Top Eight Alternative Fuels

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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:02 am

Gasoline and diesel are still fossil fuel kings of the fuel supply chain but alternative fuels are now swinging the scale more toward green.

1. Ethanol

An alcohol-based alternative fuel made by fermenting and distilling crops such as corn, barley or wheat. It can be blended with gasoline to increase octane levels and improve emissions quality. Positive: Materials are renewable. Negative: Ethanol subsidies have a negative impact on food prices and availability.

2. Natural Gas

Natural gas is an alternative fuel that burns clean and is already widely available to people in many countries through utilities that provide natural gas to homes and businesses. Positive: Cars and trucks with specially designed engines produce fewer harmful emissions than gasoline or diesel. Negative: Natural gas production creates methane, a greenhouse gas that is 21 times worse for global warming than CO2.

3. Electricity

Electricity can be used as a transportation alternative fuel for battery-powered electric and fuel-cell vehicles. Battery powered electric vehicles store power in batteries that are recharged by plugging the vehicle into a standard electrical source. Fuel-cell vehicles run on electricity that is produced through an electrochemical reaction that occurs when hydrogen and oxygen are combined. Positive: Electricity for transportation is highly efficient, and we already have an extensive electricity network. In the case of fuel cells, they produce electricity without combustion or pollution. Negative: Much electricity is generated today from coal or natural gas, leaving a bad carbon footprint. (Nonetheless, electric vehicles are still the greenest option around when it comes to cars.)

4. Hydrogen

Hydrogen can be mixed with natural gas to create an alternative fuel for vehicles that use certain types of internal combustion engines. Hydrogen is also used in fuel-cell vehicles that run on electricity produced by the petrochemical reaction that occurs when hydrogen and oxygen are combined in the fuel “stack.” Positive: No bad emissions. Negative: Cost. And also the lack of fueling infrastructure and difficulty of putting it in place.

5. Propane

Propane—also called liquefied petroleum gas or LPG—is a byproduct of natural gas processing and crude oil refining. Already widely used as a fuel for cooking and heating, propane is also a popular alternative fuel for vehicles. Positive: Propane produces fewer emissions than gasoline, and there is also a highly developed infrastructure for propane transport, storage and distribution. Negative: Natural gas production creates methane, a greenhouse gas that is 21 times worse for global warming than CO2.

6. Biodiesel

Biodiesel is an alternative fuel based on vegetable oils or animal fats, even those recycled after restaurants have used them for cooking. Vehicle engines can be converted to burn biodiesel in its pure form, and biodiesel can also be blended with petroleum diesel and used in unmodified engines. Positive: Biodiesel is safe, biodegradable, reduces air pollutants associated with vehicle emissions, such as particulate matter, carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons. Negative: Limited production and distribution infrastructure.

7. Methanol

Methanol, also known as wood alcohol, can be used as an alternative fuel in flexible fuel vehicles that are designed to run on M85, a blend of 85 percent methanol and 15 percent gasoline, but automakers are no longer manufacturing methanol-powered vehicles. Positive: Methanol could become an important alternative fuel in the future as a source of the hydrogen needed to power fuel-cell vehicles. Negative: Automakers are no longer manufacturing methanol-powered vehicles.

8. P-Series Fuels

P-Series fuels are a blend of ethanol, natural gas liquids and methyltetrahydrofuran (MeTHF), a co-solvent derived from biomass. P-Series fuels are clear, high-octane alternative fuels that can be used in flexible fuel vehicles. Positive: P-Series fuels can be used alone or mixed with gasoline in any ratio by simply adding it to the tank. Negative: Manufacturers are not making flexible fuel vehicles.


https://cleantechnica.com/2012/03/08/top-eight-alternative-fuels/

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:05 am

Seems like a lot of the problems with implementing these fuels is that manufacturers won't make vehicles that run on them!

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Post by 'Wolfie on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:40 am

Top Eight Alternative Fuels 3356277174

My car (a Ford Territory SUV..) had a duel-fuel LPG conversion done to it (#5)...

