Liam Neeson...great line to end a career with.

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm

Surely some things are best left unsaid?

Neeson continued: “I went up and down areas with a cosh, hoping I’d be approached by somebody – I’m ashamed to say that – and I did it for maybe a week, hoping some ‘black bastard’ would come out of a pub and have a go at me about something, you know? So that I could … kill him.”


https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/feb/04/liam-neeson-after-a-friend-was-raped-i-wanted-to-kill-a-black-man

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:42 pm

One of my favourite actors too. Sad

I dont believe anyone no matter how self righteous, who claims to have no bad, even evil thoughts, but some things are best left unsaid surely...unless you are having therapy when it's encouraged to torture yourself .
These thoughts are fleeting, probably occurring when our feelings are heightened about something upsetting, we know they are destructive, face them, and they fade.

Why a respected actor, who has been through so much in his life should choose tp speak about this to a journalist (of all people) maybe just to  promote his latest film is madness.

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Post by Vintage on Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:51 pm

A favourite of mine as well. Why he felt the need to say such stuff, especially in the current climate is beyond me.
I agree with you Syl, I doubt there's anyone living in a state of high emotion haven't had similar thoughts and even actions, the fact is nothing actually happened, if it had be a whole different situation. We need to bear in mind the time scale and having grown up in a violent and insecure environment.

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:02 pm

Vintage wrote:A favourite of mine as well. Why he felt the need to say such stuff, especially in the current climate is beyond me.
I agree with you Syl, I doubt there's anyone living in a state of high emotion haven't had similar thoughts and even actions, the fact is nothing actually happened, if it had be a whole different situation. We need to bear in mind the time scale and having grown up in a violent and insecure environment.

Time does change opinions, we only have to think back to when we were kids to realise that.
But most of us, even if we were brought up in the 50's and 60's didn't have those thoughts.
OK, he did because a friend of his was raped by a black man, but his thoughts and actions were very extreme, far better to realise he was wrong (which he has) and NOT make it public.

The other thing is, as a tough guy actor, the role he seems to have slipped into now, surely he has a responsibility to keep racists comments away from his public image. Too many people slavishly want to emulate the people they see on the screen in this celebrity obsessed society we now live in.

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Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:23 pm

He's also being applauded for his honesty. And if you listen to the whole interview, he states how horrified he is for feeling that way.

Former England footballer John Barnes has launched an impassioned defence of Liam Neeson, in light of the actor's comments that he once wandered the streets 'looking for a black b****** to kill' in a misguided rage.

Barnes appeared on Sky News to defend Neeson and said the actor 'deserves a medal' for honesty and for tackling his own unconscious racism 30 years ago.
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Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:25 pm

But of course everyone has jumped straight on the RACIST band wagon without actually putting what he's said in context.

He's admitted his utter shame, and that he was misguided and wrong.
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Post by Vintage on Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:47 pm

I agree about the racist bandwagon. I doubt he'd have felt any different, however wrong it was, if the rapist had been white. I notice no one is condemning the rapist.
He's being incredibly honest and acknowledges how wrong he was but nothing actually happened. How many other people have felt that way when a friend or family member has be been hurt like that, are we honestly saying others haven't been tempted to do similar or actually done it in the heat of the moment.
Still, acknowledging to yourself and maybe your family how wrong you were then and confessing to a journalist, who seems to be saying she didn't expect such reaction, is foolhardy unless he has a desire to be punished by the loss of his career. I think he was just trying to illustrate how humans can be in such circumstances - in line with his role in the film being publicised.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:49 pm

Maybe his admission will open thr door to honest conversation? 



Nah, that's not going to happen.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:36 pm

Syl wrote:One of my favourite actors too. Sad

I dont believe anyone no matter how self righteous, who claims to have no bad, even evil thoughts, but some things are best left unsaid surely...unless you are having therapy when it's encouraged to torture yourself .
These thoughts are fleeting, probably occurring when our feelings are heightened about something upsetting, we know they are destructive, face them, and they fade.

Why a respected actor, who has been through so much in his life should choose tp speak about this to a journalist (of all people) maybe just to  promote his latest film is madness.

I don't know. There are some personalities that harbor these kinds of mind frames. Like sharpening a stick, their childhood is about honing it to a fine point.

