A Barrister actually argued this - Chabloz’s barrister: Nazis ‘didn’t deliberately murder’ Anne Frank

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Post by phildidge on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:32 am

Campaigner Gideon Falter highlighted a section of one of the songs that he claimed made reference to a conspiracy theory that the teenager’s father, Otto Frank, had fabricated the work for personal gain.

The disputed songs focuses on the experiences of Irene Zysblat, Elie Wiesel and Anne Frank, which Chabloz claims to have debunked.

The song lyrics read: ‘My name is Otto Frank and my daughter’s name is Anne / The poor girl died of typhus at Bergen-Belsen camp / She wrote an introduction / To her famous diary / The rest was penned by Levin then published by me.’

Levin refers to Meyer Levin, who Mr Falter explained had worked with Otto Frank to produce a dramatisation of his murdered daughter’s life.

Mr Falter said: ‘This refers to the famous diary of Anne Frank, which is used as an educational resource. Anne Frank penned her diary whilst in hiding, when she and her family were discovered she was unfortunately killed.’

Mr Mulholland asked: ‘From your own knowledge or investigation of far right political groupings, does Anne Frank have any particular significance?’

‘Anne Frank is picked upon as a means of showing that the entire Holocaust was a fake. The entire song is delivered in this mock Eastern European accent which are typical of the accents of Holocaust survivors.

‘This is yet another means to try and demean them and mock them.’

Adrian Davies, for the applicant, questioned Mr Falter’s suggestion that the accent was mocking by claiming that the Franks were Dutch.

However, judge Christopher Hehir corrected him, telling the court that the family had in fact fled their native Germany.

Addressing Mr Falter, Mr Davies said: ‘You’ve taken considerable exemption to the words of the song (((survivors))).’

The barrister again attempted to undermine Mr Falter’s assertions, saying: ‘She died of typhus, there is no dispute. They didn’t deliberately murder her. They might be responsible for her death by mistreatment.’

At this point judge Hehir again interjected, saying: ‘I’m not sure that’s your strongest point Mr Davies.

‘The suggestion, I think, was that Anne Frank’s death was an unfortunate accident along with her sister and her mother.’

Mr Davies rejected that summary of his argument, saying: ‘That is not the suggestion.’

The barrister went on to suggest that Mr Falter was offended by any questioning of the official narrative of the Holocaust.

‘I think it is important that there is proper academic scrutiny of the Holocaust so that humanity can learn from it,’ replied the witness.

Mr Davies asked: ‘Is your objection to the message or the manner in which it is delivered.’

‘Both,’ replied Mr Falter.

Adrian Davies has in the past acted for discredited historian and Holocaust denier David Irving.


https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/chablozs-barrister-nazis-didnt-deliberately-murder-anne-frank/

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Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:37 am

Is it me, but has the world seemed to forget (maybe in the case of younger people, never knew) the death and destruction caused by socialism and fascism?

It's like people keep trying to whitewash the death and destruction caused by those two systems.

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Post by phildidge on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:45 am

Maddog wrote:Is it me, but has the world seemed to forget (maybe in the case of younger people, never knew) the death and destruction caused by socialism and fascism?

It's like people keep trying to whitewash the death and destruction caused by those two systems.    


+1

Night

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:58 am

Maddog wrote:Is it me, but has the world seemed to forget (maybe in the case of younger people, never knew) the death and destruction caused by socialism and fascism?

It's like people keep trying to whitewash the death and destruction caused by those two systems.    
Rolling Eyes

Once again,  you continue to confuse Socialism with Communism..

Your galloping ignorance undermines your spurious claims right from the beginning..

"Socialim" as an economic idealogy is a "broad church", ranging all the way from an autocratic communist military dictatorship like North Korea at one extreme (not a proper "socialist" state..),  to national healthcare schemes in democratic "mixed economies",  and worker-owned co-ops at the other..

Conflating communism with "socialism" is just as stupid as claiming that fascism represents all capitalist-centric systems.

You and Dodge can't help yourselves here, can you --  you just have to keep on demonstrating your economic and political ignorance to the rest of us  !!!

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Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:08 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:Is it me, but has the world seemed to forget (maybe in the case of younger people, never knew) the death and destruction caused by socialism and fascism?

