Christchurch Shootings

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Post by Maddog on Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:15 pm

(CNN)Police in the New Zealand city of Christchurch said that there are "multiple fatalities" after active shooters opened fire in two mosques in the city center.

Police Commissioner Mike Bush said that one person is in custody but police are unsure if there are any other suspects.
"As far as we know (the shootings occurred) at two locations, a mosque at Deans Avenue, and another mosque at Linwood Avenue," Bush said. "We are unsure if there are any other locations outside of that area that are under threat."
Bush said they were "dealing with a very serious and tragic series of events in the Christchurch Canterbury area" and warned people to stay off the streets. He asked "anyone who was thinking of going to a mosque anywhere in New Zealand today not to go. To close your doors until you hear from us again," he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/asia/christchurch-mosque-shooting-intl/index.html

Kind seemed like this little corner of the world was free from this nonsense.

Guess not. Guess it can happen anywhere.

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:12 pm

Tragic news, especially in a place like NZ.

Of course shooting can happen anywhere. People are unpredictable.

Of course, in many countries, ANY shooting makes front page news, is an absolute shock and is extremely rare.

As is the case in New Zealand, thank goodness.

Sounds to be an attack by a neo-nazi, lets hope they get exactly who it was an all those involved ASAP.

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Post by Maddog on Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:27 pm

Eilzel wrote:Tragic news, especially in a place like NZ.

Of course shooting can happen anywhere. People are unpredictable.

Of course, in many countries, ANY shooting makes front page news, is an absolute shock and is extremely rare.

As is the case in New Zealand, thank goodness.

Sounds to be an attack by a neo-nazi, lets hope they get exactly who it was an all those involved ASAP.

I was just surfing around. NZ (the whole country) has 2 million less people than the N. Texas region (13 of 254 counties) I live in. I knew it had a low population, but didn't think it was less than 5 million.

Anyway, it seems like there are 4 in custody and the main shooter was from Australia. Wonder why he went to NZ to pull this off? Better chance of getting away with it?  Christchurch Shootings 2190311264

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Post by phildidge on Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:29 pm

Not much to be know, accept this was clearly white supremacists

The number of deaths could be as high as 30 or more in mutiple places

Of all places, I would have never expected to wake up to see this has happened in New Zealand. One of the most freindliest countries going

My heart goes out to all the victims families on such a tragic day

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Post by Maddog on Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:57 pm

40 people killed. Sad

That's just crazy.

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:07 pm

Maddog wrote:40 people killed.  Sad

That's just crazy.  

Horrible to hear of how many have been killed. Extremely sad day for NZ.

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Post by Jules on Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:24 pm

Terrorists of all shades, colours & creeds are ice cold psycopaths.
The mind boggles how a human being gets to be that way.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:12 pm

49 dead, at least 20 wounded, and an anti-immigrant manifesto found in one of the shooters' belongings in which he called it a terrorist attack.

Apparently one shooter live-streamed the shooting on Facebook as well.

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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:25 pm

Dreadful. This world is broken.
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Post by Vintage on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:32 pm

Shocking anywhere but in New Zealand its even more shocking.
Why do some people think murdering innocent people solves anything at all.

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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:42 pm

I've just watched the entire footage on you tube.... It's truly shocking. He shoots them in such a clinical way... Then when he gets in his car to drive away the music track is The Crazy World of Arthur Brown's Fire. It's just horrible. Horrible.
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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:25 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:I've just watched the entire footage on you tube.... It's truly shocking.  He shoots them in such a clinical way...   Then when he gets in his car to drive away the music track is The Crazy World of Arthur Brown's Fire.   It's just horrible.  Horrible.

Are you actually able to see the shooter in the video? Or was it shot by the shooter himself?

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Post by HoratioTarr on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:11 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:I've just watched the entire footage on you tube.... It's truly shocking.  He shoots them in such a clinical way...   Then when he gets in his car to drive away the music track is The Crazy World of Arthur Brown's Fire.   It's just horrible.  Horrible.

Are you actually able to see the shooter in the video? Or was it shot by the shooter himself?

