Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

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Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:03 pm

Why did the authorities not press charges, the two teachers who organised fights between 4 year olds were not charged, the day care facility  was allowed to continue 'caring' for children.

Two years after this took place a mother of two of the children is now suing the day care centre.

Only now have the two teachers, who were fired after the event, each received a summons to appear in court on a felony charge  of first degree endangering the welfare of a child.


"Two St. Louis day care workers are facing felony child endangerment charges after they hosted a 'fight club' and encouraged preschool children to beat each other up.
Court documents indicate Mickala Guliford, 28, and Tena Dailey, 22, were both charged with first-degree endangering a child and were issued summons for a December 3 hearing on Monday.
Disturbing video from the December 7, 2016, incident shows at least six children pounding each other to the ground while others break down in tears at Adventure Learning Center in St. Louis.
The 35-minute 'fight club' was recorded by the 10-year-old brother of one of the fighters, who was watching the melee with a group of older children from a room next door.
According charging documents obtained by the St. Louis Post Dispatch, one four-year-old celebrating his birthday suffered a black eye and other injuries. "



   

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6358723/Two-teachers-charged-felony-child-endangerment-toddler-fight-club-St-Louis-day-care.html

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Vintage on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:42 pm

People constantly amaze, how could anyone think this kind of thing is remotely acceptable.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:59 pm

Syl wrote:Why did the authorities not press charges...

I think they did.  The two teachers were fired immediately, but it took 2-years to bring charges.

CNN wrote:2 women charged after St. Louis day care ‘fight club’ video surfaces

4:31 PM, NOVEMBER 5, 2018, BY CNN WIRE

ST. LOUIS, Mo. -- Two day care workers have been charged after video of a 'fight club' featuring toddlers surfaced.

Tena Dailey, 22, and Mickala Guliford, 28, have both been charged with endangering the welfare of a child, KTVI reports.

Court documents say that Dailey and Guliford were supervising a class children ranging from 3 to 4 years old at Adventure Learning Center on Gravois in December 2016. They directed and encouraged the children to engage in fights over a 35-minute period.

Surveillance video shows at least six of the children fighting with each other. They often wore a padded glove on one hand when punching each other. One of the children participating in the fight is crying during the video.

The crying child is acknowledged by Dailey and Guliford. The court documents say that she continued to encourage the fights. Guliford is seen jumping up and down in excitement during the video while watching the fights between the children.

A 10-year-old captured video of the fighting with his iPad. He was with older kids in the next room. He was worried about his little brother who was crying after three fights. The child seen crying after a fight suffered red marks, swelling to his face, and a black eye.

The iPad video shows a fight in which the kids fall to the ground while a teacher kicks into the air in excitement. The only person who tries breaking it up is another preschooler, but he cannot stop one child from pounding the other`s head into the floor.

The child texted his mother the video. Nicole Merseal called the director to stop it. She said her older son texted the video saying, "The daycare was making them fight, not helping them."

Though it happened nearly two years ago, Merseal doesn`t think enough was done. She said, "I want them to be held accountable and I don`t want this to happen to any other child."

The police report says the director immediately fired both teachers and called the child abuse hotline. Charges were just filed Monday.
https://fox4kc.com/2018/11/05/2-women-charged-after-st-louis-day-care-fight-club-video-surfaces/

One child tried to break it up. Perhaps the little kid's brother?

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Why did the authorities not press charges...

I think they did.  The two teachers were fired immediately, but it took 2-years to bring charges.

CNN wrote:2 women charged after St. Louis day care ‘fight club’ video surfaces

4:31 PM, NOVEMBER 5, 2018, BY CNN WIRE

ST. LOUIS, Mo. -- Two day care workers have been charged after video of a 'fight club' featuring toddlers surfaced.

Tena Dailey, 22, and Mickala Guliford, 28, have both been charged with endangering the welfare of a child, KTVI reports.

Court documents say that Dailey and Guliford were supervising a class children ranging from 3 to 4 years old at Adventure Learning Center on Gravois in December 2016. They directed and encouraged the children to engage in fights over a 35-minute period.

Surveillance video shows at least six of the children fighting with each other. They often wore a padded glove on one hand when punching each other. One of the children participating in the fight is crying during the video.