It's like people keep trying to whitewash the death and destruction caused by those two systems.    
Rolling Eyes

Once again,  you continue to confuse Socialism with Communism..

Your galloping ignorance undermines your spurious claims right from the beginning..

"Socialim" as an economic idealogy is a "broad church", ranging all the way from an autocratic communist military dictatorship like North Korea at one extreme (not a proper "socialist" state..),  to national healthcare schemes in democratic "mixed economies",  and worker-owned co-ops at the other..

Conflating communism with "socialism" is just as stupid as claiming that fascism represents all capitalist-centric systems.

You and Dodge can't help yourselves here, can you --  you just have to keep on demonstrating your economic and political ignorance to the rest of us  !!!

States like Sweden, that tax their very successful capitalist systems are not socialist. It's capitalism that produces the wealth.

Ancient Rome had taxes, armies, roads and welfare. They were not socialist.

I will not describe capitalist countries as socialist. If an economy is centrally planned and the means of production are commonly owned, then I will call them socialist.

See, you don't get to make up your own definitions. tongue

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Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:11 am

Speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen told students that he had “absolutely no wish to interfere the presidential debate in the US” but nonetheless attempted to set the record straight about his country.

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist

Same goes for Denmark Cool

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:14 am

There has never been a socialist nation. Nations like Sweden, the UK and the United States have employed socialist programs, but they are not wholly socialist.

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Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:18 am

Original Quill wrote:There has never been a socialist nation.  Nations like Sweden, the UK and the United States have employed socialist programs, but they are not wholly socialist.

The Soviets, Chinese, Cubans and several others had state control of the means of production and their economies were centrally planned.

Starvation and hunger were the results.

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Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:21 am

https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking


Look at #178, 179 and 180.

Those are your socialist countries.

And the least economically free.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:25 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:There has never been a socialist nation.  Nations like Sweden, the UK and the United States have employed socialist programs, but they are not wholly socialist.

The Soviets, Chinese, Cubans and several others had state control of the means of production and their economies were centrally planned.

Starvation and hunger were the results.

But they were far from socialist. Control of the means of production--hell, control of anything and everything--might be totalitarian, but it is hardly socialist.

The results of bad government has nothing to do with the system.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:27 am

Maddog wrote:https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking


Look at #178, 179 and 180.

Those are your socialist countries.

And the least economically free.

Heritage Foundation?  Please find a neutral source.  They are as biased as you.

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Post by 'Wolfie on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:43 am

Maddog wrote:https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking


Look at #178, 179 and 180.

Those are your socialist countries.

And the least economically free.

Rolling Eyes

More pure bullshit on your part, Maddog...

There are no genuine "socialist" states in the bottom 50 countries on those rankings..

Interesting to see Hong Kong and Singapore topping their lists, ahead of New Zealand, Australia and Ireland.

Hong Kong is again part of mainland China -- now an "autonomous region", rather than an independant country in it's own right..

Singapore -- now a favoured 'bolt hole' for white collar crims and ex-billionaires, easy on businesses but hard on average workers, and it still manages to have state-contolled healthcare and education systems (with low income taxes, but compensatingly higher sales taxes, levies and duties..).

Makes you wonder about the criteria they use for those tables..

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Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:39 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking


Look at #178, 179 and 180.

Those are your socialist countries.

And the least economically free.

Rolling Eyes

More pure bullshit on your part,  Maddog...

There are no genuine "socialist" states in the bottom 50 countries on those rankings..

Interesting to see Hong Kong and Singapore topping their lists,  ahead of New Zealand, Australia and Ireland.

Hong Kong is again part of mainland China --  now an "autonomous region", rather than an independant country in it's own right..

Singapore --  now a favoured 'bolt hole' for white collar crims and ex-billionaires, easy on businesses but hard on average workers, and it still manages to have state-contolled healthcare and education systems  (with low income taxes, but compensatingly higher sales taxes, levies and duties..).

Makes you wonder about the criteria they use for those tables..

The criteria is spelled out. It will require you to read it though.

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Post by phildidge on Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:42 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Maddog wrote:Is it me, but has the world seemed to forget (maybe in the case of younger people, never knew) the death and destruction caused by socialism and fascism?

It's like people keep trying to whitewash the death and destruction caused by those two systems.    
Rolling Eyes

Once again,  you continue to confuse Socialism with Communism..

