Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:55 am

First topic message reminder :

In the wake of Netanyahu's move to incorporate the Golan Heights into the sovereignty of Israel, one must question whether Israel is a Jewish state, or a democracy?

What are they going to do with the many Palestinians who live there? I cannot imagine that they are going to permit the pollution of their Jewishness by allowing Muslims to vote.

Bears watching.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:33 am

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

whats he done wrong??

Lie to the American public; conspiracy to commit espionage; traitor; rape; child abuse; conspiracy to violate the CFAA; conspiracy violate the emoluments clause; conspiracy to violate the Logan Act; lie to federal authorities; obstruction of justice; exchange favors for financial advantage; money laundering; RICO violations.


As you know, I'm not a Trump fan and I'm happy as always to concede to you in the case of the US political system, but what I cannot understand is why, with the Democrats in a majority position in the House of Representatives, have all the claims of serious wrongoing not been translated into actual impeachment proceedings and why, from what I've read, Trump is widely believed to be on course for a second term in the White House?
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Post by Original Quill on Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:21 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Lie to the American public; conspiracy to commit espionage; traitor; rape; child abuse; conspiracy to violate the CFAA; conspiracy violate the emoluments clause; conspiracy to violate the Logan Act; lie to federal authorities; obstruction of justice; exchange favors for financial advantage; money laundering; RICO violations.

As you know, I'm not a Trump fan and I'm happy as always to concede to you in the case of the US political system, but what I cannot understand is why, with the Democrats in a majority position in the House of Representatives, have all the claims of serious wrongdoing not been translated into actual impeachment proceedings and why, from what I've read, Trump is widely believed to be on course for a second term in the White House?

I agree with you, Fred.  Frankly, Democrats are snowflakes ... they move far too cautiously.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's rationale is that to try for impeachment and fail, would leave the public with a distaste for the Democrats, with the consequence that they would lose favor in the crucial up-coming election.  She wants to go the path of elections to remove Trump.  What do we tell the criminals we do prosecute?  That you're not privileged enough to get away with it?

My response is that didn’t happen with Bill Clinton, whose only sin was having an affair.  Republicans never fell out of favor. Here now we have a real traitor, and there’s no justice.

But more importantly, that leaves us with no response or restitution for the assault on the institutions of the US.  The institutions of the US are a perishable commodity. That's what neither side seems to realize.  Obama let Dick Cheney off scot-free; does anyone believe that didn’t reveal that the US is not a nation of laws?  That the rich and privileged get away?

If we let Trump go on a simple election loss, it means that we value a mere win more than we do the institutions of the nation.  We have already revealed that we are not a democracy: two of the three presidents instated in this century did not receive the popular vote and we fritter away votes with either voter restrictions or gerrymandering.

Now, Pelosi wants to throw the institution of “a nation of laws” under the bus.  Pelosi wants to win, but at what cost?  She is quite content to hand us the label of ‘Banana Republic’, as long as she gets a win.

Institutions are perishable.  A win is flotsam and jetsam in the ocean compared to the sell-out of our democracy and laws.  What do we tell our children: we sold out on our nation of laws, and our principles of democracy, but we got the win?

They would think us hypocrites and cheap sell-outs.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Maddog on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:16 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Lie to the American public; conspiracy to commit espionage; traitor; rape; child abuse; conspiracy to violate the CFAA; conspiracy violate the emoluments clause; conspiracy to violate the Logan Act; lie to federal authorities; obstruction of justice; exchange favors for financial advantage; money laundering; RICO violations.


As you know, I'm not a Trump fan and I'm happy as always to concede to you in the case of the US political system, but what I cannot understand is why, with the Democrats in a majority position in the House of Representatives, have all the claims of serious wrongoing not been translated into actual impeachment proceedings and why, from what I've read, Trump is widely believed to be on course for a second term in the White House?

