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Post by Original Quill on Thu May 02, 2019 5:43 pm

You've given them permission to enter your house.  Given 'em permission to enter your garage.  And now, you've given 'em permission to enter your car.

And Alexis will tell them what your plans are, and when you will be away.

Do you get the feeling that you have become a subsidiary of Amazon?

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Post by Syl on Thu May 02, 2019 6:37 pm

No. scratch

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Post by Original Quill on Thu May 02, 2019 7:19 pm

I've had this notion for a while. Amazon Alexis automatically listens to you, so it is ipso facto a bug in your house.

To frustrate porch bandits, Amazon has taken charge of your door, and garage door. So, now this AM, it was announced that Amazon has a service where it can get into your car to deliver packages.

Electronically, they have complete access to your life.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Syl on Thu May 02, 2019 7:23 pm

Well the answer is simple....dont have one in your home.
I dont.

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Post by phildidge on Thu May 02, 2019 7:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:I've had this notion for a while.  Amazon Alexis automatically listens to you, so it is ipso facto a bug in your house.  

To frustrate porch bandits, Amazon has taken charge of your door, and garage door.  So, now this AM, it was announced that Amazon has a service where it can get into your car to deliver packages.

Electronically, they have complete access to your life.


What do people have in the boot of their cars, or garage that provides complete access to peoples lives?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6977563/Amazon-expands-car-delivery-service-include-Ford-Lincoln.html

You do realise this is at the permission of customers?

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Post by HoratioTarr on Thu May 02, 2019 7:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:You've given them permission to enter your house.  Given 'em permission to enter your garage.  And now, you've given 'em permission to enter your car.

And Alexis will tell them what your plans are, and when you will be away.

Do you get the feeling that you have become a subsidiary of Amazon?

Not me. I don't have one. Never would either.
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Post by Syl on Thu May 02, 2019 8:16 pm

People buy into all this new and advanced technology, spend fortunes and surround themselves with the latest gadgets and gizmos... and then complain that they are being owned and controlled. Razz

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Post by Original Quill on Thu May 02, 2019 11:41 pm

Syl wrote:People buy into all this new and advanced technology, spend fortunes and surround themselves with the latest gadgets and gizmos...  and then complain that they are being owned and controlled. Razz

That's right. Only they are sold the gadgets and gizmos under false pretenses. They are sold Alexis under the pretense of convenience. They are sold the Amazon (garage, home or car) under the pretense of security. But they never stop to think, the are giving away the keys to the home, and the privacy of their home.

Even with the best of intentions, all of those things are vulnerable to hacking, in the case of Alexis, or misuse in the case of access. Did you read about those hackers who hacked into the baby monitor? Or the auto-door unlock?

It's the reason why I won't have one in my home.

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Post by eddie on Fri May 03, 2019 12:06 am

Isn’t that a little like Trump saying his microwave was spying on him? Amazon owns you? 2190311264

In all seriousness, there are lots of ways we are being “spied upon”. Facebook is a classic example in many ways.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 03, 2019 1:09 am

eddie wrote:Isn’t that a little like Trump saying his microwave was spying on him? Amazon owns you? 2190311264

In all seriousness, there are lots of ways we are being “spied upon”. Facebook is a classic example in many ways.

A microwave has no transmission function; Alexis does. Even if with the best original intentions, hackers can always intercept the transmission.

Trump's real charge was that Hillary was spying on his campaign. His concern was that wiretaps had been placed on his phone. I don't think he was genuine, but was projecting his own illegal actions.

The FBI have rules and judicial oversight, not to mention Congress, over wiretapping. There are no rules, nor oversight on hackers into random electronic devices.

Nor are there rules/oversight on any company that can collect data. And if Facebook has taught us anything, data collection is a gold mine...your privacy out the window.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri May 03, 2019 2:02 am

Original Quill wrote:I've had this notion for a while.  Amazon Alexis automatically listens to you, so it is ipso facto a bug in your house.  

To frustrate porch bandits, Amazon has taken charge of your door, and garage door.  So, now this AM, it was announced that Amazon has a service where it can get into your car to deliver packages.

Electronically, they have complete access to your life.

Suspect

Only if you let let them...

