Republicans (finally) shut up about election fraud now that one of their own's been caught doing it

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

RALEIGH, N.C. — Republican politicians across the country have for years railed against the threat of voter fraud. Some have made unproven claims about how rampant it has become in order to pass voter ID laws and open sweeping investigations. The sanctity of the vote, they have said, must be protected at all costs.

But when a hard-fought congressional election in North Carolina — in which a Republican candidate appeared to narrowly beat his Democratic opponent — was overturned this week because of election fraud by a Republican political operative, the party was measured, and largely muted, in its response.

The state party chairman, Robin Hayes, issued a statement after officials ordered a new election calling the affair “a tremendously difficult situation for all involved.” National Republicans have been mostly mum. Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon, who has made election fraud one of the hallmarks of his administration, was quiet on Twitter, although on Friday, facing reporters at the Oval Office, he condemned fraud — “all of it, and that includes North Carolina.”

Mark Harris, the Republican nominee, had eked out a 905-vote lead over Dan McCready. But the North Carolina Board of Elections refused to certify Mr. Harris as the winner and opened an investigation into irregularities. This week, the five-member board, made up of Republicans and Democrats, convened an evidentiary hearing in Raleigh at which witnesses described a voter-turnout effort that relied on the rogue collection of absentee ballots.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/us/republican-voter-fraud.html

Oh, and whatever happened to that Trump commission on voter fraud?

A review of documents has shown White House claims to have unearthed “substantial evidence” of voter fraud were false, according to a junior member of Donald Trump’s short-lived commission on election integrity.

Matt Dunlap, the top elections official in Maine, said he had examined 1,800 commission documents that were denied to him while he served and that he had since obtained through a court order. He found nothing in them to substantiate the claims made by the commission’s vice-chair, Kris Kobach, and the White House when the commission was disbanded in January.

“The sections on evidence of voter fraud are glaringly empty,” Dunlap reported in an official letter to Kobach and the vice-president, Mike Pence, the commission chair. “After months of litigation that should not have been necessary, I can report that the statements by Vice Chair Kobach and the White House were, in fact, false.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/03/documents-disprove-white-house-voter-claims-says-ex-member-of-trump-commission

Funny how these stories get "dropped" from the conversation sometimes, isn't it?

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:16 pm

Maddog wrote:Politicians are desperate. But less desperate when they can convince fools that one party has the market on ethical behavior cornered.

Refuse to be a fool.

No, you are just not thinking things through. You're like a child who says his toys are the reason why he's not happy. I think I'll smash them.

Politics is about motives and incentives. What you are attracted to (incentive) will move you (motivation). You are frustrated. You just want to throw your toys into one pile, and piss on them all. So you do.

But a more cautious--a more discerning man--will investigate each piece, to see what motivates it. Instead of saying all politicians are liars, he will look to what situation will motivate which person to lie. That the difference between visceral reaction and strategy.

Instead of just having a temper tantrum, try to figure things out. What are the motives and what are the incentives? Keep in mind, as you go along, what are the habits of each piece?

Take the current issue. Republicans are losing popularity, and hence votes (incentive). They need to do something (motive). They try all sorts of voter suppression programs.

Democrats have no such need. It doesn’t even make sense for them to engage in voter suppression.

But, keep in mind that Republicans have a habit of using the mirror-image argument. Ahah, where have I seen that before? So, you understand, they cover themselves and say, democrats are just like me. They all do it.

Analyze it, and it all makes sense. That’s what is giong on here.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:22 pm

Maddog wrote:LOS ANGELES (AP) — LOS Angeles County prosecutors have charged nine people with felonies alleging they offered money and cigarettes to homeless people on LA's Skid Row in exchange for false and forged signatures on ballot petitions and voter registration forms.
The office of District Attorney Jackie Lacey says in a statement Tuesday the alleged offenses occurred during the 2016 and 2018 election cycles.
Five of the nine defendants were arraigned Tuesday in Superior Court.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2018-11-20/alleged-voter-fraud-scheme-used-los-angeles-homeless




And it happens everywhere.  