Yes. He films himself. It's about 15 minutes long.He goes into the mosque, shoots them all, goes outside shoots some more goes back in and then systematically shoots them all in the head to make sure they're dead. You can hear them all groaning. The woman outside was the worst. She's lying on the ground shouting for help and he just goes up and empties three or four bullets into the back of her head.
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Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:15 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:I've just watched the entire footage on you tube.... It's truly shocking.  He shoots them in such a clinical way...   Then when he gets in his car to drive away the music track is The Crazy World of Arthur Brown's Fire.   It's just horrible.  Horrible.

Are you actually able to see the shooter in the video? Or was it shot by the shooter himself?

Yes.   He films himself.  It's about 15 minutes long.He goes into the mosque, shoots them all, goes outside shoots some more goes back in and then systematically shoots them all in the head to make sure they're dead.    You can hear them all groaning.  The woman outside was the worst.  She's lying on the ground shouting for help and he just goes up and empties three or four bullets into the back of her head.  

I think I saw the same video (though I couldn't make myself watch after the shooting began). He shows his face in the very beginning, then goes into the back of the car and gets out a gun that appears to have writing all over it in the one I saw.

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Post by Maddog on Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:15 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

Are you actually able to see the shooter in the video? Or was it shot by the shooter himself?

Yes.   He films himself.  It's about 15 minutes long.He goes into the mosque, shoots them all, goes outside shoots some more goes back in and then systematically shoots them all in the head to make sure they're dead.    You can hear them all groaning.  The woman outside was the worst.  She's lying on the ground shouting for help and he just goes up and empties three or four bullets into the back of her head.  
Was that music some sort of German music? 

He sure didnt seem too worried about getting caught . He waltzed around there without a care in the world.

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Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:33 am

We need to be careful about what here.

Are we sure this person is white?? They could be racially non binary or even identify as black

And of course simply looking at a person is no way to determine their gender, even having a penis is no garauntee that you're a man

So rushing to conclude this is a white male who carried out this attack is hugely insensitive to the LGBTQ+ community.

Second

We must be sensitive to these individuals who are clearly suffering from mental illness and possibly drug addiction, so to condemn he she they outright is very insensitive.

Third.

We must be careful not to tar the white supremacist community with the actions of these individuals, this is clearly an isolated incident. It is well known that the white supremacist ideology is one of peace and tolerance doesn't preach violence ever and these individuals have clearly misinterpreted and corrupted the message of peace from the white supremacist community.

We must stand vigilant and fight against all forms of white supremacistphobia and ensure that the white supremacist community does not feel isolated or attacked during this trying time for them.

#notallwhitesupremascists

Sound familiar??

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Post by Victorismyhero on Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:30 am

hmmmmmmm

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Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:42 am

Victorismyhero wrote:hmmmmmmm

Shit happens vic

This type of shit happens all the time to churches in Egypt and Indonesia with zero msm coverage

The Liberals and the celebs and the royals and the fucking MSM will. Make a meal out of this, and white men will suffer over this I bet there is some kind of debate on how to tame "white men"

I'm just putting into perspective, everytime a Muslims kills the infidel, the powers that be immediately move to portray the Muslim community as the victim, and everything I have said is applied to the Muslim community

Just playing their game by their rules.

What do you want???

I'm an asshole.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:26 am

Mosque massacre hero 'wrestled gun from killer and forced him to flee in waiting car': Survivors' incredible bravery revealed after gunman kills 49 people in New Zealand mosque attacks

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6814355/Mosque-massacre-hero-wrestled-gun-killer-forced-flee-waiting-car.html


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Post by phildidge on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:28 am

As the terrorist approached the Al Noor Mosque in Christchurch he was greeted
The devotee at the door to the mosque can be heard saying, 'Hello brother'
Just moments later the assailant was unloading shotgun shells at the victim
The Muslim worshipper has been hailed as a hero for his Islamic compassion

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6813839/Hello-brother-Muslim-victim-greeted-terrorist-gunman-New-Zealand-mosque.html

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Post by SEXY MAMA on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:29 am

phildidge wrote:As the terrorist approached the Al Noor Mosque in Christchurch he was greeted
The devotee at the door to the mosque can be heard saying, 'Hello brother'
Just moments later the assailant was unloading shotgun shells at the victim
The Muslim worshipper has been hailed as a hero for his Islamic compassion

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6813839/Hello-brother-Muslim-victim-greeted-terrorist-gunman-New-Zealand-mosque.html

We greet everyone at a mosque.