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 03, 2019 2:23 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I've had this notion for a while.  Amazon Alexis automatically listens to you, so it is ipso facto a bug in your house.  

To frustrate porch bandits, Amazon has taken charge of your door, and garage door.  So, now this AM, it was announced that Amazon has a service where it can get into your car to deliver packages.

Electronically, they have complete access to your life.

Suspect

Only if you let let them...

Yes, but they trick you into giving that consent, by touting it as a convenience. Same as Facebook...they sell a given 'look what you can do with it..." set of goods to the unwashed masses, while selling the data gathered out the back door.

They don't tell you about that part of the operation.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Fri May 03, 2019 10:10 am

I am not at such a stage of geriatric deterioration that I can't get out of my armchair to switch on a light, change a CD or close the curtains, and my life is not so sad that I have to hold conversations with a disembodied female voice answering to the name of Alexis.

The bloody thing is a spawn of the Devil, in my opinion.
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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 03, 2019 3:35 pm

ABC ran a story about it this morning.  More and more people are unplugging the device, claiming they didn't know it was listening 24/7.

WTF!!  That's what it does!  Listening 24/7 is its whole raison d'etre.

Amazon claims that the stored voice prints can now be deleted, but you have to opt out. Go online and flip a hundred switches. I can see it now: grandma, whom you got it for, busy online trying figure it out

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

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Post by phildidge on Fri May 03, 2019 3:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:ABC ran a story about it this morning.  More and more people are unplugging the device, claiming they didn't know it was listening 24/7.

WTF!!  That's what it does!  Listening 24/7 is its whole raison d'etre.

Amazon claims that the stored voice prints can now be deleted, but you have to opt out.  Go online and flip a hundred switches.  I can see it now: grandma, whom you got it for, busy online trying figure it out

How about you share this story

Is this just another case of what generally happens in the US. That a substancial number of people are paranoid, distrustful of everyone and think everything is a conspiracy?

I mean I have searched for articles by ABC and see nothing to back your claim

I think this is more your own view and take on amazon

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 03, 2019 3:58 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:ABC ran a story about it this morning.  More and more people are unplugging the device, claiming they didn't know it was listening 24/7.

WTF!!  That's what it does!  Listening 24/7 is its whole raison d'etre.

Amazon claims that the stored voice prints can now be deleted, but you have to opt out.  Go online and flip a hundred switches.  I can see it now: grandma, whom you got it for, busy online trying figure it out

How about you share this story

Is this just another case of what generally happens in the US. That a substancial number of people are paranoid, distrustful of everyone and think everything is a conspiracy?

I mean I have searched for articles by ABC and see nothing to back your claim

I think this is more your own view and take on amazon

O really...ya think?

ABC News wrote:Could Your Amazon Alexa Be Used Against You?
By ADAM LEVIN Jan 15, 2017

Have you seen the Geico ad with the talking parrot? A 19th-century ship is boarded and the captain is surrounded by pirates. The leader shouts, “Let’s feed him to the sharks,” (pirate cheers and swords held high) “and take all his gold” (more cheers). The parrot repeats these lines, and adds, “and hide it from the crew. They’re all morons anyway.”

The voiceover at the end of the Geico ad explains, “If you’re a parrot, you repeat things. That’s what you do.” If you’re a voice-activated Internet of Things (IoT) device, you don’t repeat things, but you may transmit them.

Voice-activated IoT devices (which, for this piece, includes smartphones and televisions) are always there, just like that pirate’s parrot. You know the services: Siri, Google Assistant, Cortana and Amazon’s Alexa. Mostly, these fine-featured friends are waiting for their activation command — listening, not recording. When activated, they gather the particulars of your life and beam them into a cloud server where your day-to-day existence is, at least in some basic ways, made better, the improvement generally taking the form of convenience or efficiency. But the value of having a digital assistant comes at a personal price that many privacy advocates — including me — worry may come at a cost much higher than the price of, say, the device you need to access the service.

The price is your privacy.

Unfortunately, it is a murder case in Bentonville, Arkansas, that most forcefully highlights one of the more complex privacy issues connected to digital assistant IoT technology these days.