Your galloping ignorance undermines your spurious claims right from the beginning..

"Socialim" as an economic idealogy is a "broad church", ranging all the way from an autocratic communist military dictatorship like North Korea at one extreme (not a proper "socialist" state..),  to national healthcare schemes in democratic "mixed economies",  and worker-owned co-ops at the other..

Conflating communism with "socialism" is just as stupid as claiming that fascism represents all capitalist-centric systems.

You and Dodge can't help yourselves here, can you --  you just have to keep on demonstrating your economic and political ignorance to the rest of us  !!!


Communism is a form of Socialism

That is an underniable fact

Where the worst forms of socialism have seen more people die than any other political system, in such a short space of time

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Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:41 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking


Look at #178, 179 and 180.

Those are your socialist countries.

And the least economically free.

Heritage Foundation?  Please find a neutral source.  They are as biased as you.

They aren't actually the source.

Please kiss my ass.

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Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:50 am

Maddog wrote:Speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen told students that he had “absolutely no wish to interfere the presidential debate in the US” but nonetheless attempted to set the record straight about his country.

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist

Same goes for Denmark  Cool

Market replaces the word planned, not socialist Wink 

it is mixed market socialist economy Cool

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Post by veya_victaous on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:55 am

Maddog wrote:Is it me, but has the world seemed to forget (maybe in the case of younger people, never knew) the death and destruction caused by socialism and fascism?

It's like people keep trying to whitewash the death and destruction caused by those two systems.    

it's more the older generation always failed to acknowledge that Capitalism caused as great or greater death and destruction globally
we are no better, in fact we were the even more violent, that is why we won.

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Post by nicko on Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:58 am

Blame the old 'uns again, your good at that aren't you ?
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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:42 pm

Thor wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Rolling Eyes

Once again,  you continue to confuse Socialism with Communism..

Your galloping ignorance undermines your spurious claims right from the beginning..

"Socialim" as an economic idealogy is a "broad church", ranging all the way from an autocratic communist military dictatorship like North Korea at one extreme (not a proper "socialist" state..),  to national healthcare schemes in democratic "mixed economies",  and worker-owned co-ops at the other..

Conflating communism with "socialism" is just as stupid as claiming that fascism represents all capitalist-centric systems.

You and Dodge can't help yourselves here, can you --  you just have to keep on demonstrating your economic and political ignorance to the rest of us  !!!


Communism is a form of Socialism

That is an underniable fact

Where the worst forms of socialism have seen more people die than any other political system, in such a short space of time

Communism has never existed on earth...at least since the demise of the Paris Commune, in 1871. But that wasn't a nation.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:00 pm

nicko wrote:Blame the old 'uns again, your good at that aren't you ?

Veya is absolutely right.  Both capitalism and socialism are a form of collectivism to get over the hump of the industrial revolution, and the elevated cost of tooling (factories and machinery).  Socialists joined directly in organized ownership, while capitalists joined in ownership 'shares', which created corporations, which owned the tools.

Abuses came along when individuals realized they could twist the system to their advantage, restraining trade and forming monopolies.  It occurred much more with capitalism because there was no governance with shares (as the basis of the collectivism).  With shares the only restraint is ownership. A socialist organization could pass regulations, but when the only nexus was shares of ownership the result was the market anarchy we saw in the latter half of the 19th century.

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Post by phildidge on Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:


Communism is a form of Socialism

That is an underniable fact

Where the worst forms of socialism have seen more people die than any other political system, in such a short space of time

Communism has never existed on earth...at least since the demise of the Paris Commune, in 1871.  But that wasn't a nation.

Communism has existed on earth, many times

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Post by phildidge on Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:28 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:Is it me, but has the world seemed to forget (maybe in the case of younger people, never knew) the death and destruction caused by socialism and fascism?

It's like people keep trying to whitewash the death and destruction caused by those two systems.    

it's more the older generation always failed to acknowledge that Capitalism caused as great or greater death and destruction globally
we are no better, in fact we were the even more violent, that is why we won.

She me the connection to capitlaism that was a direct link to violence in policy?

You cant because your view makes no sense

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Post by phildidge on Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:42 pm

What irony we have here.

We have a lawyer deny the holocaust and another lawyer deny Communism has existed, with Communism being respon sible for tens of millions of deaths.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:43 pm

Thor wrote:What irony we have here.

