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Post by Ben Reilly on Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:11 pm

A science teacher who joked about a pupil performing a sex act with a Smurf has avoided a classroom ban.

Adam Evans also made "beeping noises" as he held a pedometer near a boy to suggest he was a paedophile.

The physics teacher was sacked for gross misconduct from Fazakerley High School in Liverpool in April last year.

While the Teaching Regulation Agency (TRA) hearing found Mr Evans guilty of unacceptable professional conduct, he was spared a ban from the profession.

The hearing in Coventry was told that Mr Evans made the Smurf joke after seeing a pupil's fingers stained with blue ink.

Mr Evans, who is believed to be in his late 20s, also admitted making explicit remarks about a pupil eating a chocolate bar and discussed sexual contact between a 15-year-old boy and a 14-year-old girl.

When a pupil mispronounced "pedometer" as "pee-dometer", Mr Evans reacted by holding up the device and making a bleeping noise.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-47629709

I'm torn about this one; the Smurf comment was probably pretty funny, but it sounds as though he may have crossed the line at times, too.

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Post by Syl on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:08 am

It's not really appropriate for a teacher to be making sexually explicit jokes to kids half his age.

Banning him from teaching altogether would be harsh though, hopefully being sacked will be all the  wake up call he needs.

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Post by Jules on Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:20 am

What surprises me most is that 'ink' features in the story. Was this at a museum? Were there fountain pens too? What a Face

No need to sack him. He needs to be told quite firmly to rein in his nonsense.
And given one last chance.


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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:43 am

FFS...... Rolling Eyes

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Post by Jules on Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:29 pm

Well the ages of 14 & 15 were mentioned. Adolescents, not tiny tots.
Science & Maths teachers are very hard to find, the recruitment crisis is dire in some cases.
Rather than rushing to throw errant teachers on the scrapheap we should find alternatives.

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Post by Syl on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:07 pm

There has to be some standards kept re appropriate behaviour, especially by responsible adults when interacting with kids.

I read today that the female copper who swore and talked inappropriately to her colleagues has now also been sacked.

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Post by Jules on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:31 pm

Syl wrote:There has to be some standards kept re appropriate behaviour, especially by responsible adults when interacting with kids.

I read today that the female copper who swore and talked inappropriately to her colleagues has now also been sacked.
And I feel that those standards can be enforced with a final warning in this particular case.
Other posters might feel a harsher course of action is necessary here.
That's fine. A variety of differing opinions is ok. 
I made no excuses for his behaviour. But I did take a few practical things into consideration re' how he should be disciplined.

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Post by Jules on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:38 pm

For police officers the bar is higher.
The police are a very powerful profession, their evidence and even opinion can send people to prison. 
Their character needs to be of a calibre that inspires absolute trust.

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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:59 pm

Jules wrote:Well the ages of 14 & 15 were mentioned. Adolescents, not tiny tots.
Science & Maths teachers are very hard to find, the recruitment crisis is dire in some cases.
Rather than rushing to throw errant teachers on the scrapheap we should find alternatives.


ANNND....here we go

the lefty side of things want to give the VOTE to 15 YO.....so WHY are they bothered if they are treated as adults?? surely old enough and mature enough to vote = old enough to be treated as adults for ALL things including
being eligible for call up and cannon fodder
criminal responsibility as adults
getting married/relationships in the same was as 18 yo as at present (thatchell will love you guys)
driving a vehicle and the responsibility that carries
being able to get a licence and own a gun
pay their own taxes when working
leave school and work

The VOTE is the SOLE perogative of those in their majority (i.e "of age"), since it is/SHOULD?MUST only be given to those of sufficient maturity to use it properly (or looking at that conversely....having the vote implies such maturity.....) this is not something around which ifs and buts and excuses can be deployed its black or white either some one IS mature enough to vote AND that means mature enough for all the rest OR they are not...
so first question on this is

are you so far left that you are a corbynista and would give 15 YO the vote?

if the answer is yes....then why do you have a problem with this teacher treating the pupils as adults and making adult jokes with them?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:31 pm

Well, LF, on the other hand, we decide young people are ready for different things at different ages, right?

Kids can start handling racy and violent scenes on TV starting around age 12 or 13; they can be trusted to handle themselves on their own at a certain age; etc. etc. etc.