In November 2015, a former Georgia police officer named Victor Collins was found floating facedown in a hot tub owned by Bentonville resident James Andrew Bates. There were traces of blood at the scene, and a coroner later determined that Collins had died of strangulation and partial drowning. There was physical evidence at the scene, but the prosecutor wanted to know if there was more information captured by the Amazon Echo that had been streaming music when Collins died. There was the possibility that the device had stored 60 seconds, which is what it is equipped to do, and that it might still be on the physical device. Amazon declined to help with the investigation. (Amazon did not respond to Credit.com’s repeated requests for comment.)

Why This Raises Questions

It should be said that the producers of digital assistants aren’t trying to create a better pirate parrot. They aren’t in the business of mindless repetition. They are in the business of learning more about you so they can sell you things, or helping others do that, or selling what they know about you to a third party that can use it to make money.

There is so much information potentially. Consumers use digital assistants to help with travel, email and messages; they listen to music, check out sports scores and the weather. They can keep a calendar in order, post to social media, translate documents and search the internet. (When it comes to criminals, these devices could be seen as the digital equivalent of a stupid accomplice.)

Murder isn’t the best backdrop for discussions about privacy, but unfortunately the protections guaranteed by our courts is nowhere in evidence at the consumer level, so it is often the mise-en-scéne for this kind at article.

If you’re a parrot, you repeat things. If you’re an Amazon Echo at a murder scene, you give rise to serious questions about the expectation of privacy in a consumer landscape that has turned personal preference into a commodity. Increasingly geared toward the conveniences of radical personalization, a digital assistant knows how you like things in your home, but given the inevitability of hacking and data compromises, that means that at least potentially all that information could be used against you — and not just in your personal battle to resist temptation in the marketplace and save money.

The digital assistant as a privacy issue may not be a problem for you — some people feel they have nothing to hide — but it is for sure something consumers need to think about before transmitting their lives to the cloud where it may be only a matter of time, or bad luck, before a hacker streams it for laughs or loot.

Remember, if you’ve been the victim of identity theft, don’t blow it off. A good way to start taking action is by checking your credit — warning signs can include accounts you never opened and sudden drops in your scores.

Adam Levin is co-founder of Credit.com and IDT911. His experience as former director of the New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs gives him unique insight into consumer privacy, legislation and financial advocacy. He is a nationally recognized expert on identity theft and credit, and is the author of SWIPED: How to Protect Yourself in a World Full of Scammers, Phishers, and Identity Thieves.

Any opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author.

I think ABC is running a new story about the subject.  The clip i watched this am was on the local San Francisco affiliate, and local stations usually run promos for up-coming specials on national programs.

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If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

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Post by phildidge on Fri May 03, 2019 4:10 pm

Where is the link?

Also that was not today, but two years ago

Its also an opinion piece which does not back your claim people are leaving Amazon

Soi where is the story from this morning by ABC?

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Post by Lurker on Fri May 03, 2019 4:29 pm

I order from Amazon frequently.



I've not given them permission to enter my house or garage. They don't. They don't enter my car. I don't have Alexis. I use Amazon the same way I've used them for years. Nothing has changed.

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Post by phildidge on Fri May 03, 2019 4:32 pm

Lurker wrote:I order from Amazon frequently.



I've not given them permission to enter my house or garage. They don't.   They don't enter my car. I don't have Alexis.  I use Amazon the same way I've used them for years. Nothing has changed.


+1

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 03, 2019 4:42 pm

phildidge wrote:Where is the link?

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/amazon-alexa/story?id=44759936

phil wrote:Also that was not today, but two years ago

Yes, I know.  I started this thread on my own volition, and it was about not only Alexa, but the delivery service as well.

I found that ABC was showing the same concerns about Alexa when I saw the promo this morning.  Then I went looking, and found that ABC has had similar concerns... hence, the article I posted above.

Are we playing gotcha?

phil wrote:Its also an opinion piece which does not back your claim people are leaving Amazon

Pretty timely opinion, doncha think?

phil wrote:Soi where is the story from this morning by ABC?

I don't know...I think it was a promo piece.  That's why I think its coming in the next few days.

