda Spielman says that the rise of “single issue groups” including vegan campaigners and anti-LGBT education protesters has meant that a “simplistic, polarising” narrative has formed, “in which the world’s problems have a single, neat solution; where scapegoats abound and critics are seen as the enemy - to be discredited, discounted or disowned.”

She added that the current political discourse has made the job of schools “much harder.”

Speaking at The Festival of Education at Wellington College, Ms Spielman criticised the parents who tried to block schools teaching children about the existence of LGBT relationships.

In April, several primary schools in Birmingham suspended Relationship and Sex Education classes following protests and petitions from Muslim parents


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/20/debate-schools-shut-worrying-trend-towards-intolerance-different/

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Post by Tommy Monk on Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:44 pm

How about schools just stick to teaching core subjects and keep away from promoting any politically motivated/politically correct/social engineering nonsense!?






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Post by Thorin on Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:How about schools just stick to teaching core subjects and keep away from promoting any politically motivated/politically correct/social engineering nonsense!?






So you are against open debate as well then?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:02 am



Doesn't your OP claim that there is no open debate...!?


Which is the fault of the masses of leftys in positions of power and the teachers inside the education system .. as they are too busy promoting the agenda I described on the other thread about white British boys being disadvantaged by the current system...


Stick to teaching core subjects... not pushing any politically correct agenda or any social engineering agenda...



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Post by Thorin on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:08 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Doesn't your OP claim that there is no open debate...!?


Which is the fault of the masses of leftys in positions of power and the teachers inside the education system .. as they are too busy promoting the agenda I described on the other thread about white British boys being disadvantaged by the current system...


Stick to teaching core subjects... not pushing any politically correct agenda or any social engineering agenda...



Its also the fault as seen of racist homophobes like yourself, who as seen wants to stop education around inclusion. That is not open debate from you, its you demaning what should be taught. How very totalitarian of you

Hence you are part of this problem

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:29 am

Core subjects are already inclusive to everyone... as they do not have any politically correct agenda...


So stop talking bollocks!!!



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Post by Thorin on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:48 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Core subjects are already inclusive to everyone... as they do not have any politically correct agenda...


So stop talking bollocks!!!



So stupid its beyond belief again even trying to reason here with such a dummy.

Lets try again, what did I mean by inclusive lessons?

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:02 am



Core subjects are the same for everyone... reading/writing/arithmetic etc... chemistry/physics etc... maths/English etc...


What you want... is to argue in favour of open debate... but to have a system that enforces that only certain views/beliefs are correct/acceptable... and where there is really no open debate to be had, at all, around these things... but just an enforcement of a politically correct agenda for the purpose of social engineering and indoctrination etc...



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Post by Thorin on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:06 am

phildidge wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Core subjects are already inclusive to everyone... as they do not have any politically correct agenda...


So stop talking bollocks!!!



So stupid its beyond belief again even trying to reason here with such a dummy.

Lets try again, what did I mean by inclusive lessons?


and again

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Post by Thorin on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:09 am

So all i see here, is Tommy siding with the Far left intersectional radicals. Who believe we should be intolerant towards people based on their veiws and that for schools to teach tolerance towards people no matter their ethnicity, religion, sex etc. Is some how wrong and ideological to Tommy and these Far left extremists

How often do we see the Far left and Far right come together on issues that they agree on.
Being intolerant

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:16 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Core subjects are the same for everyone... reading/writing/arithmetic etc... chemistry/physics etc... maths/English etc...


What you want... is to argue in favour of open debate... but to have a system that enforces that only certain views/beliefs are correct/acceptable... and where there is really no open debate to be had, at all, around these things... but just an enforcement of a politically correct agenda for the purpose of social engineering and indoctrination etc...



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Post by 'Wolfie on Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:59 am

phildidge wrote:So all i see here, is Tommy siding with the Far left intersectional radicals. Who believe we should be intolerant towards people based on their veiws and that for schools to teach tolerance towards people no matter their ethnicity, religion, sex etc. Is some how wrong and ideological to Tommy and these Far left extremists

How often do we see the Far left and Far right come together on issues that they agree on.
Being intolerant


Night

Idea

That's why the two-dimensional "Political Compass" matrix (with economic idealogy (from communism on the far left through to totally free markets on the far right..) on the X axis, and social/political methodology (i.e. from 'authoritarian'/totalitarian at one end down to 'libertarian' at the other..) on the Y axis..),  works much better than a one-dimensional/linear "Political Spectrum" image, when attempting to place somebody's politico-economic leanings...

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass

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Post by nicko on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:17 pm

Bloody hell Wolfie, that was a bit complicated Laughing
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Post by 'Wolfie on Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:16 pm

nicko wrote:Bloody hell Wolfie, that was a bit complicated Laughing

Razz

The second link (the wikipedia one..) that I gave will probably explain it a lot better.

I just gave the abbreviated version..

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Post by eddie on Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:08 pm

Shutting down debate at schools, or anywhere, is paramount to making a bunch of mindless robotic humans, nodding in agreement.

