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Post by Syl on Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:54 pm

A scheme started a couple of years ago in the UK has now been adopted by other countries, the aim is to help women who feel vulnerable out on a date, to have a pass word to let pub, restaurant or club staff know they feel unsafe.
This scheme was launched in Australia back in July to some praise and criticism.

All the woman has to do is approach a staff member and 'Ask for Angela'. The staff in some venues have been trained to spot this as a sign for help and make sure the woman is taken to a place where she feels safe. It should be practiced nationwide imo.

Good idea or bad?

Ask for Angela. 4e108a10

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/this-does-nothing-to-address-australias-epidemic-of-coercion-control-and-violence-against-women/news-story/69b7b6d8274dde7655194d50b119511a



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5934607/Ask-Angela-Women-risk-urged-utter-one-safe-word-bar-staff.html

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Post by Guest on Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:21 pm



Bad idea

firstly all the potential pervs/weirdos are also going to be aware of this scheme.

temp staff (of which there are a lot) in restaurants and bars will not necessarily know.

furthermore, in my opinion, it would be far more empowering to women who feel vulnerable or feel that they may at some point feel vulnerable in the future to attend some kind of assertiveness classes so that they are able to actually say to the person concerned. ''sorry, i need to call a cab, this isnt working for me'' or whatever.


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Post by Syl on Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:59 pm

gelico wrote:

Bad idea

firstly all the potential pervs/weirdos are also going to be aware of this scheme.

temp staff (of which there are a lot) in restaurants and bars will not necessarily know.

furthermore, in my opinion, it would be far more empowering to women who feel vulnerable or feel that they may at some point feel vulnerable in the future to attend some kind of assertiveness classes so that they are able to actually say to the person concerned.  ''sorry, i need to call a cab, this isnt working for me'' or whatever.


Yes I agree, in an ideal world no woman would be scared to detach herself from a bad date.

But in this age of strangers meeting through the internet, and especially around this time of year, I do think it's a good idea though to make staff aware that a safe word means a woman feels intimidated. It wouldn't be hard to let temp staff know, and I just think it would do more good than harm.

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Post by Syl on Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:08 pm

The figures for women being sexually assaulted in England and Wales alone are alarming.
Any scheme that stops a woman ending up as a statistic is good imo.

Its estimated that 4 out of 5 women dont report rape or sexual abuse...so this is just the tip of the iceberg.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/08/sexual-assault-women-crime-survey-england-wales-ons-police-figures

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Post by nicko on Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:31 pm

Bet Eddie would just say "fuck off" Laughing
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Post by Original Quill on Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:14 pm

I see a situation comedy in the making.  Unfortunately, it's not all funny.  I think the answer is for women to become more assertive.  You may be rude, but you're honest.

She: "Look, I'm uncomfortable talking about penis sizes of dinosaurs."
He: "Wha..."
She: "Waiter, please call a cab for me.  I'll be out by the reception desk."

Short.  Quick.  Direct...minimal words exchanged...fewer bad feelings.

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Post by Syl on Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:50 am

I think maybe some people find it hard to put themselves in the shoes of a woman who feels pressured and intimidated. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Syl on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:22 pm

I wonder if the young backpacker who was recently murdered in NZ had had the opportunity to extract herself from her date the outcome may have been different.
The ever present danger of meeting up with  strangers you have only previously spoken to online is a real threat nowadays.
We dont know what happened yet, but we do know she was vulnerable and she paid the price.
I think any opportunity to help a young girl or woman out of a bad situation with a date that she may instinctively feel isnt going well  is worth encouraging.

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Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:I see a situation comedy in the making.  Unfortunately, it's not all funny.  I think the answer is for women to become more assertive.  You may be rude, but you're honest.

She: "Look, I'm uncomfortable talking about penis sizes of dinosaurs."
He: "Wha..."
She: "Waiter, please call a cab for me.  I'll be out by the reception desk."

Short.  Quick.  Direct...minimal words exchanged...fewer bad feelings.

See Martha says ''what would you like to talk about?'' and while pondering the question Arthur spots a biro on the table and before he decides to start a topic, what Arthur had actually said was ''There's a pen on the side, is it mine or yours?'' but what with all the noise in the pub, Martha completely misheard

can cause all manner of trigger situations

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Post by Syl on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:25 pm

Rolling Eyes

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:32 pm

Shouldn't the emphasis be on not meeting strange people from the internet?