Maybe its a repeat.  This was run on April 26th, just last week: https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/living/video/flaw-amazon-alexa-record-users-knowing-54743622

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 03, 2019 4:46 pm

Lurker wrote:I order from Amazon frequently.

I've not given them permission to enter my house or garage. They don't.   They don't enter my car. I don't have Alexis.  I use Amazon the same way I've used them for years. Nothing has changed.

Good for you.  These stories are a warning about Amazon.  All of their new programs pose a risk.

By-the-by, what do you do to prevent porch pirates?

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Fri May 03, 2019 4:50 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:Where is the link?

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/amazon-alexa/story?id=44759936

phil wrote:Again that is two years old and you claimed the article was this morning. Hence why I know no such article existed

Yes, I know.  I started this thread on my own volition, and it was about not only Alexa, but the delivery service as well.

I found that ABC was showing the same concerns about Alexa when I saw the promo this morning.  Then I went looking, and found that ABC has had similar concerns... hence, the article I posted above.

Are we playing gotcha?

phil wrote:Why not just say, it was your view and that no such article existed. That was poor from you Quill

Pretty timely opinion, doncha think?

phil wrote:I have no idea, as all I have to go on is your opinion

I don't know...I think it was a promo piece.  That's why I think its coming in the next few days.

Maybe its a repeat.  This was run on April 26th, just last week: https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/living/video/flaw-amazon-alexa-record-users-knowing-54743622


I would rather see some evidence, to back your claim people are distrusting of Amazon

Of course it would not surpise me, based on the very same conspiracy claims you have just made
In that they lack any evidence and are opinion based. Hence paranoia sets in when someone presents a view, not back by evidence. It becomes faith based

Catch you later

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 03, 2019 5:12 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/amazon-alexa/story?id=44759936



Yes, I know.  I started this thread on my own volition, and it was about not only Alexa, but the delivery service as well.

I found that ABC was showing the same concerns about Alexa when I saw the promo this morning.  Then I went looking, and found that ABC has had similar concerns... hence, the article I posted above.

Are we playing gotcha?



Pretty timely opinion, doncha think?



I don't know...I think it was a promo piece.  That's why I think its coming in the next few days.

Maybe its a repeat.  This was run on April 26th, just last week: https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/living/video/flaw-amazon-alexa-record-users-knowing-54743622


I would rather see some evidence, to back your claim people are distrusting of Amazon

Of course it would not surpise me, based on the very same conspiracy claims you have just made
In that they lack any evidence and are opinion based. Hence paranoia sets in when someone presents a view, not back by evidence. It becomes faith based

Catch you later

Silly waffle. Bye...

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

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Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Fri May 03, 2019 5:58 pm

Smile

"Silly Waffle.."

Sounds like a new flavour of ice cream !

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri May 03, 2019 9:41 pm

Not just because we're married, but I agree with eddie and want to expand a little on that.

Facebook is a large-scale data mining operation designed to allow advertisers to know as many intimate details about its users as possible, to allow for precision marketing. And as scary as that is, it's still really just about trying to sell you stuff. You don't have to click the ads.

Alexa is listening for its wake word; that's why it listens all the time. No voice-operated computer could function without listening for a wake word. And I've seen no evidence that Amazon employees are pouring over lengthy recordings of people's conversations. Even if they were, what would it do with them? Blackmail is illegal, after all.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 03, 2019 10:34 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:Alexa is listening for its wake word; that's why it listens all the time. No voice-operated computer could function without listening for a wake word. And I've seen no evidence that Amazon employees are pouring over lengthy recordings of people's conversations. Even if they were, what would it do with them? Blackmail is illegal, after all.

Which is the reason why I don't have a 'voice-operated' computer.

Amazon has admitted that they review voice recordings.

Amazon wrote:Review Your Voice Recordings

You can review and listen to voice recordings associated with your account.

In the Alexa app or on the Alexa privacy page you can:

Review transcripts

Listen to voice recordings

Delete voice recordings one by one or all at once

In the Alexa app, go to Settings > Alexa Account > Alexa Privacy or visit https://www.amazon.com/alexaprivacy.

To learn more, go to Alexa and Alexa Device FAQs.