How utterly sad and ridiculous.

And dangerous.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:11 pm

A simplified version of that, Nicko, is that people's politics affect social issues and economic issues (with some overlap between the two, of course).

Those who want a lot of government control over social issues -- they favor banning gay marriage, etc. -- are authoritarian, while those who favor minimal government control over social issues are libertarians.

When it comes to the economy, you have government control equals left, no government control equals (true) right.

So you can have authoritarian left regimes like the USSSR, and libertarian left societies like Sweden. Authoritarian right would be the modern U.S. under most Republican regimes, while few libertarian right societies exist today but were at least somewhat true of the U.S. Republican regimes in the early 1900s.

Even all that doesn't cover the gambit of all political persuasions, because there are a number of philosophical questions that divide people politically as well.

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Post by Tommy Monk on Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:00 pm



I am against any attempt by schools/teachers/school governing bodies etc, to force onto/indoctrinate children with any politically motivated/politically correct agenda...


Especially when it is aimed at young children, where they are being forced to think a certain way about things that they firstly are too young to be forced to think about anyway, plus secondly should be free to make up their own minds about once they reach the time in their lives that they actually want to start thinking about these things for themselves...!


I don't see how my view to "leave the kids alone" is in any way "far left/right" etc... but more so just a morally right way of doing things, and I think is a much more "liberal" approach about it...!



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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:22 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

I am against any attempt by schools/teachers/school governing bodies etc, to force onto/indoctrinate children with any politically motivated/politically correct agenda...


Especially when it is aimed at young children, where they are being forced to think a certain way about things that they firstly are too young to be forced to think about anyway, plus secondly should be free to make up their own minds about once they reach the time in their lives that they actually want to start thinking about these things for themselves...!


I don't see how my view to "leave the kids alone" is in any way "far left/right" etc... but more so just a morally right way of doing things, and I think is a much more "liberal" approach about it...!



How are schools to avoid being seen as "indoctrinating" kids when everything from biology to the environment to language to even scientific relativity has been politicized these days?

Yes, even relativity: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:Conservapedian_relativity

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Post by Tommy Monk on Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:59 am

Politicians may well try to politicise things... but a school can easily just teach fundamentals of core subjects... free from any political bias, and without any promotion of any politically correct agenda...!


And given that primary school age children only really to be learning how to read and write, and basic maths etc... with the rest of their time being spent doing painting, or messing about with clay or plastercene etc, or drawing/colouring etc, or running around in the playground etc...

It is very easy to NOT force any politically correct agenda on to them...!

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:26 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Politicians may well try to politicise things... but a school can easily just teach fundamentals of core subjects... free from any political bias, and without any promotion of any politically correct agenda...!

And given that primary school age children only really to be learning how to read and write, and basic maths etc... with the rest of their time being spent doing painting, or messing about with clay or plastercene etc, or drawing/colouring etc, or running around in the playground etc...

It is very easy to NOT force any politically correct agenda on to them...!

What are core subjects, and their fundamentals? Sex education? Certainly that is the most fundamental of all.

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Post by JulesV on Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:12 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Idea

That's why the two-dimensional "Political Compass" matrix (with economic idealogy (from communism on the far left through to totally free markets on the far right..) on the X axis, and social/political methodology (i.e. from 'authoritarian'/totalitarian at one end down to 'libertarian' at the other..) on the Y axis..),  works much better than a one-dimensional/linear "Political Spectrum" image, when attempting to place somebody's politico-economic leanings...


This is one instance when the chart is the best way of explaining. Try to do so with words and you just tie yourself up in knots, it might as well be in  Greek. (You did post a link to it, but that is not enough, it should be imbedded, then you won't need words)



The famous chart. This is the basic version, it can be made more detailed if you wish >
Debate at schools is being shut down by a 'worrying trend towards an intolerance of different opinions', warns Ofsted chief   Crowdchart?

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:39 pm

Jules wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Idea

That's why the two-dimensional "Political Compass" matrix (with economic idealogy (from communism on the far left through to totally free markets on the far right..) on the X axis, and social/political methodology (i.e. from 'authoritarian'/totalitarian at one end down to 'libertarian' at the other..) on the Y axis..), works much better than a one-dimensional/linear "Political Spectrum" image, when attempting to place somebody's politico-economic leanings...


This is one instance when the chart is the best way of explaining. Try to do so with words and you just tie yourself up in knots, it might as well be in Greek. (You did post a link to it, but that is not enough, it should be imbedded, then you won't need words)

The famous chart. This is the basic version, it can be made more detailed if you wish >
Debate at schools is being shut down by a 'worrying trend towards an intolerance of different opinions', warns Ofsted chief   Crowdchart?

I had this debate, on-going, with my nuclear physicist brother. He used to say he would read 15-pages of any social science textbook, and then encounter a graph that explained it all for him. He asked: Why didn't they just post the graph and move on?

Great book on this, by Suzanne Langer, Philosophy in a New Key (1942).

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