Not even the same thing

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:


What pipe dream do you want to believe in?

Nazism/Stalism or a future?

Nice slogans, didge.  But you're not addressing the real problem, are you?

I said that one must kill the disease, before you heal the body.  You want to leap over that part, and go directly to Pollyannaville.

Until you address the real issue, it's all words.  Republicans (finally)  shut  up  about election fraud now that one  of their own's been caught doing it - Page 2 1177314732


I am addressing the very fact you are no better than Trump

You wish to divide the US and even admit to wanting caliexit

The worst part is you are not better than trump that seeing people a disease based on their beliefs, just as he does

Yes Hitler made the same claim against the Jews, slaves, disabled and homosexual, basing them as a disease

So you will forgive me, if I rightly place you alongside him as a potential mass murderer

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Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:20 pm

Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:LOS ANGELES (AP) — LOS Angeles County prosecutors have charged nine people with felonies alleging they offered money and cigarettes to homeless people on LA's Skid Row in exchange for false and forged signatures on ballot petitions and voter registration forms.
The office of District Attorney Jackie Lacey says in a statement Tuesday the alleged offenses occurred during the 2016 and 2018 election cycles.
Five of the nine defendants were arraigned Tuesday in Superior Court.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2018-11-20/alleged-voter-fraud-scheme-used-los-angeles-homeless




And it happens everywhere.  


Not even the same thing

Felony charges against those involved would suggest it's sorta a big deal.

In any event, I cited several examples. You can take the Quill approach that only one party does It, or not.


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Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:Politicians are desperate. But less desperate when they can convince fools that one party has the market on ethical behavior cornered.  

Refuse to be a fool.

No, you are just not thinking things through.  You're like a child who says his toys are the reason why he's not happy.  I think I'll smash them.

Politics is about motives and incentives.  What you are attracted to (incentive) will move you (motivation).  You are frustrated.  You just want to throw your toys into one pile, and piss on them all.  So you do.

But a more cautious--a more discerning man--will investigate each piece, to see what motivates it.  Instead of saying all politicians are liars, he will look to what situation will motivate which person to lie.  That the difference between visceral reaction and strategy.

Instead of just having a temper tantrum, try to figure things out.  What are the motives and what are the incentives?  Keep in mind, as you go along, what are the habits of each piece?

Take the current issue.  Republicans are losing popularity, and hence votes (incentive).  They need to do something (motive).  They try all sorts of voter suppression programs.

Democrats have no such need.  It doesn’t even make sense for them to engage in voter suppression.

But, keep in mind that Republicans have a habit of using the mirror-image argument.  Ahah, where have I seen that before?  So, you understand, they cover themselves and say, democrats are just like me.  They all do it.

Analyze it, and it all makes sense.  That’s what is giong on here.

Both sides do it.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:23 pm

Maddog wrote:
Thor wrote:


Not even the same thing

Felony charges against those involved would suggest it's sorta a big deal.  

In any event, I cited several examples. You can take the Quill approach that only one party does It, or not.  


So not even the same thing

Its an allegation

Not against political officials

I take the view you cannot cite a single case

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Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:26 pm

Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Felony charges against those involved would suggest it's sorta a big deal.  

In any event, I cited several examples. You can take the Quill approach that only one party does It, or not.  


So not even the same thing

Its an allegation

Not against political officials

I take the view you cannot cite a single case

Take that view. I'm not giving you anymore to ignore.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:28 pm

Maddog wrote:
Thor wrote:

So not even the same thing

Its an allegation

Not against political officials

I take the view you cannot cite a single case

Take that view.  I'm not giving you anymore to ignore.  

I will because you never gave anything that was the exact same

Some cases that were allegations and by people not officials of the party

How about you understand your first point never had a bases

When it does I will happily conceed and I mean that

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Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:29 pm

Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Take that view.  I'm not giving you anymore to ignore.  