And genetically, a Welsh-Irishman has blood that boils easily.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:One of my favourite actors too. Sad

I dont believe anyone no matter how self righteous, who claims to have no bad, even evil thoughts, but some things are best left unsaid surely...unless you are having therapy when it's encouraged to torture yourself .
These thoughts are fleeting, probably occurring when our feelings are heightened about something upsetting, we know they are destructive, face them, and they fade.

Why a respected actor, who has been through so much in his life should choose tp speak about this to a journalist (of all people) maybe just to  promote his latest film is madness.

I don't know.  There are some personalities that harbor these kinds of mind frames.  Like sharpening a stick, their childhood is about honing it to a fine point.

And genetically, a Welsh-Irishman has blood that boils easily.

Ah, he has genetic issues? 

Tell me doc. From a genetic perspective, what are some of the attributes you can assign to people from say Kenya?

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:51 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't know.  There are some personalities that harbor these kinds of mind frames.  Like sharpening a stick, their childhood is about honing it to a fine point.

And genetically, a Welsh-Irishman has blood that boils easily.

Ah, he has genetic issues? 

Tell me doc. From a genetic perspective, what are some of the attributes you can assign to people from say Kenya?

Kenya is a political delineation, not genetic.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:35 pm

He's not racist. It was probably better left unsaid, but it was a natural feeling to have. He didn't act on it, and he realised later that it was wrong and stupid.

I would say the same if a woman hated all men because one mistreated her, or if a black person hated white men because one raped his wife or whoever. It's even possible to hate people with particular name because someone with the same name did something bad. Such feelings eventually pass.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:36 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:One of my favourite actors too. Sad

I dont believe anyone no matter how self righteous, who claims to have no bad, even evil thoughts, but some things are best left unsaid surely...unless you are having therapy when it's encouraged to torture yourself .
These thoughts are fleeting, probably occurring when our feelings are heightened about something upsetting, we know they are destructive, face them, and they fade.

Why a respected actor, who has been through so much in his life should choose tp speak about this to a journalist (of all people) maybe just to  promote his latest film is madness.

I don't know.  There are some personalities that harbor these kinds of mind frames.  Like sharpening a stick, their childhood is about honing it to a fine point.

And genetically, a Welsh-Irishman has blood that boils easily.

I doubt that's a genetic thing, not that I've noticed it's true anyway.

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:32 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:He's not racist. It was probably better left unsaid, but it was a natural feeling to have. He didn't act on it, and he realised later that it was wrong and stupid.

I would say the same if a woman hated all men because one mistreated her, or if a black person hated white men because one raped his wife or whoever. It's even possible to hate people with particular name because someone with the same name did something bad. Such feelings eventually pass.

I doubt whether he is racist, he seems too nice and grounded to be so.
But he should have kept his mouth shut. It happened a long time ago, he didn't act on his thoughts, and he realised very quickly he was very wrong and he felt ashamed.
Maybe he should just forgive himself and move on....quietly.

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:39 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:But of course everyone has jumped straight on the RACIST band wagon without actually putting what he's said in context.

He's admitted his utter shame, and that he was misguided and wrong.  

Well at the time his thoughts were certainly racist. Because one black man committed rape he was prepared to punish any black man who dared look at him the wrong way.

Like I said, everyone has deep and dark thoughts sometimes, the more vivid the imagination the more extreme the thoughts. He was being honest in speaking about them, but speaking about them, especially in todays climate when there are so many black lads being stabbed and attacked, (often by other black kids but that's by the by) was not the brightest thing he has done lately.
He has always been a respected actor, time will tell if these rash comments will have an impact on his career.

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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:49 pm

Maddog wrote:Maybe his admission will open thr door to honest conversation? 



Nah, that's not going to happen.

Honest conversation and revealing the deepest darkest thoughts (to the media fgs) you had decades ago are two different things.

He was wrong, he admitted to himself long ago he was wrong, and nothing came of his thoughts anyway....so why hark back to them now?


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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:33 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:But of course everyone has jumped straight on the RACIST band wagon without actually putting what he's said in context.

He's admitted his utter shame, and that he was misguided and wrong.  

Well at the time his thoughts were certainly racist. Because one black man committed rape he was prepared to punish any black man who dared look at him the wrong way.

Like I said, everyone has deep and dark thoughts sometimes, the more vivid the imagination the more extreme the thoughts. He was being honest in speaking about them, but speaking about them, especially in todays climate when there are so many black lads being stabbed and attacked, (often by other black kids but that's by the by) was not the brightest thing he has done lately.
He has always been a respected actor, time will tell if these rash comments will have an impact on his career.

