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Post by Vintage on Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:41 pm

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/police-investigate-claim-fox-was-killed-during-chester-trial-hunt/ar-BBRQmHq?ocid=spartandhp
Like anyone will ever be prosecuted for this kind of thing. The hunt goes out and supposedly follows a drag trail, suddenly a fox is either scared out of cover or the hounds follow a fox trail, either way its reckoned nothing can really be done to stop the dogs once they get a trail, no one knows it a fox trail until its caught up with and its then too late to intervene. Not trying too hard I would say.

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Post by nicko on Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:47 am

I am not defending Fox hunting, but if a fox keeps killing your Lambs [or Chickens] you have to stop it.
You can put down Poison, horrible way to die, you can Gas the Earth, Ditto, You can shoot him, but even the best Marksman cannot make a clean kill every time ! [If they say they can, they are liars] . The only way to be sure of a kill every time is with Hounds. The first Hound to catch, kills at once, with a bite to the neck, [they do worry the body afterwards] but it is dead. I don't like it myself, but the Fox is dead , and that's the whole purpose of the Hunt, isn't it ?
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Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:28 am

I'm very much against fox hunting. Let's not fudge the issue....it's done for the entertainment of the oiks on horseback under the guise of 'culling'.
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Post by phildidge on Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:33 am

Factual point

Predatory animals tear apart animal prey already

I agree some find this based on a need for sport, but is it really wrong in what happens to animals daily?

Seriously?

As Nicko says, hounds would naturally rip apart  prey animals. Yes they have been trained to kill foxes,. but they are now a pest. One that humans have created themselves through urbinization

Animals already are in fear when chased by predators and yet now the fox is a pest

Hence why I have nothing against fox hunting

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:36 am

HoratioTarr wrote:I'm very much against fox hunting.   Let's not fudge the issue....it's done for the entertainment of the oiks on horseback under the guise of 'culling'.  

Me too. I don't know how anyone can defend it, especially as it's against the law to hunt with dogs.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:40 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:I'm very much against fox hunting.   Let's not fudge the issue....it's done for the entertainment of the oiks on horseback under the guise of 'culling'.  

Me too. I don't know how anyone can defend it, especially as it's against the law to hunt with dogs.


Sadly humans have made through urbinization foxes to be prolific. Its unbalanced nature

So have nothing against culling them

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Post by Vintage on Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:59 pm

It may be the quickest way to kill a fox but its rarely the actual fox that has caused anyone trouble. Foxes have their territory but there's a lot of crossover. The hunts range over a large area and if they find a fox to hunt it can be way out of the area where there may have been a problem so it probably isn't the pest fox.
As for hunter animals preying on other creatures i haven't seen them making a social event out of it and the animal killed is at least eaten.
I know that at one time we had few foxes around here and we had them brought in from the Bristol area and let go just before the hunt started  hardly sporting, foxes were also encouraged to breed in an area, places were prepared as dens and food was left, then they were hunted again not exactly sporting. Then we have the terrier men who use their dogs to find the fox and drag it out of the earth or they will actually dig it out so the hunt can pursue it.

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Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:36 pm

It's not the ripping apart of the fox...foxes do that to their own prey. It's the human joy at chasing a wild animal to exhaustion, then revelling in it being torn apart in front of them and blooding a hunt virgin. It's all about human beings getting their rocks off by the death of a helpless animal. Like hare coursing, bull fighting, bear baiting, dog fights...all for entertainment.

The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable indeed.
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:46 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:It's not the ripping apart of the fox...foxes do that to their own prey.  It's the human joy at chasing a wild animal to exhaustion, then revelling in it being torn apart in front of them and blooding a hunt virgin.   It's all about human beings getting their rocks off by the death of a helpless animal.    Like hare coursing, bull fighting, bear baiting, dog fights...all for entertainment.  

The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable indeed.

Which is, of course, why it was made illegal...and like any law it should be enforced (though I do have to remind everyone that the main motivation behind Labour's Bill was - as a very senior member of the party subsequently admitted when he didn't think he was being overheard! - just as much, if not more, as revenge against the Tories for Margaret Thatcher's defeat of the miners than in any interests of wildlife preservation.)

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Post by Syl on Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:42 pm

Fox hunting with hounds is barbaric.
If a fox is targeting a farmers stock obviously it should be stopped even killed as humanely as possible, but to pretend you are helping the farmers by ridding the countryside of foxes by actively encouraging them, then getting a sexual thrill by seeing them torn apart, is disgusting and pathetic.


Anyone who defends it is an idiot.