I will because you never gave anything that was the exact same

Some cases that were allegations and by people not officials of the party

How about you understand your first point never had a bases

When it does I will happily conceed and I mean that

I gave you cases of voter fraud that led to arrests and felony indictments.

You chose to ignore them.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:34 pm

Maddog wrote:
Thor wrote:

I will because you never gave anything that was the exact same

Some cases that were allegations and by people not officials of the party

How about you understand your first point never had a bases

When it does I will happily conceed and I mean that

I gave you cases of voter fraud that led to arrests and felony indictments.  

You chose to ignore them.  

You gave me cases that were allegations, by non-party officals

The case of the thread was by a party official

Can you not see the major difference?

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Post by The Devil, You Know on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:35 pm

Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Felony charges against those involved would suggest it's sorta a big deal.  

In any event, I cited several examples. You can take the Quill approach that only one party does It, or not.  


So not even the same thing

Its an allegation

Not against political officials

I take the view you cannot cite a single case
wasn't that black woman in broward county suspended once for facilitating voter fraud before the latest who haa.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:38 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thor wrote:

So not even the same thing

Its an allegation

Not against political officials

I take the view you cannot cite a single case
wasn't that black woman in broward county suspended once for facilitating voter fraud before the latest who haa.

What democrat offical convicted?

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Post by The Devil, You Know on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:04 pm

Thor wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
wasn't that black woman in broward county suspended once for facilitating voter fraud before the latest who haa.

What democrat offical convicted?
I cant be arsed to google her  now. Not Broward county, that was the sheriff who was derelict in his duty. there was a big fuss about it recently

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:07 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thor wrote:

What democrat offical convicted?
I cant be arsed to google her  now. Not Broward county, that was the sheriff who was derelict in his duty. there was a big fuss about it recently

So basically you are talking shit then?

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Post by The Devil, You Know on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:09 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thor wrote:

What democrat offical convicted?
I cant be arsed to google her  now. Not Broward county, that was the sheriff who was derelict in his duty. there was a big fuss about it recently
sorry it was broward country
seems they have a lot of issues there

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/30713-amid-allegations-of-fraud-broward-county-election-supervisor-resigns

brenda snipes was the official

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:11 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
I cant be arsed to google her  now. Not Broward county, that was the sheriff who was derelict in his duty. there was a big fuss about it recently
sorry it was broward country
seems they have a lot of issues there

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/30713-amid-allegations-of-fraud-broward-county-election-supervisor-resigns

brenda snipes was the official

Republicans (finally)  shut  up  about election fraud now that one  of their own's been caught doing it - Page 2 3489511464

New American?

So yet another allegation

Where is the conviction?

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Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:15 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
I cant be arsed to google her  now. Not Broward county, that was the sheriff who was derelict in his duty. there was a big fuss about it recently
sorry it was broward country
seems they have a lot of issues there

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/30713-amid-allegations-of-fraud-broward-county-election-supervisor-resigns

brenda snipes was the official


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/419223-scott-suspends-brenda-snipes-over-widespread-issues-with-voting

Brenda Snipes was basucally removed from office.  

I think it was for being too ethical.   Razz

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Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:16 pm

Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I gave you cases of voter fraud that led to arrests and felony indictments.  

You chose to ignore them.  

You gave me cases that were allegations, by non-party officals

The case of the thread was by a party official

Can you not see the major difference?


You will see what you want to see.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:18 pm

Maddog wrote:
Thor wrote:

You gave me cases that were allegations, by non-party officals

The case of the thread was by a party official

Can you not see the major difference?


You will see what you want to see.

I see you not offer one shred of evidence for your claim

If you had a conviction by an offical i would happily conceed

You failed to do that and have had over a day of using google and still found no gotcha

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Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:21 pm

Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:


You will see what you want to see.