Saying that a 15-year-old can handle casting a vote is a bit different from saying that a 15-year-old can handle lewd comments from an authority figure, no?

(Not that I'd ever support giving 15-year-olds the vote, that's ridiculous.)

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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:40 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:Well, LF, on the other hand, we decide young people are ready for different things at different ages, right?

Kids can start handling racy and violent scenes on TV starting around age 12 or 13; they can be trusted to handle themselves on their own at a certain age; etc. etc. etc.

Saying that a 15-year-old can handle casting a vote is a bit different from saying that a 15-year-old can handle lewd comments from an authority figure, no?

(Not that I'd ever support giving 15-year-olds the vote, that's ridiculous.)

which means that in fact you agree with me....... Rolling Eyes

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Post by Jules on Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:50 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:
Jules wrote:Well the ages of 14 & 15 were mentioned. Adolescents, not tiny tots.
Science & Maths teachers are very hard to find, the recruitment crisis is dire in some cases.
Rather than rushing to throw errant teachers on the scrapheap we should find alternatives.


ANNND....here we go

the lefty side of things want to give the VOTE to 15 YO.....so WHY are they bothered if they are treated as adults?? surely old enough and mature enough  to vote = old enough to be treated as adults for ALL things including
being eligible for call up and cannon fodder
criminal responsibility as adults
getting married/relationships in the same was as 18 yo as at present (thatchell will love you guys)
driving a vehicle and the responsibility that carries
being able to get a licence and own a gun
pay their own taxes when working
leave school and work

The VOTE is the SOLE perogative of those in their majority (i.e "of age"), since it is/SHOULD?MUST only be given to those of sufficient maturity to use it properly (or looking at that conversely....having the vote implies such maturity.....) this is not something around which ifs and buts and excuses can be deployed its black or white either some one IS mature enough to vote AND that means mature enough for all the rest OR they are not...
so first question on this is

are you so far left that you are a corbynista and would give 15 YO the vote?

if the answer is yes....then why do you have a problem with this teacher treating the pupils as adults and making adult jokes with them?

This is the strangest response I've ever had to a post.  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
Have you quoted the wrong post, LF?


I have never expressed an opinion on what age to vote, nor gun ownership, nor driving cars Teacher avoids being banned from profession despite joking that a student had sex with a Smurf 2190311264


To make matters ten times worse, the only opinion I DID express, you have interpreted it the exact opposite way to how I intended.
If anything I was saying the kids are big enough to be treated as adults - it's in the first line of my post.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:52 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:Well, LF, on the other hand, we decide young people are ready for different things at different ages, right?

Kids can start handling racy and violent scenes on TV starting around age 12 or 13; they can be trusted to handle themselves on their own at a certain age; etc. etc. etc.

Saying that a 15-year-old can handle casting a vote is a bit different from saying that a 15-year-old can handle lewd comments from an authority figure, no?

(Not that I'd ever support giving 15-year-olds the vote, that's ridiculous.)

which means that in fact you agree with me....... Rolling Eyes

I agree people that young shouldn't get the vote, but not because they're not ready for sexual comments from their teachers.

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Post by Jules on Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:57 pm

I can only assume you quoted the wrong post, LF.
The level of aggression & rantiness is quite bizzare too. Not your usual style.


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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:04 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Victorismyhero wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:Well, LF, on the other hand, we decide young people are ready for different things at different ages, right?

Kids can start handling racy and violent scenes on TV starting around age 12 or 13; they can be trusted to handle themselves on their own at a certain age; etc. etc. etc.

Saying that a 15-year-old can handle casting a vote is a bit different from saying that a 15-year-old can handle lewd comments from an authority figure, no?

(Not that I'd ever support giving 15-year-olds the vote, that's ridiculous.)

which means that in fact you agree with me....... Rolling Eyes

I agree people that young shouldn't get the vote, but not because they're not ready for sexual comments from their teachers.

exactly and thats because????

they are not mature enough in their ability to think and rationalise and all the other things that are needed to deal with lewed jokes from authority figures......yes?

precicely the same qualities that are needed to be able to vote.........no?