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Post by nicko on Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:25 pm

I don't defend it, but a Fox looks like a Dog, maybe that's why killing them upsets people. If it looked like a big Rat it would be a different matter, Wouldn't it ?
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Post by HoratioTarr on Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:51 pm

nicko wrote:I don't defend it, but a Fox looks like a Dog,  maybe that's why killing them upsets people.  If it looked like a big Rat it would be a different matter, Wouldn't it ?

No. A hare looks more like a rat and that's cruel too.
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Post by Syl on Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:55 pm

nicko wrote:I don't defend it, but a Fox looks like a Dog,  maybe that's why killing them upsets people.  If it looked like a big Rat it would be a different matter, Wouldn't it ?

It's not really the fact they are killed Nicko, it's how they are killed, and for the pleasure of the fat arsed upper classes. (or anyone else who derives pleasure from killing innocent creatures)

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Post by phildidge on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:40 pm

Syl wrote:
nicko wrote:I don't defend it, but a Fox looks like a Dog,  maybe that's why killing them upsets people.  If it looked like a big Rat it would be a different matter, Wouldn't it ?

It's not really the fact they are killed Nicko, it's how they are killed, and for the pleasure of the fat arsed upper classes. (or anyone else who derives pleasure from killing innocent creatures)

I dont get any pleasure from seeing anything killed, but I certainly dont care in how animals kill other animals

Foxes are a pest and what ever way you cull them, they will suffer.

They need to be culled and they certainly take pleasure in killing chickens for fun

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Post by Andy on Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:21 pm

Think there few who actually condone and approve of fox hunting.
Probably the same weird people who also consider Muslims as vermin.

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Post by phildidge on Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:26 pm

Andy wrote:Think there few who actually condone and approve of fox hunting.
Probably the same weird  people who also consider Muslims as vermin.

And this is why comments like this deserve you being told to grow up

Does this look like I think Muslims are vermin?

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t25902-volunteer-this-winter

Of course not, but you love to stoke up more hate by lying, because you are full of hate

The reason I am actually neutral on fox hunting, is because I eat meat and thus can hardly say anything, as animals are killed in order that I eat meat.

In other words, it would make me a hypocrite

The point is I am indifferent to other animals killing other animals.

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Post by Vintage on Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:34 pm

No they don't enjoy killing for fun, they don't kill everything when the birds can get away, being enclosed in a shed or fenced in there's no were to go, the chickens panic and understandably flap and cluck and rush around the fox goes into overdrive and does its worst.
A farmer friend has had vixens raising cubs under one of his sheds for years they don't bother the chickens. He won't have the hunt on his land far more disruptive than foxes he reckons. More new born lambs are killed or maimed by crows and dogs, foxes often come along and take or feed on dead lambs and are then blamed for killing them.

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Post by phildidge on Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:42 pm

Vintage wrote:No they don't enjoy killing for fun, they don't kill everything when the birds can get away, being enclosed in a shed or fenced in there's no were to go, the chickens panic and understandably flap and cluck and rush around the fox goes into overdrive and does its worst.
A farmer friend has had vixens raising cubs under one of his sheds  for years they don't bother the chickens. He won't have the hunt on his land far more disruptive than foxes he reckons.  More new born lambs are killed or maimed by crows and dogs, foxes often come along and take or feed on dead lambs and are then blamed for killing them.  

The foxes still go out to kill all and do not need to Vintage

Many animals have been known to kill for fun (or for the sake of simple killing) or what is called surplus killing, and foxes are one of the species that actually do

Cats even kill for fun

The point is being a meat eater, I really have little to argue against on this, when I allow animals to be killed in order that I eat

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Post by phildidge on Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:45 pm

Foxes are known for being very clever animals, and also for being agile hunters. For the most part, foxes have to scrape and search for food, especially during cold winters. However, in Australia, the winters aren't generally cold or harsh, and foxes end up being one of the most harmful invasive species the country has.

Foxes have shown on multiple occasions that they are not above surplus killing. They have killed tens of wallabies in a single night without eating a single one. They have attacked chicken coops and then eaten only one or two of the dead birds. In one particularly horrifying incident in 1994, about 1800 little penguins had come ashore to lay their eggs on Granite Island in South Australia. Things were going fine until a fox managed to get onto the island by means of a causeway. Over the course of the next three days, the fox killed 74 penguins, only eating a few. It seems the rest of them were just killed for grins, then left there to rot.

https://www.ranker.com/list/animals-that-kill-for-no-reason/laura-allan

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Post by nicko on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:04 am

H/T, a Hare looks like a Rat ?
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Post by Andy on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:43 am

Read this and weep.
Sick hunters actively breed foxes for the hunt, of use fake dens to capture them ready for release to kill.

https://mol.im/a/6564389

And some still try to justify hunting.