I see you not offer one shred of evidence for your claim

If you had a conviction by an offical i would happily conceed

You failed to do that and have had over a day of using google and still found no gotcha
I gave you examples of election fraud. You dont want to see it.  Its OK.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:22 pm

Maddog wrote:
Thor wrote:

I see you not offer one shred of evidence for your claim

If you had a conviction by an offical i would happily conceed

You failed to do that and have had over a day of using google and still found no gotcha
I gave you examples of election fraud. You dont want to see it.  Its OK.

You gave me examples of allegations

How is tha the same?

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Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:26 pm

Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:
I gave you examples of election fraud. You dont want to see it.  Its OK.

You gave me examples of allegations

How is tha the same?

Give them a chance to get through the courts.  

Who was arrested and charged in NC?

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:28 pm

Maddog wrote:
Thor wrote:

You gave me examples of allegations

How is tha the same?

Give them a chance to get through the courts.  

Who was arrested and charged in NC?

I will give them a chance and you to come back with them

Until then, you have no case buddy

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Post by Maddog on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:38 pm

Thor wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Give them a chance to get through the courts.  

Who was arrested and charged in NC?

I will give them a chance and you to come back with them

Until then, you have no case buddy
So no arrests or charges yet? 

Guess that means nothing happened.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:41 pm

Maddog wrote:
Thor wrote:

I will give them a chance and you to come back with them

Until then, you have no case buddy
So no arrests or charges yet? 

Guess that means nothing happened.

I guess not

Well done

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:44 pm

Thor wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Nice slogans, didge.  But you're not addressing the real problem, are you?

I said that one must kill the disease, before you heal the body.  You want to leap over that part, and go directly to Pollyannaville.

Until you address the real issue, it's all words.  Republicans (finally)  shut  up  about election fraud now that one  of their own's been caught doing it - Page 2 1177314732


I am addressing the very fact you are no better than Trump

You wish to divide the US and even admit to wanting caliexit

The worst part is you are not better than trump that seeing people a disease based on their beliefs, just as he does

Yes Hitler made the same claim against the Jews, slaves, disabled and homosexual, basing them as a disease

So you will forgive me, if I rightly place you alongside him as a potential mass murderer

Me? Trump? That's a weird association. I am not an agent of a foreign enemy...and Russia is still the enemy. (Trump would cozy up to Iran if he wanted bliss in the world...but let us not side-bar on tangentials.)

If I am dividing the nation, it is only for constructive purposes. Trump is simply Putin's stooge, and his every aim is destructive because Putin’s aim is destructive. Proving that it is not the same, Trump is also picking fights with NATO, Germany, Mexico, Oz, China and No. Korea. He wants to abandon our allies in Syria and Afghanistan. He has a whole panoply of separations in mind.

I'm only suggesting a single division, the cleavage of which has existed since before our Revolutionary War. Geographically, as well as culturally, the south and north have never been a united states. The legacy of the north has moved to include the Pacific Coast.

It's a 'natural' division, that was always there.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:46 pm

Maddog wrote:
Thor wrote:

You gave me examples of allegations

How is tha the same?

Give them a chance to get through the courts.  

Who was arrested and charged in NC?

Looks like that guy Dowless is looking at some serious time, both state and federal.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:49 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:


I am addressing the very fact you are no better than Trump

You wish to divide the US and even admit to wanting caliexit

The worst part is you are not better than trump that seeing people a disease based on their beliefs, just as he does

Yes Hitler made the same claim against the Jews, slaves, disabled and homosexual, basing them as a disease

So you will forgive me, if I rightly place you alongside him as a potential mass murderer

Me?  Trump?  That's a weird association.  I am not an agent of a foreign enemy...and Russia is still the enemy.  (Trump would cozy up to Iran if he wanted bliss in the world...but let us not side-bar on tangentials.)