His thoughts weren't racist. He merely grouped people together according to something they had in common.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:08 pm

Very honest thing to say, but there is no disguising that it was a view of racist intent to murder. If at the time people had know this was his intent and he had spoken to people. That he intended to racially murder someone black. Then there is no excuse. There would be no excuse if black celebrity went out looking to murder someone white. Based of a black friend being raped by a white rapist.

Its guilt by racial association.

His anger should have been directed at finding out who was the rapist and then people could understand him wanting to take revenge on the rapist.

That was not the case. He wanting to take revenge racially against some randomn black man.

So its beyond dispute, that such a stance is racist.

Now I dont believe Liam is racism per say and I think his anger was up for what happened to his friend. I am sure also other people have felt this, but again  its no excuse.

Its the excuse Muslim extremists use to murder people all the time, based on some innocent Muslims civillians being killed by western military action. Where they seek to take revenge on the entire west for the wrongs/mistakes of individual military actions. They even take out hate on far more Muslims

If you are going to commit revenge to a wrong, its to the people that committed that wrong. Take for examples how some Jews after world war two, hunted down members of the Nazis and basically executed them without trial. They never randomnly picked out German civillians to target. This though again is the wrong way to do this, where they should have had them stand trial/.

So I dont believe he is racist, but through this crime, he failed to look at the suspect and then looked to blame black people for this crime., Wanting to commit harm to black people for this. As if they were all guilty for this crime through guilt by association.

Its racist plain and simple and needs to be condemned for this.

He at least sees the wrong in how he viewed revenge, but it was never really revenge he was looking for. It was looking to cause pain and suffering himself. Thinking this would right a wrong done and dull his anger and pain.

People need to take likeability
 of Laim out of the equation here and see this for what it is.

I think Liam is great and love many of his films, but his thoughts at the time were racist and emphatically wrong

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:21 pm

I also have to reason that this person was either family or a girlfriend. As by listening to this. He clearly was living with the individual that was raped.

I would also add this is what stems from sterotypes and hate towards people, based on group identity

You can listen to this on the Good Morning video on this.

Starts around 2:25



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Post by Syl on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Well at the time his thoughts were certainly racist. Because one black man committed rape he was prepared to punish any black man who dared look at him the wrong way.

Like I said, everyone has deep and dark thoughts sometimes, the more vivid the imagination the more extreme the thoughts. He was being honest in speaking about them, but speaking about them, especially in todays climate when there are so many black lads being stabbed and attacked, (often by other black kids but that's by the by) was not the brightest thing he has done lately.
He has always been a respected actor, time will tell if these rash comments will have an impact on his career.

His thoughts weren't racist. He merely grouped people together according to something they had in common.

Of course his thoughts were racist.
He grouped all black man in the same category....one hurt his friend so they all must be the same. He was looking for any black man to take his anger out of.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:46 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

His thoughts weren't racist. He merely grouped people together according to something they had in common.

Of course his thoughts were racist.
He grouped all black man in the same category....one hurt his friend so they all must be the same. He was looking for any black man to take his anger out of.

I don't think he thought they were all the same at all. It was an instinct, not based on any kind of logic. I've explained why already. I'm not going to condemn him for it. He only had thoughts, he didn't act on them, but I have no idea why he told everyone about it.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Of course his thoughts were racist.
He grouped all black man in the same category....one hurt his friend so they all must be the same. He was looking for any black man to take his anger out of.

I don't think he thought they were all the same at all. It was an instinct, not based on any kind of logic. I've explained why already. I'm not going to condemn him for it. He only had thoughts, he didn't act on them, but I have no idea why he told everyone about it.


It was based on a subconscious racist instinct.

He wanted to kill someone black, not based off any crime they did, but because they were black.

I mean take the view that his friend was raped by a man.

His view was not to seek revenege against a man for this attack, but to seek out someone black and male for this attack

It was racially motivated

He wanted to do what many Muslim extremists do. Commit harm towards a group of people. Based off no wrong the group has done, but to blame them collectivelly, for the wrong of one individual.

Are you going to excuse Muslim terrorism, based off such guilt by association methodology?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:56 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't think he thought they were all the same at all. It was an instinct, not based on any kind of logic. I've explained why already. I'm not going to condemn him for it. He only had thoughts, he didn't act on them, but I have no idea why he told everyone about it.


