Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe"

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Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:16 pm

Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe" Poway-abc-er-190428_hpMain_16x9_608

At the age of 8, Noya Dahan has already fled rocket attacks in the Gaza Strip, witnessed her home in California vandalized with anti-Semitic graffiti and, now, she's survived a shooting at her synagogue that left one beloved member dead and she, her rabbi and her uncle with bullet wounds.

The youngest victim of Saturday's shooting at the Chabad of Poway synagogue near San Diego, Noya told ABC News that the safety of the one place she used to feel secure in, a synagogue, has been shattered.

"I never thought that was going to happen to me because like it's a safe place, you're supposed to feel safe," she said.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/youngest-victim-california-synagogue-shooting-says-dont-feel-234300483--abc-news-topstories.html

I think it's so sad when children get caught up in crazy people's political violence. How do you explain to a child like this why a man wanted to shoot her, along with her family and friends?
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Post by Maddog on Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:38 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe" Poway-abc-er-190428_hpMain_16x9_608

At the age of 8, Noya Dahan has already fled rocket attacks in the Gaza Strip, witnessed her home in California vandalized with anti-Semitic graffiti and, now, she's survived a shooting at her synagogue that left one beloved member dead and she, her rabbi and her uncle with bullet wounds.

The youngest victim of Saturday's shooting at the Chabad of Poway synagogue near San Diego, Noya told ABC News that the safety of the one place she used to feel secure in, a synagogue, has been shattered.

"I never thought that was going to happen to me because like it's a safe place, you're supposed to feel safe," she said.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/youngest-victim-california-synagogue-shooting-says-dont-feel-234300483--abc-news-topstories.html

I think it's so sad when children get caught up in crazy people's political violence. How do you explain to a child like this why a man wanted to shoot her, along with her family and friends?

How do you explain this to these kids?

Law enforcement officials have released little information about a police shooting Friday afternoon in a southeastern Oklahoma town, declining to provide answers to what led officers to shoot at a robbery suspect in a pickup truck — injuring him and three of the four children inside.

Agents with the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) say they are still interviewing witnesses to the shooting, which occurred at 2 p.m. Friday near a home in Hugo, a town of 5,000 people.

Hugo police detectives had been looking for William Devaughn Smith, a 21-year-old suspect in an April 11 robbery at a local Pizza Hut. The detectives were “attempting to make contact” with Smith at a community food center Friday when “shots were fired” at 400 W. Bissell St., state authorities said in a news release.

Smith, a woman and four unidentified children were in a green pickup when the shooting broke out. Smith was injured, as were three of the children. Authorities have not released the names of the injured children, but OSBI spokeswoman Brook Arbeitman said they were 5 and younger and suffered injuries that weren’t life-threatening.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/04/27/police-shot-vehicle-robbery-suspect-hit-children-inside/?utm_term=.eb4768432337

Tragedy is part of life. Kids suffer because adults are dickheads far too often.

Hell, 500 of them are killed every year in this country by their own damn parents every year. How do you explain that to the siblings that don't get killed?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:49 pm

That seems a little whataboutist, as the topic is this 8-year-old shooting victim, but yeah -- stuff like that.

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Post by Maddog on Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:50 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:That seems a little whataboutist, as the topic is this 8-year-old shooting victim, but yeah -- stuff like that.

How old were the victims on OK? Is it whataboutism if they are not 8?

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Post by Maddog on Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:51 pm

I just checked, they are all under 5, so I guess it is whataboutism.

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Post by Syl on Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:47 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe" Poway-abc-er-190428_hpMain_16x9_608

At the age of 8, Noya Dahan has already fled rocket attacks in the Gaza Strip, witnessed her home in California vandalized with anti-Semitic graffiti and, now, she's survived a shooting at her synagogue that left one beloved member dead and she, her rabbi and her uncle with bullet wounds.

The youngest victim of Saturday's shooting at the Chabad of Poway synagogue near San Diego, Noya told ABC News that the safety of the one place she used to feel secure in, a synagogue, has been shattered.

"I never thought that was going to happen to me because like it's a safe place, you're supposed to feel safe," she said.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/youngest-victim-california-synagogue-shooting-says-dont-feel-234300483--abc-news-topstories.html

I think it's so sad when children get caught up in crazy people's political violence. How do you explain to a child like this why a man wanted to shoot her, along with her family and friends?
I think it will take years for that little girl to feel safe again, maybe she never will.

Years ago my son was badly beaten up by a gang of lads as he was walking home one night.When he came in, the sight of him bleeding and in pain changed the way I felt  for quite a while, I was so scared for him and the world suddenly   seemed like a dangerous place....it was very unsettling.

That was a drop in the ocean to what this girl saw, and I am an adult not a child.