If I am dividing the nation, it is only for constructive purposes.  Trump is simply Putin's stooge, and his every aim is destructive because Putin’s aim is destructive.  Proving that it is not the same, Trump is also picking fights with NATO, Germany, Mexico, Oz, China and No. Korea.  He wants to abandon our allies in Syria and Afghanistan.  He has a whole panoply of separations in mind.

I'm only suggesting a single division, the cleavage of which has existed since before our Revolutionary War.  Geographically, as well as culturally, the south and north have never been a united states.  The legacy of the north has moved to include the Pacific Coast.

It's a 'natural' division, that was always there.

Hardly wiered when you live by the same poor identity politics

Odd that you say foreign agent, when you look at the south as a foreign enemy and want your state to become Independent

So you are tying yourself up in knots over your own views

Trump is dividing the nation and so ae you, when what is needed is people uniting Americans. Not dividing them and you wish to divide yourself from the vast majority of Americans

You have always wnat to get out ot Syria, Afghanistan etc

I am suggesting you stop being at odds with your fellow Americans and start working together for a better future

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:26 pm

Didge wrote:Hardly wiered when you live by the same poor identity politics

Odd that you say foreign agent, when you look at the south as a foreign enemy and want your state to become Independent

So you are tying yourself up in knots over your own views

My point was to show differences between my thesis, and Trump's puppet show.  These other rabbit holes you climb into are opportunist points that go nowhere.

The message is, I have a way to clean up America.  She is dirty, yes.  She is anti-democratic.  She is racist in the extreme.  She is lawless, with special privileges for special people.  She believes in torture, rape and concentration camps.  But all of these plagues arise, and are grouped around a single geographical region: the south.

The reasons why the south came to be the loci of American evil is complex, and has to do with the inhumane premises of the southern culture.  But, I don't really care.  I simply care to take advantage of the fact that so much evil is concentrated in this one place.  I found the nest!  Excise them, and make the nation an infinitely better place in a single stroke.

None of this involves violence.  As did the UK with the Scotland question, put it to a vote.  We think southerners are knuckledraggers, and they think we are feather-dusters.  Everyone, on both sides, will vote yes.  Let them have their wars and white supremacy, and we'll have our virtue and prosperity.
cheers


Last edited by Original Quill on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Hardly wiered when you live by the same poor identity politics

Odd that you say foreign agent, when you look at the south as a foreign enemy and want your state to become Independent

So you are tying yourself up in knots over your own views

My point was to show differences between my thesis, and Trump's puppet show.  These other rabbit holes you climb into are opportunist points that go nowhere.

The message is, I have a way to clean up America.  She is dirty, yes.  She is anti-democratic.  She is racist in the extreme.  She is lawless, with special privileges for special people.  But all of these plagues arise, and are grouped around a single geographical region: the south.

The reasons why the south came to be the loci of American evil is complex, and has to do with the inhumane premises of the southern culture.  But, I don't really care.  I simply care to take advantage of the fact that so much evil is concentrated in this one place.  I found the nest!  Excise them, and make the nation an infinitely better place in a single stroke.

None of this involves violence.  As did the UK with the Scotland question, put it to a vote.  We think southerners are knuckledraggers, and they think we are feather-dusters.  Everyone, on both sides, will vote yes.  Let them have their wars and white supremacy, and we'll have our prosperity.
cheers


A thesis?

More like Mein Kampf, based on a political class hate, with some choice words swapped. From Jew to Conservative/Southerner

America is about the most democratic country going, more so than most. It has problems like many, but if it was racist, then the laws would not protect people from racism. You see this is a continual lie peddalled by the left. As why have we not see any law changed that protects the rights of people from racism? The main reason is because you sterotype millions based on geography and not on reality. Yes there is some racism in the US, but its not to the extent you claim. As the US has come on leaps and bounds since cvil rights. Its why I laugh when Trump claims to make America great again and in reality its making Americans Gag again.