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Post by Andy on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:50 am

Many years ago, the local hunt regularly trespassesd across farmers fields, which he had told them was prohibited.
The hunt trailed across the cricket ground I played at, trashing the square, at a cost of over £5k to repair it.
My club installed a stout fence.
It did not stop them.
We put up signs to stop them.
This failed to.
We topped the fence with barbed wire, again with warning signs.
They were WARNED.
They STILL tried to tresspass and cross our privately owned ground, but a couple of horses and a few dogs got injured before the hunters finally got the message. The hunters were banned from local pubs and the local Co-op.
They acted as if they owned the entire countryside and were out of control.
Eventually they were disbanded .

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:52 am

Andy wrote:Read this and weep.
Sick hunters actively breed foxes for the hunt, of use fake dens to capture them ready for release to kill.

https://mol.im/a/6564389

And some still try to justify hunting.


There are many justifications for hunting

Are you going to claim indegeneous tribes are sick now?

Also do you eat meat?

If so, then it would make you a complete hypocrite

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Post by Andy on Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:09 am

Dont be such a cretin.
Humans are omnivores, and have been meat farming for 10's of thousands of years.

You already know there is a huge difference between farming for meat for sustinence against hunting for the THRILL of watching an exhausted animal being ripped apart.

But you just want to argue.

I am off out all day, so you will have to argue with someone else.

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Fox hunting Empty Re: Fox hunting

Post by phildidge on Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:20 am

Andy wrote:Dont be such a cretin.
Humans are omnivores, and have been meat farming for 10's of thousands of years.

You already know there is a huge difference between farming for meat for sustinence against hunting for the THRILL of watching an exhausted animal being ripped apart.

But you just want to argue.

I am off out all day, so you will have to argue with someone else.


Which really shows how dumb you are

You think humans started out straight with farming?#
Humans have been hunting meat, since they learnt to stand on two legs

Its also how the human brain advanced through hunting technics developed.

In other words, we would not be the intelligence species today with out hunting

Sadly humans have most advanced themselves through conflict

Fuck me, do you need to go back to school

There is zero difference, as the animal is always killed

I mean slitting the thriat the animal chokes to death on its own blood

Stunning, well I suggest you allow electrodes to your balls and stun yourself and let me know how that feels

The animal is killed, but then you rely on emotive reasoning instead of rational reasoning here


Last edited by Thor on Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:21 am

nicko wrote:H/T, a Hare looks like a Rat ?  

Short eared, stump tailed pygmy rat?
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Post by phildidge on Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:23 am

I wonder if anyone would really object if it was rat hunting

Or spider hunting instead?

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Post by nicko on Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:44 am

No one would object if it was Rat hunting, I repeat,
a fox looks like a Dog, that's why it arouses such sympathy !
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Post by Syl on Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:03 pm

Thor wrote:I wonder if anyone would really object if it was rat hunting

Or spider hunting instead?

I'm sure many people would object if any species  was hunted and ripped apart to give onlookers some sort of perverted thrill.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:42 pm

Syl wrote:
Thor wrote:I wonder if anyone would really object if it was rat hunting

Or spider hunting instead?

I'm sure many people would object if any species  was hunted and ripped apart to give onlookers some sort of perverted thrill.

Are you sure people would object to rats being hunted for sport?

I very much doubt they would object and its not done for some perverted thrill

All animals rip apart their prey, why do you object when hounds do so?

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Post by Syl on Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:49 pm

Thor wrote:
Syl wrote:

I'm sure many people would object if any species  was hunted and ripped apart to give onlookers some sort of perverted thrill.

Are you sure people would object to rats being hunted for sport?

I very much doubt they would object and its not done for some perverted thrill

All animals rip apart their prey, why do you object when hounds do so?

Yes I do think many people would be disgusted if rats were ripped apart for human pleasure.
The hounds are trained to do it to satisfy the blood lust of the hunters.

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:53 pm

Syl wrote:
Thor wrote:

Are you sure people would object to rats being hunted for sport?

I very much doubt they would object and its not done for some perverted thrill

All animals rip apart their prey, why do you object when hounds do so?

Yes I do think many people would be disgusted if rats were ripped apart for human pleasure.
The hounds are trained to do it to satisfy the blood lust of the hunters.


