Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:06 pm

The mother of a three-year-old girl has become the first to be convicted of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) in the UK, after a failed bid to "shut up" her accusers with witchcraft.

The Ugandan woman, 37, and her Ghanaian partner, 43, both from Walthamstow, east London, were accused of cutting their daughter over the 2017 summer bank holiday.

Police found bizarre spells inside 40 frozen limes and two ox tongues with screws embedded in them aimed at silencing police, social workers, officers and lawyers in the case.

The defendants, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, denied FGM and an alternative charge of failing to protect a girl from risk of genital mutilation.

The mother wept in the dock as she was found guilty of FGM and her partner was cleared of all charges after the Old Bailey jury deliberated for less than a day.

Carrying out FGM carries a maximum prison sentence of 14 years.

Mrs Justice Whipple warned of a "lengthy" jail term as she remanded the woman into custody to be sentenced on March 8.

She told her: "You have been found guilty of a serious offence against your daughter."

The law was introduced in 1985 and has since been amended to include assisting and taking children abroad to be cut.

There have been just three other trials involving FGM - two in London and one in Bristol - which all ended in acquittals while some 298 prevention orders have been put in place to safeguard children at risk.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/01/first-fgm-conviction-uk-mother-faces-lengthy-jail-sentence/

I think this is scandalous, that so many abusive parents/family have gotten away with such sadistic child abuse.


Last edited by Thor on Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:40 pm

Wait until they get down to male genital mutilation. The numbers will stagger you. Ugandans, pftttt. The Americans do it, the Canadians do it, and the Australians do it. It even has religious overtones...Jews do it.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:43 pm

Original Quill wrote:Wait until they get down to male genital mutilation.  The numbers will stagger you.  Ugandans, pftttt.  The Americans do it, the Canadians do it, and the Australians do it.  It even has religious overtones...Jews do it.


I already think circumcision is wrong, but is legal at present, which all Muslim men do also. Odd that you avoid mentioning them

This is about FGM, which is illegal

So stay on topic

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:52 pm

Whether its legal or not is a remedial question. Genital mutilation is immoral in any event, but it has caught on in certain cultures. We can't be shocked and repulsed when we do the same thing.

That's what you confront when you have these immigrants bringing their culture with them. Mormons bring plural marriages and statutory rape...they are still doing it.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:56 pm

Thor wrote:The mother of a three-year-old girl has become the first to be convicted of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) in the UK, after a failed bid to "shut up" her accusers with witchcraft.

The Ugandan woman, 37, and her Ghanaian partner, 43, both from Walthamstow, east London, were accused of cutting their daughter over the 2017 summer bank holiday.

Police found bizarre spells inside 40 frozen limes and two ox tongues with screws embedded in them aimed at silencing police, social workers, officers and lawyers in the case.

The defendants, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, denied FGM and an alternative charge of failing to protect a girl from risk of genital mutilation.

The mother wept in the dock as she was found guilty of FGM and her partner was cleared of all charges after the Old Bailey jury deliberated for less than a day.

Carrying out FGM carries a maximum prison sentence of 14 years.

Mrs Justice Whipple warned of a "lengthy" jail term as she remanded the woman into custody to be sentenced on March 8.

She told her: "You have been found guilty of a serious offence against your daughter."

The law was introduced in 1985 and has since been amended to include assisting and taking children abroad to be cut.

There have been just three other trials involving FGM - two in London and one in Bristol - which all ended in acquittals while some 298 prevention orders have been put in place to safeguard children at risk.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/01/first-fgm-conviction-uk-mother-faces-lengthy-jail-sentence/

I think this is scandalous, that so many abusive parents/family have gotten away with such sadistic child abuse.

Back to the topic at hand

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:10 pm

Tsk-tsk...

OK, next topic. Laughing

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Vintage on Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:39 pm

While male circumcision is wrong you really can't compare it with what happens to females and the ongoing health consequences of the mutilation of girls. The removal of the prepuce can be compared to male circumcision but after that there is no comparison at all as the aim is to reduce or remove any sexual desire in women. The most severe cutting removes all the genitalia and then sews up the opening leaving only a opening of approx. a match head to enable menstrual flow and urination which being inadequate causes all sorts of infections. Its a disgusting custom carried on mostly by women but kept going because men won't marry girls who haven't been cut.