You see, we we even saw a paper that was a set up published and peer reviewed that used Mein kampf. Which changed the word of Jew to men. It shows the insanity of those on the left that they will buy into any bullshit. This was based around gender studies and how it shows that extreme lefties will buy into any hate filled view, if it fits their narative. You do the same, how you collectively cast the entire south based on sterotypes. Which considering you are against people doing the same against African Americans. You use the same poor methodology.

This is why I cannot take you seriously and why your views are as harmful and hateful as Trump

At the end of the day you are exposing yourself as a complete xenophobe

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:37 pm

Didge wrote:More like Mein Kampf, based on a political class hate, with some choice words swapped. From Jew to Conservative

Association fallacy? You believe all political writings are linked to Hitler? Without any justification?

To respond would be gratuitous.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:39 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:More like Mein Kampf, based on a political class hate, with some choice words swapped. From Jew to Conservative

Association fallacy?  You believe all political writings are linked to Hitler?  Without any justification?

To respond would be gratuitous.


Its a very simple easy connection

You just castigated people from the south, did you not, based on geography?

Swap Jew, with Southerners and you are there

The problem is Quill, you think you are a champion, but are exactly like trump

You dont look to bridge divides, but look to build walls between people

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:50 pm

Didge wrote:America is about the most democratic country going, more so than most.

In this century alone, two of the three presidents have been instated by undemocratic means. They were outvoted by their opponent.

The total vote differential between the two parties for elections to the House of Representatives in 2016 was 1.2 percent; but the difference in the number of seats is 10.8 percent, giving a total of 21 extra seats to Republicans.

In the Senate, the state of Wyoming (pop. 498,703) has two senators. The state of California (pop. 35.11-million) also has two senators. Does giving under half-a-million, the same legislative power as 35.11-million, sound like democracy to you?


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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:America is about the most democratic country going, more so than most.

In this century alone, two of the three presidents have been instated by undemocratic means.  They were outvoted by their opponent.

The total vote differential between the two parties for elections to the House of Representatives in 2016 was 1.2 percent; but the difference in the number of seats is 10.8 percent, giving a total of 21 extra seats to Republicans.

In the Senate, the state of Wyoming (pop. 498,703) has two senators.  The state of California (pop. 35.11-million) also has two senators.  Does giving under half-a-million, the same legislative power as 35.11-million, sound like democracy to you?



Well that is bullshit based on the US system

What you are saying is the state system should not count and higher population in one of two states should count

That would make the United states redundent as a system and undemocratic

As what you are saying is where a candidate has a clear advantage on population in states with a high population, that should count more than other states. You are thus making other states redundement to the US state system

The US has a system that works based on its unity of states, not population within states


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Post by Original Quill on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Didge wrote:You just castigated people from the south, did you not, based on geography?

Quite the contrary. I said that the south was coincidentally coterminous with the evils in America, but I would accept that.

You know the difference. Stop chasing rabbit holes.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Post by phildidge on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:You just castigated people from the south, did you not, based on geography?

Quite the contrary.  I said that the south was coincidentally coterminous with the evils in America, but I would accept that.

You know the difference.  Stop chasing rabbit holes.


I mean that is even more bullshit

As the whole US is complicit in the ethnic cleansing of native American Indians through history

Your whole argument stems on a time frame how the North gave up slavery before the South. Yet negating the fact, the North used to hold and have slaves themselves

At best your argument is idiotic and ignores factual history. Its also revisionist crap that ignores the wrongs of the entire original 13 states

You need to stop going against someone that will always know more about your own history than you

You try to ignore the crimes of the North and only blame the South for wrongs of the past

That again is as bad as Holocaust denial

I mean even during WW2 you had internment camps for Japanese Americans, but not white German Americans?

How was that to do with the South?

What is worse about all of this. Is you actually do not learn from the past, but use parts of the past. As a weapon to demonise an entire people, based on geography. How is that not the same as any other xenophobic bullshit?

The way we learn from the past is to learn from this. Not use this as a weapon to demonise people today. As that is making all the same mistakes from the past, by creating new ones.