Biodiesel-blends (#6) are available at a lot of service stations around Oz, especially those oriented to heavy trucking  --  a big transport industry and long distances makes this option more viable than some other places..

Hydrogen fuels and hydrogen-cell battery systems (#4) look like being the big growth area for transport needs down here, over the next couple of decades.


Last edited by WhoseYourWolfie on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:45 am; edited 3 times in total

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Post by eddie on Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:41 am

I think this is why I am going to vote for the Green Party again.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:16 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Top Eight Alternative Fuels 3356277174

My car (a Ford Territory SUV..) had a duel-fuel LPG conversion done to it (#5)...

Biodiesel-blends (#6) are available at a lot of service stations around Oz, especially those oriented to heavy trucking  --  a big transport industry and long distances makes this option more viable than some other places..

Hydrogen fuels and hydrogen-cell battery systems (#4) look like being the big growth area for transport needs down here, over the next couple of decades.

I've always thought large-scale biodiesel adoption would be the easiest way to quickly curb worldwide carbon emissions, since the technology is already out there and there's obviously plenty of raw material to make the fuel.

And I really don't know why oil and gas companies don't diversify into alternative fuels. It's getting harder and harder to extract petroleum and natural gas from the ground, after all.
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Post by Andy on Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:59 am

Burn 1 million copies each of The Sun, The Mail, The Express and The Spectator.
Probably not great for the atmosphere, but would eradicate a whole lot of hatred.

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Post by nicko on Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:02 pm

Could we add the Mirror to that list Andy Laughing
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Post by Andy on Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:02 pm

That would douse any flames with it's calming influence.

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Post by nicko on Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:53 pm

Good reply, wrong, but still good !
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Post by Maddog on Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:26 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Top Eight Alternative Fuels 3356277174

My car (a Ford Territory SUV..) had a duel-fuel LPG conversion done to it (#5)...

Biodiesel-blends (#6) are available at a lot of service stations around Oz, especially those oriented to heavy trucking  --  a big transport industry and long distances makes this option more viable than some other places..

Hydrogen fuels and hydrogen-cell battery systems (#4) look like being the big growth area for transport needs down here, over the next couple of decades.

I've always thought large-scale biodiesel adoption would be the easiest way to quickly curb worldwide carbon emissions, since the technology is already out there and there's obviously plenty of raw material to make the fuel.

And I really don't know why oil and gas companies don't diversify into alternative fuels. It's getting harder and harder to extract petroleum and natural gas from the ground, after all.

Because we would need millions more acres for production of fuel instead of food.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:52 am

Maddog wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

I've always thought large-scale biodiesel adoption would be the easiest way to quickly curb worldwide carbon emissions, since the technology is already out there and there's obviously plenty of raw material to make the fuel.

And I really don't know why oil and gas companies don't diversify into alternative fuels. It's getting harder and harder to extract petroleum and natural gas from the ground, after all.

Because we would need millions more acres for production of fuel instead of food.

Arrow

@ Maddog :

Nonsense...

Just consider the ever-increasing problem of millions of tonnes of putrescible wastes that the USA has to deal with every year..

Also, refer to Didge's thread re: composting dead people that he put up today.

Plenty of organic materials there to be broken down into the requisite oils, esters and alcohols to feed a biodiesel refinery..


All frippery aside, there is also a large amount of used cannola, sunflower and safflower oils passing through restaraunts and food factories on a daily basis..


You seem to be confusing biodiesel production with ethanol production (which is largely dependent on crops such as sorghum, millet, sugarcane and sugarbeets, to produce the sugars that feed ethanol refineries..).

Methanol production is another area that can also use a lot of waste materials --  'putrescible' garbage, wood waste (woodchips, mulch, trimmings..), even some grass, paper and cardboard could be added into the brew..

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Post by Andy on Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:00 am

If they composted Didge, Tommy and SB, that would heat a city for a month, owing to the amount of hot air that emanates from them

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Post by Maddog on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:27 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Because we would need millions more acres for production of fuel instead of food.

Arrow

@ Maddog :

Nonsense...

Just consider the ever-increasing problem of millions of tonnes of putrescible wastes that the USA has to deal with every year..

Also, refer to Didge's thread re: composting dead people that he put up today.

Plenty of organic materials there to be broken down into the requisite oils, esters and alcohols to feed a biodiesel refinery..


All frippery aside, there is also a large amount of used cannola, sunflower and safflower oils passing through restaraunts and food factories on a daily basis..


You seem to be confusing biodiesel production with ethanol production (which is largely dependent on crops such as sorghum, millet, sugarcane and sugarbeets, to produce the sugars that feed ethanol refineries..).

Methanol production is another area that can also use a lot of waste materials --  'putrescible' garbage, wood waste (woodchips, mulch, trimmings..), even some grass, paper and cardboard could be added into the brew..

We already have 10% ethanol in our gas and the corn is being subsidized for that. It's better to grow things for people to eat. And we have plenty of land. Imagine if the Europeans tried to convert crops into fuel. Fossil fuels are not food products. Let's use them to run out cars and eat crops until electricity becomes the most efficient source.

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Post by eddie on Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:42 pm

Andy wrote:If they composted Didge, Tommy and SB, that would heat a city for a month, owing to the amount of hot air that emanates from them

Andy, do you have to jump into threads just to harbour on about how much you dislike other posters?

What do you have to say about the thread topic?

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Post by 'Wolfie on Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:46 am

Maddog wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Arrow

@ Maddog :

Nonsense...

Just consider the ever-increasing problem of millions of tonnes of putrescible wastes that the USA has to deal with every year..

Also, refer to Didge's thread re: composting dead people that he put up today.

Plenty of organic materials there to be broken down into the requisite oils, esters and alcohols to feed a biodiesel refinery..


All frippery aside, there is also a large amount of used cannola, sunflower and safflower oils passing through restaraunts and food factories on a daily basis..


You seem to be confusing biodiesel production with ethanol production (which is largely dependent on crops such as sorghum, millet, sugarcane and sugarbeets, to produce the sugars that feed ethanol refineries..).

Methanol production is another area that can also use a lot of waste materials --  'putrescible' garbage, wood waste (woodchips, mulch, trimmings..), even some grass, paper and cardboard could be added into the brew..

We already have 10% ethanol in our gas and the corn is being subsidized for that.  It's better to grow things for people to eat.  And we have plenty of land.  Imagine if the Europeans tried to convert crops into fuel. Fossil fuels are not food products. Let's use them to run out cars and eat crops until electricity becomes the most efficient source.  

Idea

Electricity is already the most "efficient" means of transport in urban and suburban areas --  all it needs now is to get the price-point for the vehicles themselves down to a point where it becomes "cost effective" and more affordable for average people...

These days trains, warships, big tractors, big cruise liners, mining machinery and dump trucks, are all running with electric motors --   but in most cases you still need diesel engines or gas turbines to fuel the generators to supply the electricity to power those motors..

Getting outside the cities --  out where half the world's population still lives and works  --  the big downsides with electric powered vehicles is
(a) power storage, and the range that vehicle can travel;  
(b) the real world load carrying capacity and towing abilities for smaller "human scale" all-electric utility vehicles and light trucks still isn't up to sctatch;   and
(c)  the costs are still prohibitive for most of the world..

Hence the need for better battery storeage systems, for extended range --  and alternative fuels like biodiesel, hydrogen, methanol, lpg and methane to fuel hybrid vehicles for actual work situations.

With the world's recognised petroleum sources running down over the next few years, eventually the price of petrol and diesel will hit that 'tipping point', where --  like it or not --  the average American and European simply won't be able to afford a tank of petrol..

Unless they already have the 'alternative' fuel sources up-and-running before then...

It's all very well having all those spineless and gormless corporate shills and lackeys running around defending their oil and mining company bosses, screaming their mindless mantras  about "commie plots", "go live in a cave" and "baseload !, baseload !"  --   but if it all goes to crap because the world hasn't moved on,  then those same mindless twats will be the ones whining that the guvm'nt 'should' have "done something" earlier..

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