Because there's no criminal wrong doing and it would just make them look petty. It's better to continue to try to wound him, than waste time on impeachment hearings that won't lead to removal with the republicans in control of the Senate. Impeachment is done in the house (like what happened to Clinton). Removal is done in the Senate and with the Mueller report being released there isn't enough there, there to get a handful of republicans to turn on Trump.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:39 pm

Sure. Just make America more lawless, less democratic and just a shitty place.

What do you tell your children?

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by smelly-bandit on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:39 pm

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Lie to the American public; conspiracy to commit espionage; traitor; rape; child abuse; conspiracy to violate the CFAA; conspiracy violate the emoluments clause; conspiracy to violate the Logan Act; lie to federal authorities; obstruction of justice; exchange favors for financial advantage; money laundering; RICO violations.


As you know, I'm not a Trump fan and I'm happy as always to concede to you in the case of the US political system, but what I cannot understand is why, with the Democrats in a majority position in the House of Representatives, have all the claims of serious wrongoing not been translated into actual impeachment proceedings and why, from what I've read, Trump is widely believed to be on course for a second term in the White House?

love him or loathe him

but for god sakes do so for the right reasons

bottom line

there has been no wrong doing

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Post by smelly-bandit on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:41 pm

Original Quill wrote:Sure.  Just make America more lawless, less democratic and just a shitty place.

What do you tell your children?

you could ask them to tell where else they would prefer to live..........................................

..............................and then realise that you have failed as a parent???


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“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

- Frantz Fanon
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Post by Original Quill on Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:49 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Sure.  Just make America more lawless, less democratic and just a shitty place.

What do you tell your children?

you could ask them to tell where else they would prefer to live..........................................

..............................and then realise that you have failed as a parent???

That's a pretty weak excuse for patriotism or support of a nation. "Where else ya gonna go??" is a low standard.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by smelly-bandit on Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

you could ask them to tell where else they would prefer to live..........................................

..............................and then realise that you have failed as a parent???

That's a pretty weak excuse for patriotism or support of a nation.  "Where else ya gonna go??" is a low standard.

not really

I assume you have children based on your question??

if so then you have clearly failed as parent.

a parents duty is to impart your values and standards on to your child in the hopes that they will become better people then you are, you want the very best for them.

i assume thats what you as a parent want???

my impression of you is that you despise america and all it stands for.

so if you ask your children where else they would rather live, and they answer : texas.

you fucked it!!!

if they dont hate america like you do, then you are a shitty dad.

just saying


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“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

- Frantz Fanon
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Post by Original Quill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:31 am

Russe wrote:a parents duty is to impart your values and standards on to your child in the hopes that they will become better people then you are, you want the very best for them.

i assume thats what you as a parent want???

my impression of you is that you despise america and all it stands for.

so if you ask your children where else they would rather live, and they answer : texas.

you fucked it!!!

if they dont hate america like you do, then you are a shitty dad.

just saying

Russe, this is not about me. You are running scared, and that's why you take that course.

You're a carbon copy of didge. You parry with a few good points, which can be disposed of. Then you begin the narcissism in yourself, and feel yourself losing; your inability to answer frustrates you. Finally, it's all out war with your adversary. See above.

Didge, if your listening, soz but you could learn from this, too.

Russe, you are full of weak arguments, and care more about scoring clever barbs and jingoisms. But, I can tell you as a lawyer, when you can't make good arguments people start shuffling their feet and looking the other way. Know what that is? That's embarrassment.

Attacking me isn't going to make your point. Look up in Site News and Announcements, at a thread titled Answer the post, not the poster. It's all in there. All you reveal is that you are scared to death to debate.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Original Quill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:44 am

Russe wrote:my impression of you is that you despise america and all it stands for.

Right now I am indeed ashamed of my country. In this century we have proved that it is not a democracy, and that it is not governed by rule of law. Add to that the fundamental racism on which part of America is based, and it paints a tawdry picture: a lot of talk, no content.