Vintage

Posts : 2122
Join date : 2013-08-02

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:43 pm

Vintage wrote:While male circumcision is wrong you really can't compare it with what happens to females and the ongoing health consequences of the mutilation of girls. The removal of the prepuce can be compared to male circumcision but after that there is no comparison at all as the aim is to reduce or remove any sexual desire in women. The most severe cutting removes all the genitalia and then sews up the opening leaving only a opening of approx. a match head to enable menstrual flow and urination which being inadequate causes all sorts of infections. Its a disgusting custom carried on mostly by women but kept going because men won't marry girls who haven't been cut.

+1

This will interest you and show the lunancy of some of the left on this. Who defend FGM basaed on cultural relativism

It also shows up the idiocy of Quills points here


phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by nicko on Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:49 pm

This was Mens idea in the first place, worried that women might like Sexual Intercourse and would go with other Men If Husband did not satisfy them. Am I right ?
nicko
nicko

Posts : 12400
Join date : 2013-12-07
Age : 78
Location : rainbow bridge

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Vintage on Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:17 pm

Absolutely Nicko and when I hear it compared to male circumcision what so called feminists say about cultural customs I am astonished, depressed and apoplectic.
I believe these parents should go to jail, the mother for having it done and the father for not stopping it, then the daughter should be fostered and the parents deported to where ever they came from and take their vile customs and witchcraft with them/

Vintage

Posts : 2122
Join date : 2013-08-02

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:32 pm

Vintage wrote:While male circumcision is wrong you really can't compare it with what happens to females and the ongoing health consequences of the mutilation of girls. The removal of the prepuce can be compared to male circumcision but after that there is no comparison at all as the aim is to reduce or remove any sexual desire in women. The most severe cutting removes all the genitalia and then sews up the opening leaving only a opening of approx. a match head to enable menstrual flow and urination which being inadequate causes all sorts of infections. Its a disgusting custom carried on mostly by women but kept going because men won't marry girls who haven't been cut.

There are many different kinds of FMG, from a labia rescission, which is a mere cosmetic clipping of the labia, to a clitoridectomy, which is the equivalent of a penectomy (the clitoris being the homologous organ).  Both of the latter are extreme.

A labia rescission (or a hoodectomy) is a cosmetic procedure, as is circumcision in a male.  However, a circumcision has major consequences later in life, as it is amputation of a functional organ...the male prepuce or foreskin.  The penis is a much larger organ and once it’s prepuce is removed more is exposed.  Without the prepuce, the protected glans tends to cornify and harden, thus leaving it with 50-60% less sensation.  Also, urinary tract infections (UTI’s) are more prevalent.

The problem is that those who would minimize the effects of circumcision tend to define FGM always as the maximum, clitoridectomy, thereby reciprocally minimizing circumcision.  That way, they can condemn FGM, while making it seem that the male equivalent is a mere piccadello.  This allows the western nations the privilege of their own harmful cultural practices while condemning African cultures.

Both procedures should be prohibited, and those who perform it on infants should be convicted and imprisoned for major assault and body mutilation.  The problem is that a certain powerful and influential religion protects the practice on infants in western nations (generally not European).

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:40 pm

Yet again a false equivalency by quill. When as already stated I am against circumcision. Though this however does not deny any sexual pleasure for men. They will always still have the use of their dicks. Only in  extreme cases, will there be a problem

FGM certainly does for many victims. Hence to make such a dumb equivalency, ignores the plight of many girls and women that suffer this. Not only that is not simple about sexual pleasure, but the many medical health problems that also are a result of this barbaric practice.

The health consequences of FGM can include recurrent urinary and vaginal infections, chronic pain, infertility, fatal hemorrhaging, epidermoid cysts, and complications during childbirth. 

Now I think circumcision should be banned, but for you to make this equivalent, is again trying to down play the criminality of FGM itself. 

The problem here is that FGM is illegal and there is literally thousands of victims. Many of which have lost the ability of sexual pleasure through the clitoris. For you to say. "well not all lose", based on methods, has to go down as one of the poorerest apologists arguments you have made to date on this.

This debate is not about circumcisions, even though you continually poorly attempt to steer the topic that way, as again you are clearly trying to downplay the problem of FGM

So people agree that circumcision is wrong and should be illegal

That point is made. The point is really on those who poorly use circumcision to side tract from FGM, usually apologists on the left and the problem of FGM itself

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:49 pm

You don't know what you are talking about, didge. We've been over this on several different threads over the years.