It was based on a subconscious racist instinct.

He wanted to kill someone black, not based off any crime they did, but because they were black.

I mean take the view that his friend was raped by a man.

His view was not to seek revenege against a man for this attack, but to seek out someone black and male for this attack

It was racially motivated

He wanted to do what many Muslim extremists do. Commit harm towards a group of people. Based off no wrong the group has done, but to blame them collectivelly, for the wrong of one individual.

Are you going to excuse Muslim terrorism, based off such guilt by association methodology?

You're talking about actions, not thoughts. He didn't harm anyone.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:00 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:


It was based on a subconscious racist instinct.

He wanted to kill someone black, not based off any crime they did, but because they were black.

I mean take the view that his friend was raped by a man.

His view was not to seek revenege against a man for this attack, but to seek out someone black and male for this attack

It was racially motivated

He wanted to do what many Muslim extremists do. Commit harm towards a group of people. Based off no wrong the group has done, but to blame them collectivelly, for the wrong of one individual.

Are you going to excuse Muslim terrorism, based off such guilt by association methodology?

You're talking about actions, not thoughts. He didn't harm anyone.


Thoughts lead to actions

His thoughts were to racially target a randomn black person

Does not matter if he did not harm someone, the intent was racist, to murder someone.

I like the man, but there is no denying his intent was racial murder.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:03 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You're talking about actions, not thoughts. He didn't harm anyone.


Thoughts lead to actions

His thoughts were to racially target a randomn black person

Does not matter if he did not harm someone, the intent was racist, to murder someone.

I like the man, but there is no denying his intent was racial murder.

His thoughts didn't lead to action though, as many thoughts don't. If they did, I'd be rich by now. Of course it matters that he didn't harm someone. You're surely not suggesting that the thought of harming someone is as bad as actually doing it.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:07 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:


Thoughts lead to actions

His thoughts were to racially target a randomn black person

Does not matter if he did not harm someone, the intent was racist, to murder someone.

I like the man, but there is no denying his intent was racial murder.

His thoughts didn't lead to action though, as many thoughts don't. If they did, I'd be rich by now. Of course it matters that he didn't harm someone. You're surely not suggesting that the thought of harming someone is as bad as actually doing it.


Well actually it did lead to action for over a wek. Where he went to neighbourhoods which were predominantly black, carrying a weapon.

So the only action he did not follow through on is the act of murder. He certainly acted to go looking to find someone black, as he armed himself.

So let me dumb this down for you

So you tell me what would happen. If a member of the public called the Police, in regards to being suspicious of a man. Seen to be carrying a weapon. The police stop this man and ask why he has been hanging around for over a week and why he is carrying a weapon.

He then states he is so angered over his friend being raped, he wants to take revenge on a black man for this.

What do you think the Police would do?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:09 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

His thoughts didn't lead to action though, as many thoughts don't. If they did, I'd be rich by now. Of course it matters that he didn't harm someone. You're surely not suggesting that the thought of harming someone is as bad as actually doing it.


Well actually it did lead to action for over a wek. Where he went to neighbourhoods which were predominantly black, carrying a weapon.

So the only action he did not follow through on is the act of murder. He certainly acted to go looking to find someone black, as he armed himself.

So let me dumb this down for you

So you tell me what would happen. If a member of the public called the Police, in regards to being suspicious of a man. Seen to be carrying a weapon. The police stop this man and ask why he has been hanging around for over a week and why he is carrying a weapon.

He then states he is so angered over his friend being raped, he wants to take revenge on a black man for this.

What do you think the Police would do?

Not much.

You're not very good at psychology are you?

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:11 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:


Well actually it did lead to action for over a wek. Where he went to neighbourhoods which were predominantly black, carrying a weapon.

So the only action he did not follow through on is the act of murder. He certainly acted to go looking to find someone black, as he armed himself.

So let me dumb this down for you

So you tell me what would happen. If a member of the public called the Police, in regards to being suspicious of a man. Seen to be carrying a weapon. The police stop this man and ask why he has been hanging around for over a week and why he is carrying a weapon.

He then states he is so angered over his friend being raped, he wants to take revenge on a black man for this.

What do you think the Police would do?

Not much.

You're not very good at psychology are you?


So you think the police would ignore someone looking for revenge stating so, armed with a weapon

wow

What has psychology got to do with the law and the Police protecting people?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:15 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Not much.

You're not very good at psychology are you?


