Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:55 am

First topic message reminder :

In the wake of Netanyahu's move to incorporate the Golan Heights into the sovereignty of Israel, one must question whether Israel is a Jewish state, or a democracy?

What are they going to do with the many Palestinians who live there? I cannot imagine that they are going to permit the pollution of their Jewishness by allowing Muslims to vote.

Bears watching.

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Post by eddie on Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:46 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:Appearing on a thread and telling someone they’re talking shit and not telling them why you think that is....well, it’s a waste of time isn’t it?

Waste of time?  What do you think Russe is doing?  Confusing services with socialism?  Cherry-picking failed economies?  Generalizing from specifics?  Either he's ignorant or he's deliberately trying to mislead.

Sometimes telling him he's talking shit is just drawing the obvious conclusion.  Would you rather have people accuse him of deliberately lying?  I think that Ben and Wolf are being kind to him.

Personally, I think he's a Russian GRU agent, tapping a keyboard at the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) in St. Petersburg.

My point still stands. Doesn’t matter what kerfuffle of words you utter.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:32 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Waste of time?  What do you think Russe is doing?  Confusing services with socialism?  Cherry-picking failed economies?  Generalizing from specifics?  Either he's ignorant or he's deliberately trying to mislead.

Sometimes telling him he's talking shit is just drawing the obvious conclusion.  Would you rather have people accuse him of deliberately lying?  I think that Ben and Wolf are being kind to him.

Personally, I think he's a Russian GRU agent, tapping a keyboard at the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) in St. Petersburg.

My point still stands. Doesn’t matter what kerfuffle of words you utter.  

Kerfuffle?  Do you think I'm "not telling him" why I think his ideas are trash?  I've practically written a book about Russe's errors?  I felt like I was back teaching a class in socialism at university.

Russe's misunderstandings are nothing but a gaping hole, and I've picked them apart one by one.

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Post by eddie on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:43 pm

Yes you did. I’m talking in general..when people just jump into a thread and say “You’re talking shit!”
Like that’s any kind of debate.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:50 pm

eddie wrote:Yes you did. I’m talking in general..when people just jump into a thread and say “You’re talking shit!”
Like that’s any kind of debate.

But it's true.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:00 pm

eddie wrote:Appearing on a thread and telling someone they’re talking shit and not telling them why you think that is....well, it’s a waste of time isn’t it?

Cool

I did tell him why he is wrong, eddie...

Exactly the same as Ben did..

Smelly's claims are pure bullshit.

He is simply making up lies, probably based on other people's bullshit, likely copied chunks of misinformation from a site like Breitbart or their ilk, and wants to be seen to be knowledgable on a subject he knows nothing about..

Anybody who studied Commerce, Economics and/or Business Studies at school -- let alone university -- and knows anything about political systems will recognise Smelly's lies for what they are...

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Post by Andy on Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:36 pm

eddie wrote:Yes you did. I’m talking in general..when people just jump into a thread and say “You’re talking shit!”
Like that’s any kind of debate.

Then why don't you pick up on when Tommy or SB yawn or say waffle?

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:43 pm

Andy wrote:I think SB keeps getting spelling mistakes and keybounce because his keyboard is clogged up with concealed semen from him masturbating over pictures of Hitler and Trump.

errrrrr no

its the aftermath of drone strkes on innocent civillians


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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:Appearing on a thread and telling someone they’re talking shit and not telling them why you think that is....well, it’s a waste of time isn’t it?

Waste of time?  What do you think Russe is doing?  Confusing services with socialism?  Cherry-picking failed economies?  Generalizing from specifics?  Either he's ignorant or he's deliberately trying to mislead.

Sometimes telling him he's talking shit is just drawing the obvious conclusion.  Would you rather have people accuse him of deliberately lying?  I think that Ben and Wolf are being kind to him.

Personally, I think he's a Russian GRU agent, tapping a keyboard at the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) in St. Petersburg.

the fact that you genuinely think im a russian agent just shows how far off the deep end you have gone, this whole no russia collusion thing has broken you

i find it funny that you are getting high on your supply, and if i was a russian agent

YOU would be dead by now

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Post by phildidge on Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:52 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Waste of time?  What do you think Russe is doing?  Confusing services with socialism?  Cherry-picking failed economies?  Generalizing from specifics?  Either he's ignorant or he's deliberately trying to mislead.

Sometimes telling him he's talking shit is just drawing the obvious conclusion.  Would you rather have people accuse him of deliberately lying?  I think that Ben and Wolf are being kind to him.

Personally, I think he's a Russian GRU agent, tapping a keyboard at the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) in St. Petersburg.

the fact that you genuinely think im a russian agent just shows how far off the deep end you have gone, this whole no russia collusion thing has broken you

i find it funny that you are getting high on your supply, and if i was a russian agent

YOU would be dead by now


I think the British governement should investigate you

Frankly, you are a Boer, who have a history of hate for the English

I have no doubt you are a double agent

I have no doubt you would sell your soul to fellow dogmatic Christians like Putin, is one of

I find it funny, how you think people are not bought by your bullshit

You are a rogue

You could not give a fuck about the Uk and have often praised Putin

You are nothing more than a traitor and you insult the very Royal Marine corp, with your loyalty to Putin's Russia

You are nothing more than a puppet, for Russians smelly

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

no

what im suggesting is that the smithy forges the rilfes and then sells it to military who then issues it to the soldier who then uses it for a specific purpose

remember

"The essence of socialism is that the social unit owns everything and produces everything pertaining to a specific purpose."

what this would mean is that the smithy is employed by the military and is supplied with materials and resources mined by engineers who work for the military on land owned by the military to make weapons for use by the military

that is not the case

the military may own the resources/kit/equipment it has, in the same way i own my car AFTER its final payment but it only owns those things once payment has been made.

i didnt make my car and the military doesnt make its own kit and equipment, it buys it from a private company.

thats not socialism.

i take it you have never heard of KBR and how they cheated the military and the US tax payer???

or do you really think a sixpack of coke cost $100???

do you really think it costs $10,000 to run a convoy of empty trucks up the line and back??

you got a lot to learn sonny  

Avoidance: you're failing to face facts.  You are confused about the difference between a service and a tangible product.  The military provides a service, not a thing.  That's why they call it the 'service'.  It provides authority, peace and security.