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Post by Jules on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:10 pm

Gawd I only came to this thread to say they should've been more LENIENT with this teacher, cos his pupils are old enough to handle a few risquee jokes. Teacher avoids being banned from profession despite joking that a student had sex with a Smurf 3489511464 Teacher avoids being banned from profession despite joking that a student had sex with a Smurf 3489511464

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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:14 pm

Jules wrote:I can only assume you quoted the wrong post, LF.
The level of aggression & rantiness is quite bizzare too. Not your usual style.


nope jules I quoted the correct post

not aimed at you personally...just a shotgun blast towards the left corner.....

I do like to poke in that corner now and again to see what runs out.....

glad to see that you actually see the point I was making ...

votes belong to adults
if you are held to be old enough to vote (as Corbyn &CO claim) then you are old enough for the rest of the shite of adulthood too
conversely
if you are NOT old enough to take the rest of the adult crap then you aint old enough to handle the responsibility of voting Teacher avoids being banned from profession despite joking that a student had sex with a Smurf 2190311264

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Post by eddie on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:36 pm

Jules wrote:Gawd I only came to this thread to say they should've been more LENIENT with this teacher,  cos his pupils are old enough to handle a few risquee jokes.  Teacher avoids being banned from profession despite joking that a student had sex with a Smurf 3489511464  Teacher avoids being banned from profession despite joking that a student had sex with a Smurf 3489511464

We don’t call him a grumpy old bastard for nothing. Teacher avoids being banned from profession despite joking that a student had sex with a Smurf 1942856362

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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:37 pm

just living up to my username....

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:43 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Victorismyhero wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:Well, LF, on the other hand, we decide young people are ready for different things at different ages, right?

Kids can start handling racy and violent scenes on TV starting around age 12 or 13; they can be trusted to handle themselves on their own at a certain age; etc. etc. etc.

Saying that a 15-year-old can handle casting a vote is a bit different from saying that a 15-year-old can handle lewd comments from an authority figure, no?

(Not that I'd ever support giving 15-year-olds the vote, that's ridiculous.)

which means that in fact you agree with me....... Rolling Eyes

I agree people that young shouldn't get the vote, but not because they're not ready for sexual comments from their teachers.

exactly and thats because????

they are not mature enough in their ability to think and rationalise and all the other things that are needed to deal with lewed jokes from authority figures......yes?

precicely the same qualities that are needed to be able to vote.........no?






I don't think the qualities needed to handle suggestive comments from a teacher are really anything much like the qualities needed to decide whether you're for or against a policy or politician.

In the former, you need a thick skin and perhaps a sense of humor. In the latter, you need sound judgement and the ability to anticipate the possible outcomes of a decision.

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Post by Victorismyhero on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:52 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Victorismyhero wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Victorismyhero wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:Well, LF, on the other hand, we decide young people are ready for different things at different ages, right?

Kids can start handling racy and violent scenes on TV starting around age 12 or 13; they can be trusted to handle themselves on their own at a certain age; etc. etc. etc.

Saying that a 15-year-old can handle casting a vote is a bit different from saying that a 15-year-old can handle lewd comments from an authority figure, no?

(Not that I'd ever support giving 15-year-olds the vote, that's ridiculous.)

which means that in fact you agree with me....... Rolling Eyes

I agree people that young shouldn't get the vote, but not because they're not ready for sexual comments from their teachers.

exactly and thats because????

they are not mature enough in their ability to think and rationalise and all the other things that are needed to deal with lewed jokes from authority figures......yes?

precicely the same qualities that are needed to be able to vote.........no?






I don't think the qualities needed to handle suggestive comments from a teacher are really anything much like the qualities needed to decide whether you're for or against a policy or politician.

In the former, you need a thick skin and perhaps a sense of humor. In the latter, you need sound judgement and the ability to anticipate the possible outcomes of a decision.

you realise you have just disenfranchised all lefty voters...... HAH!!!!

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Post by Jules on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:58 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:
Jules wrote:I can only assume you quoted the wrong post, LF.
The level of aggression & rantiness is quite bizzare too. Not your usual style.


nope jules I quoted the correct post

not aimed at you personally...just a shotgun blast towards the left corner.....