So you think the police would ignore someone looking for revenge stating so, armed with a weapon

wow

What has psychology got to do with the law and the Police protecting people?

You're looking at the whole thing in a very superficial and childlike way. Try to understand this "primal urge" that he had. Then understand that he did nothing about it - even though it would have been quite easy to provoke an argument with a black man.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:26 pm

I mean the point to show here, is he never once asked what the person looked like

He asked what colour they were.

Why?

His immediate view off this answer was to then seek out anyone black, whilst armed and kill them. Through the view he hoped to have someone come up to him and instigate an altercation.

That shows premeditation in his actions. He did not want to overtly attack someone, but  want a black person to approach him. Clearly with a view to use self defense. Even though this would be easily dismissed through the view he was armed and in an area, he activelly went to.

This is why you never think anything through Rags and now its my psychology education. That sees through what his intent was here. Its even more apt when he uses the word to kill someone, not murder them. His intent was based around, hoping to cause a confrontation. That he intended to come out of claiming self defense. Even though his real intent was to murder someone black.

The whole situation was clerly anger driven, but more so based off a racist stance. His views in the video are based solely on the person being black. With no view to actually understand any other feature, than that of skin colour and male.

His views were born from a stance that was very inherant at the time, where people certainly had a very racist view of black people in the UK and Northern Ireland. His view was also born from growing up in Northern Ireland where revenge was dished out onto many innocent people. Through the troubles of Northern  ireland.

So stop with the prattle about him not being racist at the time. Its clear he was, but has since learnt not to be, which i commend. The fact you claim he was not racist here, or ignore he did act, going out actively. To want someone to start on him. Shows the intent and purpose he had. Even more so. It was from a view to make himself look like one of self defense.

It took over a week, that after all his efforts, clearly nobody even attempted to start with him. Foiling his plan. Only then did sense start to drum into him, the folly of his actions.


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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:28 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:


So you think the police would ignore someone looking for revenge stating so, armed with a weapon

wow

What has psychology got to do with the law and the Police protecting people?

You're looking at the whole thing in a very superficial and childlike way. Try to understand this "primal urge" that he had. Then understand that he did nothing about it - even though it would have been quite easy to provoke an argument with a black man.

You think racism is now a "primal urge"

So you think Islamic terrorism, is based omn a "primal urge"?

Really?

Would you like a shovel to dig yourself out of the hole you have dug.

As why did he simple not go out an and target the first man he came across for this crime of rape?

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:One of my favourite actors too. Sad

I dont believe anyone no matter how self righteous, who claims to have no bad, even evil thoughts, but some things are best left unsaid surely...unless you are having therapy when it's encouraged to torture yourself .
These thoughts are fleeting, probably occurring when our feelings are heightened about something upsetting, we know they are destructive, face them, and they fade.

Why a respected actor, who has been through so much in his life should choose tp speak about this to a journalist (of all people) maybe just to  promote his latest film is madness.

I don't know.  There are some personalities that harbor these kinds of mind frames.  Like sharpening a stick, their childhood is about honing it to a fine point.

And genetically, a Welsh-Irishman has blood that boils easily.

That is even more idiotic than Rags views here

Its also emphatically from a racist mindset

Welsh and Irish are not racial groups, but ethnic groups.

There is no biological view based on each ethnic group, that their blood boils easily

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:38 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't know.  There are some personalities that harbor these kinds of mind frames.  Like sharpening a stick, their childhood is about honing it to a fine point.

And genetically, a Welsh-Irishman has blood that boils easily.

I doubt that's a genetic thing, not that I've noticed it's true anyway.

Hereditary vs. environment/ environment vs. hereditary.  It goes round and round.  When I was at university, it was taboo to say anything was hereditary.  The problem is that it led to a philosophy of determinism.  Books like Robert Ardrey's The Territorial Imperative: A Personal Inquiry Into the Animal Origins of Property and Nations (1966) were roundly booed as racist because they dared attribute human patterns to genetics.  As Robert Worker said:

What ought to be studied, according to Ardrey, are the relations between individuals that stem from the innate and universal attributes of animal life, whereas cultural anthropologists who detect a fundamental discontinuity between mankind and other zoological species are just impervious to the revolutionary ideas of Darwinism which have reverberated throughout all the life sciences apart from their own

Two years after the publication of The Territorial Imperative, Ashley Montagu organized a counter-movement of fourteen scientists to write a collection of articles in opposition to Ardrey's work (and Konrad Lorenz', On Aggression).  This collection was titled Man and Aggression. Montagu would eventually edit another volume in opposition to Ardrey, and the increasingly heated debate served to further stir popular interest in human origins.