And the military owns everything from inception.  Who designs the weapons?  The needs come from the field, to the drawing board, to the production.  All on a CPFF basis.

The military is the embodiment of the social unit.  As I said above, it's a human tendency to keep essential services close to the breast: If you want to make sure something is done, do it yourself!  Socialism is the people, doing it themselves.

You’re too caught up in the capitalist system.  The capitalists are remote from essential services precisely because it is a system, removed from the breast of the people.  Like police, and fire departments, the people want to assure it gets done..so they keep it to themselves.  The capitalists guess and speculate.  When Cathedral Notre Dame caught fire, did they pour Cornflakes on it?  Did they try to sell the Bishops a new Volkswagen?  Capitalism is remote and chancy, depends on guessing, and well, unreliable...you need certainty for essential services: if you want to get something done, do it yourself!  Only socialism is from the self, of the self, and for the self...and is assured by the self.

if your argumnet for socialism relies on where the item of value is a service or a physical product then its not a good argument.

the military/police/fire service are professional institutions that get paid to do a job, they are not an irregular militia, fire watch of vigilante group formed from the people to do the job because no one else will

stop paying these services and see how long you have them at your disposal, if a private company wanted to privatise these services and were paying them more, then your so called socialist units would become capitalist units over night.

because money talks and people have bills to pay

this huippy dreamland of socialism would last a few days before someone shits on the floor and refuses to clean it up, socialism always fails because it doesnt understand human nature

people have ambition to achive more to be better off , they are selfish greedy and envious of those better off, socialism doesnt cater for that, so why would you clean some fuckers shit off the floor if its not in your job discription and you wont be getting paid more for it??

that happens in the military by the way, you get paid extra to burn the shit on ops.

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Post by phildidge on Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:57 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Andy wrote:I think SB keeps getting spelling mistakes and keybounce because his keyboard is clogged up with concealed semen from him masturbating over pictures of Hitler and Trump.

errrrrr no

its the aftermath of drone strkes on innocent civillians



Is this based on your spy code words sent to and your loyalty to Russia?

Frankly, I think any member you served with in the Royal Marines, should publicly, disowns you

That would be very fitting

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Post by phildidge on Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:59 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Avoidance: you're failing to face facts.  You are confused about the difference between a service and a tangible product.  The military provides a service, not a thing.  That's why they call it the 'service'.  It provides authority, peace and security.

And the military owns everything from inception.  Who designs the weapons?  The needs come from the field, to the drawing board, to the production.  All on a CPFF basis.

The military is the embodiment of the social unit.  As I said above, it's a human tendency to keep essential services close to the breast: If you want to make sure something is done, do it yourself!  Socialism is the people, doing it themselves.

You’re too caught up in the capitalist system.  The capitalists are remote from essential services precisely because it is a system, removed from the breast of the people.  Like police, and fire departments, the people want to assure it gets done..so they keep it to themselves.  The capitalists guess and speculate.  When Cathedral Notre Dame caught fire, did they pour Cornflakes on it?  Did they try to sell the Bishops a new Volkswagen?  Capitalism is remote and chancy, depends on guessing, and well, unreliable...you need certainty for essential services: if you want to get something done, do it yourself!  Only socialism is from the self, of the self, and for the self...and is assured by the self.

if your argumnet for socialism relies on where the item of value is a service or a physical product then its not a good argument.

the military/police/fire service are professional institutions that get paid to do a job, they are not an irregular militia, fire watch of vigilante group formed from the people to do the job because no one else will



Well there is not something you see everyday

A grunt totally embarress the right, with his ignorance on what is wrong with socialism

Seeriously I have made this argument many times. Showing what is wrong and only smelly could end up embarressing himself further with out right stupidity on this

Its as ignorant as Quill claiming Israel is not a democracy

You two ignorant fuckers, are what is wrong with the world today

You live off each others hate

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Post by phildidge on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:18 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Waste of time?  What do you think Russe is doing?  Confusing services with socialism?  Cherry-picking failed economies?  Generalizing from specifics?  Either he's ignorant or he's deliberately trying to mislead.

Sometimes telling him he's talking shit is just drawing the obvious conclusion.  Would you rather have people accuse him of deliberately lying?  I think that Ben and Wolf are being kind to him.

Personally, I think he's a Russian GRU agent, tapping a keyboard at the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) in St. Petersburg.

the fact that you genuinely think im a russian agent just shows how far off the deep end you have gone, this whole no russia collusion thing has broken you

i find it funny that you are getting high on your supply, and if i was a russian agent

YOU would be dead by now

Frankly, I think you are no better than Shamima Begum

You have sided with someone who is an enemy of this country

That makes you a a traitor

The reality is, your loyalty is not to the Uk, but South Africa and Putin

Frankly, that means, we should revoke your citizenship

You dont care about the Uk, you only serve to better the aspects of Russia and white south Africa

You are nothing more than a Totaltarian white supremacist

Yet people listen to you, not knowing that you suck up to Putin. Not knowing, you have never cared about the UK. As why would you, being a Boer?