I don't really get why the bar staff need to have this code. Can't women call their own taxis? If they can't, they could just ask bar staff for the number of the local taxi firm.

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Post by Syl on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:33 pm

I feel quite strongly about this.
When I worked in night clubs (back in the day) I helped a couple of young women on separate occasions escape a bad date by befriending them.
OK it was harder to slip away then, no one had mobile phones to discreetly call a cab or a friend, but the situation must be just as scary now.

Maybe if it was your own daughter in this situation people may have a bit more sympathy for young vulnerable girls who didnt have the nerve to just tell someone to piss off and walk out.  Ask for Angela. 2190311264

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Post by Syl on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Shouldn't the emphasis be on not meeting strange people from the internet?

I don't really get why the bar staff need to have this code. Can't women call their own taxis? If they can't, they could just ask bar staff for the number of the local taxi firm.

People do meet others from the internet though, dating sites have milions of members.

I dont see the big deal about giving staff a safe word or code and advertising it so women know they can use it.
Most staff who work in pubs/clubs/restaurants would be happy to help Im sure.

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Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:57 pm

Syl wrote:I feel quite strongly about this.
When I worked in night clubs (back in the day) I helped a couple of young women on separate occasions escape a bad date by befriending them.
OK it was harder to slip away then, no one had mobile phones to discreetly call a cab or a friend, but the situation must be just as scary now.

Maybe if it was your own daughter in this situation people may have a bit more sympathy for young vulnerable girls who didnt have the nerve to just tell someone to piss off and walk out.  Ask for Angela. 2190311264

i get what you're saying syl, but weirdos aren't necessarily going to show their true colours on a first date anyway. much more likely that they will put on a very good act. secondly the whole point of dating agencies advising women to always meet in a public place is to ensure that they don't feel vulnerable as they are surrounded by people. if a woman is that incapable of just saying, ''sorry i have to go'' and doing that then she shouldn't be doing this. if a woman is prepared to go meet a complete stranger then just how vulnerable is she? the man may well feel just as vulnerable. If that's honestly how you feel then i would say dont go. join local interest groups and get to know people gradually

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:11 pm

nicko wrote:Bet Eddie would just say "fuck off"   Laughing

Of course she would you DICKHEAD!

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Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:59 pm

Syl wrote:
gelico wrote:

Bad idea

firstly all the potential pervs/weirdos are also going to be aware of this scheme.

temp staff (of which there are a lot) in restaurants and bars will not necessarily know.

furthermore, in my opinion, it would be far more empowering to women who feel vulnerable or feel that they may at some point feel vulnerable in the future to attend some kind of assertiveness classes so that they are able to actually say to the person concerned.  ''sorry, i need to call a cab, this isnt working for me'' or whatever.


Yes I agree, in an ideal world no woman would be scared to detach herself from a bad date.

But in this age of strangers meeting through the internet, and especially around this time of year, I do think it's a good idea though to make staff aware that a safe word means a woman feels intimidated. It wouldn't be hard to let temp staff know, and I just think it would do more good than harm.

I hate to say this but this is more about being aware at a personal level, and taking responsibility for your own safety. For starters, you always meet your date in a very public place and say no, if they want to walk/drive you home. You let your family and friends know where you are meeting them, their photo and details, what time etc. And keep the first date short. Then you suss them out and go from there. It's not everyone else's responsibility to keep you safe. If you feel unsafe, sure, go ask for help but you can't go on a bloody date, tell the staff you're on a first date and not sure etc, then expect them to keep an eye on you?

I think the app may be a good idea for information but that's all.
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Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:02 pm

And what if some mean spirited bitch decided to do this to some poor innocent guy?
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Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:03 pm

And then what if your name really IS Angela?    Imagine the confusion.
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Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:06 pm

Syl wrote:I think maybe some people find it hard to put themselves in the shoes of a woman who feels pressured and intimidated. Rolling Eyes

If you can't say no to some guy on a date....don't do internet dating.
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Post by Syl on Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:42 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

Yes I agree, in an ideal world no woman would be scared to detach herself from a bad date.

But in this age of strangers meeting through the internet, and especially around this time of year, I do think it's a good idea though to make staff aware that a safe word means a woman feels intimidated. It wouldn't be hard to let temp staff know, and I just think it would do more good than harm.