To learn more, about Alexa and privacy, see Alexa, Echo Devices, and Your Privacy.

Note:

* When using an Alexa-enabled device, the voice recordings associated with your account are used to improve the accuracy of the results.

* If you delete voice recordings, it could degrade your experience when using the device.

* Deleting voice recordings does not delete your Alexa Messages.

* You may be able to review and play back voice recordings as the deletion request is being processed.

Their excuse is that they are studying for vocal inflections.

What it boils down to is, do you trust 'em?  Or Donald Trump?  Or Vladimir Putin?

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

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Post by eddie on Fri May 03, 2019 10:41 pm

Quill, you think that Alexa “listening”, is Trump’s doing?

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Post by Original Quill on Fri May 03, 2019 11:04 pm

eddie wrote:Quill, you think that Alexa “listening”, is Trump’s doing?

I think Trump is slowly taking over all levers of power.  He's just succeeded in taking over the Department of Justice, which once was his biggest obstacle what with its independence.

I think Trump, with the help of a Republican Senate, will similarly take over all pockets of power.  He has already tried to silence CNN.  If he realizes that Alexa is just like Orwell's 1984, he may indeed try to take possession.

Right now Trump is trailing all contenders in all polls.  Watch what happens when he loses in 2020.  What do you wanna bet he claims the election was rigged?  Further, what do you wanna bet he refuses to leave the White House...claiming he was the legitimate winner, and fake news was trying to manipulate the people?

Isn't that just what he's done with the Mueller Report--i.e., he pulled out a fake one, written by his stooge Wm. Barr, and declared himself the winner.  He'll call it an 'attempted coup' just as with the Mueller investigation.

It depends on whether the military goes along with it.  You've seen dictators take over, haven't you?

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri May 03, 2019 11:15 pm

I think it's highly unlikely that Trump will try to become president for life. I think he has more of an eye toward one of his sons succeeding him, actually -- and his deluded ego, as far as I can tell, won't allow him to face how ridiculous that idea really is.

Trump seems to think that the only opinions that matter come from people who think he's great, and as long as he has his fans, I think he'll be whatever passes for "satisfied" in his mind.

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Post by Lurker on Sat May 04, 2019 3:06 am

Original Quill wrote:
Lurker wrote:I order from Amazon frequently.

I've not given them permission to enter my house or garage. They don't.   They don't enter my car. I don't have Alexis.  I use Amazon the same way I've used them for years. Nothing has changed.

Good for you.  These stories are a warning about Amazon.  All of their new programs pose a risk.

By-the-by, what do you do to prevent porch pirates?

I'm retired and home when the delivery is made.

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 04, 2019 3:29 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:I think it's highly unlikely that Trump will try to become president for life. I think he has more of an eye toward one of his sons succeeding him, actually -- and his deluded ego, as far as I can tell, won't allow him to face how ridiculous that idea really is.

We all thought it highly unlikely that Trump would be elected.  We all thought it highly unlikely that Trump would turn on NATO.  We all thought it highly unlikely that Trump would having Russian meetings, with no US persons in attendance.  We all thought it highly unlikely that Trump would give away secret military plans given us by Israel.  We all thought it highly unlikely that Trump would separate families at the border.  We all thought it highly unlikely that Trump would put children in cages.  We all thought it highly unlikely that Trump would keep no records so that no children could be reunited with their parents.

Do you sense that an awful lot of "highly unlikelys" are happening?  Trust me...Trump will be defeated in 2020, and he will say the election was rigged.  It's at least 50/50 that he will refuse to vacate the office, and a Constitutional crisis will ensue.

As an added incentive, Trump is sure to face criminal charges when he is no longer president. Thus, he has a lot of incentive to hold on to the ofice.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Sat May 04, 2019 4:09 am

Does not matter if trump claims the election to be rigged, if he loses the next Presidential election Quill. As he would need and require the support of the majority of the armed forces, to retain power.

I think you seriously fail to understand the very values tha is instilled into Americans, in regards to Liberty and how and why no such reality would happen within this lifetime. Americans have always valued their liberty and would never allow a dictatoship to form in the US.