Everyone is always welcome.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:38 am

Terrorists love to exploit the deaths of children at the hands of the people they declare enemies. The propaganda of al Qaeda and the so-called Islamic State is filled with images of mutilated toddlers that give the jihadis, they claim, license to take revenge and commit mass murder.

So, too, with white supremacists—including the alleged murderer of almost 50 people at mosques in New Zealand on Friday. They have seized on the image of 11-year-old Ebba Åkerlund, killed in a 2017 terror attack in Sweden and often made into memes, to feed their hatred. Her name was scrawled onto the butt of the New Zealand shooter’s assault rifle along with other pretexts for his “revenge.”

Her father, Stefan Åkerlund, told the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet that he was mortified when he saw how the latest terrorist had used his daughter’s name. “I broke into a cold sweat as soon as I saw that he had rifles with my daughter’s name,” he said. “How in hell can we ever get to mourn in peace?”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/new-zealand-shooting-who-was-ebba-akerlund-whose-death-mosque-shooter-used-as-pretext-for-revenge?ref=home

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Post by Victorismyhero on Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:24 am

smelly-bandit wrote:
Victorismyhero wrote:hmmmmmmm

Shit happens vic

This type of shit happens all the time to churches in Egypt and Indonesia with zero msm coverage

The Liberals and the celebs and the royals and the fucking MSM will. Make a meal out of this, and white men will suffer over this I bet there is some kind of debate on how to tame "white men"

I'm just putting into perspective, everytime a Muslims kills the infidel, the powers that be immediately move to portray the Muslim community as the victim, and everything I have said is applied to the Muslim community

Just playing their game by their rules.

What do you want???

I'm an asshole.

We know, but at least you are a consistent ..what you see is what you get kinda asshole so..............

that Hmmmmmmm wasnt a sign of particular disapproval btw smelly.....more a case of its a bit too soon for that kind of black twisted and bitter humour, no matter how close to truth it is.
IMO BOTH sides (or all sides if you want to be more inclusive) use exactly this tactic of mental illness drugs and "its only a few"

You seem to view me with a slight horror...I dont know why  Christchurch Shootings 2190311264
I certainly dont know you particularly well . but given what you have said, I DO understand that you have views conditioned by things you have seen and done...things which, particularly at my age. I have no great wish to partake of.

All I can say to ease your mind as to my moderating intent is this....

your views are welcome.....just dont descend into deliberately and maliciously espousing and promoting racial/religious hatred. The judgement whereof is MY decision in collusion with the other mods..... BUT DO expect of course to be robustly challenged and dont (not that I have ever seen you do it to your credit) descend into flame wars with others.....

As to this particular item, surely even you, whilst perhaps hot being greatly surprised by it, must agree that its a terrible thing that 49 innocents, regardless of their religion, were killed whilst going about their lawful daily worship, especially when children were also victims to a callous brutal killer with an agenda that only seeks to destabilize well, nearly everything that a decent society should stand for. Do we really have room here to point fingers and play the "who started it first"? game


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Post by phildidge on Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:32 am

Victorismyhero wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

Shit happens vic

This type of shit happens all the time to churches in Egypt and Indonesia with zero msm coverage

The Liberals and the celebs and the royals and the fucking MSM will. Make a meal out of this, and white men will suffer over this I bet there is some kind of debate on how to tame "white men"

I'm just putting into perspective, everytime a Muslims kills the infidel, the powers that be immediately move to portray the Muslim community as the victim, and everything I have said is applied to the Muslim community

Just playing their game by their rules.

What do you want???

I'm an asshole.

We know, but at least you are a consistent ..what you see is what you get kinda asshole so..............

that Hmmmmmmm wasnt a sign of particular disapproval btw smelly.....more a case of its a bit too soon for that kind of black twisted and bitter humour, no matter how close to truth it is.
IMO BOTH sides (or all sides if you want to be more inclusive) use exactly this tactic of  mental illness drugs and "its only a few"  

You seem to view me with a slight horror...I dont know why  Christchurch Shootings 2190311264
I certainly dont know you particularly well . but given what you have said, I DO understand that you have views conditioned by things you have seen and done...things which, particularly at my age. I have no great wish to partake of.