I understand the resentment as a Boer, but lets face it, you are a quisling

As Far as I am concerned, you are no better than ISIS and Corbyn.

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Post by phildidge on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:31 pm

I mean we know that Putin's Russia, has tired to murder people on British soil and in some cases they have succeded.

Anyone that sides with Putin, is a traitor to this country and lets look at the people who do?

Those on the Far right and left

Onloy someone who supports Putin, would not condemn him and would make excuses as smelly does. Just as Corbyn does.

I could care less about the Presidential elections in the US. What matters is here

What I care about, is how smelly continually refusess to condemn Putin, for the murders in the UK he sanctioned?

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 pm

Russe wrote:the fact that you genuinely think im a russian agent just shows how far off the deep end you have gone, this whole no russia collusion thing has broken you

i find it funny that you are getting high on your supply, and if i was a russian agent

YOU would be dead by now

Russe, today it's done by public opinion, not by bullets.  And you a GRU agent!  Haven't you figured out yet, to expect the unexpected?  Can't you see the template?

And the fact that you think I'm off the deep end is testament to how behind you are. There is no deep end, nor shallow end.  Nothing is normal; nothing routine about these days.  Trump won despite losing the popular vote by 3-million votes.  He undoes the past 50-years of diplomacy.  He encourages racism and white supremacy.  He separates families at the border.  He openly brags about grabbing pussy.  He pays off prostitutes and sex workers.  He rapes little children.

He puts children in cages.  He is hostile to our alliances.  He kisses ass to  Kim Jong Un and Putin, and any other dictator.  He sanctions international murders if done by his business partners.  He goes through appointees like candy.  He has no loyalty and can get along with no one.

And you are surprised when I expect the unexpected?  Where have you been?


Last edited by Original Quill on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Russe wrote:the fact that you genuinely think im a russian agent just shows how far off the deep end you have gone, this whole no russia collusion thing has broken you

i find it funny that you are getting high on your supply, and if i was a russian agent

YOU would be dead by now

He puts children in cages.  He is hostile to our alliances.  He kisses ass to  Kim Jong Un and Putin, and any other dictator.  He sanctions international murders if done by his business partners.  He goes through appointees like candy.  He has no loyalty and can get along with no one.

And you are surprised when I expect the unexpected?  Where have you been?

So did Obama

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:58 pm

phildidge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

He puts children in cages.  He is hostile to our alliances.  He kisses ass to  Kim Jong Un and Putin, and any other dictator.  He sanctions international murders if done by his business partners.  He goes through appointees like candy.  He has no loyalty and can get along with no one.

And you are surprised when I expect the unexpected?  Where have you been?

So did Obama

Not at all.  Obama only removed children from those who clearly committed a crime, such as drugs, robbery or worse.  In those cases, we would be putting the children's lives in danger to leave them with their adults...who are incarcerated as well.  Obama wouldn't, couldn't incarcerate children. He left them with Child Protective Services.

There's no equivalency whatsoever.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by phildidge on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:

So did Obama

Not at all.  Obama only removed children from those who clearly committed a crime, such as drugs, robbery or worse.  In those cases, we would be putting the children's lives in danger to leave them with their adults...who are incarcerated as well.  Obama wouldn't, couldn't incarcerate children.

There's no equivalency whatsoever.

So he removed them from their parents then?

And also caged them

He did remove children and cage them

It happenned under his watch

Same as trump is doing

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Post by phildidge on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:07 pm

This happened under Obama Quill

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_16124077176862

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_934183398385

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_809246232474

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_641573469485

https://qz.com/1291470/photos-immigrant-children-detained-at-the-placement-center-in-2014/

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:12 pm

phildidge wrote:This happened under Obama Quill

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_16124077176862

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_934183398385

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_809246232474

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_641573469485

https://qz.com/1291470/photos-immigrant-children-detained-at-the-placement-center-in-2014/

Haha...nice try.  Those are photos from Trump's era.  In Obama's time, the children were humanely put in the hands of Child Protective Services...and only if the adult had committed a felony.  Big difference.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:This happened under Obama Quill

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_16124077176862

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_934183398385

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_809246232474

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Ap_641573469485

https://qz.com/1291470/photos-immigrant-children-detained-at-the-placement-center-in-2014/

Haha...nice try.  Those are photos from Trump's era.  In Obama's time, the children were humanely put in the hands of Child Protective Services.  Big difference.


Wrong

From the Obama era

You are simple a gullible idiot and this proves this

I suggest you look this up properly and you will see i am right


Night

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:47 pm

Sorry, but you are wrong. That is the facility outside Brownsville, Texas that Trump set up.

That photo has been used in conjunction with the fake news that Obama had them too, but facts are facts.

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Post by phildidge on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:36 am

Original Quill wrote:Sorry, but you are wrong.  That is the facility outside Brownsville, Texas that Trump set up.

That photo has been used in conjunction with the fake news that Obama had them too, but facts are facts.


Actually its you that is wrong

A black president that incarerated white and black children

Obama got away with what Trump has not

Both were wrong and you make excuses for one of them

That is telling

In your eyes, people cannot do not wrong based on skin colour

You sound like an apologist for the genecoide of the indegeneous indians

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:10 am

Original Quill wrote:
Russe wrote:the fact that you genuinely think im a russian agent just shows how far off the deep end you have gone, this whole no russia collusion thing has broken you

i find it funny that you are getting high on your supply, and if i was a russian agent

YOU would be dead by now

Russe, today it's done by public opinion, not by bullets.  And you a GRU agent!  Haven't you figured out yet, to expect the unexpected?  Can't you see the template?