You are a right-wing apologist, not in tune with modern thinking. Circumcision is modernly condemned worldwide. Moreover, the religion to which I allude is Judah, which for political reasons, you tend to be overly protective.

Sorry, but your bias precludes you from an objective discussion on the subject.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:You don't know what you are talking about, didge.  We've been over this on several different threads over the years.

You are a right-wing apologist, not in tune with modern thinking.  Circumcision is modernly condemned worldwide.  Moreover, the religion to which I allude is Judah, which for political reasons, you tend to be overly protective.

Sorry, but your bias precludes you from an objective discussion on the subject.


The above proves its you looking very silly now, as have condemned circumcision and clearly know what I am talking about

You made a really poor and false equivalency

Yet again a false equivalency by quill. When as already stated I am against circumcision. Though this however does not deny any sexual pleasure for men. They will always still have the use of their dicks. Only in  extreme cases, will there be a problem

FGM certainly does for many victims. Hence to make such a dumb equivalency, ignores the plight of many girls and women that suffer this. Not only that is not simple about sexual pleasure, but the many medical health problems that also are a result of this barbaric practice.

The health consequences of FGM can include recurrent urinary and vaginal infections, chronic pain, infertility, fatal hemorrhaging, epidermoid cysts, and complications during childbirth.

Now I think circumcision should be banned, but for you to make this equivalent, is again trying to down play the criminality of FGM itself.

The problem here is that FGM is illegal and there is literally thousands of victims. Many of which have lost the ability of sexual pleasure through the clitoris. For you to say. "well not all lose", based on methods, has to go down as one of the poorerest apologists arguments you have made to date on this.

This debate is not about circumcisions, even though you continually poorly attempt to steer the topic that way, as again you are clearly trying to downplay the problem of FGM

So people agree that circumcision is wrong and should be illegal

That point is made. The point is really on those who poorly use circumcision to side tract from FGM, usually apologists on the left and the problem of FGM itself

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:56 pm

So how are you now making this Jewish on circumcision, when Muslims also circumcise?

That means I stand against both religious practices on this

See how the equivalency works in this regard here on circumcision with who ever practices this?

So if you against the Judaism practice on this, why not the Islamic one also that effects hundreds of Millions of Muslim men and boys?

Hence how you are looking even sillier, as I do not defend any religions, I am highly critical of them all, including Judaism.

Only for medical exceptional reasons, should circumcision be allowed. Any other reason it should be banned

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Vintage on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:23 pm

FGM is so wrong in so many ways, trying to compare it to circumcision is a total injustice, for one thing circumcision is done once, it may rarely have ongoing problems but that's nothing compared to FGM, there are health problems - already set out, but in the worst kind of FGM. women have to be cut again to allow the birth of children, then sewn up again only to have this done every time she gives birth, the problems with scar tissue add to the general health problems. I have also heard stories of husbands without patience use knives on their wives to accomplish intercourse. Please, those of you that compare this to male circumcision think about this and consider if this were your daughter or sister. Just who gave men the right to modify and attack women's bodies in this way. There are may ways all over the world that use various ways to modify and restrict women's behaviour from clothes that are impractical through behavioral restrictions to FGM, its time it all stopped.

Vintage

Posts : 2122
Join date : 2013-08-02

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:04 pm

Vintage wrote: FGM is so wrong in so many ways, trying to compare it to circumcision is a total injustice, for one thing circumcision is done once, it may rarely have ongoing problems but that's nothing compared to FGM, there are health problems - already set out, but in the worst kind of FGM. women have to be cut again to allow the birth of children, then sewn up again only to have this done every time she gives birth, the problems with scar tissue add to the general health problems. I have also heard stories of husbands without patience use knives on their wives to accomplish intercourse. Please, those of you that compare this to male circumcision think about this and consider if this were your daughter or sister.  Just who gave men the right to modify and attack women's bodies in this way.  There are may ways all over the world that use various ways to modify and restrict women's behaviour from clothes that are impractical through behavioral restrictions to FGM, its time it all stopped.

You are obviously trying to protect the cultural habit of circumcision in the west, and particularly the religious orientation. Circumcision started in America during the masturbation hysteria of the Victorian Era, when a few American doctors—notably Dr. John C. Kellogg, the wacky naturopath, whose life was chronicled in the film “Road to Wellness”—advocated circumcising boys to punish them for the “evil” of masturbating. It was believed that circumcised penises would be difficult to manipulate to ejaculation—they didn’t know cause they certainly weren’t circumcised. Lol.