Hopefully there will be ongoing help for her and others like her who have been involved in these so familiar atrocities.

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Post by nicko on Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:13 am

Religion , a curse on the World !
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Post by Syl on Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:04 pm

nicko wrote:Religion , a curse on the World !

I think it's hate that is the curse tbh Nicko.
The maniacs who do this kind of thing cite religion as the cause that drives them, if there was no such thing as religion they would find something else to pin their hatred on.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:59 pm

Syl wrote:
nicko wrote:Religion , a curse on the World !

I think it's hate that is the curse tbh Nicko.
The maniacs who do this kind of thing cite religion as the cause that drives them, if there was no such thing as religion they would find something else to pin their hatred on.

But if there are causes that drive hate, shouldn't they be looked into? Religion is neither factual, nor logical. It is creed...perhaps the last vestige of irrationality in history.

It could well be the source, at least, of the last mechanics of conflict...selfishness, the pedestal of capitalism, being the other.

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Post by Syl on Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

I think it's hate that is the curse tbh Nicko.
The maniacs who do this kind of thing cite religion as the cause that drives them, if there was no such thing as religion they would find something else to pin their hatred on.

But if there are causes that drive hate, shouldn't they be looked into?  Religion is neither factual, nor logical.  It is creed...perhaps the last vestige of irrationality in history.

It could well be the source, at least, of the last mechanics of conflict...selfishness, the pedestal of capitalism, being the other.

And if there was no such thing in the world as religion, some other difference would be targeted.
Power and hatred is the curse of the world. Some people just hate and fear others who wont follow their path.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:07 pm

nicko wrote:Religion , a curse on the World !


I think in this case, religion was the target not the perpretaror.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:19 pm

Maddog wrote:
nicko wrote:Religion , a curse on the World !


I think in this case, religion was the target not the perpretaror.

It was both, don't you think?

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Post by Maddog on Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:


I think in this case, religion was the target not the perpretaror.

It was both, don't you think?

I don't know. Did the shooter make comments about his religion? I thought he was more of the atheist Nazi type.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:25 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It was both, don't you think?

I don't know. Did the shooter make comments about his religion? I thought he was more of the atheist Nazi type.  

I think he was targeting Jews. Remember, a lot of white-supremacists and southerners think that Jews are the source of their troubles. In the Charlottesville march, they were chanting "Jews will not replace us.'

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Post by Maddog on Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I don't know. Did the shooter make comments about his religion? I thought he was more of the atheist Nazi type.  

I think he was targeting Jews.  Remember, a lot of white-supremacists and southerners think that Jews are the source of their troubles.  In the Charlottesville march, they were chanting "Jews will not replace us.'

I know who he targeted. That's why I said what I said. Do you have something indicating he was on some sort of religions jihad, or will you expose us to more of your.logical fallacies?

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:35 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I think he was targeting Jews.  Remember, a lot of white-supremacists and southerners think that Jews are the source of their troubles.  In the Charlottesville march, they were chanting "Jews will not replace us.'

I know who he targeted. That's why I said what I said. Do you have something indicating he was on some sort of religions jihad, or will you expose us to more of your.logical fallacies?

MSNBC reported yesterday that he radicalized, and was motivated by participation in websites that applauded the Charlottesville march.

Also, this came on the precise anniversary of the Pittsburgh event, suggesting it's a pattern.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I think he was targeting Jews.  Remember, a lot of white-supremacists and southerners think that Jews are the source of their troubles.  In the Charlottesville march, they were chanting "Jews will not replace us.'

I know who he targeted. That's why I said what I said. Do you have something indicating he was on some sort of religions jihad, or will you expose us to more of your.logical fallacies?

MSNBC reported yesterday that he radicalized, and was motivated by participation in websites that applauded the Charlottesville march.

Also, this came on the precise anniversary of the Pittsburgh event, suggesting it's a pattern.

But it seemed as if you were saying the shooter's own religion motivated him -- I think that's what Maddog was asking about.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed May 01, 2019 4:44 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

MSNBC reported yesterday that he radicalized, and was motivated by participation in websites that applauded the Charlottesville march.

Also, this came on the precise anniversary of the Pittsburgh event, suggesting it's a pattern.

But it seemed as if you were saying the shooter's own religion motivated him -- I think that's what Maddog was asking about.

For some reason, white-supremacists have singled out Jews. Don't see it, cause Jews are white too. So I can't say that some internal religion motivated him, just his adherence to whiteness.

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Post by smelly-bandit on Wed May 01, 2019 7:24 am

Original Quill wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

But it seemed as if you were saying the shooter's own religion motivated him -- I think that's what Maddog was asking about.