The crying child is acknowledged by Dailey and Guliford. The court documents say that she continued to encourage the fights. Guliford is seen jumping up and down in excitement during the video while watching the fights between the children.

A 10-year-old captured video of the fighting with his iPad. He was with older kids in the next room. He was worried about his little brother who was crying after three fights. The child seen crying after a fight suffered red marks, swelling to his face, and a black eye.

The iPad video shows a fight in which the kids fall to the ground while a teacher kicks into the air in excitement. The only person who tries breaking it up is another preschooler, but he cannot stop one child from pounding the other`s head into the floor.

The child texted his mother the video. Nicole Merseal called the director to stop it. She said her older son texted the video saying, "The daycare was making them fight, not helping them."

Though it happened nearly two years ago, Merseal doesn`t think enough was done. She said, "I want them to be held accountable and I don`t want this to happen to any other child."

The police report says the director immediately fired both teachers and called the child abuse hotline. Charges were just filed Monday.
https://fox4kc.com/2018/11/05/2-women-charged-after-st-louis-day-care-fight-club-video-surfaces/

One child tried to break it up.  Perhaps the little kid's brother?

The teachers were sacked but no charges were brought two years ago.

"The St Louis Circuit Attorney's Office declined to prosecute the daycare, which remains in operation today.
'There was insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any laws were violated,' the St Louis Circuit Attorney's Office said in a statement."


The little boy who tried to separate them, the one who obviously had more sense than the two teachers, was just a classmate no relation.
The mother of the 4 year old boy is suing the daycare centre because she feels not enough was done at the time and it's had a lasting effect on her son. She also has a 10 year old son, he was the boy who filmed the fighting from an adjoining classroom.
It is the mother of those two who is now suing the daycare centre.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:23 pm

Vintage wrote:People constantly amaze, how could anyone think this kind of thing is remotely acceptable.

Cruel and perverted people obviously think so, the way one of the teachers is jumping up and down with excitement as one little boy is repeatedly being punched in the face is totally sickening.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:08 pm

It's Missouri. Not exactly the south, but solid Republican. No wonder they don't press charges til now.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:22 pm

Original Quill wrote:It's Missouri.  Not exactly the south, but solid Republican.  No wonder they don't press charges til now.

No, I dont believe that a persons political preference has anything to do with cases like this.
The people who treat little children in this way, and the people who look the other way, are just evil imo, and which party they support has nothing to do with it.

I do wonder why the mum, who had the video, has waited so long before she has acted.
And no doubt charges have only now been brought against the two teachers is because the mother is suing the school.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:53 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:It's Missouri.  Not exactly the south, but solid Republican.  No wonder they don't press charges til now.

No, I dont believe that a persons political preference has anything to do with cases like this.
The people who treat little children in this way, and the people who look the other way, are just evil imo, and which party they support has nothing to do with it.

I do wonder why the mum, who had the video, has waited so long before she has acted.
And no doubt charges have only now been brought against the two teachers is because the mother is suing the school.

People in America are characterized by their politics.  Haven't you been following Trump?  What do you think motivated Charlottesville?  What about nine parishioners gunned down in an African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina? Didn't you follow the happenings in the Pittsburgh synagogue?  Who sends bombs through the mail?  It's all income, neighborhood and socio-economic class...and Missouri is right in the mix.

Where have you been, girl??  

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:31 am

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:It's Missouri.  Not exactly the south, but solid Republican.  No wonder they don't press charges til now.

No, I dont believe that a persons political preference has anything to do with cases like this.
The people who treat little children in this way, and the people who look the other way, are just evil imo, and which party they support has nothing to do with it.

I do wonder why the mum, who had the video, has waited so long before she has acted.
And no doubt charges have only now been brought against the two teachers is because the mother is suing the school.
Smile

Maybe the mother had to find a lawyer who was willing to take the case on, without up-front payment..

Or maybe she had to find the money, to pay for legal action ?

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:36 am

Smile

It's also a bit rough calling those daycare workers "teachers"...

Bit of stretch, calling someone with a Childcare certificate a teacher, when really they are no such thing..

I wonder if one of the reasons that local authorities didn't act on this situation could be because they themselves are involved in gambling on other illegal activities locally  ?