I do like to poke in that corner now and again to see what runs out.....

glad to see that you actually see the point I was making ...

votes belong to adults
if you are held to be old enough to vote (as Corbyn &CO claim) then you are old enough for the rest of the shite of adulthood too
conversely
if you are NOT old enough to take the rest of the adult crap then you aint old enough to handle the responsibility of voting Teacher avoids being banned from profession despite joking that a student had sex with a Smurf 2190311264

Ah OK
Didge enjoys this style of - ahem - robust arguing the most, out of all of us - he'll be back soon. Wink

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Post by Jules on Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:07 am

Syl wrote:It's not really appropriate for a teacher to be making sexually explicit jokes to kids half his age.

Banning him from teaching altogether would be harsh though, hopefully being sacked will be all the  wake up call he needs.

He was wrong, we're all agreed on that but these pupils are not tiny tots - if they lived in Spain or France they'd be considered old enough to be legally sexually active with each other.

Bearing in mind the extreme stuff some teens view online, this is absolute peanuts.
No way would they be traumatised or corrupted by a few daft sexual jokes.

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:09 am

Jules wrote:
Syl wrote:It's not really appropriate for a teacher to be making sexually explicit jokes to kids half his age.

Banning him from teaching altogether would be harsh though, hopefully being sacked will be all the  wake up call he needs.

He was wrong, we're all agreed on that but these pupils are not tiny tots - if they lived in Spain or France they'd be considered old enough to be legally sexually active with each other.

Bearing in mind the extreme stuff some teens view online, this is absolute peanuts.
No way would they be traumatised or corrupted by a few daft sexual jokes.

I tend to agree with your post actually.

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Post by Jules on Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:22 am

Ah thanks eddie!  Smile

As a parent I was desperate for my lad to get top grades when he was 15 -ish. That's all I cared about.

I wouldn't have care less what jokes the teacher made (provided he never actually touched any of the kids.)

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:24 am

Jules wrote:Ah thanks eddie!  Smile

As a parent I was desperate for my lad to get top grades when he was 15 -ish. That's all I cared about.

I wouldn't have care less what jokes the teacher made (provided he never actually touched any of the kids.)

Well, I’m a very open person with my kids and wrapping them in cotton wool has never been my style. Of course, we need to protect them but in this case....I don’t see a problem.

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Post by Victorismyhero on Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:27 am

I can just imagine the joke

kid with blue ink on his fingers

teacher...hey kid, you been diddling a smurf


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Post by Syl on Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:35 am

Jules wrote:
Syl wrote:It's not really appropriate for a teacher to be making sexually explicit jokes to kids half his age.

Banning him from teaching altogether would be harsh though, hopefully being sacked will be all the  wake up call he needs.

He was wrong, we're all agreed on that but these pupils are not tiny tots - if they lived in Spain or France they'd be considered old enough to be legally sexually active with each other.

Bearing in mind the extreme stuff some teens view online, this is absolute peanuts.
No way would they be traumatised or corrupted by a few daft sexual jokes.
Yes we agree he was wrong, and I said I think he should be allowed to carry on teaching, just not at that school.
He was fired, and I think that's the right decision.
He had obviously lost the respect of his peers and his students.

My view may be considered old fashioned, but teachers earn respect by not trying to be one of the lads, and making smutty jokes to 14 and 15 year olds, isn't the way to go imo.

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:43 am

To be fair Syl, times have changed and if teachers are seen to be more “with it” and approachable then teenagers are going to respond better.
I’m not saying teachers should be mates with pupils and hang out at the same parties...but just to be on their level makes for a better relationship and better relationships lead to happier classrooms.

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Post by Syl on Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:05 am

eddie wrote:To be fair Syl, times have changed and if teachers are seen to be more “with it” and approachable then teenagers are going to respond better.
I’m not saying teachers should be mates with pupils and hang out at the same parties...but just to be on their level makes for a better relationship and better relationships lead to happier classrooms.
Times have changed but kids still like to have bounderies.
I know lines have relaxed between teacher and pupil, but i still think sharing smutty throwaway remarks isn't the best way to teach kids half your age.

This taken from the link doesn't sound like this teacher went the right way to create a happy classroom.

"Mr Evans, who qualified as a teacher in September 2016 but had already been promoted to deputy science head, said he was "disgusted" with himself and "distraught" that one student wanted to avoid his classes."

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Post by veya_victaous on Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:02 am

Victorismyhero wrote:
Jules wrote:Well the ages of 14 & 15 were mentioned. Adolescents, not tiny tots.
Science & Maths teachers are very hard to find, the recruitment crisis is dire in some cases.
Rather than rushing to throw errant teachers on the scrapheap we should find alternatives.


ANNND....here we go

the lefty side of things want to give the VOTE to 15 YO.....so WHY are they bothered if they are treated as adults?? surely old enough and mature enough  to vote = old enough to be treated as adults for ALL things including
being eligible for call up and cannon fodder
criminal responsibility as adults
getting married/relationships in the same was as 18 yo as at present (thatchell will love you guys)
driving a vehicle and the responsibility that carries
being able to get a licence and own a gun
pay their own taxes when working
leave school and work

The VOTE is the SOLE perogative of those in their majority (i.e "of age"), since it is/SHOULD?MUST only be given to those of sufficient maturity to use it properly (or looking at that conversely....having the vote implies such maturity.....) this is not something around which ifs and buts and excuses can be deployed its black or white either some one IS mature enough to vote AND that means mature enough for all the rest OR they are not...
so first question on this is

are you so far left that you are a corbynista and would give 15 YO the vote?

if the answer is yes....then why do you have a problem with this teacher treating the pupils as adults and making adult jokes with them?

those joke would see you sacked in any work place, particularly if you were a supervisor and called one of your staff a peado regardless of the 'joke'

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Post by eddie on Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:28 pm

Disagree Veya. Depends where you work. My bosses and colleagues have great banter.
That’s why I choose to stay there.

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Post by veya_victaous on Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:53 am

eddie wrote:Disagree Veya. Depends where you work. My bosses and colleagues have great banter.
That’s why I choose to stay there.

try calling one of them a peado snobby

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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:59 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:Well, LF, on the other hand, we decide young people are ready for different things at different ages, right?

Kids can start handling racy and violent scenes on TV starting around age 12 or 13; they can be trusted to handle themselves on their own at a certain age; etc. etc. etc.

Saying that a 15-year-old can handle casting a vote is a bit different from saying that a 15-year-old can handle lewd comments from an authority figure, no?

(Not that I'd ever support giving 15-year-olds the vote, that's ridiculous.)

Are we all forgetting here that a teenager's frontal lobe hasn't developed yet?  While adults can use rational processes when facing emotional decisions, teenagers are simply not yet equipped to think through things in the same way.  The results from the McLean study suggest that while adults can use rational decision making processes when facing emotional decisions, adolescent brains are simply not yet equipped to think through things in the same way.  The decision making centres of the brain continue to develop well into the early twenties, so allowing 15 year olds free rein to make logical far thinking and far reaching decisions isn't really wise.
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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:05 am

Victorismyhero wrote:
Jules wrote:Well the ages of 14 & 15 were mentioned. Adolescents, not tiny tots.
Science & Maths teachers are very hard to find, the recruitment crisis is dire in some cases.
Rather than rushing to throw errant teachers on the scrapheap we should find alternatives.


ANNND....here we go

the lefty side of things want to give the VOTE to 15 YO.....so WHY are they bothered if they are treated as adults?? surely old enough and mature enough  to vote = old enough to be treated as adults for ALL things including
being eligible for call up and cannon fodder
criminal responsibility as adults
getting married/relationships in the same was as 18 yo as at present (thatchell will love you guys)
driving a vehicle and the responsibility that carries
being able to get a licence and own a gun
pay their own taxes when working
leave school and work

The VOTE is the SOLE perogative of those in their majority (i.e "of age"), since it is/SHOULD?MUST only be given to those of sufficient maturity to use it properly (or looking at that conversely....having the vote implies such maturity.....) this is not something around which ifs and buts and excuses can be deployed its black or white either some one IS mature enough to vote AND that means mature enough for all the rest OR they are not...
so first question on this is

are you so far left that you are a corbynista and would give 15 YO the vote?


if the answer is yes....then why do you have a problem with this teacher treating the pupils as adults and making adult jokes with them?

The very reason it's easy to send youngsters into war. People like Corbyn know how open to suggestion young people are, they're easy to manipulate and control, and generally susceptible to hive thinking and running with the herd. Couple that to a typical teenager's irrational thinking and fearlessness for the future, and you have your own little "Oliver's army."
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