All I can say to ease your mind as to my moderating intent is this....

your views are welcome.....just dont descend into deliberately and maliciously espousing and promoting racial/religious hatred. The judgement whereof is MY decision in collusion with the other mods.....  BUT DO expect of course to be robustly challenged and dont (not that I have ever seen you do it to your credit) descend into flame wars with others.....

As to this particular item, surely even you, whilst perhaps hot being greatly surprised by it, must agree that its a terrible thing that 49 innocents, regardless of their religion, were killed whilst going about their lawful daily worship, especially when children were also victims to a callous brutal killer with an agenda that only seeks to destabilize  well, nearly everything that a decent society should stand for. Do we really have room here to point fingers and play the "who started it first"? game


+1

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Post by Jules on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:22 am

smelly-bandit wrote:
Victorismyhero wrote:hmmmmmmm

Shit happens vic

This type of shit happens all the time to churches in Egypt and Indonesia with zero msm coverage

The Liberals and the celebs and the royals and the fucking MSM will. Make a meal out of this, and white men will suffer over this I bet there is some kind of debate on how to tame "white men"

I'm just putting into perspective, everytime a Muslims kills the infidel, the powers that be immediately move to portray the Muslim community as the victim, and everything I have said is applied to the Muslim community

Just playing their game by their rules.

What do you want???

I'm an asshole.

Why would it cross your mind to even use the word 'game' in a topic like this?  Is this the sort of thread anyone would play games in?

It's day one of an obituary thread, and you're in the mood for fun & games. Totally inappropriate, pull yourself together and pull your trousers up cos atm, you're squatting & shitting all over this thread.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:32 am

Jules wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

Shit happens vic

This type of shit happens all the time to churches in Egypt and Indonesia with zero msm coverage

The Liberals and the celebs and the royals and the fucking MSM will. Make a meal out of this, and white men will suffer over this I bet there is some kind of debate on how to tame "white men"

I'm just putting into perspective, everytime a Muslims kills the infidel, the powers that be immediately move to portray the Muslim community as the victim, and everything I have said is applied to the Muslim community

Just playing their game by their rules.

What do you want???

I'm an asshole.

Why would it cross your mind to even use the word 'game' in a topic like this?  Is this the sort of thread anyone would play games in?

It's day one of an obituary thread, and you're in the mood for fun & games. Totally inappropriate, pull yourself together and pull your trousers up cos atm, you're squatting & shitting all over this thread.

Hi Jules

His intent is to reel you in and make you react as you have done so. As to smelly it is a game

Smelly is right on a couple of aspects that when there is islamic terrorism. The media view point is to play off a script

1) Lets not jump to conclusions

2) That they have mental health issues

3) Not to cast off all of a group, based off the actions of an individual

Though he failed to factor one aspect here which does not fit the bill

I dont see a story of a white supremacist civillian looking to do a heroic act and then played out by the media. In fact the heroic act was again by a Muslim, who disarmed the attacker and no doubt saved lives by his actions.

That part, never fitted the normal media script

So dont be suckered in by smelly here. As he knows very well how to entice people to react

The best points made here were by Victor in reply to him

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Post by Maddog on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:34 am

Jules wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

Shit happens vic

This type of shit happens all the time to churches in Egypt and Indonesia with zero msm coverage

The Liberals and the celebs and the royals and the fucking MSM will. Make a meal out of this, and white men will suffer over this I bet there is some kind of debate on how to tame "white men"

I'm just putting into perspective, everytime a Muslims kills the infidel, the powers that be immediately move to portray the Muslim community as the victim, and everything I have said is applied to the Muslim community

Just playing their game by their rules.

What do you want???

I'm an asshole.

Why would it cross your mind to even use the word 'game' in a topic like this?  Is this the sort of thread anyone would play games in?

It's day one of an obituary thread, and you're in the mood for fun & games. Totally inappropriate, pull yourself together and pull your trousers up cos atm, you're squatting & shitting all over this thread.

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................

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Post by phildidge on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:40 am

Maddog wrote:
Jules wrote:

Why would it cross your mind to even use the word 'game' in a topic like this?  Is this the sort of thread anyone would play games in?