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:10 am

Syl wrote:No, I dont believe that a persons political preference has anything to do with cases like this.
The people who treat little children in this way, and the people who look the other way, are just evil imo, and which party they support has nothing to do with it.

Just to clarify Syl, I wasn't talking about the teachers, who should have been arrested and charged. I was talking about the authorities who took two years to do their job.

No need to tidy up when blacks are involved.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:49 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

No, I dont believe that a persons political preference has anything to do with cases like this.
The people who treat little children in this way, and the people who look the other way, are just evil imo, and which party they support has nothing to do with it.

I do wonder why the mum, who had the video, has waited so long before she has acted.
And no doubt charges have only now been brought against the two teachers is because the mother is suing the school.

People in America are characterized by their politics.  Haven't you been following Trump?  What do you think motivated Charlottesville?  What about nine parishioners gunned down in an African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina?  Didn't you follow the happenings in the Pittsburgh synagogue?  Who sends bombs through the mail?  It's all income, neighborhood and socio-economic class...and Missouri is right in the mix.

Where have you been, girl??  

You are talking of extremists, we have them too, on both sides....but extremists dont decide the law of the land.
The events at this nursery school were illegal, the authorities should have acted 2 years ago, starting off by closing the place down, the teachers should have been charged then, not just sacked and left free to apply for other jobs with vulnerable people.

I dont know what the political leaning is of the people who rule Missouri, but frankly I dont think this has anything to do with this...but if it does, how come your laws can be bent in favour of the political leanings of civil servants?

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:52 am

I also think it's just passing the buck to blame bad actions on which party a person supports.
A minority of people on this forum, you Quill being one of them, seem to divide people up into political groups, this side being good....that side being unreasonable and stupid....the irony is most of it is guesswork anyway.
People are a mix of everything, and which party they support is just a small slice of them.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:56 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Syl wrote:

No, I dont believe that a persons political preference has anything to do with cases like this.
The people who treat little children in this way, and the people who look the other way, are just evil imo, and which party they support has nothing to do with it.

I do wonder why the mum, who had the video, has waited so long before she has acted.
And no doubt charges have only now been brought against the two teachers is because the mother is suing the school.
Smile

Maybe the mother had to find a lawyer who was willing to take the case on, without up-front payment..

Or maybe she had to find the money, to pay for legal action ?

I find that hard to believe. She had the damning tape which her 10 year old son managed to record.
I think lawyers would have been queueing up to take her case on.....knowing that once it was released to the public it would make international news.
I imagine this is the stuff of dreams for lawyers and legal teams wanting to make a name for themselves.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:38 pm

Syl wrote:You are talking of extremists, we have them too, on both sides....but extremists dont decide the law of the land.

No, unfortunately, I am not talking about extremists. For the people in the southern states, the principles you and I call extreme are everyday standards. Haven't you noticed the difference? Charlottesville, for them, is a way of life.

But, I repeat, I'm not talking about the activities of these two teachers (after all, criminals are everywhere), but the response of southern police and officials. Those people in the south are more likely to ignore a crime if the victim is black. Once again, the credo of the south is 'black lives don't matter'. At least they don't count such that the white privileged class need to get up from the dinner table and bother themselves right away.

Understand now, we're not talking about judging the criminals, as much as the institutional response one finds in the south.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:You are talking of extremists, we have them too, on both sides....but extremists dont decide the law of the land.

No, unfortunately, I am not talking about extremists.  For the people in the southern states, the principles you and I call extreme are everyday standards.  Haven't you noticed the difference?  Charlottesville, for them, is a way of life.

But, I repeat, I'm not talking about the activities of these two teachers (after all, criminals are everywhere), but the response of southern police and officials.  Those people in the south are more likely to ignore a crime if the victim is black.  Once again, the credo of the south is 'black lives don't matter'.  At least they don't count such that the white privileged class need to get up from the dinner table and bother themselves right away.

Understand now, we're not talking about judging the criminals, as much as the institutional response one finds in the south.

I understand   that it was  the authorities who decided there was no case to answer here, thats evident in the paragraph posted.

"The St Louis Circuit Attorney's Office declined to prosecute the daycare, which remains in operation today.
'There was insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any laws were violated,' the St Louis Circuit Attorney's Office said in a statement."