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Post by Lurker on Sat May 04, 2019 1:07 pm

phildidge wrote:Does not matter if trump claims the election to be rigged, if he loses the next Presidential election Quill. As he would need and require the support of the majority of the armed forces, to retain power.

I think you seriously fail to understand the very values tha is instilled into Americans, in regards to Liberty and how and why no such reality would happen within this lifetime. Americans have always valued their liberty and would never allow a dictatoship to form in the US.

Too Late. The Trump Administration is a Mafia dictatorship already.

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Post by Maddog on Sat May 04, 2019 3:34 pm

I think Trump is watching this site tòo. Shocked Cool

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 04, 2019 4:27 pm

phildidge wrote:Does not matter if trump claims the election to be rigged, if he loses the next Presidential election Quill. As he would need and require the support of the majority of the armed forces, to retain power.

I agree he would need and require the support of the armed forces.  But, don't forget that he is the commander-in-chief of all of the armed forces.  If he refuses to vacate the office he could mobilize the military on his behalf.

Can you believe we've reached this point?


Last edited by Original Quill on Sat May 04, 2019 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Sat May 04, 2019 4:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:Does not matter if trump claims the election to be rigged, if he loses the next Presidential election Quill. As he would need and require the support of the majority of the armed forces, to retain power.

I agree he would need and require the support of the armed forces.  But, don't forget that he is the commander-in-chief of all of the military.  If he refuses to vacate the office he could mobilize the military on his behalf.

Can you believe we've reached this point?


Does that mean they would obey him Quill?

Remember, the oath is to serve the nation and if he fails to step down, then the Military has the power to remove dictators from power

So no, I do not believe we have reached this point and in reality. The democrats are so divided, they have little hope of beating him in the next Presidential elections.

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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 04, 2019 4:44 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I agree he would need and require the support of the armed forces.  But, don't forget that he is the commander-in-chief of all of the military.  If he refuses to vacate the office he could mobilize the military on his behalf.

Can you believe we've reached this point?

Does that mean they would obey him Quill?

That's the big question.  I only say: Can you believe we've reached this point?

phil wrote:Remember, the oath is to serve the nation and if he fails to step down, then the Military has the power to remove dictators from power

Indeed...the same oath taken by AG Wm. Barr, and in fact the President. I know of no authority by which the armed forces can countermand the orders of the commander-in-chief.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Original Quill on Sat May 04, 2019 4:47 pm

phil wrote:I think you seriously fail to understand the very values tha is instilled into Americans, in regards to Liberty and how and why no such reality would happen within this lifetime. Americans have always valued their liberty and would never allow a dictatoship to form in the US.

If Trump is adept at anything, he is most skilled at destroying instilled values of American life...from grabbing pussy when you're famous, to destroying the line between the DOJ and the WH, or declaring a national emergency to override Congress.

Americans have long since become snowflakes, and guns--even those AR-15's--are mere symbols for 2nd Amendment enthusiasts.  They are no match for F-18's and/or Apaches.

But we digress. This started out as a discussion about Amazon.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by eddie on Sat May 04, 2019 11:57 pm

If you are dissatisfied with Trump being elected, stop moaning about it and take steps to change the way your voting systems work.
Join groups, go on demonstrations.


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Post by Original Quill on Sun May 05, 2019 4:44 am

eddie wrote:If you are dissatisfied with Trump being elected, stop moaning about it and take steps to change the way your voting systems work.
Join groups, go on demonstrations.

That is already in the works.  One problem is that Trump was elected with cyber tampering of election machines in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.  Remember, Trump lost the popular vote by 3-million votes.  He won most strategically by manipulating the electoral college votes in those three states.  The way to remedy this is for the executive department to take action.

But alas, Trump, who benefited from the tampering, is loath to change anything.  He refuses to let the Department of Homeland Security, who would have jurisdiction, do anything or even bring up the subject at Cabinet meetings.  He denies it happened, despite Mueller actually indicting several Russians.  Despite the word of all the counter espionage-agencies in the US, Trump points to Putin’s denial and says he believes him.

Trump had a private, hour-long, telephone conversation with Vladimir Putin yesterday.  Speculation is that it was an 'atta-boy' and 'do it again in 2020' message from Trump to Vlad.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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