It's day one of an obituary thread, and you're in the mood for fun & games. Totally inappropriate, pull yourself together and pull your trousers up cos atm, you're squatting & shitting all over this thread.

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................  

That is not really his point though mate

I get your point on this, but its more about how the media portray a terrorist attack in the west

How not to view all Muslims based off this

Hence his view, not to view all white supremacists off this

Which is a false equivalency. As most Muslims are not islamic supremacists, as ISIS are.

So yes he has a point on how the media portray such attacks, but he also doing so, to make a mockery of this.

You are very right though how evenets are view in the west. When all should be seen as horrfic. I guess this has more to do with the levels of how people see civilisation between nations. I guess that shows again a subconscious bias they have. When it comes to such terrorist events. That they only tune in more to this, when it happens in predominantly a white majority and Christian society.

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Post by Jules on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:52 am

Maddog wrote:
Jules wrote:

Why would it cross your mind to even use the word 'game' in a topic like this?  Is this the sort of thread anyone would play games in?

It's day one of an obituary thread, and you're in the mood for fun & games. Totally inappropriate, pull yourself together and pull your trousers up cos atm, you're squatting & shitting all over this thread.

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................  
Someone has to break this cycle of wickedness, too much tit for tat stuff going on.


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Post by Eilzel on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:59 am

Maddog wrote:
Jules wrote:
smelly-bandit wrote:

Shit happens vic

This type of shit happens all the time to churches in Egypt and Indonesia with zero msm coverage

The Liberals and the celebs and the royals and the fucking MSM will. Make a meal out of this, and white men will suffer over this I bet there is some kind of debate on how to tame "white men"

I'm just putting into perspective, everytime a Muslims kills the infidel, the powers that be immediately move to portray the Muslim community as the victim, and everything I have said is applied to the Muslim community

Just playing their game by their rules.

What do you want???

I'm an asshole.

Why would it cross your mind to even use the word 'game' in a topic like this?  Is this the sort of thread anyone would play games in?

It's day one of an obituary thread, and you're in the mood for fun & games. Totally inappropriate, pull yourself together and pull your trousers up cos atm, you're squatting & shitting all over this thread.

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................  

I don't think they are comparable.

Bombings and attacks in warzones or countries with rampant terrorism are hardly going to surprise anyone when another attack happens. It's still tragic, but no one is going to be wondering 'how the fuck did that happen?'

In a country almost synonymous with peace and pacifity it is a surprise, and at least from a security pov more tragic, because attacks like this should not happen in places where like that.

It isn't that people don't care about people dying in Pakistan, the problem is people die more frequently and we all know there are bigger problems in that region causing the higher rate of terrorism.

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Post by Maddog on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:05 am

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................  

I don't think they are comparable.

Bombings and attacks in warzones or countries with rampant terrorism are hardly going to surprise anyone when another attack happens. It's still tragic, but no one is going to be wondering 'how the fuck did that happen?'

In a country almost synonymous with peace and pacifity it is a surprise, and at least from a security pov more tragic, because attacks like this should not happen in places where like that.

It isn't that people don't care about people dying in Pakistan, the problem is people die more frequently and we all know there are bigger problems in that region causing the higher rate of terrorism.

It's true that we are not surprised when it happens in some places.

But it seems like we value life less, when we mourn it's loss differently.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, but loved ones who are burying their dead feel the same pain in Pakistan and NZ.

It happens here too though. 10 dead black kids in Chicago, will get far less coverage than one or two dead white kids in Kansas.

I'm guilty myself and have zero idea about how to fix it either.


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Post by phildidge on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:09 am

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................  

I don't think they are comparable.

Bombings and attacks in warzones or countries with rampant terrorism are hardly going to surprise anyone when another attack happens. It's still tragic, but no one is going to be wondering 'how the fuck did that happen?'

In a country almost synonymous with peace and pacifity it is a surprise, and at least from a security pov more tragic, because attacks like this should not happen in places where like that.

It isn't that people don't care about people dying in Pakistan, the problem is people die more frequently and we all know there are bigger problems in that region causing the higher rate of terrorism.