The debate feathered a bit with the rise of Watson & Crick's determination of the double-helix structure of DNA, giving genetics a leg-up.  Adversely, this had the effect of withering enthusiasm for what Robin Fox/Lionel Tiger called "the Christian scientists of anthropology": the hold-over belief that human judgement and thought were divorced from the body.

Today, the debate is still an open question.  I lean toward the thinking that genetics tends to limit alternatives, but that still leaves a lot of room for personal idiosyncrasies.  I do believe that genetic populations exhibit certain similar characteristics, which are then honed by experience.  Thus, I say a Welsh/Irishman's "blood boils easily".


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Post by eddie on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:42 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:But of course everyone has jumped straight on the RACIST band wagon without actually putting what he's said in context.

He's admitted his utter shame, and that he was misguided and wrong.  

Exactly. What’s the big deal?

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Post by eddie on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:43 pm

And actually, a lot of Irish people aren’t keen on black people, from what I’ve seen and witnessed anyway.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:50 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I doubt that's a genetic thing, not that I've noticed it's true anyway.

Hereditary vs. environment/ environment vs. hereditary.  It goes round and round.  When I was at university, it was taboo to say anything was hereditary.  The problem is that it led to a philosophy of determinism.  Books like Robert Ardrey's The Territorial Imperative: A Personal Inquiry Into the Animal Origins of Property and Nations (1966) were roundly booed as racist because they dared attribute human patterns to genetics.  As Robert Worker said:


Well its even more idiotic to claim just Irish and welsh, when the Hereditary vs. environment/ environment vs. hereditarydumb argument you present would include Scottish, Cornish and people from Brittany..

So lets get some facts straight here. There has always been an argument based on a warrior gene. Genetically passed on that has been argued from time immoral, but even this falls down. Based on the fact many people that is claimed to hold this gene, never engage in violence. I have also never seen this gene be associated with the specific European ethnicities. Its based on a view of the following.

56% of Maori males, it occurred in 58% of African American males and 34% of European males

Which by your reasoning we should be more wary of African Americans and Maroi

Its actually more about social behaviour

The reality is people who hold racist mindsets like yourself, wish to use racist thinking to blame for violence through biology, which does not hold up to any standard.

The reality is we all carry this gene, which not many people actually realise

The second point is that violence is found within all societies

So to make the dumbfuckmwitted view that you make, shows you are a proponent of psuedo scientific racism

So nobody is saying anything is tabboo and it seems that is your argument to back an unfounded claim

We know men are as a group more violent than women, no matter the ethnic group. Its based on the extremes in male groups

Typically the dominant 5% of males

Nothing to do with race, as race is a social construct

Its why through out history we see violence happen globally

Even indgineous groups committed violence against each other

So please stop with the prattle, you are embarressing yourself

As its not even tabboo to talk about. Its simple embarressing when people racist, make such absurd claims


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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:53 pm

eddie wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:But of course everyone has jumped straight on the RACIST band wagon without actually putting what he's said in context.

He's admitted his utter shame, and that he was misguided and wrong.  

Exactly. What’s the big deal?

So do you think its wrong to say when someone acts wrong?

Yes or no?

If someone harmed your daughter for example.

Would your thought be to find the individual or target someone else not connected to this crime, based on their skin colour through guilt by association?

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:55 pm

eddie wrote:And actually, a lot of Irish people aren’t keen on black people, from what I’ve seen and witnessed anyway.

And how many of the millions of Irish people do you exactly know world wide, to make such a statement Eddie.?

So your view to now make such a view of Irish people is based on the pitiful number of Irish people you know and basically sterotype all of them. Based on a fucked up ignorant view you hold on a pitiful racist few Irish people you know?

Sometimes you are a fucking idiot

I mean, have you even been to Ireland?

Talk about guilt by association again

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:10 pm

Didge wrote:Welsh and Irish are not racial groups, but ethnic groups.

