Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

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Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

Post by Thor on Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:43 pm

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Re: Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

Post by Vintage on Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:45 pm

As you say, Elizabeth was capable as a ruling Queen, she'd been used to thinking on her feet and weighing up situations, although not pleasant her upbringing and intelligence served her and her country well in the end and her religion was for want of a better description a bit Anglican before its time.
Mary Stuart on the other hand was, by upbringing, the stuff of a European Queen Consort, a huge difference. and a committed Catholic.
Mary Tudor although well educated was a broken woman, whose religion served her badly to rule a people like those of this island, most common folk have never been very ardent in their faith, even though her mother was deeply religious the people loved her for her charity and of course they were Catholics, of a sort, at first.
The succession worked out well for England and the rest f Britain in the end for that time anyway.

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Re: Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

Post by gelico on Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:59 pm

Vintage wrote:As you say, Elizabeth was capable as a ruling Queen, she'd been used to thinking on her feet and weighing up situations, although not pleasant her upbringing and intelligence served her and her country well in the end and her religion was for want of a better description a bit Anglican before its time.
Mary Stuart on the other hand was, by upbringing, the stuff of a European Queen Consort, a huge difference. and a committed Catholic.
Mary Tudor although well educated was a broken woman, whose religion served her badly to rule a people like those of this island, most common folk have never been very ardent in their faith, even though her mother was deeply religious the people loved her for her charity and of course they were Catholics, of a sort, at first.
The succession worked out well for England and the rest f Britain in the end for that time anyway.


Indeed, and Knox didn't help matters at all.

Furthermore, Mary had no one who she could trust. Rizzio was taken out, the death of Darnley and her foolishness with Bothwell, coupled with Knox ranting on about her behaviour, rumours spread quickly and then she was hated. The commoners were ready to give her a chance at first but she had no deep connection with them.

Whereas Elizabeth had known her advisors all her life. She trusted William Cecil completely, she also had Robert Dudley etc. she knew she had complete support. Not only that but she had a lot of her father in her nature and had that touch with the common people. She was adored and pretty much always secure.

It'll be interesting to see how they are both portrayed in this

great discussion

night vin

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Re: Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

Post by Vintage on Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:12 am

Yes I am really interested in watching this.
It is a good discussion, I'm being reminded of so much about a time I've always been interested in.
Night Gels

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Re: Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

Post by Original Quill on Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:13 am

Vintage wrote:Only the die hard Catholics kept the flame of rebellion going. Mary would never have been accepted by English nobles and parliament especially if the secret document had come to light at that time.

Mary Tudur did pretty well, and she was Catholic.  Look, the fact is that a fake, replacement-religion for a guy who wanted to get it on with his mistress, was not a very popular attraction for people who sincerely believed in God.  The reality is, the Anglican religion is just Catholicism in long pants.

Mary Stuart, with French backing, would have walked away with it.  This presumes she played Scotland differently.  The Scots, in Calvinism, had a real protestant religion, which posed a much greater threat.  By going to Scotland, holding Mass in Holyrood House, etc., she was asking for trouble.

If Mary Stuart had gone to London directly, bringing the Scottish lairds in when she had them--the Scots and the French, known as the Auld Alliance, goes back to 1295--it would have her's for the taking.

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Re: Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

Post by Original Quill on Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:34 am

gelico wrote:Furthermore, Mary had no one who she could trust. Rizzio was taken out, the death of Darnley and her foolishness with Bothwell, coupled with Knox ranting on about her behaviour, rumours spread quickly and then she was hated. The commoners were ready to give her a chance at first but she had no deep connection with them.

You are just repeating what I just said.  Mary Stuart had incredibly bad taste in men. Only Knox was capable, and he was against her.

gelico wrote:Whereas Elizabeth had known her advisors all her life. She trusted William Cecil completely, she also had Robert Dudley etc. she knew she had complete support. Not only that but she had a lot of her father in her nature and had that touch with the common people. She was adored and pretty much always secure.

Cecil was quite capable, big deal.  Dudley was a pain in the ass, but he was good in bed...ha, at one point Elizabeth offered Dudley to Mary.  Talking about pimping. Twisted Evil

Fact is, for the first 10-years Elizabeth allowed herself to be used.  A well-counselled Mary Stuart, without her stop off in Scotland, would have done much more with England.

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Re: Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

Post by Thor on Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:27 am

I found the views of Gelico, Magica and Vintage very interesting

I love history and have actually enjoyed listening to you all. As this is a period in history (The Tudors) I need to study more of. Though have a working knowledge.

Anyway, I hope you watch the film and then provide your views on accuracy

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Re: Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

Post by Original Quill on Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:39 am

Vintage wrote:Indeed, the people were initially glad of Bloody Mary, largely I think due to her mother and her treatment by Henry when Anne came along, they soon came to regret their welcome of her though.
The will was ratified by act of Parliament, but then of course Edward decided to change the succession in his will which he was entitled to do, with the backing of his council and parliament. He decided to exclude his sisters and leap frog to the next ratified heirs in his father's will the Greys.

So much for wills and acts of Parliament in Tudur times, eh?

Vintage wrote:Mary Stuart was excluded in both, her father in law the King of France claimed the throne of England in her name, he even had her sign a secret document to bequeath Scotland and England to France on her death, she was about 15 at this time, yet within two years France and Scotland acknowledged Elizabeth as the legal Queen of England.

Only the die hard Catholics kept the flame of rebellion going. Mary would never have been accepted by English nobles and parliament especially if the secret document had come to light at that time.

Yes, it was a time of trials and tribulations.  But Mary lost because she was a silly cow, not because the the Protestants had anything going for them back in 1558.  If Mary QoS had someone with a backbone and some political savvy in her camp she would have won out over Elizabeth, I am convinced.  Henri II was not such a man.  Mary needed someone like her grandfather, James IV.

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Re: Really Want to Watch this when it comes Out - MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS Official Trailer (2018)

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