Sorry mate, but we once here had countless terrorism also with the IRA

This has more to do with how the media portray events and how societies view them, based off this

I mean look at wars with israel. They are often front page news daily, 24/7 coverage and yet conflicts in Syria, for the last few years never are.

Some countries are held to higher standards than others and this mainly comes from a left leaning media view point

As again its based on how the media views a country based on a certain standard and value. Which they then never apply the same standard to nations that have more conflict. Based on western values. In other words, countries not from a western liberal standard. Are never held in the same standard and limelight as non-liberal nations.

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:50 am

phildidge wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................  

I don't think they are comparable.

Bombings and attacks in warzones or countries with rampant terrorism are hardly going to surprise anyone when another attack happens. It's still tragic, but no one is going to be wondering 'how the fuck did that happen?'

In a country almost synonymous with peace and pacifity it is a surprise, and at least from a security pov more tragic, because attacks like this should not happen in places where like that.

It isn't that people don't care about people dying in Pakistan, the problem is people die more frequently and we all know there are bigger problems in that region causing the higher rate of terrorism.

Sorry mate, but we once here had countless terrorism also with the IRA

This has more to do with how the media portray events and how societies view them, based off this

I mean look at wars with israel. They are often front page news daily, 24/7 coverage and yet conflicts in Syria, for the last few years never are.

Some countries are held to higher standards than others and this mainly comes from a left leaning media view point

As again its based on how the media views a country based on a certain standard and value. Which they then never apply the same standard to nations that have more conflict. Based on western values. In other words, countries not from a western liberal standard. Are never held in the same standard and limelight as non-liberal nations.

And why do you think that is?

This doesn't hold true for a lot crime and murder ridden Latin American countries btw.

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Post by Eilzel on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:53 am

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................  

I don't think they are comparable.

Bombings and attacks in warzones or countries with rampant terrorism are hardly going to surprise anyone when another attack happens. It's still tragic, but no one is going to be wondering 'how the fuck did that happen?'

In a country almost synonymous with peace and pacifity it is a surprise, and at least from a security pov more tragic, because attacks like this should not happen in places where like that.

It isn't that people don't care about people dying in Pakistan, the problem is people die more frequently and we all know there are bigger problems in that region causing the higher rate of terrorism.

It's true that we are not surprised when it happens in some places.

But it seems like we value life less, when we mourn it's loss differently.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, but loved ones who are burying their dead feel the same pain in Pakistan and NZ.

It happens here too though. 10 dead black kids in Chicago, will get far less coverage than one or two dead white kids in Kansas.

I'm guilty myself and have zero idea about how to fix it either.    


I hate quote Stalin, but he had a point when he said 'one murder is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.'

It's why the image of a boy dead on a beach in 2015 sparked an outpouring of brief support for mass immigration.

Thousands of deaths a year in Middle Eastern and subcontinental countries densensitises people to deaths in those places. A single attack in a country where attacks don't happen will always be shocking and therefore have more impact.

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Post by phildidge on Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:12 pm

Eilzel wrote:
phildidge wrote:

Sorry mate, but we once here had countless terrorism also with the IRA

This has more to do with how the media portray events and how societies view them, based off this

I mean look at wars with israel. They are often front page news daily, 24/7 coverage and yet conflicts in Syria, for the last few years never are.

Some countries are held to higher standards than others and this mainly comes from a left leaning media view point

As again its based on how the media views a country based on a certain standard and value. Which they then never apply the same standard to nations that have more conflict. Based on western values. In other words, countries not from a western liberal standard. Are never held in the same standard and limelight as non-liberal nations.

And why do you think that is?

This doesn't hold true for a lot crime and murder ridden Latin American countries btw.

Yes it does hold true, as we are talking about terrorism

We do no get to see when murders happen in many countries

But terrorist events are broadcast differently, dependent on he country, when its a western civilization compared to the Middle East/Asia etc

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Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:38 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................  

I don't think they are comparable.

Bombings and attacks in warzones or countries with rampant terrorism are hardly going to surprise anyone when another attack happens. It's still tragic, but no one is going to be wondering 'how the fuck did that happen?'

In a country almost synonymous with peace and pacifity it is a surprise, and at least from a security pov more tragic, because attacks like this should not happen in places where like that.