And the fact that you think I'm off the deep end is testament to how behind you are.  There is no deep end, nor shallow end.  Nothing is normal; nothing routine about these days.  Trump won despite losing the popular vote by 3-million votes.  He undoes the past 50-years of diplomacy.  He encourages racism and white supremacy.  He separates families at the border.  He openly brags about grabbing pussy.  He pays off prostitutes and sex workers.  He rapes little children.

He puts children in cages.  He is hostile to our alliances.  He kisses ass to  Kim Jong Un and Putin, and any other dictator.  He sanctions international murders if done by his business partners.  He goes through appointees like candy.  He has no loyalty and can get along with no one.

And you are surprised when I expect the unexpected?  Where have you been?

youre so far down the rabbit hole there is no point even trying to reason with you, i think you prefer the delusioal fantasy you have created for yourself, i imagine its easier to bear than the reality


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Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:26 am

Read it and weep, sweetpea:

Vox wrote:The Mueller report’s collusion section is much worse than you think

The contacts with Russians documented in the report amount to a devastating indictment of Trump’s approach to politics.

By Zack Beauchamp
Apr 18, 2019, 2:50pm EDT

pecial counsel Robert Mueller’s report on Donald Trump and Russia establishes a damning series of facts about the Trump campaign’s connections to the Kremlin.

We learned that two Trump campaign officials, campaign manager Paul Manafort and Manafort’s deputy Rick Gates, were regularly providing polling information to a Russian national whom Gates believed to be a “spy.”

We learned that, after Trump publicly called on Russia to find Hillary Clinton’s emails, he privately ordered future National Security Adviser Michael Flynn to find them. Flynn reached out to a man named Peter Smith who (apparently falsely) told a number of people that he was in contact with Russian agents.

We learned that Trump foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos attempted to arrange meetings between Trump and Putin, and that Trump personally approved Papadopoulos’s work on this front.

The report is very clear that Mueller’s investigation did not establish that the Trump campaign criminally conspired on illegal Russian election interference, or that it coordinated with Russia through either an active or tacit agreement.

But the report, combined with other publicly known facts — that Donald Trump Jr. arranged a meeting with the express purpose of obtaining Russian “dirt” on Clinton, and that Papadopoulos was offered similar dirt from a Russian agent, among others — paints a damning picture of the campaign. It was both actively seeking to cultivate a relationship with the Russian government and willing to work with it to acquire damaging information about its political opponents. That willingness included explicitly sharing information with or soliciting information from Russian operatives.

As the report takes pains to point out, “collusion” has no legal definition and is not a federal crime. So while the report did not establish conspiracy or coordination, it does not make a determination on “collusion” — and in fact, it strongly suggests that there was at least an attempt to collude by Trump’s campaign and agents of the Russian government.

The fact that it did not rise to the level of criminal activity does not mean it was not a serious breach of trust and a damning indictment of the president’s commitment to the health of the American legal and political system. The section of the report focusing on Russian interference in the election is not an exoneration of Trump’s innocence. It’s a devastating portrayal of his approach to politics.

The strong evidence of (something like) collusion
Although Attorney General William Barr said that there was “no collusion” in his press conference before the report’s release, Mueller is actually quite explicit that he did not address the question of “collusion.” This is because, to his mind, the term is not precise enough, nor does it fall within the ambit of what was essentially a criminal investigation.

“Collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law,” Mueller writes. “For those reasons, the Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law.”

So when Mueller concludes that he “did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,” he is not saying that there is no evidence of “collusion” at all, in any sense. What he is saying is that there is insufficient evidence to prove that the Trump administration was directly involved in Russian crimes like stealing Clinton’s emails.

But did the Trump campaign actively work with the Russian government to improve its electoral chances? If that’s the standard, then the report provides plenty of evidence to suggest the answer is yes.

First, Russia repeatedly reached out to the Trump campaign to establish a connection to the Kremlin. “The Russian contacts consisted of business connections, offers of assistance to the Campaign, invitations for candidate Trump and Putin to meet in person, invitations for Campaign officials and representatives of the Russian government to meet, and policy positions seeking improved U.S.-Russian relations,” Mueller writes.

Second, the Trump campaign was receptive — sometimes going beyond what was on offer from the Kremlin. Some of the examples of this are egregious.

Take Manafort’s meetings with Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian political consultant with a history of connections to the GRU intelligence agency. The FBI believed had links to the Kremlin, a view shared by Manafort’s right-hand man Gates. “Gates suspected that Kilimnik was a ‘spy,’ a view that he shared with Manafort,” Mueller writes.

Yet despite Gates’s suspicions, Manafort repeatedly met with Kilimnik, worked with him to develop a pro-Russian Ukraine policy that Trump could implement if elected, and regularly shared polling data with him:

On August 2, 2016, Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort met in New York City with his long-time business associate Konstantin Kilimnik, who the FBI assesses to have ties to Russian intelligence. Kilimnik requested the meeting to deliver in person a peace plan for Ukraine that Manafort acknowledged to the Special Counsel’s Office was a “backdoor” way for Russia to control part of eastern Ukraine; both men believed the plan would require candidate Trump’s assent to succeed (were he to be elected President).

They also discussed the status of the Trump Campaign and Manafort’s strategy for winning Democratic votes in Midwestern states. Months before that meeting, Manafort had caused internal polling data to be shared with Kilimnik, and the sharing continued for some period of time after their August meeting.

It’s possible Paul Manafort was acting without the candidate’s knowledge, and you could argue that this shouldn’t really reflect on Trump. But it’s clear from the report that the president openly encouraged his campaign to reach out to Russians and work with them.

During a late March meeting of Trump’s foreign policy advisers, Papadopoulos told Trump about his attempts to set up a meeting with Putin. This, per Mueller, went over quite well.

“Papadopoulos and Campaign advisor J.D. Gordon — who told investigators in an interview that he had a ‘crystal clear’ recollection of the meeting — have stated that Trump was interested in and receptive to the idea of a meeting with Putin,” per the report. Papadopoulos worked diligently afterwards to try to set up such a meeting, but was foiled largely by scheduling issues.

At times, Trump was clear about his interest in Russian electoral involvement. This passage about email hacking, for example, in which Trump calls on Russia to get Clinton’s emails, then tells his campaign to acquire them.

After candidate Trump stated on July 27, 2016, that he hoped Russia would ‘find the 30,000 emails that are missing,’ Trump asked individuals affiliated with his Campaign to find the deleted Clinton emails. Michael Flynn — who would later serve as National Security Advisor in the Trump Administration — recalled that Trump made this request repeatedly, and Flynn subsequently contacted multiple people in an effort to obtain the emails.

Russia had, in fact, already stolen the text of many Clinton campaign private emails by then — so Trump couldn’t be involved in that particular criminal conspiracy. But the fact that Trump signaled that he was open to working with the Russians is nonetheless telling.

What “no collusion” gets wrong
The report is littered with evidence Trump and his staff were open to Russian interference in the election. Mueller explicitly concludes that “the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian effort.”

And there may very well be more evidence in the sections that are redacted.

For example, Gates told Mueller about a conversation with Trump during a late summer 2016 car ride to LaGuardia in which “candidate Trump told Gates that more releases of damaging information would be coming” from WikiLeaks.

Was Trump speculating? Or did he know that for sure, because of some kind of coordination with WikiLeaks (who was working with Russian agents to disseminate hacked Clinton material)? The section is heavily redacted, making it difficult to assess what’s actually going on.

I want to be clear: I am not disputing Mueller’s conclusions on whether a crime was committed. Criminal conspiracy has a very particular legal definition, and Mueller is persuasive on why none of the activities detailed in the report constituted illegal “coordination” in a way that would run afoul of the statute.

“We understood coordination to require an agreement — tacit or express — between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government on election interference. That requires more than the two parties taking actions that were informed by or responsive to the other’s actions or interests,” Mueller writes. “We applied the term coordination in that sense when stating in the report that the investigation did not establish that the Trump Campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

What the report finds is not clear-cut evidence of a quid-pro-quo. Instead, what we see is a series of bungled and abortive attempts to create ties between the two sides, a situation in which the Trump team and Russia worked to reach out to each other (and vice versa) without ever developing a formal arrangement to coordinate.

Does that rise to the level of “collusion?” It’s a slippery term. But if “collusion” refers to a willingness to cooperate with Russian interference in the 2016 US election and actively taking steps to abet it, it seems to me that the Mueller report does in fact establish that it took place.

But even if you find that definition too loose, the report’s message is not that there was nothing to worry about on the Trump-Russia front in 2016. Instead, it confirms that there were multiple shady connections between Trump and Russia, and that the president’s “no collusion” line is quite misleading. And at worst, the way it’s been presented suggests that the president and his attorney general are still actively trying to deceive the American people about what happened in 2016.

The only reason why collusion isn't charged is a president cannot be indicted. But with all this evidence against him, the Mueller Report is a message to Congress to impeach.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:33 am

The report is very clear that Mueller’s investigation did not establish that the Trump campaign criminally conspired on illegal Russian election interference, or that it coordinated with Russia through either an active or tacit agreement.

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:49 am

phildidge wrote:The report is very clear that Mueller’s investigation did not establish that the Trump campaign criminally conspired on illegal Russian election interference, or that it coordinated with Russia through either an active or tacit agreement.

You haven't read what I posted, have you? It proves that Trump colluded, but right now he can't be charged. We'' get 'im when he walks out the door.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:52 am

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:The report is very clear that Mueller’s investigation did not establish that the Trump campaign criminally conspired on illegal Russian election interference, or that it coordinated with Russia through either an active or tacit agreement.

You haven't read what I posted, have you?  It proves that Trump colluded, but right now he can't be charged.  We'' get 'im when he walks out the door.


How have you proved he colluded?

I cannot see any evidence that he did

I think you are obsessed over Trump and should concentrate on arguing in favour of a decent Democratic candidate

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:41 am

Original Quill wrote:
phildidge wrote:The report is very clear that Mueller’s investigation did not establish that the Trump campaign criminally conspired on illegal Russian election interference, or that it coordinated with Russia through either an active or tacit agreement.

You haven't read what I posted, have you?  It proves that Trump colluded, but right now he can't be charged.  We'' get 'im when he walks out the door.

What you posted isn't the report it's some docuhe bag from vox giving his two cents worth.

You whine about the report being redacted and then post this.

*shakes head in disbelief *

Let me tell you here and now, Trump will be getting reelected in 2020.

He won't see the inside of a court or even one of those special rooms where surrender deals are made because there is nothing to answer for


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Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:04 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You haven't read what I posted, have you?  It proves that Trump colluded, but right now he can't be charged.  We'' get 'im when he walks out the door.

What you posted isn't the report it's some docuhe bag from vox giving his two cents worth.

And what you are following is what a political stooge says, instead of Mueller's actual report.  William Barr is one of the typical Washington whores, who are lackeys of Trump.  Barr begged Trump for the job, and Trump hired him, demanding allegiance or he would fire him...as he did to AG Sessions.  Barr has no integrity, as shown by the mis-characterization he tried to spin back in March.