We have a lawyer deny the holocaust and another lawyer deny Communism has existed, with Communism being respon sible for tens of millions of deaths.

I presume you mean Bolshevism.

I think I'll call capitalism, Taoism. The path of understanding Taoism is simply having a rich daddy.

Live life and discover who you are. Your nature is ever changing and is always the same. Don’t try to resolve the various contradictions in life, instead learn acceptance of your nature and ask daddy for more cash when you run out. Wink

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Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:48 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:Is it me, but has the world seemed to forget (maybe in the case of younger people, never knew) the death and destruction caused by socialism and fascism?

It's like people keep trying to whitewash the death and destruction caused by those two systems.    

it's more the older generation always failed to acknowledge that Capitalism caused as great or greater death and destruction globally
we are no better, in fact we were the even more violent, that is why we won.

Yeah. It's fucked up Australia. tongue

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Post by Maddog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:08 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:Speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen told students that he had “absolutely no wish to interfere the presidential debate in the US” but nonetheless attempted to set the record straight about his country.

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist

Same goes for Denmark  Cool

Market replaces the word planned, not socialist Wink 

it is mixed market socialist economy Cool

It replaces the words "planned socialist".

Nice try though.

I sort of thought lying was a bit beneath you. Try not to prove me wrong.

Thanks.

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Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:51 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:What irony we have here.

We have a lawyer deny the holocaust and another lawyer deny Communism has existed, with Communism being respon sible for tens of millions of deaths.

I presume you mean Bolshevism.

I think I'll call capitalism, Taoism.  The path of understanding Taoism is simply having a rich daddy.

Live life and discover who you are. Your nature is ever changing and is always the same. Don’t try to resolve the various contradictions in life, instead learn acceptance of your nature and ask daddy for more cash when you run out.  Wink

No I mean Communism, where one of these was a Communist Bolshevist

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Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:44 am

Thor wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I presume you mean Bolshevism.

I think I'll call capitalism, Taoism.  The path of understanding Taoism is simply having a rich daddy.

Live life and discover who you are. Your nature is ever changing and is always the same. Don’t try to resolve the various contradictions in life, instead learn acceptance of your nature and ask daddy for more cash when you run out.  Wink

No I mean Communism, where one of these was a Communist Bolshevist

There is no such thing as a Communist Bolshevist. One is German, the other is Russian.

Silly boy, maybe you were looking for a Angolan Cossack. Razz

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Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:46 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:

No I mean Communism, where one of these was a Communist Bolshevist

There is no such thing as a Communist Bolshevist.  One is German, the other is Russian.

Silly boy, maybe you were looking for a Angolan Cossack.  Razz


So what was Trotsky and his form of Communism then?

Opps

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Post by veya_victaous on Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:14 am

Thor wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Maddog wrote:Is it me, but has the world seemed to forget (maybe in the case of younger people, never knew) the death and destruction caused by socialism and fascism?

It's like people keep trying to whitewash the death and destruction caused by those two systems.    

it's more the older generation always failed to acknowledge that Capitalism caused as great or greater death and destruction globally
we are no better, in fact we were the even more violent, that is why we won.

She me the connection to capitlaism that was a direct link to violence in policy?

You cant because your view makes no sense

the is only one Economic type that has Nuked a city full of Civilians 

If you can't admit just keep lying to yourself 
don't grow, don't improve if Your too weak to admit the truth.

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Post by veya_victaous on Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:17 am

nicko wrote:Blame the old 'uns again, your good at that aren't you ?

I am not blaming any one you pathetic Snowflake  
You get offended at everything, you have the hide whine about some 20 year old uni student whining when You do it CONSTANTLY 

British kids obviously Didn't fall far from the Whining Tree  Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:18 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Thor wrote:

She me the connection to capitlaism that was a direct link to violence in policy?

You cant because your view makes no sense

the is only one Economic type that has Nuked a city full of Civilians 

If you can't admit just keep lying to yourself 
don't grow, don't improve if Your too weak to admit the truth.


You see that is just gibberish, as that was a war started on the US, by a racist regeme, in the Japanese. That sought conquest, at the expense of capitalism in those nations, through nationalism

So how was capitalism to blame for a rightful decision to use the atomic bomb, by ending a war, saving countless more lives?

There is no link

So try again

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