Are the British Tories more like the American Republicans or the Democrats?

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Are the British Tories more like the American Republicans or the Democrats? Empty Are the British Tories more like the American Republicans or the Democrats?

Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:05 pm

The Conservative Party of the United Kingdom has hired an unexpected-but-certainly-qualified person to advise its general election team: Jim Messina, architect of the Barack Obama re-election and former Deputy White House Chief of Staff. What gives? How could a self-described lifelong Democrat go work for the Conservatives?

In short: Money. But also because the U.K. Conservatives are not like U.S. conservatives.

Let's be clear: This is not a Benedict Arnold-style move. The BBC reports on the hire, noting that Messina will remain in the U.S. (where Messina runs Organizing For Action) and will be used largely to advise on social media and campaign structure. The outlet also notes that it's not the first time the Conservatives and the Obama team have been linked.

>>>chart at link<<<

The final tally from the above? Two Conservative policies similar to the Republican party; six to the Democrats. And in two instances — the death penalty and nationalized healthcare — it runs further to the left.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/how-conservative-would-uk-conservatives-be-us/312573/

It can be tempting to think that things in the U.S. and the UK are more or less the same, but this shows how right-wing America is -- the leaders of the Democratic Party, which is more or less as left as the Conservatives, are branded far-left socialists and communists by the Republican Party.

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Post by eddie on Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:10 pm

That blew my mind when you told me that. It’s really quite interesting...can’t wait to see what other’s think.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:19 pm

eddie wrote:That blew my mind when you told me that. It’s really quite interesting...can’t wait to see what other’s think.

And there's more; take gun policy. While most mainstream Democrats believe in what we call "sensible" gun regulations, very few actually advocate banning guns altogether, which doesn't seem to be that controversial an issue from what I've seen.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:46 pm

Now compare the polices of the Socialist Democrats, who are very much to the left of the majority of Democrats who are center right.

That is why the democrats are getting labelled further left, because they now have a number of leftist Democrats in office

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:00 pm

phildidge wrote:Now compare the polices of the Socialist Democrats, who are very much to the left of the majority of Democrats who are center right.

That is why the democrats are getting labelled further left, because they now have a number of leftist Democrats in office

It's tough for me to compare the more socialist-leaning Democrats with the Tories since I don't know whether the Tories are in favor of the current British system of benefits or not.

Nonetheless, I know this much: 1) benefits are much more generous in the UK than in America, 2) Conservatives run the government and 3) they don't seem to be dismantling the benefits system. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Democrats who want to expand our benefits in America are still pretty much in line with the Tories. Of course, I could be totally wrong.

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Post by Maddog on Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:01 pm

A Tory would be a moderate Democrat in most cases.

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Post by Maddog on Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:05 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
phildidge wrote:Now compare the polices of the Socialist Democrats, who are very much to the left of the majority of Democrats who are center right.

That is why the democrats are getting labelled further left, because they now have a number of leftist Democrats in office

It's tough for me to compare the more socialist-leaning Democrats with the Tories since I don't know whether the Tories are in favor of the current British system of benefits or not.

Nonetheless, I know this much: 1) benefits are much more generous in the UK than in America, 2) Conservatives run the government and 3) they don't seem to be dismantling the benefits system. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Democrats who want to expand our benefits in America are still pretty much in line with the Tories. Of course, I could be totally wrong.

I started a post about the Democratic Socialists of America with a link to their webpage. It would make the comparison quite easy.

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Post by Eilzel on Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:38 am

Conservatives are like moderate Democrats.

On a spectrum of left to right with recent known 'leaders' (not Trump, he's an outlier with no 'real' political ideology imo) I'd line them up like this:

Pence-Bush-Rees Mogg-Clinton-Cameron/May-Sanders-Corbyn

I think some Tories WOULD dismantle the welfare state and even sell off the NHS if they could. But above ALL ideology the Tories are pragmatists, and won't do something politically damaging to winning. It's why they gave us a Brexit vote and why they won't split as dramatically as Labour have. Winning is everything.

At the same time, the Cameron mould is very socially liberal so well removed from GOP counterparts.

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Post by veya_victaous on Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:34 am

ironically the more socialist aspect stem from UK/Australian systems evolving out of super conservative Monarchism...

Like the cemetery and about 50 acres of land next to me(set aside for expansion in the 1800's that never occurred) is still technically owned by the Queen.
Similarly the Hospitals were originally all owned by the crown. As we became Secular democracies things like hospitals transferred from the crown to the state.

we are not really comparable to the USA since their gov't essentially started with nothing, while we started with established institutions operating under the crown.

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Post by nicko on Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:05 am

Let me know about that land Veya, I'll have a word with Liz, see what we can do about it ! Laughing
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Post by veya_victaous on Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:14 am

nicko wrote:Let me know about that land Veya,   I'll have a word with Liz, see what we can do about it ! Laughing

it's held under 99 year leases, which can bought and sold like a land title but the yearly rent goes up every 99 years, considering inflation over 99 years it is normally by a lot. I did look into the closest block as it was part of my farmhouses original holdings before it was subdivided. it is about 50 years into the lease and the rent is only like $300 a year for just over 5 acres.
but like most crown land it has the condition that you wont build anything permanent on it and you can lose it without reparations if the crown 'reclaims' it. which does happen in some places normally to given/sold to the govt to be released for medium density housing or public infrastructure.

he wanted too much upfront for it, for me, since i had just paid a deposit on the house at the time Neutral
Someone that bought one of the other blocks bought the lease of him too about 18 months ago.

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Post by Jules on Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:40 am

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
The Conservative Party of the United Kingdom has hired an unexpected-but-certainly-qualified person to advise its general election team: Jim Messina, architect of the Barack Obama re-election and former Deputy White House Chief of Staff. What gives? How could a self-described lifelong Democrat go work for the Conservatives?

In short: Money. But also because the U.K. Conservatives are not like U.S. conservatives.

Let's be clear: This is not a Benedict Arnold-style move. The BBC reports on the hire, noting that Messina will remain in the U.S. (where Messina runs Organizing For Action) and will be used largely to advise on social media and campaign structure. The outlet also notes that it's not the first time the Conservatives and the Obama team have been linked.

>>>chart at link<<<

The final tally from the above? Two Conservative policies similar to the Republican party; six to the Democrats. And in two instances — the death penalty and nationalized healthcare — it runs further to the left.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/how-conservative-would-uk-conservatives-be-us/312573/

It can be tempting to think that things in the U.S. and the UK are more or less the same, but this shows how right-wing America is -- the leaders of the Democratic Party, which is more or less as left as the Conservatives, are branded far-left socialists and communists by the Republican Party.

Your politicians as a group are more RW than ours. 

In fact your liberal politicians are more RW than our own conservative ones

Strong historical & cultural reasons lie behind this. 

#howthewestwaswon
#nra

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