But surely the law is the law, how can it change from state to state depending on whether it's a southern state or a northern one?

We have areas that are mainly conservative and well to do, we also have poverty stricken areas where a conservative voter would be as rare as hens teeth, we have areas where blacks and Asians live but a white face would be a rarity....but the law of the land is identical in all.


Last edited by Syl on Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:13 pm

Just to add...that was a mixed group of kids, some black some white, the mum who is now suing the day care centre is also white.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:33 pm

Syl wrote:But surely the law is the law, how can it change from state to state depending on whether it's a southern state or a northern one?

You forget that when the Constitution was written, it was 13 independent entities.  It still is, only now it's 50 different entities.  State legislators determine state law.  While there is a federal criminal code, most criminal codes are at the state level.  The feds defer to the states for prosecution on overlapping jurisdiction, and only pass laws that are of strong interest to the national level, like espionage or tax evasion.

Syl wrote:We have areas that are mainly conservative and well to do, we also have poverty stricken areas where a conservative voter would be as rare as hens teeth, we have areas where blacks and Asians live but a white face would be a rarity....but the law of the land is identical in all.

It's not here.  We have 50 state jurisdictions, plus territorial laws for jurisdictions like Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, etc.  Each entity writes and enforces its own laws, particularly criminal laws.

Why do you think southern states are continually in favor of 'states rights' and hate the US Constitution?  Because on the state level, they get to write their own laws.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:42 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:But surely the law is the law, how can it change from state to state depending on whether it's a southern state or a northern one?

You forget that when the Constitution was written, it was 13 independent entities.  It still is, only now it's 50 different entities.  State legislators determine state law.  While there is a federal criminal code, most criminal codes are at the state level.  The feds defer to the states for prosecution on overlapping jurisdiction, and only pass laws that are of strong interest to the national level, like espionage or tax evasion.

Syl wrote:We have areas that are mainly conservative and well to do, we also have poverty stricken areas where a conservative voter would be as rare as hens teeth, we have areas where blacks and Asians live but a white face would be a rarity....but the law of the land is identical in all.

It's not here.  We have 50 state jurisdictions, plus territorial laws for jurisdictions like Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, etc.  Each entity writes and enforces its own laws, particularly criminal laws.

Why do you think southern states are continually in favor of 'states rights'.  Because on the state level, they get to write their own laws.  

I bow to your superior knowledge re the different state laws in your country Quill, I still maintain however that no matter which state the 'fight club' operated in, it would have been illegal.

The mum had the event on camera, had she made it public 2 years ago I am betting appropriate action would have been taken immediately (regardless of where it had happened) rather than being investigated in a half arsed way concluding that no laws had been violated.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:49 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You forget that when the Constitution was written, it was 13 independent entities.  It still is, only now it's 50 different entities.  State legislators determine state law.  While there is a federal criminal code, most criminal codes are at the state level.  The feds defer to the states for prosecution on overlapping jurisdiction, and only pass laws that are of strong interest to the national level, like espionage or tax evasion.



It's not here.  We have 50 state jurisdictions, plus territorial laws for jurisdictions like Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, etc.  Each entity writes and enforces its own laws, particularly criminal laws.

Why do you think southern states are continually in favor of 'states rights'.  Because on the state level, they get to write their own laws.  

I bow to your superior knowledge re the different state laws in your country Quill, I still maintain however that no matter which state the 'fight club' operated in, it would have been illegal.

The mum had the event on camera, had she made it public 2 years ago I am betting appropriate action would have been taken immediately (regardless of where it had happened)  rather than being investigated in a half arsed way concluding that no laws had been violated.

Of course it was illegal. Have you forgotten, we are not criticizing the laws, but the enforcement. Some good ol' boy sheriffs refused to be bothered as long as it was only niggah kids at risk.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

I bow to your superior knowledge re the different state laws in your country Quill, I still maintain however that no matter which state the 'fight club' operated in, it would have been illegal.

The mum had the event on camera, had she made it public 2 years ago I am betting appropriate action would have been taken immediately (regardless of where it had happened)  rather than being investigated in a half arsed way concluding that no laws had been violated.

Of course it was illegal.  Have you forgotten, we are not criticizing the laws, but the enforcement.  Some good ol' boy sheriffs refused to be bothered as long as it was only niggah kids at risk.  