Domestic Cats already rip apart mice and birds. Why would you think people would object to rats, who are bigger?

The last statement is the most absurd statement I have ever heard

Have you ever understood how dogs were domesticated in the first place, being that they are a predatory animal?

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Post by nicko on Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:14 pm

ALL Dogs are descended from Wolves, who rip apart their pray, big animals like Deer, Elk, Bison etc are brought down and eaten alive, as they are too big to have their necks snapped. That to me is cruel, but isn't to the Wolves, it's natural! Getting back to Fox hounds, the first hound to reach the Fox will grab it by the neck and bite and shake it, [we have all seen your pet dog shake things to kill it] . Nature is red in tooth and claw !
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Post by phildidge on Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:18 pm

You see the problem with this argument, is as per usual people are always too emotive.

Now around 400,000 foxes die each year. Whether that be through road kills (around 100K) to being shot, to natural deaths.

Why are not people up in arms to ban all transports on road, which do horrific injuries to over a million animals each year?

Because people show a complete double standard, as they do when they eat meat

Fox hunting even when legal, amounted to around 21,000 foxes killed per year.

So where is the outrage at 5 times that number being killed on the roads each year?

As nicko rightly says, this is more on how people perceive and like an animal.

I doubt many stop here, when they see a road kill and properly bury the animal, do they?

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Post by Syl on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:26 pm

We are all aware of how animals hunt and kill...it's their natural instinct. 
The difference with fox hunting is it's organised by HUMAN BEINGS .. for sport, simply because these cretins get a thrill out of seeing wild animals being ripped apart. Rolling Eyes

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Post by phildidge on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:28 pm

Syl wrote:We are all aware of how animals hunt and kill...it's their natural instinct. 
The difference with fox hunting is it's organised by HUMAN BEINGS .. for sport, simply because these cretins get a thrill out of seeing wild animals being ripped apart. Rolling Eyes


But carried out by dogs already with a natural instinct to kill other lesser prey

So again, do you not even think about this?

What would have happened if humans had not domesticated the wolf, to then have dogs?

Most wolf's were domesticated for hunting

You do realise this?

Now again, why are you not up in arms at the hundreds of thousands of foxes killed each year not by fox hunting?

When are you going to learn this is what predatory animals do to other animals?

Rip them apart

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Post by Syl on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:52 am

Thor wrote:
Syl wrote:We are all aware of how animals hunt and kill...it's their natural instinct. 
The difference with fox hunting is it's organised by HUMAN BEINGS .. for sport, simply because these cretins get a thrill out of seeing wild animals being ripped apart. Rolling Eyes


But carried out by dogs already with a natural instinct to kill other lesser prey

So again, do you not even think about this?

What would have happened if humans had not domesticated the wolf, to then have dogs?

Most wolf's were domesticated for hunting

You do realise this?

Now again, why are you not up in arms at the hundreds of thousands of foxes killed each year not by fox hunting?

When are you going to learn this is what predatory animals do to other animals?

Rip them apart

As you dont seem to be able to differentiate between how wild animals act to the way a civilised human should  act, the discussion is pointless.

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Post by phildidge on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:15 am

Syl wrote:
Thor wrote:


But carried out by dogs already with a natural instinct to kill other lesser prey

So again, do you not even think about this?

What would have happened if humans had not domesticated the wolf, to then have dogs?

Most wolf's were domesticated for hunting

You do realise this?

Now again, why are you not up in arms at the hundreds of thousands of foxes killed each year not by fox hunting?

When are you going to learn this is what predatory animals do to other animals?

Rip them apart

As you dont seem to be able to differentiate between how wild animals act to the way a civilised human should  act, the discussion is pointless.


Which is odd, considering you have zero iunderstanding around the nature of animals

Talk about avoiding yet again all points raised to you

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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:23 am

nicko wrote:ALL Dogs are descended from Wolves,   who rip apart their pray,  big animals like Deer, Elk, Bison etc are brought down and eaten alive,  as they are too big to have their necks snapped. That to me is cruel, but isn't to the Wolves, it's natural! Getting back to Fox hounds,  the first hound to reach the Fox will grab it by the neck and bite and shake it, [we have all seen your pet dog shake things to kill it] . Nature is red in tooth and claw !  

That's certainly true. When I first met my late wife she had a fierce Jack Russell terrier called Micky, whose job was killing rats on the farm. One shake, and goodbye Roland.