Russe, you are one of the ignorant masses that Republicans lie to try to mislead.  When John Stuart Mill said: 'I never said all conservatives are stupid; I said all stupid persons are conservative,' he was talking about you.  Politicians put out lies because they want the masses to be fooled...to misunderstand.  Usually, I tell them that people are not that stupid, but in your case I have to admit the exception.

Wait until Muller testifies before Congress, and you will hear the truth itself.  Right now, you're listening to the 'switch' part of a 'bait and switch' caper.  It's designed to fool the masses.  Admit it...have you even read the Mueller Report??  I thought not.  You are just a blind follower.

The Vox report is a more truthful summary, designed to aid the weak of mind.  The Mueller Report is 448-pages long, and people like you are not intelligent enough to follow the legalese.

Here is what you have been reading:

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Trump557

 Read the commentary, and stop being a dupe.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

What you posted isn't the report it's some docuhe bag from vox giving his two cents worth.

And what you are following is what a political stooge says, instead of Mueller's actual report.  William Barr is one of the typical Washington whores, who are lackeys of Trump.  Barr begged Trump for the job, and Trump hired him, demanding allegiance or he would fire him...as he did to AG Sessions.  Barr has no integrity, as shown by the mis-characterization he tried to spin back in March.

Russe, you are one of the ignorant masses that Republicans lie to try to mislead.  When John Stuart Mill said: 'I never said all conservatives are stupid; I said all stupid persons are conservative,' he was talking about you.  Politicians put out lies because they want the masses to be fooled...to misunderstand.  Usually, I tell them that people are not that stupid, but in your case I have to admit the exception.

Wait until Muller testifies before Congress, and you will hear the truth itself.  Right now, you're listening to the 'switch' part of a 'bait and switch' caper.  It's designed to fool the masses.  Admit it...have you even read the Mueller Report??  I thought not.  You are just a blind follower.

The Vox report is a more truthful summary, designed to aid the weak of mind.  The Mueller Report is 448-pages long, and people like you are not intelligent enough to follow the legalese.

Here is what you have been reading:

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 Trump557

 Read the commentary, and stop being a dupe.

The report is nonsense

I've told you repeatedly that the collusion thing was a story made up by CNN for rating, they even got caught on camera admitting it. They called it a nothing burger.

So meuller and the Democrats were lured in by fake news and were so desperate and so deep in trump derangement syndrome that they ran with it, only to find a nothing burger at the end of it.

I did try to warn you Quill

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:23 pm

Russe wrote:The report is nonsense

I've told you repeatedly that the collusion thing was a story made up by CNN for rating, they even got caught on camera admitting it. They called it a nothing burger.

Admitting it?  Are you speaking about Donald Trump, Jr.?  He is the only one who used the term "nothing burger."

You Russians are not very good knowing who's who in America, but you are persistent.

Russe wrote:So meuller and the Democrats...

Mueller is a Republican.

Russe wrote:...were lured in by fake news and were so desperate and so deep in trump derangement syndrome that they ran with it, only to find a nothing burger at the end of it.

The Trumps are an organized crime family.  Wait until Congress starts taking them out.  Subpoenas have already gone out to get the Mueller Report, and Donald Trump's taxes.

Russe wrote:I did try to warn you Quill
 

No you didn't.  You tried to  spread lies.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Russe wrote:The report is nonsense

I've told you repeatedly that the collusion thing was a story made up by CNN for rating, they even got caught on camera admitting it. They called it a nothing burger.

Admitting it?  Are you speaking about Donald Trump, Jr.?  He is the only one who used the term "nothing burger."

You Russians are not very good knowing who's who in America, but you are persistent.

Russe wrote:So meuller and the Democrats...

Mueller is a Republican.

Russe wrote:...were lured in by fake news and were so desperate and so deep in trump derangement syndrome that they ran with it, only to find a nothing burger at the end of it.

The Trumps are an organized crime family.  Wait until Congress starts taking them out.  Subpoenas have already gone out to get the Mueller Report, and Donald Trump's taxes.

Russe wrote:I did try to warn you Quill
 

No you didn't.  You tried to  spread lies.



the big nothing burger from CNN itsef

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:54 pm

Russe wrote:the big nothing burger from CNN itsef

He was being factitious. Trump Jr. made the reference, and afterward some people poked fun at him because it was such an inapt, ridiculous adjective.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:23 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Russe wrote:the big nothing burger from CNN itsef

He was being factitious.  Trump Jr. made the reference, and afterward some people poked fun at him because it was such an inapt, ridiculous adjective.

you cant polish a turd quill, but goddamn youre giving it a good go.

this is a nothing burger and youve exhausted your entertainment value,

trump will be getting elected in 2020, he wont be going to jail

california will go bankrupt before it breaks away

the wall will get built

hillary will go to jail

you will continue to bitch and moan and i will continue to troll you

get used to it

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:40 pm

Russe wrote:you cant polish a turd quill, but goddamn youre giving it a good go.

Is the swan song of a loser?  When you read the whole report you will see what I mean.

Mueller specifically disavows that he is clearing Trump. He is even saying that were Trump not president he would be charged.

Mueller says if Trump were an ordinary person he (Mueller) would have brought an indictment.  But the OLC standard prevents him from indicting Trump.

Mueller does go on to say that he is preserving the evidence in his report so that when Trump becomes indictable, charges may be brought.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Russe wrote:you cant polish a turd quill, but goddamn youre giving it a good go.

Is the swan song of a loser?  When you read the whole report you will see what I mean.

Mueller specifically disavows that he is clearing Trump.  He is even saying that were Trump not president he would be charged.

Mueller says if Trump were an ordinary person he (Mueller) would have brought an indictment.  But the OLC standard prevents him from indicting Trump.