I hate to say this but this is more about being aware at a personal level, and taking responsibility for your own safety. For starters, you always meet your date in a very public place and say no, if they want to walk/drive you home. You let your family and friends know where you are meeting them, their photo and details, what time etc. And keep the first date short. Then you suss them out and go from there. It's not everyone else's responsibility to keep you safe. If you feel unsafe, sure, go ask for help but you can't go on a bloody date, tell the staff you're on a first date and not sure etc, then expect them to keep an eye on you?

I think the app may be a good idea for information but that's all.

It's not about expecting bar staff to babysit you for goodness sake, it's about letting them know in a subtle way without involving anyone else you need a cab home because you dont feel safe in some way
I really cant see the problem.

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Post by Syl on Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:48 pm

gelico wrote:
Syl wrote:I feel quite strongly about this.
When I worked in night clubs (back in the day) I helped a couple of young women on separate occasions escape a bad date by befriending them.
OK it was harder to slip away then, no one had mobile phones to discreetly call a cab or a friend, but the situation must be just as scary now.

Maybe if it was your own daughter in this situation people may have a bit more sympathy for young vulnerable girls who didnt have the nerve to just tell someone to piss off and walk out.  Ask for Angela. 2190311264

i get what you're saying syl, but weirdos aren't necessarily going to show their true colours on a first date anyway.  much more likely that they will put on a very good act.  secondly the whole point of dating agencies advising women to always meet in a public place is to ensure that they don't feel vulnerable as they are surrounded by people.  if a woman is that incapable of just saying, ''sorry i have to go'' and doing that then she shouldn't be doing this.  if a woman is prepared to go meet a complete stranger then just how vulnerable is she?  the man may well feel just as vulnerable.  If that's honestly how you feel then i would say dont go.  join local interest groups and get to know people gradually

I just think if any girl can be helped out of a situation if her instincts are telling her something isn't right...it cant be a bad thing.
It's easy to handle situations if you are feisty, or experienced, or simply dont put yourself in the situation where you are alone on a date with someone you have only met online....it seems to be a different social world out there to when me and probably you did our dating when we were young.
I just dont think women handle things as well as we did back then.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:38 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I hate to say this but this is more about being aware at a personal level, and taking responsibility for your own safety.   For starters, you always meet your date in a very public place and say no, if they want to walk/drive you home.   You let your family and friends know where you are meeting them, their photo and details, what time etc.   And keep the first date short.    Then you suss them out and go from there.  It's not everyone else's responsibility to keep you safe.   If you feel unsafe, sure, go ask for help but you can't go on a bloody date, tell the staff you're on a first date and not sure etc, then expect them to keep an eye on you?

I think the app may be a good idea for information but that's all.

It's not about expecting bar staff to babysit you for goodness sake, it's about letting them know in a subtle way without involving anyone else you need a cab home because you dont feel safe in some way
I really cant see the problem.

Why is it up to bar staff to provide a taxi? Any woman going out on her own should make sure she can call a taxi herself if she needs to.

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Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:45 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

I hate to say this but this is more about being aware at a personal level, and taking responsibility for your own safety.   For starters, you always meet your date in a very public place and say no, if they want to walk/drive you home.   You let your family and friends know where you are meeting them, their photo and details, what time etc.   And keep the first date short.    Then you suss them out and go from there.  It's not everyone else's responsibility to keep you safe.   If you feel unsafe, sure, go ask for help but you can't go on a bloody date, tell the staff you're on a first date and not sure etc, then expect them to keep an eye on you?

I think the app may be a good idea for information but that's all.

It's not about expecting bar staff to babysit you for goodness sake, it's about letting them know in a subtle way without involving anyone else you need a cab home because you dont feel safe in some way
I really cant see the problem.

But you are involving them. If the man is a nutter, do you think calling a cab might make a difference? What if he's violent. What if he follows her home? Who will help her then? It should be more about keeping yourself safe in the first place, surely?
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Post by HoratioTarr on Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:47 pm

Syl wrote:
gelico wrote:

i get what you're saying syl, but weirdos aren't necessarily going to show their true colours on a first date anyway.  much more likely that they will put on a very good act.  secondly the whole point of dating agencies advising women to always meet in a public place is to ensure that they don't feel vulnerable as they are surrounded by people.  if a woman is that incapable of just saying, ''sorry i have to go'' and doing that then she shouldn't be doing this.  if a woman is prepared to go meet a complete stranger then just how vulnerable is she?  the man may well feel just as vulnerable.  If that's honestly how you feel then i would say dont go.  join local interest groups and get to know people gradually

I just think if any girl can be helped out of a situation if her instincts are telling her something isn't right...it cant be a bad thing.
It's easy to handle situations if you are feisty, or experienced, or simply dont put yourself in the situation where you are alone on a date with someone you have only met online....it seems to be a different social world out there to when me and probably you did our dating when we were young.
I just dont think women handle things as well as we did back then.


If you've got the courage to meet a complete stranger for a date, you've got the courage to walk away, surely? If not...then don't go on dates with complete strangers.
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Post by Syl on Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:47 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:

It's not about expecting bar staff to babysit you for goodness sake, it's about letting them know in a subtle way without involving anyone else you need a cab home because you dont feel safe in some way
I really cant see the problem.

But you are involving them.    If the man is  a nutter, do you think calling a cab might make a difference?  What if he's violent.  What if he follows her home? Who will help her then?    It should be more about keeping yourself safe in the first place, surely?

Oh, so lets all look the other way and refuse to help because some creep might cause trouble. Rolling Eyes


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Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:58 pm

Syl wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

But you are involving them.    If the man is  a nutter, do you think calling a cab might make a difference?  What if he's violent.  What if he follows her home? Who will help her then?    It should be more about keeping yourself safe in the first place, surely?

Oh, so lets all look the other way and refuse to help because some creep might cause trouble.  Rolling Eyes


no but it is more down to the person concerned to have safeguards in place.

for example if it were me meeting a stranger, although in a public place i would arrange for a friend to suddenly turn up (completely by coincidence of course Cool about an hour into the date. after greetings there would be a code chat

so i may prearrange to talk about some dresses i'd seen online. if i say to my friend the red one stood out to me it would indicate that i needed help (red for danger) if i said i liked the green one it would indicate that all was well.

perfectly innocently done but will always make a woman feel safer if she has back up that isn't seen as back up

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Post by Syl on Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:09 am

gelico wrote:
Syl wrote:

Oh, so lets all look the other way and refuse to help because some creep might cause trouble.  Rolling Eyes


no but it is more down to the person concerned to have safeguards in place.

for example if it were me meeting a stranger, although in a public place i would arrange for a friend to suddenly turn up (completely by coincidence of course  Cool  about an hour into the date.  after greetings there would be a code chat

so i may prearrange to talk about some dresses i'd seen online.  if i say to my friend the red one stood out to me it would indicate that i needed help (red for danger)  if i said i liked the green one it would indicate that all was well.

perfectly innocently done but will always make a woman feel safer if she has back up that isn't seen as back up

Any woman if she is out and about on her own can find herself in a situation where she feels afraid or uncomfortable. I am sure most manage to extract themselves from bad company without much fuss and without needing assistance from anyone else.

This scheme is designed to help women when they obviously feel in need of a helping hand.
I think it's a good idea, obviously others opinions differ.

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Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:12 am

Syl wrote:
gelico wrote:

no but it is more down to the person concerned to have safeguards in place.

for example if it were me meeting a stranger, although in a public place i would arrange for a friend to suddenly turn up (completely by coincidence of course  Cool  about an hour into the date.  after greetings there would be a code chat

so i may prearrange to talk about some dresses i'd seen online.  if i say to my friend the red one stood out to me it would indicate that i needed help (red for danger)  if i said i liked the green one it would indicate that all was well.

perfectly innocently done but will always make a woman feel safer if she has back up that isn't seen as back up

Any woman if she is out and about on her own can find herself in a situation where she feels afraid or uncomfortable. I am sure most manage to extract  themselves from bad company without much fuss and without needing assistance from anyone else.

This scheme is designed to help women when they obviously feel in need of a helping hand.
I think it's a good idea, obviously others opinions differ.

i'm not necessarily saying the whole idea should be binned syl. it can be an added helping hand if need be i'm sure. all i'm saying is that there are numerous ways that a woman can ensure her own safety and also have some kind of prearranged get out clause if she feels it's going a bit tits up


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Post by Syl on Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:22 am

I agree 100% that women should look after themselves whenever they can. I'm sure many date rapes and sexual assaults could be prevented if women took care and followed all the advice you give, didn't get too drunk to know what they were doing, didn't wander off alone at night,  and all the other common sense stuff we would drum into young girls.
But.....I still think this is a brilliant scheme that should be adopted nationwide, for the times when for whatever reason a woman does find herself in need of a bit of help.

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