Unfortunately for me, however, the little bastard obviously mistook my ankle for a rat when I paid my first visit to her house, and what should have been an exquisite evening of love ended up with my future wife dabbing antiseptic on deep puncture wounds to my ankle and mopping blood off her parents' expensive carpet.

Quite why we got married after that I'll never know, because bloody Micky turned out to be part of the package and I was stuck with the little sod until he snuffed it.
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Fox hunting Empty Re: Fox hunting

Post by Syl on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:37 am

Fred Moletrousers wrote:
nicko wrote:ALL Dogs are descended from Wolves,   who rip apart their pray,  big animals like Deer, Elk, Bison etc are brought down and eaten alive,  as they are too big to have their necks snapped. That to me is cruel, but isn't to the Wolves, it's natural! Getting back to Fox hounds,  the first hound to reach the Fox will grab it by the neck and bite and shake it, [we have all seen your pet dog shake things to kill it] . Nature is red in tooth and claw !  

That's certainly true. When I first met my late wife she had a fierce Jack Russell terrier called Micky, whose job was killing rats on the farm. One shake, and goodbye Roland.

Unfortunately for me, however, the little bastard obviously mistook my ankle for a rat when I paid my first visit to her house, and what should have been an exquisite evening of love ended up with my future wife dabbing antiseptic on deep puncture wounds to my ankle and mopping blood off her parents' expensive carpet.

Quite why we got married after that I'll never know, because bloody Micky turned out to be part of the package and I was stuck with the little sod until he snuffed it.

lol!

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:49 am

nicko wrote:ALL Dogs are descended from Wolves,   who rip apart their pray,  big animals like Deer, Elk, Bison etc are brought down and eaten alive,  as they are too big to have their necks snapped.

Donno about wolves on bison, nicko.  First, bison can run more than 50-Km per hour, second, they have the stamina to can keep it up for hours, third, they have extra thick skin which is impossible for a wolf to penetrate, forth, they have a kick-ass kick that can break a wolf's neck in a blink, and fifth, bison have a very aggressive herd instinct...not like sheep or cows...they use the herd to attack, not defend.

There may be occasional strays and weaklings, young or old, but lord help the wolf pack that faces down a couple of prime bulls.  It's kinda like lions and hyenas...when that big male sorts out the female pack leader, her neck is crushed in a massive jaw and the pack gets it's collective ass outta there, tout suite.

lol!

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Post by phildidge on Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:08 am

Original Quill wrote:
nicko wrote:ALL Dogs are descended from Wolves,   who rip apart their pray,  big animals like Deer, Elk, Bison etc are brought down and eaten alive,  as they are too big to have their necks snapped.

Donno about wolves on bison, nicko.  First, bison can run more than 50-Km per hour, second, they have the stamina to can keep it up for hours, third, they have extra thick skin which is impossible for a wolf to penetrate, forth, they have a kick-ass kick that can break a wolf's neck in a blink, and fifth, bison have a very aggressive herd instinct...not like sheep or cows...they use the herd to attack, not defend.

There may be occasional strays and weaklings, young or old, but lord help the wolf pack that faces down a couple of prime bulls.  It's kinda like lions and hyenas...when that big male sorts out the female pack leader, her neck is crushed in a massive jaw and the pack gets it's collective ass outta there, tout suite.

lol!


You may find this interesting to watch mate.

Also have you ever seen before when lions take down elephants?

Now that is amasing to watch




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Post by nicko on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:02 am

I learnt a lot from watching Wildlife programs, and a bit more from my own experiences !
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Post by Fred Moletrousers on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:03 am

nicko wrote:I learnt a lot from watching Wildlife programs,  and a bit more from my own experiences !

One of my "experiences" with foxes was going into my late wife's pedigree duck shed one morning and finding that "Charlie" (a country term for foxes named after Whig politician Charles Fox) had killed or seriously mauled 20 out of 22 very expensive breeding birds, leaving with just one for his dinner.

They are vicious killers, but they are a beautiful animal and I love to see them out in the fields and woods around my house.
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Post by nicko on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:40 pm

One come into my garden almost every night, I'v watched on cctv as my Cat walks up to him and either just sniffs at him or flies at him with claws extended. Depends on how my Cat feels I suppose !
I once watched him chase a Fox down our road when one of them snarled at the small Female cat I had .
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Post by Syl on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:36 pm

We had a fox cross the back garden every winters night at 5.20pm for ages, he used to turn the security light on, same time every night. Then he must have changd his routine and came no more, but we used to see his tracks across the field if it had been snowing.
Saw just one fox recently, he was lay under the conifer, when he saw us he limped off....he was beautiful though.

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