When practically a whole generation had become circumcised in the US, and men tended to be embarrassed about the (then) malformation, there were invented a whole host of hygiene issues, which they then used to justify circumcising their children. Around again it went. In the mid-90s the US was over 90% circumcised, while the UK and nations of Western Europe are overwhelmingly uncircumcised.

A massive US Navy study started in the early-1940s debunked all of the hygiene myths In other words the prepuce (foreskin) is a form of protective labia that appears on nearly every orifice on the body (think eyelids, buttocks, lips, prepuce and on women, labia and specifically, the hood; the nose and ears are protected in other ways, but must remain open to function) and help keep out infectious agents. Imagine if someone started the myth that eyelids should be cut off to prevent infection.

Today, partially as a result of organizations such as Doctors Opposing Circumcision, the proportion of circumcised in the US has dropped dramatically. The main pillar against 'natural' men, is the Jewish religion and in particular, medical professionals. They are motivated to urge anything that confirms their religious practice.

It sheds light on the hypocrisy of our culture, condemning the practice in females from Africa, yet sanctioning it in our own culture. Typical western chauvinism: preach to others, but don't look over here.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:14 pm

Nobody is denying the wrongs of circumcision.

What people are aghast at, is you trying to create a false equivalency in regards to FGM

You then say our culture?

I mean what the fuck?

Where do you think circumcision originated from and is certainly not a western pratice.

So to again cast blame on western culture to a practice that is widespread throughout out the Middle East, Asia, Africa etc, long before it reached the shores of America. Has to be one of the biggest and most idiotic claims you have made to again deflect again away from FGM.

Now to you the west is the problem with body mutilation. As if twestern cultures invented this. I mean for fuck sake, how much more can you be such an ignorant apologist here?

This is why people like you Quill, givbe the left such a bad name, with your blatant idiocy.

There are many men that hate the fact they were circumcised, from the US, but to claim this is based on a western culture. Where originally you placed this only on Judaism. Really reeks to me, of a Jew Hatred you seem to have. A warped conspiracy you have against Jews. Your history is so warped it beggars belief and its now based on some of the worst antisemitic troupes. Based around Jews controlling to the extent of changing cultures. When many views to circumcise were based on poor original views around medical views.

Again  and I stress again, I find this religious practice abhorant, whether Jewish or Islamic, but the fact again you want to do everything to deny talking about FGM, shows to me. You have no care about FGM. You want to yet again down play this harm caused to women and girls.

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Vintage on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:20 pm

I condemn all of it, if you are religious why tamper with god's creation, if it ain't broke, that's the design leave it alone, unless there's something wrong.

If you aren't religious what right do you have to modify someone else's body designed by evolution for its purpose.

Vintage

Posts : 2122
Join date : 2013-08-02

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by eddie on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:25 pm

Quill, what the hell are you on about? scratch

_________________
Please stop saying "You can't joke about anything anymore". You can. You can joke about whatever the fuck you like. And some people won't like it and they will tell you they don't like it. And then it's up to you whether you give a fuck or not. And so on. It's a good system. ~ Ricky Gervais
eddie
eddie
King of Beards. Keeper of the Whip. Top Chef. BEES!!!!!! Mushroom muncher. Spider aficionado!

Posts : 39478
Join date : 2013-07-28
Age : 49
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Ben Reilly on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:28 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Vintage wrote: FGM is so wrong in so many ways, trying to compare it to circumcision is a total injustice, for one thing circumcision is done once, it may rarely have ongoing problems but that's nothing compared to FGM, there are health problems - already set out, but in the worst kind of FGM. women have to be cut again to allow the birth of children, then sewn up again only to have this done every time she gives birth, the problems with scar tissue add to the general health problems. I have also heard stories of husbands without patience use knives on their wives to accomplish intercourse. Please, those of you that compare this to male circumcision think about this and consider if this were your daughter or sister.  Just who gave men the right to modify and attack women's bodies in this way.  There are may ways all over the world that use various ways to modify and restrict women's behaviour from clothes that are impractical through behavioral restrictions to FGM, its time it all stopped.

You are obviously trying to protect the cultural habit of circumcision in the west, and particularly the religious orientation.  Circumcision started in America during the masturbation hysteria of the Victorian Era, when a few American doctors—notably Dr. John C. Kellogg, the wacky naturopath, whose life was chronicled in the film “Road to Wellness”—advocated circumcising boys to punish them for the “evil” of masturbating.  It was believed that circumcised penises would be difficult to manipulate to ejaculation—they didn’t know cause they certainly weren’t circumcised.  Lol.