Both are Celtic/Galelic, and comprise a genetic group.  The Welsh and Cornish tend to be p-Celtic linguistically (p'hat didya say), https://www.scotslanguage.com/The_Languages_Our_Neighbours_Speak/P-Celtic_Languages

...while Scots, Manx and northern Britons tend to be q-Celtic (q'are are ya goin').
https://www.scotslanguage.com/The_Languages_Our_Neighbours_Speak/Q-Celtic_Languages

Study and learn.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:22 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Welsh and Irish are not racial groups, but ethnic groups.

Both are Celtic/Galelic, and comprise a genetic group.  The Welsh and Cornish tend to be p-Celtic linguistically (p'hat didya say), https://www.scotslanguage.com/The_Languages_Our_Neighbours_Speak/P-Celtic_Languages

...while Scots, Manx and northern Britons tend to be q-Celtic (q'are are ya goin').
https://www.scotslanguage.com/The_Languages_Our_Neighbours_Speak/Q-Celtic_Languages

Study and learn.

Your argument is languages now, to claim genetics?

I have studied and learnt, the Scots came from ireland, making them genetiucally from the same ethnic group

So what do I need to learn?

That your racist argument is quite embarressing to watch?

What genes do they have that is not mixed, as much as nay other human?

What are these unique celtic genes, being as the celts derived from German lands?

So after showing up your idiocy, with a long reply, your only answer is based on language.

One that is not a genesis langauage either

Where did this language stem from?

Then go back and answer my points Mr Racist?

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:33 pm

Didge wrote:Your argument is languages now, to claim genetics?

Yes, there is a strong relationship between copulation, population and language.  Unless they can understand "Yes, I do", it's probably unwise to move forward.

Without moving forward, not a lot of progeny comes along.

Laughing

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:41 pm

After the comments on this thread, I truely dispair at the idocy of people and even more their poor views they hold to people based off labels. I want to see a future . Where people are not stigmatised through labels. This also includes Transgender people. What I do not want to happen is homosexual children being pushed into treatement that wrongly associates them with gender dysphoria.

I cannot believe people on here, who claim not to be racist. Would because they simple like an actor, cannot simple condemn his views at the time. I like him also, but can actually see why and how wrong his views were at the time.

What I have seen and dont mind from Rags. Is she never made a racist view here with defense. She made a poor argument in my view, but it was not based on labels. She likes him, as I do, but a bias is swaying her views. Her intent was not based on race.

Yet in comes Eddie and Quill and they actually then argue with a racist mindset

I mean come on, that people as a group and label, are now racist. You have got to be kidding me. Where this mindset is what causes racism in the first place against people in the past. That is based on them as a group identity and that if someone Irish is racist. To them, its not only okay, but that group is the problem here and is an excuse for his behaviour.

I mean seriously, what the fuck?

What am I hearing here?

There is no science to the nonsense I am being subjected to.

I am not proposing any harm or action against Liam. Only that his views are wrong and yet. Eddie, Quill etc, offer up groups being racist on some wraped racist ideology stance. One based on a couple of Irish people she met and the other based on language.

Its the most idiotic fucked up bullshit I have ever heard. Its the same idiocy, that saw countless black Americans lynched. Based on how some people knew some people and held a percieved view of them.

I can excuse rags here, but i cannot excuse the stupid posts made by Quill and edde.

They were simple plainly and utterly fucking ignorant and born from the same mindset of racism

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:43 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Your argument is languages now, to claim genetics?

Yes, there is a strong relationship between copulation, population and language.  Unless they can understand "Yes, I do", it's probably unwise to move forward.

Without moving forward, not a lot of progeny comes along.

Laughing

So to you blacks are criminally minded by such reasons, as the KKK

That is the same reasoning and fear they use

So do you back the white supremacist fear on this, with copulation, population and language with Muslims?

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:48 pm

Didge wrote:...blacks are criminally minded by such reasons, as the KKK

You said it, not me: Liam Neeson...great line to end a career with.  2190311264 We know you are a sexist misogynist, who wants to put gang rapists on the US Supreme Court.  I would think you are akin with the folks who say blacks lives don't matter in the face of police genocide.

Figures.  Rolling Eyes

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:...blacks are criminally minded by such reasons, as the KKK

You said it, not me: Liam Neeson...great line to end a career with.  2190311264 We know you are a sexist misogynist, who wants to put gang rapists on the US Supreme Court.  I would think you are akin with the folks who say blacks lives don't matter in the face of police genocide.