Here, again, we are faced with feckless, snowflake Democrats, and Republicans whose sole motivations are the self.

Too bad...it was a nice experiment while it lasted.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by smelly-bandit on Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:22 am

[quote="Original Quill"][quote="Russe"]a parents duty is to impart your values and standards on to your child in the hopes that they will become better people then you are, you want the very best for them.

i assume thats what you as a parent want???

my impression of you is that you despise america and all it stands for.

so if you ask your children where else they would rather live, and they answer : texas.

you fucked it!!!

if they dont hate america like you do, then you are a shitty dad.

just saying[/quote]

Russe, this is not about me.  You are running scared, and that's why you take that course.

You're a carbon copy of didge.  You parry with a few good points, which can be disposed of.  Then you begin the narcissism in yourself, and feel yourself losing; your inability to answer frustrates you.  Finally, it's all out war with your adversary.  See above.

Didge, if your listening, soz but you could learn from this, too.

Russe, you are full of weak arguments, and care more about scoring clever barbs and jingoisms.  But, I can tell you as a lawyer, when you can't make good arguments people start shuffling their feet and looking the other way.  Know what that is?  That's embarrassment.

Attacking me isn't going to make your point.  Look up in Site News and Announcements, at a thread titled [i]Answer the post, not the poster[/i].  It's all in there.  All you reveal is that you are scared to death to debate.
[/quote]

I'm not scared of debate Quill, unfortunately debate is a two way conversation.

And you can't have a debate with someone who doesn't engage,like yourself.

For example, I showed you footage of a CNN reporter saying that the Russian collusion thing was fabricated and there was nothing there.

Your response was to dismiss and ignore it in favour of pushing ahead with "trumps a baby eating child rapist criminal kingpin and we gonna get him" nonsense

That's not debate, that's slavish devotion to your doctrine. You won't debate because debate involves considering other perspectives and opinions, and as far as you're concerned there are no other perspectives or opinions besides your own.

You don't debate you proselytize.

I can't debate with someone who is only interested in listening to the sound of his own voice which is why I don't bother with you.

If you want to interpret that as me "losing" go for it. I don't care, trumps your president and will win a second term, being a trump supporter, that puts me on the "winning" side.


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“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

- Frantz Fanon
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Post by smelly-bandit on Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:23 am

Original Quill wrote:
Russe wrote:my impression of you is that you despise america and all it stands for.

Right now I am indeed ashamed of my country.  In this century we have proved that it is not a democracy, and that it is not governed by rule of law.  Add to that the fundamental racism on which part of America is based, and it paints a tawdry picture: a lot of talk, no content.

Here, again, we are faced with feckless, snowflake Democrats, and Republicans whose sole motivations are the self.

Too bad...it was a nice experiment while it lasted.

So racist you guys elected a black president

Twice.

See??? This is why I don't bother debating you, you live in a fantasy world

_________________
“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

- Frantz Fanon
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Post by Original Quill on Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:26 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Right now I am indeed ashamed of my country.  In this century we have proved that it is not a democracy, and that it is not governed by rule of law.  Add to that the fundamental racism on which part of America is based, and it paints a tawdry picture: a lot of talk, no content.

Here, again, we are faced with feckless, snowflake Democrats, and Republicans whose sole motivations are the self.

Too bad...it was a nice experiment while it lasted.

So racist you guys elected a black president

Twice.

See??? This is why I don't bother debating you, you live in a fantasy world

That's fine. See ya after your psych evaluation.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

If you can't indict, and you don't impeach, you've got villainy.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by smelly-bandit on Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:29 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

So racist you guys elected a black president

Twice.

See??? This is why I don't bother debating you, you live in a fantasy world

That's fine.  See ya after your psych evaluation.

You're the one who is going to need therapy come 2020

_________________
“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

- Frantz Fanon
--------------------------------------

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