When practically a whole generation had become circumcised in the US, and men tended to be embarrassed about the (then) malformation, there were invented a whole host of hygiene issues, which they then used to justify circumcising their children.  Around again it went.  In the mid-90s the US was over 90% circumcised, while the UK and nations of Western Europe are overwhelmingly uncircumcised.

A massive US Navy study started in the early-1940s debunked all of the hygiene myths  In other words the prepuce (foreskin) is a form of protective labia that appears on nearly every orifice on the body (think eyelids, buttocks, lips, prepuce and on women, labia and specifically, the hood; the nose and ears are protected in other ways, but must remain open to function) and help keep out infectious agents.  Imagine if someone started the myth that eyelids should be cut off to prevent infection.

Today, partially as a result of organizations such as Doctors Opposing Circumcision, the proportion of circumcised in the US has dropped dramatically.  The main pillar against 'natural' men, is the Jewish religion and in particular, medical professionals.  They are motivated to urge anything that confirms their religious practice.

It sheds light on the hypocrisy of our culture, condemning the practice in females from Africa, yet sanctioning it in our own culture.  Typical western chauvinism: preach to others, but don't look over here.

I don't think you can compare a surgery, needed or not, which modifies the male sexual organ but still allows for a perfectly normal life, with a surgery that removes the female's ability to feel sexual pleasure.

_________________
"The face in the mirror won't stop!"

"When the music is your special friend / dance on fire as, it intends"

- Jim Morrison
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
Cowboy King. Dread Pirate of the Guadalupe. God of Thunder.

Posts : 27503
Join date : 2013-01-19
Age : 44
Location : Tesco's

http://www.newsfixboard.com

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:23 am

Ben wrote:I don't think you can compare a surgery, needed or not, which modifies the male sexual organ but still allows for a perfectly normal life, with a surgery that removes the female's ability to feel sexual pleasure.

Surgery without consent is criminal behavior. If you are willing to accept mutilation brutality on a two-day old infant, then you are willing to accept experimentation on, say, the mentally ill or retarded. Lamp shades, anyone?

Count me out.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by HoratioTarr on Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:47 am

nicko wrote:This was Mens idea in the first place,  worried that women might like Sexual Intercourse and would go with other Men If Husband did not satisfy them.  Am I right ?

Dead right. FGM is nothing but a surgical chastity belt.
HoratioTarr
HoratioTarr

Posts : 9618
Join date : 2014-01-12

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:02 pm

Ben wrote:I don't think you can compare a surgery, needed or not, which modifies the male sexual organ but still allows for a perfectly normal life, with a surgery that removes the female's ability to feel sexual pleasure.

Ask the most basic question of all: Why do you do it?

"First do no harm", is the Hippocratic oath, the most basic principle of medicine. It's wisdom beyond words. What you are doing, Ben, is reversing the question, asking: what the fuck, why not?

We have many medical practices that we have visited over the ages. Bleeding was once thought to be curative, but when it was found to be counterproductive the practice was abandoned. The exception, and what keeps these false practices going, is culture or religion. FGM survives because of a host of norms about raising female children in certain cultures. MGM survives by an even more powerful notion: the Jewish god commands it.

There are two answers to your question: (1) altering the state of nature, without cause, appears to be troubling, or at least runs the risk of unintended consequences; and (2) circumcision does indeed do the same thing in males as in females: removes the ability to feel sexual pleasure. The first is self-evident, but the second reason applies to both genders:

In "The Book of the Penis," author Maggie Paley dedicates a brief section to circumcision, foreskins and the effects they have on female sexual pleasure. "Foreskins don't matter that much to most women," Paley concluded. "When it comes to penises, women can get used to almost anything."

Paley probably understated the case. Women really do care, if you bother to ask, but in most cases their experience is limited to circumcised men. Especially if they're American and older than 25.

Starting in the postwar years and peaking in the 1960s, circumcision was de rigueur for American male infants. Ninety percent of new parents opted to alter the penis, believing it was the hygienic choice. By 2003, because of changing attitudes and a large influx of Asian and Latin American immigrants who traditionally do not circumcise, that number dropped to 55.9 percent.