You need to stop being like Trump, because you are emphatically two peas in a pod, based on hate. The only difference is who you hate and blame. Which again descends back to the book Mein KampF,. As that is what you are taking your main thesis from. A view to blame others for all the problems in American society today. Its how exactly the Far right blame anyone non-wqhite for the problems in the US. Its no different to how Hitler capitalised on the hate of Jews, slavs, homosexuals, Communists, the disabled, Roma etc, all people he considered to blame for all Germany's problems. You are just one in a long lime of people using the same bullshit hate arguments, never learning from them.

What the US needs is unity, not more divide

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:33 am

Didge wrote:Your whole argument stems on a time frame how the North gave up slavery before the South. Yet negating the fact, the North used to hold and have slaves themselves

There really is no time frame in history. Time is alive, and continually moving. That's what you miss when you argue single points in time.

The point as between the north and south is that the north never had an economy based upon cash cropping and slave labor. Northerners were slave holders, very much like English slave holders at the time. I hesitate to say they were treated better, but they were not chattel locked into the economy as they were in the south.

That allowed northerners to turn on the institution of slavery much sooner, and more passionately. That also created the Civil War, and in many was widened the divide between the northern ethos and the southern ethos.

But I said I was going to skip that analysis. Suffice it to say that most of the ugly in the Ugly American is centered in the south.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:13 pm

Maddog wrote:LOS ANGELES (AP) — LOS Angeles County prosecutors have charged nine people with felonies alleging they offered money and cigarettes to homeless people on LA's Skid Row in exchange for false and forged signatures on ballot petitions and voter registration forms.
The office of District Attorney Jackie Lacey says in a statement Tuesday the alleged offenses occurred during the 2016 and 2018 election cycles.
Five of the nine defendants were arraigned Tuesday in Superior Court.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2018-11-20/alleged-voter-fraud-scheme-used-los-angeles-homeless




And it happens everywhere.  

That doesn't say which party benefited.

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Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:51 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Maddog wrote:LOS ANGELES (AP) — LOS Angeles County prosecutors have charged nine people with felonies alleging they offered money and cigarettes to homeless people on LA's Skid Row in exchange for false and forged signatures on ballot petitions and voter registration forms.
The office of District Attorney Jackie Lacey says in a statement Tuesday the alleged offenses occurred during the 2016 and 2018 election cycles.
Five of the nine defendants were arraigned Tuesday in Superior Court.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2018-11-20/alleged-voter-fraud-scheme-used-los-angeles-homeless




And it happens everywhere.  

That doesn't say which party benefited.
 No it doesn't. 

I'm willing to make a bet based on the location and the tactics used.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:15 pm

From Los Angeles Times:

LA Times wrote: the defendants approached homeless people on skid row and asked them to forge signatures on state ballot measure petitions and voter registration forms, the district attorney’s office said.

No word on which petitions, or which party they were working for.  If they were pre-signing voter registration forms, my guess it was in preparation for the scam, not the actual scam itself.

This is typical of the immense voter fraud operations that Republicans launch every election.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:04 pm

Maddog wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Maddog wrote:LOS ANGELES (AP) — LOS Angeles County prosecutors have charged nine people with felonies alleging they offered money and cigarettes to homeless people on LA's Skid Row in exchange for false and forged signatures on ballot petitions and voter registration forms.
The office of District Attorney Jackie Lacey says in a statement Tuesday the alleged offenses occurred during the 2016 and 2018 election cycles.
Five of the nine defendants were arraigned Tuesday in Superior Court.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2018-11-20/alleged-voter-fraud-scheme-used-los-angeles-homeless




And it happens everywhere.  

That doesn't say which party benefited.
 No it doesn't. 

I'm willing to make a bet based on the location and the tactics used.

The tactics are pure Karl Rove, actually.

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Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:59 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Maddog wrote:
 No it doesn't. 

I'm willing to make a bet based on the location and the tactics used.

The tactics are pure Karl Rove, actually.


Nah.  Not even close.  Using the homeless to vote in exchange for something of value is the pervue of the dems.  

That's their turf.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:51 pm

Dems don't rig elections.  That's the stuff of weaker parties, trying to catch up:

Registered Democrats: 72-million.
Registered Republicans: 55-million.
Registered Independents et al: 42-million.

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_registered_Democrats_are_there_in_the_US

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Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:Dems don't rig elections.  That's the stuff of weaker parties, trying to catch up:

Registered Democrats: 72-million.
Registered Republicans: 55-million.
Registered Independents et al: 42-million.

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_registered_Democrats_are_there_in_the_US

Politicians and their operatives lie, cheat and steal.


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Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:54 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Dems don't rig elections.  That's the stuff of weaker parties, trying to catch up:

Registered Democrats: 72-million.
Registered Republicans: 55-million.
Registered Independents et al: 42-million.

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_registered_Democrats_are_there_in_the_US

Politicians and their operatives lie, cheat and steal.

I understand, Misery needs company.

But it isn't true.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Politicians and their operatives lie, cheat and steal.  

I understand,  Misery needs company.  

But it isn't true.

Politicians and their operatives lie, cheat and steal.


_________________
pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Original Quill on Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:05 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I understand,  Misery needs company.  

But it isn't true.

Politicians and their operatives lie, cheat and steal.


Nah...only Republicans.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
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Post by Maddog on Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Politicians and their operatives lie, cheat and steal.


Nah...only Republicans.

California state Sen. Leland Yee (D-San Francisco) — one of the state’s strongest advocates for gun control — was arrested Wednesday on charges that include scheming to defraud citizens of honest services and conspiracy to illegally traffic firearms.

Yee, 65, was seized at his home during a string of raids that capped an FBI public corruption probe. The San Francisco investigation focused on Raymond “Shrimp Boy” Chow, who federal authorities said is the leader of Chee Kung Tong, or CKT, a social organization involved in what an FBI affidavit calls “criminal enterprise.” FBI agents discovered during the investigation that Yee and his political consultant, Keith Jackson, 49, were involved with Chow and his associates at CKT, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/26/leland-yee-gun-traffickin_n_5038152.html

This may cover lying, cheating and stealing.

_________________
pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:03 am

Yes, Raymond “Shrimp Boy” Chow is a Hong Kong-born felon with ties to a San Francisco Chinatown street gang and an organized crime syndicate, including the American branch of the Hong Kong-based triad Wo Hop To and the Hop Sing Boys.  In 2006, Chow became the leader of the Ghee Kung Tong (CKT), basically a Chinese mafia gang.

In 2014, Chow along with 28 other defendants--including former Senator Leland Yee--were indicted for racketeering, money laundering, and a host of other alleged criminal activities.  Four years ago Yee pleaded guilty. Mad

Old news.  Identical story as Donald Trump--racketeering, money laundering, many other laws--only DOJ says Trump cannot be indicted as president.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
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Post by Maddog on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:43 am

Original Quill wrote:Yes, Raymond “Shrimp Boy” Chow is a Hong Kong-born felon with ties to a San Francisco Chinatown street gang and an organized crime syndicate, including the American branch of the Hong Kong-based triad Wo Hop To and the Hop Sing Boys.  In 2006, Chow became the leader of the Ghee Kung Tong (CKT), basically a Chinese mafia gang.

In 2014, Chow along with 28 other defendants--including former Senator Leland Yee--were indicted for racketeering, money laundering, and a host of other alleged criminal activities.  Four years ago Yee pleaded guilty.   Mad

Old news.  Identical story as Donald Trump--racketeering, money laundering, many other laws--only DOJ says Trump cannot be indicted as president.


Maybe they can share a cell together? 

At least you now agree with me that members of both parties are capable of criminal behavior.

_________________
pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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