Figures.  Rolling Eyes

You deleted the most important part and hence why again you try to lie

I said

So to you blacks are criminally minded by such reasons, as the KKK

Of course you would try and dig yourself out of the fact you made pseudo racist arguments here

I simple exposed the fact Quill, that you are as dishonest as trump and as racist

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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:33 pm

Can you imagine anyone making a racist argument as Quill has done based on Hereditary vs. environment/ environment vs. hereditary, with Africans?

Seriously?

Its why I hold little respect for people who end up being racist themselves with such dumb thinking.

Its even more apparant, when they know little of Africa's history.

I seriously dispair. When I normally respect Eddie and Quill, but not when they make such stupid unscientific arguments.

I am the one labelled right wing and yet hold more of a liberal ground than Quill does

What I see is people are controlled by labels. The labels they do not like. They never know how to tackle them, but use them to hold people in fear. Exactly as racists once did and still do  toda.

When will people ever learn, they end up being what they stand against, when it consumes them. They become a by-prduct of the very same hate. Never learning how to solve that hate. With reason

Night everyone

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Post by HoratioTarr on Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:38 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

His thoughts weren't racist. He merely grouped people together according to something they had in common.

Of course his thoughts were racist.
He grouped all black man in the same category....one hurt his friend so they all must be the same. He was looking for any black man to take his anger out of.

He's admitted his thoughts were racist. He's not denying that. The point is...is he racist for admitting how he felt back then?
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Post by phildidge on Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:42 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

Of course his thoughts were racist.
He grouped all black man in the same category....one hurt his friend so they all must be the same. He was looking for any black man to take his anger out of.

He's admitted his thoughts were racist.  He's not denying that.   The point is...is he racist for admitting how he felt back then?

No that is not the point being made

I doubt many people believe he is racist

I do not think his is racist now

The point is based on him wanting to kill someone simple because they were black

How can you not see how that is steeped in generations of the same racist hate seen in history?

Seriously?

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Post by Syl on Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:27 am

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

Of course his thoughts were racist.
He grouped all black man in the same category....one hurt his friend so they all must be the same. He was looking for any black man to take his anger out of.

He's admitted his thoughts were racist.  He's not denying that.   The point is...is he racist for admitting how he felt back then?

No, I dont think he is a racist now, but there is no denying he was back then, yes he acted in anger, but instead of blaming one man who happened to be black, he blamed all black men.

He now recognises this and is ashamed of how he acted...which is great.

His mistake now is in giving an interview bringing it up.
l just fail to see who it can benifit, certainly not black people, and certainly not Liam Neesons career.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:05 pm

Thor wrote:After the comments on this thread, I truely dispair at the idocy of people and even more their poor views they hold to people based off labels. I want to see a future . Where people are not stigmatised through labels. This also includes Transgender people. What I do not want to happen is homosexual children being pushed into treatement that wrongly associates them with gender dysphoria.

I cannot believe people on here, who claim not to be racist. Would because they simple like an actor, cannot simple condemn his views at the time. I like him also, but can actually see why and how wrong his views were at the time.

What I have seen and dont mind from Rags. Is she never made a racist view here with defense. She made a poor argument in my view, but it was not based on labels. She likes him, as I do, but a bias is swaying her views. Her intent was not based on  race.

Yet in comes Eddie and Quill and they actually then argue with a racist mindset

I mean come on, that people as a group and label, are now racist. You have got to be kidding me. Where this mindset is what causes racism in the first place against people in the past. That is based on them as a group identity and that if someone Irish is racist. To them, its not only okay, but that group is the problem here and is an excuse for his behaviour.

I mean seriously, what the fuck?

What am I hearing here?

There is no science to the nonsense I am being subjected to.

I am not proposing any harm or action against Liam. Only that his views are wrong and yet. Eddie, Quill etc, offer up groups being racist on some wraped racist ideology stance. One based on a couple of Irish people she met and the other based on language.

Its the most idiotic fucked up bullshit I have ever heard. Its the same idiocy, that saw countless black Americans lynched. Based on how some people knew some people and held a percieved view of them.

I can excuse rags here, but i cannot excuse the stupid posts made by Quill and edde.

They were simple plainly and utterly fucking ignorant and born from the same mindset of racism

I never said whether I liked him or not, so there was no bias there. I don't need you to "excuse" me - my opinion is just as valid as yours.

There is no point in "condemning" him anyway as he already condemned himself years ago. As Syl said, it was a bit daft to tell everyone what he was thinking at the time. Such thoughts should be kept to oneself.

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Raggamuffin
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