For some reason, white-supremacists have singled out Jews.  Don't see it, cause Jews are white too.  So I can't say that some internal religion motivated him, just his adherence to whiteness.

Is the UK Labour Party doing a tour of the US??

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Post by nicko on Wed May 01, 2019 11:43 am

It all comes down to "my religion is bigger than your" !
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Post by Maddog on Wed May 01, 2019 1:27 pm

Original Quill wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

But it seemed as if you were saying the shooter's own religion motivated him -- I think that's what Maddog was asking about.

For some reason, white-supremacists have singled out Jews.  Don't see it, cause Jews are white too.  So I can't say that some internal religion motivated him, just his adherence to whiteness.

So he wasn't motivated by his religion.

BTW, according to his ramblings he despised Muslims too. He didn't like Trump either. Some.folks don't fit neatly into boxes.

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Post by smelly-bandit on Wed May 01, 2019 3:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

But it seemed as if you were saying the shooter's own religion motivated him -- I think that's what Maddog was asking about.

For some reason, white-supremacists have singled out Jews.  Don't see it, cause Jews are white too.  So I can't say that some internal religion motivated him, just his adherence to whiteness.

That's not entirely true, certainly not for European Jews in any case.

The greatest concentrations of anti semitic abuse coincides with areas that have high levels of Muslim immigrant settlers.

Malmo in Sweden is a prime example

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Post by nicko on Wed May 01, 2019 4:25 pm

I read that Malmo is the rape capital of Europe ?
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Post by Original Quill on Wed May 01, 2019 4:30 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But if there are causes that drive hate, shouldn't they be looked into?  Religion is neither factual, nor logical.  It is creed...perhaps the last vestige of irrationality in history.

It could well be the source, at least, of the last mechanics of conflict...selfishness, the pedestal of capitalism, being the other.

And if there was no such thing in the world as religion, some other difference would be targeted.

Can you elaborate?

Syl wrote:Power and hatred is the curse of the world. Some people just hate and fear others who wont follow their path.

You've merely restated the problem.  We already know "power and hatred" is a problem.  The real question is, what causes the power and hatred?  I've identified another source [ie, other than religion]: selfishness, as in capitalism.  Do you agree?

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Post by Original Quill on Wed May 01, 2019 4:34 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

For some reason, white-supremacists have singled out Jews.  Don't see it, cause Jews are white too.  So I can't say that some internal religion motivated him, just his adherence to whiteness.

That's not entirely true, certainly not for European Jews in any case.

The greatest concentrations of anti semitic abuse coincides with areas that have high levels of Muslim immigrant settlers.

Malmo in Sweden is a prime example

White-supremacists have coined a slogan: "Jews will not replace us." It's a pretty clear declaration of hostility toward Jews. Can you explain why?

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Post by Syl on Wed May 01, 2019 4:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

And if there was no such thing in the world as religion, some other difference would be targeted.

Can you elaborate?

Syl wrote:Power and hatred is the curse of the world. Some people just hate and fear others who wont follow their path.

You've merely restated the problem.  We already know "power and hatred" is a problem.  The real question is, what causes the power and hatred?  I've identified another source [ie, other than religion]: selfishness, as in capitalism.  Do you agree?

What causes the power and hatred? Human greed obviously.
Capitalism could only work if everyone had something to barter with....not everyone has.

I dont have any answers Quill, I often dont even understand the questions. scratch

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Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe" Empty Re: Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe"

Post by Original Quill on Wed May 01, 2019 5:19 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Can you elaborate?



You've merely restated the problem.  We already know "power and hatred" is a problem.  The real question is, what causes the power and hatred?  I've identified another source [ie, other than religion]: selfishness, as in capitalism.  Do you agree?

What causes the power and hatred? Human greed obviously.  
Capitalism could only work if everyone had something to barter with....not everyone has.

I dont have any answers Quill, I often dont even understand the questions. scratch

You're doing pretty well, if I may say so Syl. Yes, selfishness is the underlying cause. A social program based upon selfishness is bound to promote an increase of "power and hatred".

Republicans and Tories totally base their programs on promoting selfish capitalism. This means that they separate themselves from common people (there are more common people than millionaires). But common people are the voters, and votes are what count in elections.

Hence, all the lies you see coming from the right. Deception is the only resort for the wealthy.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe" Empty Re: Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe"

Post by Syl on Wed May 01, 2019 5:23 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

What causes the power and hatred? Human greed obviously.  
Capitalism could only work if everyone had something to barter with....not everyone has.

I dont have any answers Quill, I often dont even understand the questions. scratch

You're doing pretty well, if I may say so Syl.  Yes, selfishness is the underlying cause.  A social program based upon selfishness is bound to promote an increase of "power and hatred".