Mueller does go on to say that he is preserving the evidence in his report so that when Trump becomes indictable, charges may be brought.

whats with you and didge, declariing yourselves victors every five minutes???

i keep warning you quill

trump is going to serve his term and get reelected

and when he finishes up he is going to walk free

lets hear about how you won when its all over, because according to you trump should have been in prison by now and he isnt, so the whole premature celebration thing is getting old

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Post by phildidge on Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:25 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Is the swan song of a loser?  When you read the whole report you will see what I mean.

Mueller specifically disavows that he is clearing Trump.  He is even saying that were Trump not president he would be charged.

Mueller says if Trump were an ordinary person he (Mueller) would have brought an indictment.  But the OLC standard prevents him from indicting Trump.

Mueller does go on to say that he is preserving the evidence in his report so that when Trump becomes indictable, charges may be brought.

whats with you and didge, declariing yourselves victors every five minutes???

i keep warning you quill

trump is going to serve his term and get reelected

and when he finishes up he is going to walk free

lets hear about how you won when its all over, because according to you trump should have been in prison by now and he isnt, so the whole premature celebration thing is getting old

Victory?

You constantly read my threads and then play off them

You are simple my Padawan

I do not set out to win, as what is there to win?

I set out to make my points with rational reason,. based and backed up with evidence

Trump is a complete idiot, and the Democrats have no answer to him and that is a fact

They sadly have championed people to take him on in the next election based on oppression points

I agree, the democratic vote will be divided and Trump will end up winning again

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:35 am

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Is the swan song of a loser?  When you read the whole report you will see what I mean.

Mueller specifically disavows that he is clearing Trump.  He is even saying that were Trump not president he would be charged.

Mueller says if Trump were an ordinary person he (Mueller) would have brought an indictment.  But the OLC standard prevents him from indicting Trump.

Mueller does go on to say that he is preserving the evidence in his report so that when Trump becomes indictable, charges may be brought.

whats with you and didge, declariing yourselves victors every five minutes???

i keep warning you quill

trump is going to serve his term and get reelected

and when he finishes up he is going to walk free

lets hear about how you won when its all over, because according to you trump should have been in prison by now and he isnt, so the whole premature celebration thing is getting old

It's a direct way to cut to the chase.  Notice, I always give you reasons.

When you have no answers or response, the logical conclusion is that you have failed in your point.  The rest is history.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:23 am

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

whats with you and didge, declariing yourselves victors every five minutes???

i keep warning you quill

trump is going to serve his term and get reelected

and when he finishes up he is going to walk free

lets hear about how you won when its all over, because according to you trump should have been in prison by now and he isnt, so the whole premature celebration thing is getting old

It's a direct way to cut to the chase.  Notice, I always give you reasons.

When you have no answers or response, the logical conclusion is that you have failed in your point.  The rest is history.

There isn't anything to respond to.

How many times do we have to go over this??

CNN fabricated the Russian collusion story to generate ratings, the Democrats, desperate to get trump out picked up the story and applied uncle Adolfs big lie told often" theory in the hopes it would stick they undid themselves when they ordered an official investigation and made it bigger than Ben hur. .

CNN fuck you guys, so the reason I don't address anything you say is for the simple fact that CNN, having fabricated this story where caught on camera saying its fake.

The entire thing is fake news and I don't need to respond to fake news

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:41 am

Waffle.  You know nothing about CNN and it's feud with the Trump crime family.

What Trump fears most of all, is about to happen.  Put aside all of the investigations going on by the feds (12 outstanding more indictments under seal in SDNY and VA) and New York State.

The Ways and Means Committee has demanded, and is about to go to court over obtaining Trump's tax records from the IRS.  Then we'll learn about all the money laundering, prostitution rings, drug smuggling, etc., and how Trump has sold out America for his Trump Tower Moscow.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:10 am

Original Quill wrote:Waffle.  You know nothing about CNN and it's feud with the Trump crime family.

What Trump fears most of all, is about to happen.  Put aside all of the investigations going on by the feds (12 outstanding more indictments under seal in SDNY and VA) and New York State.

The Ways and Means Committee has demanded, and is about to go to court over obtaining Trump's tax records from the IRS.  Then we'll learn about all the money laundering, prostitution rings, drug smuggling, etc., and how Trump has sold out America for his Trump Tower Moscow.

the trump derangemnet syndrome is strong with this one

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:54 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Waffle.  You know nothing about CNN and it's feud with the Trump crime family.

What Trump fears most of all, is about to happen.  Put aside all of the investigations going on by the feds (12 outstanding more indictments under seal in SDNY and VA) and New York State.

The Ways and Means Committee has demanded, and is about to go to court over obtaining Trump's tax records from the IRS.  Then we'll learn about all the money laundering, prostitution rings, drug smuggling, etc., and how Trump has sold out America for his Trump Tower Moscow.

the trump derangemnet syndrome is strong with this one

You're feeling insecure, Russe?  Confidence shaken?  Now we are three days into the Mueller Report revelation, and although 15% of it is redacted, we're beginning to realize what it says.  It says that Trump is a liar, cheat and a scoundrel, and if we let him go on it is a template for all future presidents to enlist the aid of foreign, hostile powers, to elect the US president for us, and do it with impunity.

Every evil or unlawful act of everyone who ever took any office, is recorded down somewhere and what is important is the response.  When President Obama declined to prosecute Vice President Cheney upon leaving office, Obama was telling all office holders that what he did was acceptable.  If that person is not told NO in definitive terms, and prevented from doing his evil act, then that will be the PRECEDENT.  It's a tacit admission by the whole of us, that this is OK.  