It isn't that people don't care about people dying in Pakistan, the problem is people die more frequently and we all know there are bigger problems in that region causing the higher rate of terrorism.

You're right they aren't comparable

No one bat's an eyelid when a Muslim murders loads of Christians in church

Some mentally ill drug addict kills Muslims under identical circumstances and the entire world goes mad.

It would seem the value of christian lives are not comparable to the value of Muslim lives


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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:56 pm

This isn't an obituary thread, as Jules claimed, it's a news thread, and it's fine to talk about potential reasons for this kind of attack.

I'm afraid I'm really not sure what to say about this dreadful incident. I didn't see the video - I think it's been pulled from the internet.

So many people in the "wrong" place at the wrong time, if you know what I mean. It could happen anywhere - in small towns in the UK, in countries where nobody expects it, in places where nobody did anything bad to anyone else.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:23 pm

These attacks are generally carried out by men rather than women. Perhaps there is an urge in some people to be a "soldier" but it's repressed, quite rightly, by the laws of society and also by conscience, but one day they feel they have to act. Could it be an excess of testosterone or something?

The other thing is that these acts are carried out by people who either have extremely strong beliefs, or those who have nothing to lose. After all, they must know there's a strong chance they're going to be killed or caught. This man even put his own face on the internet, so he didn't care if he was identified. Do they stop and think that if they're caught, they will be in prison for the rest of their life? If so, they must really really feel they have no life that's worth living.

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Post by smelly-bandit on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:These attacks are generally carried out by men rather than women. Perhaps there is an urge in some people to be a "soldier" but it's repressed, quite rightly, by the laws of society and also by conscience, but one day they feel they have to act.  Could it be an excess of testosterone or something?

The other thing is that these acts are carried out by people who either have extremely strong beliefs, or those who have nothing to lose. After all, they must know there's a strong chance they're going to be killed or caught. This man even put his own face on the internet, so he didn't care if he was identified. Do they stop and think that if they're caught, they will be in prison for the rest of their life? If so, they must really really feel they have no life that's worth living.

I think it's more like this guy has probably been watching shit like ISIS, and the Manchester bombing and the various Islamic attacks across Europe and saw the authorities doing nothing about it so decided to do something himself

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:37 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:These attacks are generally carried out by men rather than women. Perhaps there is an urge in some people to be a "soldier" but it's repressed, quite rightly, by the laws of society and also by conscience, but one day they feel they have to act.  Could it be an excess of testosterone or something?

The other thing is that these acts are carried out by people who either have extremely strong beliefs, or those who have nothing to lose. After all, they must know there's a strong chance they're going to be killed or caught. This man even put his own face on the internet, so he didn't care if he was identified. Do they stop and think that if they're caught, they will be in prison for the rest of their life? If so, they must really really feel they have no life that's worth living.

I think it's more like this guy has probably been watching shit like ISIS, and the Manchester bombing and the various Islamic attacks across Europe and saw the authorities doing nothing about it so decided to do something himself

Yes, but it's part of the same thing. The perpetrators of Islamic attacks are often killed, so there's not much to be done about them anyway. They might be in prison, but many people feel they're having a cushy life in there, so he might think that too. It might be that people like this guy has this need to get revenge somehow, or to kill the people he feels are responsible, and he can't repress that feeling. He can't do anything legal because of the law, so he goes on the rampage instead.

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Post by Victorismyhero on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:25 pm

smelly-bandit wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Let's be honest, he sorta has a point. If your were to Google "Pakistan Mosque Attack" you would get hundreds of hits about several events that killed scores of people at each event. All of them Muslim (not sure he was referring to the Muslim dead, but no matter really).

We here in the West, are numb to these events that are equally as deadly, as long as they are in non Western countries.

A thread about 50 Muslims getting killed in Lahore would be ignored. Now if it's in Christchurch.......................  

I don't think they are comparable.

Bombings and attacks in warzones or countries with rampant terrorism are hardly going to surprise anyone when another attack happens. It's still tragic, but no one is going to be wondering 'how the fuck did that happen?'

In a country almost synonymous with peace and pacifity it is a surprise, and at least from a security pov more tragic, because attacks like this should not happen in places where like that.