Some of the kids were white, as was the mother of the two boys...one 4 year old who was hurt, one 10 year old who videoed the fights.


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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:46 pm

Syl wrote:Some of the kids were white, as was the mother of the two boys...one 4 year old who was hurt, one 10 year old who videoed the fights.

Good, but the principal kid in the video was black, and the school was predominately black.  We know how the good ol' boy Sheriffs would take that...and indeed, it took them two years and a lot of publicity to get them off their lazy asses.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:19 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Some of the kids were white, as was the mother of the two boys...one 4 year old who was hurt, one 10 year old who videoed the fights.

Good, but the principal kid in the video was black, and the school was predominately black.  We know how the good ol' boy Sheriffs would take that...and indeed, it took them two years and a lot of publicity to get them off their lazy asses.

Dont you think the only reason the authorities are now  acting is because the mother is suing the school? I doubt they would have bothered if she had let it drop.

Is the school predominately black? I haven't read that anywhere, and like I pointed out, some of the kids in the video are white, the mother who is suing is white, so her kids have a 50% chance of being white.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by WhoseYourWolfie on Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:32 am

Arrow

Countries like Britain and New Zealand operate with two  levels of government  --  national and local (i.e. local councils/counties/municipalities..).

While the likes of the USA, Australia, Canada, India, (and Russia and China in their own ways..) have three levels of government --  with that intermediate level of states/providences/territories (and the "Republics" with the Russian Federation, and the "Autonomous regions" within communist China..) with their own governments,  courts and law enforcement systems --  and with varying amounts of "State's Rights" guaranteed within each country's own Constitution at the federal level..

It also happens to be a this intermediate level that we see many "separatist" movements cropping up --  e.g. Catalonians in Spain, Chechen rebels in Russia, the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, and the push for independence for East Timor (successful) and now West Papua ("Irian Jaya") in Indonesia.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:14 am

Wolf wrote:It also happens to be a this intermediate level that we see many "separatist" movements cropping up -- e.g. Catalonians in Spain, Chechen rebels in Russia, the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, and the push for independence for East Timor (successful) and now West Papua ("Irian Jaya") in Indonesia.

Interesting point. It fits.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:21 pm

Syl wrote:Dont you think the only reason the authorities are now  acting is because the mother is suing the school? I doubt they would have bothered if she had let it drop.

Haha...tell that to nicko.  He thinks lawyers are worthless.

More to the point, I think the publicity that this incident has brought up is motivating the authorities to act.  The lawsuit has probably heightened awareness of the incident, so that would be a contributing factor.  The police are not defendants in legal action, at least that I can see. It's just the publicity.

But, how sad that only when the bosses (ie, the public) are watching over their shoulder, do the authorities do their job.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Jules on Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:23 pm

Small kids are bundles of energy. Professional carers know this only too well. Getting them to release all that energy in the right way is a big challenge. This isn't the right way. Get them to run around in the yard or the park till they're exhausted!  Laughing

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Dont you think the only reason the authorities are now  acting is because the mother is suing the school? I doubt they would have bothered if she had let it drop.

Haha...tell that to nicko.  He thinks lawyers are worthless.

More to the point, I think the publicity that this incident has brought up is motivating the authorities to act.  The lawsuit has probably heightened awareness of the incident, so that would be a contributing factor.  The police are not defendants in legal action, at least that I can see.  It's just the publicity.

But, how sad that only when the bosses (ie, the public) are watching over their shoulder, do the authorities do their job.

Sometimes recording whats happening around us on mobile phones has a huge advantage. I doubt very much whether this event would have been taken seriously had the 10 year old not caught it all on camera.
Had it not been recorded the news media couldnt have spread it to a national audience....which then via social media has gone international.

Just a pity it took 2 years...2 years where the school has been allowed to carry on unhindered, albeit with a few extra checks, and 2 years where the idiot teachers who allowed this to happen were free to find employment with other vulnerable kids.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:32 pm

Syl wrote:Sometimes recording whats happening around us on mobile phones has a huge advantage. I doubt very much whether this event would have been taken seriously had the 10 year old not caught it all on camera.

Absolutely! Imagine what a boon these cell phone cameras have been to my profession. No more shaky witnesses. No more inferential arguments. No need for presumptions. Just show the video.

Much of law enforcement has been cleaned up too. Used to be, law enforcement would get the benefit of the doubt, deserved or not. Now, when the cops says do you believe me or your lyin' eyes, the jury can judge for themselves how much their eyes are 'lying'.

Take a look at the Illinois conviction of Jason van Dyke...

White Chicago cop convicted of murder in shooting of black teen

Jason Van Dyke found guilty of second-degree murder in the 2014 shooting of Laquan McDonald.

5 Oct 2018

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/white-chicago-cop-convicted-murder-shooting-black-teen-181005180016197.html

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:00 am

If the cop said he was walking towards him, and the video proved he was walking away, there can be no doubt that the cop was lying.
Some things are just black and white....no pun.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:37 am

Syl wrote:If the cop said he was walking towards him, and the video proved he was walking away, there can be no doubt that the cop was lying.
Some things are just black and white....no pun.

I know. But it's still one of those cases where the cop said, Don't believe what you see... He was arguing that there was another perspective, which cops often do. They are hoping to create the opening for the chance that a jury will be biased pro-cop.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Syl on Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:38 pm

Well thankfully the jury saw through his lies.
It could have been very different if no video had been available though.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:31 pm

Syl wrote:Well thankfully the jury saw through his lies.
It could have been very different if no video had been available though.

Correct. I am so pleased that this technological development came along. It negates the lyin' cop syndrome. Now, of course, we have to fight authorities and agencies that don't automatically release such evidence, or resist requests. Fortunately, we haven't seen much destruction of such videos...even southern authorities know better.

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Sometimes recording whats happening around us on mobile phones has a huge advantage. I doubt very much whether this event would have been taken seriously had the 10 year old not caught it all on camera.

Absolutely!  Imagine what a boon these cell phone cameras have been to my profession.  No more shaky witnesses.  No more inferential arguments.  No need for presumptions.  Just show the video.

Much of law enforcement has been cleaned up too.  Used to be, law enforcement would get the benefit of the doubt, deserved or not.  Now, when the cops says do you believe me or your lyin' eyes, the jury can judge for themselves how much their eyes are 'lying'.

Take a look at the Illinois conviction of Jason van Dyke...

White Chicago cop convicted of murder in shooting of black teen

Jason Van Dyke found guilty of second-degree murder in the 2014 shooting of Laquan McDonald.

5 Oct 2018

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/white-chicago-cop-convicted-murder-shooting-black-teen-181005180016197.html

I watched the footage and it does seem pretty clear. It's a pity the boy didn't stop walking in the middle of the road with a knife.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I watched the footage and it does seem pretty clear. It's a pity the boy didn't stop walking in the middle of the road with a knife.

He was probably high on PCP or sumpin'. He most certainly had to be subdued, but that didn't give the cop a license to kill him.

Anyway, it's a classic case where, heretofore, the cop would have told his lies on the stand, and walked away to kill again. Thank god for videos.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Raggamuffin on Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I watched the footage and it does seem pretty clear. It's a pity the boy didn't stop walking in the middle of the road with a knife.



He was probably high on PCP or sumpin'.  He most certainly had to be subdued, but that didn't give the cop a license to kill him.

Anyway, it's a classic case where, heretofore, the cop would have told his lies on the stand, and walked away to kill again.  Thank god for videos.

This is why it's so unwise to take that kind of drug. If a cop in the US tells you to stand still and drop the knife, you do it! I certainly would, not that I'd be walking around with a knife anyway.

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Re: Dog fighting, cock fighting, now child fighting..... organised by teachers.

Post by Original Quill on Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

He was probably high on PCP or sumpin'.  He most certainly had to be subdued, but that didn't give the cop a license to kill him.

Anyway, it's a classic case where, heretofore, the cop would have told his lies on the stand, and walked away to kill again.  Thank god for videos.

This is why it's so unwise to take that kind of drug. If a cop in the US tells you to stand still and drop the knife, you do it! I certainly would, not that I'd be walking around with a knife anyway.

What you are describing is more in the way of eastern Europe. In the US, if you are white, cops must be respectful...or they are out of a job. More likely, this happened because there are two laws in America, one for whites, one for blacks.

PCP? Walking around with guns? Or knives? If anything, whites do it more than blacks.

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