Republicans and Tories totally base their programs on promoting selfish capitalism.  This means that they separate themselves from common people (there are more common people than millionaires).  But common people are the voters, and votes are what count in elections.

Hence, all the lies you see coming from the right.  Deception is the only resort for the wealthy.

Have a alien for recognising my well hidden intellect Quill. Razz

And for making some spot on remarks about the Greed is good Tory party.

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Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe" Empty Re: Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe"

Post by Original Quill on Wed May 01, 2019 5:54 pm

Laughing

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by smelly-bandit on Wed May 01, 2019 6:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

That's not entirely true, certainly not for European Jews in any case.

The greatest concentrations of anti semitic abuse coincides with areas that have high levels of Muslim immigrant settlers.

Malmo in Sweden is a prime example

White-supremacists have coined a slogan: "Jews will not replace us."  It's a pretty clear declaration of hostility toward Jews.  Can you explain why?

It's the same "us vs them" rethoric used by every group with and agenda and a scapegoat

For Democrats the "them" was the basket of deplorable voting for the other guy.

The UK Labour Party is basically the new nazi party with some of the stuff they come out with, Corbyn may as well be quoting mein kampf when he talks about party policy.

For white supremacists it's the jewss, which is odd since many Jews are white, its illogical racism.

White supremacists follow a pure race policy, Jews above all others (for some reason) appear to be considered less than human, rather than of another race.

This is certainly true in how they seem to place white Jews above black Christians in order of hate.

So. I imagine white supremacists view a union of Jews and non Jews, as a union of apes and humans, as in humans and subhumans,which obviously disgusts them.

White supremacists, like the anti facist/racist brigade are obsessed and therefore see their bane everywhere, and so everyone and everything is racist/jew/infidel

Pick your group, and pick your poison

They think there are millions of secret Jews,stealthfully polluting the pure human gene pool and fear being replaced by half human hybrids

The only conspiracy more idiotic is the trump / Russian collusion theory Laughing

Make no mistake, white supremacists have Jews as public enemy number one, for now, but their ideology is self defeating since it can only exist under threat from "them"

Accordingly once Jews are wiped out, then number 2 on the lost will occupy the pole position and so on and so on, working their way down the list until the list have to be updated with new imagined threats

Are you really so incapable of understanding hatred???

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Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe" Empty Re: Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe"

Post by Original Quill on Wed May 01, 2019 11:37 pm

Russe wrote:It's the same "us vs them" rethoric used by every group with and agenda and a scapegoat.

For Democrats the "them" was the basket of deplorable voting for the other guy.

A "scapegoat" is someone within the same caucus, who will take the blame.  "Today the word is used to refer to one who is wrongly blamed for something..."  Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

Democrats called the followers of Trump the "deplorables". It's just an appropriate description.  That wasn't setting someone up to take the blame; that was blatantly calling the other side a term that aptly describes them.  You always target the other side in a political battle.  The oppo is always fair game.

And, indeed, the followers of Trump are deplorable.  They are made up of intellectual cripples, who follow an infirm leader, and applaud putting babies in cages.
They act in deplorable ways.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Original Quill on Wed May 01, 2019 11:44 pm

Russe wrote:For white supremacists it's the jewss, which is odd since many Jews are white, its illogical racism.

White supremacists follow a pure race policy, Jews above all others (for some reason) appear to be considered less than human, rather than of another race.

This is certainly true in how they seem to place white Jews above black Christians in order of hate.

So. I imagine white supremacists view a union of Jews and non Jews, as a union of apes and humans, as in humans and subhumans,which obviously disgusts them.

To respond would be gratuitous.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by smelly-bandit on Thu May 02, 2019 8:02 am

Original Quill wrote:
Russe wrote:For white supremacists it's the jewss, which is odd since many Jews are white, its illogical racism.

White supremacists follow a pure race policy, Jews above all others (for some reason) appear to be considered less than human, rather than of another race.

This is certainly true in how they seem to place white Jews above black Christians in order of hate.

So. I imagine white supremacists view a union of Jews and non Jews, as a union of apes and humans, as in humans and subhumans,which obviously disgusts them.

To respond would be gratuitous.

That's an odd thing to do, quote something I post and then declare you are not going to respond

Just don't respond

_________________
“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

- Frantz Fanon
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Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe" Empty Re: Youngest survivor of California synagogue shooting: "I don't feel safe"

Post by Original Quill on Thu May 02, 2019 3:53 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

To respond would be gratuitous.

That's an odd thing to do, quote something I post and then declare you are not going to respond

Just don't respond

Well, the non-response to your post is a response. It leaves your post standing for all to see.

Never have I seen such ugly thoughts as you have. The best response I could have is to allow people to see how loathsome you are.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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