I wrote about the shift in a June 21 Chronicle article, "Circumcision losing favor with U.S. parents," and the e-mail response was huge. Men bemoaned their parents' choice. Women advocated for foreskin restoration. Doctors and parents disputed the urologist quoted, who denied that circumcision is "brutal."

People are vociferous on the foreskin question, none more than Kristen O'Hara, the author of "Sex as Nature Intended It" (2002), in which she claims women are more likely to enjoy intercourse if their male partner is uncircumcised.

"On the natural penis," O'Hara writes on her Web site, sexasnatureintendedit.com, "the soft, flexible foreskin cushions the coronal-ridge hook (of the penis head, or glans) and prevents it from scraping the vaginal walls, giving only pleasure, not soreness. ... The loose, pliable foreskin bunches up on the outward stroke to create a seal that holds fluids in. Lubrication stays inside the vagina."

For years, O'Hara says, she suffered pain and discomfort during sex with her husband. She wondered if the problem was hers. The problem, she finally concluded, wasn't her own dysfunction -- what psychologists used to call "frigidity" -- but "the abnormal structure of the circumcised penis."

So circumcision has a profound effect on both sexes; it destroys the effect for females as well as males.

There are other issues we can cover in another discussion. For example, altering another’s body without his/her consent is truly criminal; it is a crime, therefore, to perform any surgery not for immediate clinical reasons, on children unable to give lawful consent. Also, there are many benefits that are destroyed by circumcision, such avoiding infection and protecting the glans.

But enough said for now.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:28 pm

Thor wrote:
Vintage wrote:While male circumcision is wrong you really can't compare it with what happens to females and the ongoing health consequences of the mutilation of girls. The removal of the prepuce can be compared to male circumcision but after that there is no comparison at all as the aim is to reduce or remove any sexual desire in women. The most severe cutting removes all the genitalia and then sews up the opening leaving only a opening of approx. a match head to enable menstrual flow and urination which being inadequate causes all sorts of infections. Its a disgusting custom carried on mostly by women but kept going because men won't marry girls who haven't been cut.

+1

This will interest you and show the lunancy of some of the left on this. Who defend FGM basaed on cultural relativism

It also shows up the idiocy of Quills points here


Posted agai to show what Joe rogan thinks of Quill

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Syl on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:34 pm

Comparing male circumcision to FGM is a bit like comparing a cut finger to a decapitated hand. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Not everyone likes me, but not everyone matters.

Syl

Posts : 19565
Join date : 2015-11-12
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:39 pm

Didge, re: your clip, right focus.  But he has never met me.

Also, he squanders the opportunity by getting inside own 'cultural relativism'.  The issue isn't just that "it's different," but how is it different?

Those details matter.  That's why I go into such great medical detail, in order to discuss the values that arise and why.

He's just: them bad, me good!  As I say, his own 'cultural relativism'.

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:43 pm

Original Quill wrote:Didge, re: your clip, right focus.  But he has never met me.

Also, he squanders the opportunity by getting inside own 'cultural relativism'.  The issue isn't just that "it's different," but how is it different?

Those details matter.  That's why I go into such great medical detail, in order to discuss the values that arise and why.

He's just: them bad, me good!  As I say, his own 'cultural relativism'.

Everyone is focused here, showing you are making a dumb false equivalency, because you want to down play the nightmare of FGM

In fact you have done everything to divert talking about FGM

It shows what is wrong with the mind set of some of the left

This is about FGM, which causes many medical as well as problems sexually for women

In no way is Circumcision comparable to FGM

Hence why everyone is ridiculiing you here

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by Original Quill on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:48 pm

Didge wrote:Hence why everyone is ridiculiing you here

What a stupid thing to say. Are you at a loss for debate points?

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald J. Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

Normal is broken.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
Original Quill
Original Quill

Posts : 30212
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 54
Location : Northern California

Back to top Go down

Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd Empty Re: Over a Hundre Thousand Victims in the Uk and Only one Conviction to Date - First FGM conviction in UK as mother faces 'lengthy' jail sentence dd

Post by phildidge on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:51 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Hence why everyone is ridiculiing you here

What a stupid thing to say.  Are you at a loss for debate points?

Everyone has made points to show up the idiocy of your views

I mean for you to constantly divert away from the problem of FGM shows up the stupoid and idiotic mindset of apologists like you.

So nobody is at a loss. Y ou need to be told, you are being a complete dick

Its that simple

phildidge

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2018-11-16

Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum