Generosity Pays: Selfless People Tend to Make More Money

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Post by phildidge on Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:00 pm

What happens to those who behave unselfishly and make sacrifices for the sake of others? You might be surprised to hear that greed may not be the path to prosperity.

According to an interdisciplinary study by researchers from Stockholm University, the Institute for Futures Studies, and the University of South Carolina, unselfish people tend both to receive higher salaries, in comparison to more selfish people.

“The result is clear in both the American and the European data. The most unselfish people receive the highest salaries. And we also find this result over time – the people who are most generous at one point in time have the largest salary increases when researchers revisit them later in time,” says Kimmo Eriksson, researcher at the Centre for Cultural Evolution at Stockholm University and one of the authors of the study.

The results of the study, which have now been published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, are contrary to theories that selfish people manage to get their hands on more money through their selfishness, as suggested in previous research.

Previous psychological and sociological research has shown that unselfish people are happier and have better social relationships, but this study focuses on unselfishness from an economical and evolutionary perspective.

In this collaboration with the Institute for Futures Studies and the University of South Carolina, researchers at Stockholm University have looked at how selfishness relates to income and family size. Selfishness was measured partly through attitudes and partly through reported behaviors according to the analyses of four major studies of Americans and Europeans.

Unselfishness is defined in the study as the desire to help others because you care about their welfare. Therefore, attitudes concern how important a person thinks it is to help others and care about their welfare. The behaviors concerned how often and how much the person engaged in various help behaviors, e.g. giving money or their time to help others.

“In a separate study, we examined the expectations of ordinary people to see if their expectations aligned with our data. The results of this study showed that people generally have the correct expectation that selfish people have fewer children, but erroneously believe that selfish people will make more money. It is nice to see that generosity so often pays off in the long run,” says Pontus Strimling, one of the authors behind the study.

The authors themselves believe that improved social relationships may be the key to generous peoples’ success from an economic perspective, but note that their research does not definitely answer this question.

“Future research will have to delve deeper into the reasons why generous people earn more, and look at whether the link between unselfishness, higher salaries and more children also exists in other parts of the world. And it is of course debatable how unselfish it really is to have more children,” says co-author Brent Simpson of University of South Carolina.


(Source: Stockholm University)


https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/generosity-pays-new-study-says-that-selfless-people-tend-to-make-more-money/

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:25 pm

Wow, no comments from those on the left on here

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:49 pm

I think that's a highly dubious correlation. It might be that people who are more generous are generally more outgoing so they might get jobs which more reserved people wouldn't go for, or wouldn't get.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I think that's a highly dubious correlation. It might be that people who are more generous are generally more outgoing so they might get jobs which more reserved people wouldn't go for, or wouldn't get.

Saying something is dubious is basically meaningless, without any statistical evidence to show otherwise Rags

This was two seperate Universities that conducted this and came to the same findings

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:54 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I think that's a highly dubious correlation. It might be that people who are more generous are generally more outgoing so they might get jobs which more reserved people wouldn't go for, or wouldn't get.

Saying something is dubious is basically meaningless, without any statistical evidence to show otherwise Rags

This was two seperate Universities that conducted this and came to the same findings

I don't need to have statistical evidence. It's not their statistics I'm querying, it's the conclusion they drew from them.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:56 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

Saying something is dubious is basically meaningless, without any statistical evidence to show otherwise Rags

This was two seperate Universities that conducted this and came to the same findings

I don't need to have statistical evidence. It's not their statistics I'm querying, it's the conclusion they drew from them.

Where there conclusions are drawm from evidence

Hence you saying you disagree is again meaningless unless you can prove otherwise

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:58 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't need to have statistical evidence. It's not their statistics I'm querying, it's the conclusion they drew from them.

Where there conclusions are drawm from evidence

Hence you saying you disagree is again meaningless unless you can prove otherwise

I said that the correlation is highly dubious.

You could find a correlation anywhere, but that doesn't mean it's cause and effect.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:59 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

Where there conclusions are drawm from evidence

Hence you saying you disagree is again meaningless unless you can prove otherwise

I said that the correlation is highly dubious.

You could find a correlation anywhere, but that doesn't mean it's cause and effect.

Yes you keep making a claim, not based on any evidence or reasoning

So whoopdedoo

I am sure they will not give your views even a passing thought

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:00 pm

What exactly was the point of the study anyway?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:01 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I said that the correlation is highly dubious.

You could find a correlation anywhere, but that doesn't mean it's cause and effect.

Yes you keep making a claim, not based on any evidence or reasoning

So whoopdedoo

I am sure they will not give your views even a passing thought

Are you saying that if I behave more "unselfishly" or generously, I will suddenly get a pay rise?

Don't be such a duffer.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:02 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:What exactly was the point of the study anyway?

Why not look into this further yourself


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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:02 pm

Of course people who have more children get more money - they get more child benefit - at least in this country. Nil points there.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:02 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

Yes you keep making a claim, not based on any evidence or reasoning

So whoopdedoo

I am sure they will not give your views even a passing thought

Are you saying that if I behave more "unselfishly" or generously, I will suddenly get a pay rise?

Don't be such a duffer.

Cathy Newman alert

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:27 pm

Didge wrote:Saying something is dubious is basically meaningless, without any statistical evidence to show otherwise Rags

Nonsense. Saying something is dubious is simply the postulate of skepticism. One does not need evidence to affirm a nullity.

One only needs evidence for a positive claim.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Saying something is dubious is basically meaningless, without any statistical evidence to show otherwise Rags

Nonsense.  Saying something is dubious is simply the postulate of skepticism.  One does not need evidence to affirm a nullity.

One only needs evidence for a positive claim.

How absurd

Considering she has not even looked at the study, how then can someone claim its dubious?

In other words, is you talking nonsense

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:36 pm

Now here is the study for people to look at themselves

Then they can reason why they see fault in the findings

https://www.su.se/english/research/research-news/new-study-shows-unselfish-people-have-more-children-and-earn-more-money-1.406953?cache=%2Fstudy-information%2Fstudent-counselling

Enjoy

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:58 pm

Thor wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Nonsense.  Saying something is dubious is simply the postulate of skepticism.  One does not need evidence to affirm a nullity.

One only needs evidence for a positive claim.

How absurd

Considering she has not even looked at the study, how then can someone claim its dubious?

In other words, is you talking nonsense

So then, just to be certain, you've decided to concede the point and move to make this all about Raggs?

In the inimitable words of tommy...Waffle. Razz


Last edited by Original Quill on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:03 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:

How absurd

Considering she has not even looked at the study, how then can someone claim its dubious?

In other words, is you talking nonsense

So then, just to be certain, you've decided to concede the point and move to make this all about Raggs?

In the inimitable words of tommy...I have no argument, I'm a moron.. Razz


Not making this about Rags at all

We see people be dubious of scientific study all the time and do so, from never ever reading the studies themselves

Take the countless ones on evolution or climate change for example

So I never conceded any point. My view is to claim something as dubious, without ever looking into the data, is plainly absurd

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:09 pm

Didge wrote:We see people be dubious of scientific study all the time and do so, from never ever reading the studies themselves

Raggs is simply arguing from the spirit of skepticism. It's your responsibility to argue the affirmative. It's not your responsibility to criticize your interlocutor.

Stick to the subject, or give it up.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:13 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:We see people be dubious of scientific study all the time and do so, from never ever reading the studies themselves

Raggs is simply arguing from the spirit of skepticism.  It's your responsibility to argue the affirmative.  It's not your responsibility to criticize your interlocutor.

Stick to the subject, or give it up.


And I asked her to give me reasons, based on the information of the study

She failed to do so

She simple read an article on this and decided it was dubious, never looking at the data

To me, that is absurd

As to sticking to the subject, maybe you could avtually talk about the subject instead atcing like a toddler shit stirring

Good luck

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:14 pm

Thor wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Raggs is simply arguing from the spirit of skepticism.  It's your responsibility to argue the affirmative.  It's not your responsibility to criticize your interlocutor.

Stick to the subject, or give it up.


And I asked her to give me reasons, based on the information of the study

She failed to do so

She simple read an article on this and decided it was dubious, never looking at the data

To me, that is absurd

As to sticking to the subject, maybe you could avtually talk about the subject instead atcing like a toddler shit stirring

Good luck

I did give you reasons, you just didn't like them, so you decided to be obnoxious as usual.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:


And I asked her to give me reasons, based on the information of the study

She failed to do so

She simple read an article on this and decided it was dubious, never looking at the data

To me, that is absurd

As to sticking to the subject, maybe you could avtually talk about the subject instead atcing like a toddler shit stirring

Good luck

I did give you reasons, you just didn't like them, so you decided to be obnoxious as usual.


Well considering they looked at people over a lengh of time, it shows you did not look at the evidence

I am not being obnoxious and made no views on you and its you doing that yourself, looking again to start a fight

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:22 pm

Didge wrote:And I asked her to give me reasons, based on the information of the study

She failed to do so

She simple read an article on this and decided it was dubious, never looking at the data

Raggs is simply arguing in the negative. The negative does not have to give reasons. The negative position is always very simple. It constitutes one word: 'NO'.

Didge wrote:As to sticking to the subject, maybe you could avtually talk about the subject instead atcing like a toddler shit stirring

So now you are on to me, eh? You really want to avoid this subject. Well, then...go.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:23 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:





I did give you reasons, you just didn't like them, so you decided to be obnoxious as usual.


Well considering they looked at people over a lengh of time, it shows you did not look at the evidence

I am not being obnoxious and made no views on you and its you doing that yourself, looking again to start a fight

The link you posted doesn't show any more than you posted here. The whole study is not available yet. Perhaps you should have waited.

You being obnoxious. I gave you at least one reason why the correlation is dubious but you chose to have a go at me instead of addressing what I actually said.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:26 pm

So as Quill is intent on not actually debating the points and simple looking to cause trouble I will simple post up more information on the study. In the hope others will look to reason why they think the findings either make sense or are flawed.

“The result is clear in both the American and the European data. The most unselfish people have the most children and the moderately unselfish receive the highest salaries. And we also find this result over time – the people who are most generous at one point in time have the largest salary increases when researchers revisit them later in time,” says Kimmo Eriksson, researcher at the Centre for Cultural Evolution at Stockholm University and one of the authors of the study.

The result is contrary to theories that selfish people manage to get their hands on more money through their selfishness, as suggested in previous research.

Previous psychological and sociological research has shown that unselfish people are happier and have better social relationships. The study “Generosity pays: Selfish people have fewer children and earn less money” focuses on unselfishness from an economical and evolutionary perspective.

In this collaboration with the Institute for Futures Studies and the University of South Carolina, researchers at Stockholm University have looked at how selfishness relates to income and fertility. Selfishness was measured partly through attitudes and partly through reported behaviors.* The results are based on analyses of four major studies of Americans and Europeans.


“In a separate study, we examined the expectations of ordinary people to see if their expectations aligned with our data. The results of this study showed that people generally have the correct expectation that selfish people have fewer children, but erroneously believe that selfish people will make more money. It is nice to see that generosity so often pays off in the long run,” says Pontus Strimling, a researcher at the Institute for Futures Studies, who is also one of the authors behind the study.

The authors themselves believe that improved social relationships may be the key to generous peoples’ success from an economic perspective, but note that their research does not definitely answer this question.

“Future research will have to delve deeper into the reasons why generous people earn more, and look at whether the link between unselfishness, higher salaries and more children also exists in other parts of the world. And it is of course debatable how unselfish it really is to have more children,” says co-author Brent Simpson of University of South Carolina.

*Unselfishness is defined in the study as the desire to help others because you care about their welfare. Therefore, attitudes concern how important a person thinks it is to help others and care about their welfare. The behaviors concerned how often and how much the person engaged in various help behaviours, e.g. giving money or their time to help others.

http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fpspp0000213

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:29 pm

Oh there is also a video on the link, if easier for people

https://www.su.se/english/research/research-news/new-study-shows-unselfish-people-have-more-children-and-earn-more-money-1.406953?cache=%2Fstudy-information%2Fstudent-counselling

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:35 pm

Thor wrote:So as Quill is intent on not actually debating the points and simple looking to cause trouble I will simple post up more information on the study. In the hope others will look to reason why they think the findings either make sense or are flawed.

“The result is clear in both the American and the European data. The most unselfish people have the most children and the moderately unselfish receive the highest salaries. And we also find this result over time – the people who are most generous at one point in time have the largest salary increases when researchers revisit them later in time,” says Kimmo Eriksson, researcher at the Centre for Cultural Evolution at Stockholm University and one of the authors of the study.

The result is contrary to theories that selfish people manage to get their hands on more money through their selfishness, as suggested in previous research.

Previous psychological and sociological research has shown that unselfish people are happier and have better social relationships. The study “Generosity pays: Selfish people have fewer children and earn less money” focuses on unselfishness from an economical and evolutionary perspective.

In this collaboration with the Institute for Futures Studies and the University of South Carolina, researchers at Stockholm University have looked at how selfishness relates to income and fertility. Selfishness was measured partly through attitudes and partly through reported behaviors.* The results are based on analyses of four major studies of Americans and Europeans.


“In a separate study, we examined the expectations of ordinary people to see if their expectations aligned with our data. The results of this study showed that people generally have the correct expectation that selfish people have fewer children, but erroneously believe that selfish people will make more money. It is nice to see that generosity so often pays off in the long run,” says Pontus Strimling, a researcher at the Institute for Futures Studies, who is also one of the authors behind the study.

The authors themselves believe that improved social relationships may be the key to generous peoples’ success from an economic perspective, but note that their research does not definitely answer this question.

“Future research will have to delve deeper into the reasons why generous people earn more, and look at whether the link between unselfishness, higher salaries and more children also exists in other parts of the world. And it is of course debatable how unselfish it really is to have more children,” says co-author Brent Simpson of University of South Carolina.

*Unselfishness is defined in the study as the desire to help others because you care about their welfare. Therefore, attitudes concern how important a person thinks it is to help others and care about their welfare. The behaviors concerned how often and how much the person engaged in various help behaviours, e.g. giving money or their time to help others.

http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fpspp0000213

Isn't that the same as you posted before?

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:36 pm

Nope

The first link is from goodnews, the other is from the actual University

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Didge wrote:So as Quill is intent on not actually debating the points and simple looking to cause trouble I will simple post up more information on the study. In the hope others will look to reason why they think the findings either make sense or are flawed.

That's what you should have done in the first place.

Now on to the subject:

There is a hidden contradiction in that the thesis seems to be that generous people accumulation the most wealth...which distills down to: generous people are the most selfish.

Wealth, itself, is an indicator of selfishness. If you don't believe it, try giving your wealth away. Your own instinct will be to hoard and covet your wealth. That, by definition, is selfishness.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:37 pm

I'd like to know how they decided who was unselfish and who wasn't. There is a definition there, but how did they know who those people cared about? They might only be generous with specific people - family, friends, etc, and not with strangers or with society in general.

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:39 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:So as Quill is intent on not actually debating the points and simple looking to cause trouble I will simple post up more information on the study. In the hope others will look to reason why they think the findings either make sense or are flawed.

That's what you should have done in the first place.

Now on to the subject:

There is a hidden contradiction in that the thesis seems to be that generous people accumulation the most wealth...which distills down to: generous people are the most selfish.

Wealth, itself, is an indicator of selfishness.  If you don't believe it, try giving your wealth away.  Your own instinct will be to hoard and covet your wealth.  That, by definition, is selfishness.

Good point, and also it might be the other way round. Perhaps people who are better off are more generous than those who aren't.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:So as Quill is intent on not actually debating the points and simple looking to cause trouble I will simple post up more information on the study. In the hope others will look to reason why they think the findings either make sense or are flawed.

That's what you should have done in the first place.

Now on to the subject:

There is a hidden contradiction in that the thesis seems to be that generous people accumulation the most wealth...which distills down to: generous people are the most selfish.

Wealth, itself, is an indicator of selfishness.  If you don't believe it, try giving your wealth away.  Your own instinct will be to hoard and covet your wealth.  That, by definition, is selfishness.

1) That is not what article in claims, that they have accumilated the most wealth

Show me where it states that?

2) Your next view that wealth is an indicator selfishness, is blatantly absurd, when again these people are most unselfish, in the way they give money to charity. Hence your claim is basically groundless and is even more subjective to say the least

Watch the video to learn more

What they have found is a correlation between those most unselfish and basically more wealth over time and also having more children

This is replicated not only in the US but Europe. The next step is to see whether this correlates even more across the world

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:44 pm

Thor wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That's what you should have done in the first place.

Now on to the subject:

There is a hidden contradiction in that the thesis seems to be that generous people accumulation the most wealth...which distills down to: generous people are the most selfish.

Wealth, itself, is an indicator of selfishness.  If you don't believe it, try giving your wealth away.  Your own instinct will be to hoard and covet your wealth.  That, by definition, is selfishness.

1) That is not what article in claims, that they have accumilated the most wealth

Show me where it states that?

2) Your next view that wealth is an indicator selfishness, is blatantly absurd, when again these people are most unselfish, in the way they give money to charity. Hence your claim is basically groundless and is even more subjective to say the least

Watch the video to learn more

What they have found is a correlation between those most unselfish and basically more wealth over time and also having more children

This is replicated not only in the US but Europe. The next step is to see whether this correlates even more across the world

Wealthy people can afford to give more to charity though. There might be a correlation between how well off someone is and how much they give to charity, but that's common sense.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:47 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

1) That is not what article in claims, that they have accumilated the most wealth

Show me where it states that?

2) Your next view that wealth is an indicator selfishness, is blatantly absurd, when again these people are most unselfish, in the way they give money to charity. Hence your claim is basically groundless and is even more subjective to say the least

Watch the video to learn more

What they have found is a correlation between those most unselfish and basically more wealth over time and also having more children

This is replicated not only in the US but Europe. The next step is to see whether this correlates even more across the world

Wealthy people can afford to give more to charity though. There might be a correlation between how well off someone is and how much they give to charity, but that's common sense.

But it depends on how much more they are giving. Hence your view is a generalistic view, not again looking into how much they do give

Even more they tend to have more children

In fact this makes plenty of sense to me

Its challenging poor myths around how well people do and whether they are selfish

All the indicators show here, is a clear indication of unseflish behaviour and this was found in 4 studies

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:49 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Wealthy people can afford to give more to charity though. There might be a correlation between how well off someone is and how much they give to charity, but that's common sense.

But it depends on how much more they are giving. Hence your view is a generalistic view, not again looking into how much they do give

Even more they tend to have more children

In fact this makes plenty of sense to me

Its challenging poor myths around how well people do and whether they are selfish

All the indicators show here, is a clear indication of unseflish behaviour and this was found in 4 studies

Wealthy people can afford to have more children though.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:51 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

But it depends on how much more they are giving. Hence your view is a generalistic view, not again looking into how much they do give

Even more they tend to have more children

In fact this makes plenty of sense to me

Its challenging poor myths around how well people do and whether they are selfish

All the indicators show here, is a clear indication of unseflish behaviour and this was found in 4 studies

Wealthy people can afford to have more children though.

You are still looking at this wrong and taking the view they must all be super rich

People have to also have loving families, which also takes spending time with them

A view where people constantly give to others in need, is an unseflsih trait

What you could have argued as a flaw, is whether it is unselfish to have more children

That would play a different factor based on global populations

What you fail to grasp is there is a correlation here, with a pool study of 60,000 people

No matter what you earn, you still have to be willing to help others

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:54 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Wealthy people can afford to have more children though.

You are still looking at this wrong and taking the view they must all be super rich

People have to also have loving families, which also takes spending time with them

A view where people constantly give to others in need, is an unseflsih trait

What you could have argued as a flaw, is where it is unselfish to have more children

That would play a different factor based on global populations

What you fail to grasp is there is a correlation here, with a pool study of 60,000 people

I'm not disputing a correlation, I'm disputing the validity of that correlation - ie, re cause and effect.

Why is it unselfish to have more children anyway?

What you fail to grasp is that you have just accepted what they said without even reading the whole study, and knowing how they gathered data, how they interviewed people, what they asked them, and then how they decided that there was a causal relationship.


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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

You are still looking at this wrong and taking the view they must all be super rich

People have to also have loving families, which also takes spending time with them

A view where people constantly give to others in need, is an unseflsih trait

What you could have argued as a flaw, is where it is unselfish to have more children

That would play a different factor based on global populations

What you fail to grasp is there is a correlation here, with a pool study of 60,000 people

I'm not disputing a correlation, I'm disputing the validity of that correlation - ie, re cause and effect.

Why is it unselfish to have more children anyway?

What you fail to grasp is that you have just accepted what they said without even reading the whole study, and knowing how they gathered data, how they interviewed people, what they asked them, and then how they decided that there was a causal relationship.


I never claimed it is unselfish to have more children

You can dispute the correlation all you like, but its a huge pool of people and over four studies, which come to the same conclusion each time

Even more and again people have to be willing and wanting to help others

You simple think because they have more, then they will help more

That really is again quite absurd as, again these people are very much wanting to help people

They even admit they do not know the cause behind this but again there is a correlation

Do you understand that?

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:58 pm

What has to be proved is that selfless people make more money because they are selfless. Then it has to be shown what kind of jobs they have, and if they make more money than someone else in the same job because they're selfless.


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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:59 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:What has to be proved is that selfless people make more money because they are selfless. Then it has to be shown what kind of jobs they have, and if they make more money than someone else in the same job because they're selfless.


Do you not think they have done all this?

They had four studies with over 60,000 people of which two of the studies were based over a period of time

I suggest you buy the study and then see the information for yourself, based on your skeptism

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:00 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm not disputing a correlation, I'm disputing the validity of that correlation - ie, re cause and effect.

Why is it unselfish to have more children anyway?

What you fail to grasp is that you have just accepted what they said without even reading the whole study, and knowing how they gathered data, how they interviewed people, what they asked them, and then how they decided that there was a causal relationship.


I never claimed it is unselfish to have more children

You can dispute the correlation all you like, but its a huge pool of people and over four studies, which come to the same conclusion each time

Even more and again people have to be willing and wanting to help others

You simple think because they have more, then they will help more

That really is again quite absurd as, again these people are very much wanting to help people

They even admit they do not know the cause behind this but again there is a correlation

Do you understand that?

Yes, of course I understand it, but you fail to understand that they have not established a causal relationship. As I said, wealthy people can afford to be more selfless, so you have to prove that they are wealthy because they are selfless, and not the other way round.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:02 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

I never claimed it is unselfish to have more children

You can dispute the correlation all you like, but its a huge pool of people and over four studies, which come to the same conclusion each time

Even more and again people have to be willing and wanting to help others

You simple think because they have more, then they will help more

That really is again quite absurd as, again these people are very much wanting to help people

They even admit they do not know the cause behind this but again there is a correlation

Do you understand that?

Yes, of course I understand it, but you fail to understand that they have not established a causal relationship. As I said, wealthy people can afford to be more selfless, so you have to prove that they are wealthy because they are selfless, and not the other way round.

Yes you say many things Rags and never understand that this is actually a correlation

4 studies shows there is a correlation

You want to dispute them, the link is there, be my guest to post to them your concerns and then please post the replies for the forum

Good luck

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:16 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, of course I understand it, but you fail to understand that they have not established a causal relationship. As I said, wealthy people can afford to be more selfless, so you have to prove that they are wealthy because they are selfless, and not the other way round.

Yes you say many things Rags and never understand that this is actually a correlation

4 studies shows there is a correlation

You want to dispute them, the link is there, be my guest to post to them your concerns and then please post the replies for the forum

Good luck

How many more times do I have to tell that there may well be a correlation, but that's not the same thing as a causal relationship, or cause and effect?

If you want to believe this study, it's entirely up to you. Perhaps you think you'll become richer if you're nicer - good luck with that.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:19 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

Yes you say many things Rags and never understand that this is actually a correlation

4 studies shows there is a correlation

You want to dispute them, the link is there, be my guest to post to them your concerns and then please post the replies for the forum

Good luck

How many more times do I have to tell that there may well be a correlation, but that's not the same thing as a causal relationship, or cause and effect?

If you want to believe this study, it's entirely up to you. Perhaps you think you'll become richer if you're nicer - good luck with that.

No, I would love for you to write to them and express your opinions and then come back with their replies

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:30 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

How many more times do I have to tell that there may well be a correlation, but that's not the same thing as a causal relationship, or cause and effect?

If you want to believe this study, it's entirely up to you. Perhaps you think you'll become richer if you're nicer - good luck with that.

No, I would love for you to write to them and express your opinions and then come back with their replies

I'm sure you would. Perhaps I'll look at the whole study when it's available.

However, I'm not sure how this study is useful to anyone anyway.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

No, I would love for you to write to them and express your opinions and then come back with their replies

I'm sure you would. Perhaps I'll look at the whole study when it's available.

However, I'm not sure how this study is useful to anyone anyway.

So I take that as a no then

I am sure they find many benefits of this to further research social interactions between people

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:49 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm sure you would. Perhaps I'll look at the whole study when it's available.

However, I'm not sure how this study is useful to anyone anyway.

So I take that as a no then

I am sure they find many benefits of this to further research social interactions between people

Post the whole study when it's available, and I'll see.

What benefits do you think they will get from this? Do you think that people will suddenly start having loads of kids because they think it'll make them richer, or that they'll become more "selfless"?

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

So I take that as a no then

I am sure they find many benefits of this to further research social interactions between people

Post the whole study when it's available, and I'll see.

What benefits do you think they will get from this? Do you think that people will suddenly start having loads of kids because they think it'll make them richer, or that they'll become more "selfless"?

Why do I need to do that when you can actually contact the people that carried out the study

Why would I think people would start to have lots of kids based on this?

I think we need to understand why unselfish people have correlation to through time earning high salaries

So whether this then does have a social interaction cause

Then we can understand what would be the benefits

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Post by Raggamuffin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:05 pm

Thor wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Post the whole study when it's available, and I'll see.

What benefits do you think they will get from this? Do you think that people will suddenly start having loads of kids because they think it'll make them richer, or that they'll become more "selfless"?

Why do I need to do that when you can actually contact the people that carried out the study

Why would I think people would start to have lots of kids based on this?

I think we need to understand why unselfish people have correlation to through time earning high salaries

So whether this then does have a social interaction cause

Then we can understand what would be the benefits

You're the one who's most interested - you started a whole thread on it before knowing all the facts.

Why do we need to know if we don't know what the benefits would be?

It's good that you are now questioning that alleged correlation.

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Post by phildidge on Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:07 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Thor wrote:

Why do I need to do that when you can actually contact the people that carried out the study

Why would I think people would start to have lots of kids based on this?

I think we need to understand why unselfish people have correlation to through time earning high salaries

So whether this then does have a social interaction cause

Then we can understand what would be the benefits

You're the one who's most interested - you started a whole thread on it before knowing all the facts.

Why do we need to know if we don't know what the benefits would be?

It's good that you are now questioning that alleged correlation.

Actually I posted this for everyone, which seems to have gained your interest

I see you have gone back to cathy Newman mode, as never questioned the correlation

Show me where I did?

Is this now the extenct of your debate on this?

If so, good luck talking to yourself on this thread

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