If such recalcitrant office holder gets away with it, then forever afterwards it becomes a tool in the toolkit of all office holders, forever after.  Indeed, why not?  Trump has provided us with multiple opportunities of wrongdoing, and the ball in now in the court of Congress to say NO.  If he is not told NO, then his style of politics receives to seal of approval and we can expect to see it again, many times over.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

the trump derangemnet syndrome is strong with this one

You're feeling insecure, Russe?  Confidence shaken?  Now we are three days into the Mueller Report revelation, and although 15% of it is redacted, we're beginning to realize what it says.  It says that Trump is a liar, cheat and a scoundrel, and if we let him go on it is a template for all future presidents to enlist the aid of foreign, hostile powers, to elect the US president for us, and do it with impunity.

Every evil or unlawful act of everyone who ever took any office, is recorded down somewhere and what is important is the response.  When President Obama declined to prosecute Vice President Cheney upon leaving office, Obama was telling all office holders that what he did was acceptable.  If that person is not told NO in definitive terms, and prevented from doing his evil act, then that will be the PRECEDENT.  It's a tacit admission by the whole of us, that this is OK.  

If such recalcitrant office holder gets away with it, then forever afterwards it becomes a tool in the toolkit of all office holders, forever after.  Indeed, why not?  Trump has provided us with multiple opportunities of wrongdoing, and the ball in now in the court of Congress to say NO.  If he is not told NO, then his style of politics receives to seal of approval and we can expect to see it again, many times over.

That makes sense

However when trump hasn't actually done anything wrong then prosecuting him like he has sends the same message and sets the same precedent - it's ok to fabricate stories about your enemies and abuse and manipulate the legal framework to destroy them

Democracy suffers either way, but somehow I'm not convinced you care too much about democracy, you're like our remainers

They claim to love democracy except when it delivers a result they don't like, then it's to be discarded

Do so at your own peril

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Post by Original Quill on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:43 pm

Obama notwithstanding, he will be prosecuted. He's 72-yeas old. I do hope he lives through the trial so he can be told of all his wrongs.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by 'Wolfie on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:24 am

smelly-bandit wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You're feeling insecure, Russe?  Confidence shaken?  Now we are three days into the Mueller Report revelation, and although 15% of it is redacted, we're beginning to realize what it says.  It says that Trump is a liar, cheat and a scoundrel, and if we let him go on it is a template for all future presidents to enlist the aid of foreign, hostile powers, to elect the US president for us, and do it with impunity.

Every evil or unlawful act of everyone who ever took any office, is recorded down somewhere and what is important is the response.  When President Obama declined to prosecute Vice President Cheney upon leaving office, Obama was telling all office holders that what he did was acceptable.  If that person is not told NO in definitive terms, and prevented from doing his evil act, then that will be the PRECEDENT.  It's a tacit admission by the whole of us, that this is OK.  

If such recalcitrant office holder gets away with it, then forever afterwards it becomes a tool in the toolkit of all office holders, forever after.  Indeed, why not?  Trump has provided us with multiple opportunities of wrongdoing, and the ball in now in the court of Congress to say NO.  If he is not told NO, then his style of politics receives to seal of approval and we can expect to see it again, many times over.

That makes sense

However when trump hasn't actually done anything wrong then prosecuting him like he has sends the same message and sets the same precedent - it's ok to fabricate stories about your enemies and abuse and manipulate the legal framework to destroy them

Democracy suffers either way, but somehow I'm not convinced you care too much about democracy, you're like our remainers

They claim to love democracy except when it delivers a result they don't like, then it's to be discarded

Do so at your own peril
Laughing

".. trump hasn't actually done anything wrong..."

You lying idiot fool,  komrad smelly'..

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 3489511464

_________________
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Our life is frittered away by details. Simplify, simplify.
The mass of men lead lives of quite desperation.
Henry David Thoreau
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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:Obama notwithstanding, he will be prosecuted.  He's 72-yeas old.  I do hope he lives through the trial so he can be told of all his wrongs.

he wont be but i never get tired of you pinky, your trump derangemnt syndrome rants tickle me every time

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:45 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

That makes sense

However when trump hasn't actually done anything wrong then prosecuting him like he has sends the same message and sets the same precedent - it's ok to fabricate stories about your enemies and abuse and manipulate the legal framework to destroy them

Democracy suffers either way, but somehow I'm not convinced you care too much about democracy, you're like our remainers

They claim to love democracy except when it delivers a result they don't like, then it's to be discarded

Do so at your own peril
Laughing

".. trump hasn't actually done anything wrong..."

You lying idiot fool,  komrad smelly'..

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 3489511464

whats he done wrong??

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:41 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Laughing

".. trump hasn't actually done anything wrong..."

You lying idiot fool,  komrad smelly'..

Israel: a Jewish state or a democracy - Page 3 3489511464

whats he done wrong??

Lie to the American public; conspiracy to commit espionage; traitor; rape; child abuse; conspiracy to violate the CFAA; conspiracy violate the emoluments clause; conspiracy to violate the Logan Act; lie to federal authorities; obstruction of justice; exchange favors for financial advantage; money laundering; RICO violations.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Guest on Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:42 am

Original Quill wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

whats he done wrong??

Lie to the American public; conspiracy to commit espionage; traitor; rape; child abuse; conspiracy to violate the CFAA; conspiracy violate the emoluments clause; conspiracy to violate the Logan Act; lie to federal authorities; obstruction of justice; exchange favors for financial advantage; money laundering; RICO violations.

Like I said he did nothing wrong

See that's where you lunatics fall flat, you shriek and screech and when asked to substantiate, you start to stutter and splutter

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