It isn't that people don't care about people dying in Pakistan, the problem is people die more frequently and we all know there are bigger problems in that region causing the higher rate of terrorism.

You're right they aren't comparable

No one bat's an eyelid when a Muslim murders loads of Christians in church



Some mentally ill drug addict kills Muslims under identical circumstances and the entire world goes mad.

It would seem the value of christian lives are not comparable to the value of Muslim lives


TBF Smelly, given that That scenario is most likely in certain mid east countries, equally, no one bats an eyelid when a load of Muslims of one sort murder a load of Muslims of the other sort in a mosque or in the street....

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:29 pm

It seems that NZ have rather lax gun laws, and now they're going to change them. No country should be complacent about this sort of event. The time to restrict guns should be before this kind of thing happens - unless it's America of course.

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Post by HoratioTarr on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:26 pm

It's all the over the newspapers that the guy at the door to the mosque called out , Welcome Brother, or some such. I watched that video twice in it's entirety and nobody said that. You see the man in the mosque doorway turn to see the shooter with his gun raised, and then he gets shot. He doesn't say a word. Why would he? You'd say Welcome brother, to someone pointing a gun at you? More media manipulation.
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Post by Jules on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:55 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:This isn't an obituary thread, as Jules claimed, it's a news thread, and it's fine to talk about potential reasons for this kind of attack.

……….  

Lol Ragga, as soon as you arrive in a thread you always home in on my posts & correct me.
Heaven knows what I'd do without you to guide me and keep showing me the error of my ways.  Laughing

Yes ok its ''fine'' to discuss the news but shouldn't it be done in a grown up, appropriate tone.
Why do you think the mod had a word with him????   Christchurch Shootings 265384880
He was danger of slipping into  a level of frivolity and insensitivity which would shame this site.

Now come and correct me some more, as this seems to be your hobby.

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Post by Jules on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:27 am

An announcement of a death is an obituary, whatever else it is.

But rather than home in on the accuracy of the word obituary can you not see I was just trying to convey the sentiments of seriousness & sadness at such carnage?  Christchurch Shootings 2190311264

I did also said it was ''day one''. IE too soon for frivolousness. Again [for the sake of accuracy] I don't mean the entire day should be serious but surely the initial comments should be respectful?

Experienced posters always remember to show some sympathy to the innocent dead, before they start their games - sorry, ''discussion''.

Too much eagerness to score points can strip us of all common decency and humanity.


-------------------------------------
When Thatcher died the people who posted negative things about her were severely reprimanded - and it was not even ''day one'' - even a week after she died people were mauled for saying anything negative about her - a figurehead whose decisions ruined the entire lives of so many people in north.

We were told it was disrespectful and that it was not "fine" to discuss it and that we should all jolly well shut up.

Strange how forum folk move their moral compasses back & forth like goalposts. confused

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:33 am

There's a difference between people saying they'd like to dance on Mrs Thatcher's grave, and what Smelly said. He's discussing the incident, and he wasn't pulled up by a mod - he was told not to go too far, which he didn't do.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:37 am

Maybe this will make people less complacent. They didn't expect that kind of thing in NZ, but neither do people expect it in the UK in smaller towns. People should be vigilent everywhere. I remember reporting a bag being left in a supermarket, but nobody seemed bothered about it.

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Post by Jules on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:37 am

Do mods spontaneously tell people not to go too far?

I post with sensitivity when it matters and they have never found it necessary to remind me not to go too far.

Hey ho.

Peace!

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:40 am

HoratioTarr wrote:It's all the over the newspapers that the guy at the door to the mosque called out , Welcome Brother, or some such.   I watched that video twice in it's entirety and nobody said that.   You see the man in the mosque doorway turn to see the shooter with his gun raised, and then he gets shot.   He doesn't say a word.   Why would he?   You'd say Welcome brother, to someone pointing a gun at you?   More media manipulation.

Yes, that does seem unlikely. Tarrant was carrying and pointing the gun as he approached the door, so it would have been obvious that he was up to no good.

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Post by Jules on Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:41 am

Oh btw personally I never said anything OTT about Thatcher.

I'd never use such extreme language as 'dancing on anyone's grave'.

But yes I did criticise her decisions.

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